Author Topic: NFR Long lost family  (Read 1078 times)

Offline f321ffc

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Re: NFR Long lost family
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2020, 07:58:52 AM »
You've pushed the button on my passion.
As others have said, Ancestry seems to be the most user friendly. It has a quickly growing DNA section and has a lot of free how to videos plus they post videos from their yearly convention. I find  Family Search, which is sponsored by the Morman Church to be useful at times. They have a relationship with Ancestry  and they sometimes have data that Ancestry doesn't. Their library in Salt Lake City is massive.
To save yourself enormous amounts of time, limit your tree to first cousins. If you don't, you soon have thousands (literally) of distant cousins and in-laws. When I started, my tree grew to over 8000 people and barely into the fourth generation. I've since limited it to second cousins which is still too much, hence my recommendation.
Next, not sure what is available on the far side of the pond but two very valuable resources are a source for newspapers and one for grave sites. I use newspapers.com and Find a Grave. The latter is associated with Ancestry. There is another called Billion Graves. I haven't any idea as to what their resources are in England but I've found quite a bit of info on my father's people who came from your fair land. They are worth looking into.
Almost all genealogical sites will offer free trials. Try several before you put your money down. You will be overwhelmed with data so do one at a time.
Another sometimes excellent source are local genealogical societies. Nor just in your home city but any city where an ancestor may have lived. They can offer help with translations, reading the god awful handwriting you'll encounter and the never ending changing of names & spellings of localities, churches and the like. The winning army generally wasn't kind to the different religions, nationalities (ask the Germans from Russia, my mothers people) and traditions of the losers.
It is an addictive vocation but you'll run across many great and helpful people.

BTW, if any of you have info on the Scarboroughs from London and before that North Walsham, Norfolk, lets talk!

Thanks👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿

Offline flyingfish

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Re: NFR Long lost family
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2020, 08:07:39 AM »
I've just signed up to ancestry and and doing mine and my wife's trees. In a matter of days I've got back to late 18th century and a few little stories on the way. Its utterly addictive.  I'm stuck about how to go back further. Records seem to have dried up as far as ancestry is concerned - any hints on how you push on once you reach a generational roadblock?

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Re: NFR Long lost family
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2020, 08:27:28 AM »
I've just signed up to ancestry and and doing mine and my wife's trees. In a matter of days I've got back to late 18th century and a few little stories on the way. Its utterly addictive.  I'm stuck about how to go back further. Records seem to have dried up as far as ancestry is concerned - any hints on how you push on once you reach a generational roadblock?

It depends on the parish - some started keeping records earlier than others whilst some records have been lost even since that became compulsory. You may well find that it you wait a while Ancestry might offer some more green leaves, which is the easy way, or try their search, varying the terms if nothing pops up initially. It's also not unusual to find something on the search that doesn't pop up as a leaf.

Have you come across anyone else's tree that coincides yet? You'll soon see which are worth following and which are fanciful.


Offline flyingfish

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Re: NFR Long lost family
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2020, 10:05:11 AM »
I've just signed up to ancestry and and doing mine and my wife's trees. In a matter of days I've got back to late 18th century and a few little stories on the way. Its utterly addictive.  I'm stuck about how to go back further. Records seem to have dried up as far as ancestry is concerned - any hints on how you push on once you reach a generational roadblock?

It depends on the parish - some started keeping records earlier than others whilst some records have been lost even since that became compulsory. You may well find that it you wait a while Ancestry might offer some more green leaves, which is the easy way, or try their search, varying the terms if nothing pops up initially. It's also not unusual to find something on the search that doesn't pop up as a leaf.

Have you come across anyone else's tree that coincides yet? You'll soon see which are worth following and which are fanciful.

Hi yes, some of the other trees are of shall we say 'mixed' quality where people have obvious just added every hint in even if it doesn't make sense. So it sounds like the key then would be to identify the parish and search for that with appropriate names etc? Or at this point, do i need to start looking outside ancestry?

Offline sunburywhite

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Re: NFR Long lost family
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2020, 02:13:57 PM »
One tip that may help is back around 1700-1900 some mebers of the family often had their mothers maiden name as their middle name

Example
Mother Emma Weston
Son John Weston Smith

Offline YankeeJim

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Re: NFR Long lost family
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2020, 07:41:35 PM »
I've just signed up to ancestry and and doing mine and my wife's trees. In a matter of days I've got back to late 18th century and a few little stories on the way. Its utterly addictive.  I'm stuck about how to go back further. Records seem to have dried up as far as ancestry is concerned - any hints on how you push on once you reach a generational roadblock?

Are you using the hints? Click on the little leaf on the upper right.
Also, select extras on the tool bar and than go to the Academy. Sort through the videos to see what might be helpful. There are several that deal with road blocks.
If you have any people that you have added that you didn't know the surname of, be sure to leave it blank. If you don't, the computer will be searching for"Mary Unknown". Play with the search engine. Start with a broad search such as just the name. Than add locations, dates and nicknames that you are SURE of until the number of hints shrinks down to a manageable size. Don't rely on Ancestry's transcriptions. Look over the document yourself.
As an example, I had a roadblock at my great grandfather and just last week discovered that I had accepted the wrong woman as his wife. I found the name on a daughters census listing and had scanned quickly and inadvertently listed her husbands mother as hers. Once corrected, Ancestry found the right woman, four more children (great uncles and aunts) and by the time I had recorded it all, I added almost 40 people to my tree. I had lived with that blockage for something like ten years. Errors are common, go slow.
Also, if you can't find someone in Ancestry look in Find a Grave or other sites. People are often buried where they were born rather than where they died. Woman might be buried with a second husband. Its all detective work. Vary you searches as I mentioned above.


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Re: NFR Long lost family
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2020, 09:47:12 AM »
I've just signed up to ancestry and and doing mine and my wife's trees. In a matter of days I've got back to late 18th century and a few little stories on the way. Its utterly addictive.  I'm stuck about how to go back further. Records seem to have dried up as far as ancestry is concerned - any hints on how you push on once you reach a generational roadblock?

Are you using the hints? Click on the little leaf on the upper right.
Also, select extras on the tool bar and than go to the Academy. Sort through the videos to see what might be helpful. There are several that deal with road blocks.
If you have any people that you have added that you didn't know the surname of, be sure to leave it blank. If you don't, the computer will be searching for"Mary Unknown". Play with the search engine. Start with a broad search such as just the name. Than add locations, dates and nicknames that you are SURE of until the number of hints shrinks down to a manageable size. Don't rely on Ancestry's transcriptions. Look over the document yourself.
As an example, I had a roadblock at my great grandfather and just last week discovered that I had accepted the wrong woman as his wife. I found the name on a daughters census listing and had scanned quickly and inadvertently listed her husbands mother as hers. Once corrected, Ancestry found the right woman, four more children (great uncles and aunts) and by the time I had recorded it all, I added almost 40 people to my tree. I had lived with that blockage for something like ten years. Errors are common, go slow.
Also, if you can't find someone in Ancestry look in Find a Grave or other sites. People are often buried where they were born rather than where they died. Woman might be buried with a second husband. Its all detective work. Vary you searches as I mentioned above.

Good stuff from YJ.

The transposing of records is excellent on the whole, especially the old Tudor writing that I'd stand absolutely no chance with. They obviously used experts on that.

More recent records may not be quite so well done, so spelling mistakes arise through amateurish-mis-reading and if that's on the first letter of a surname that's seriously unhelpful - but with a little imagination you can sometimes get those breaks through that are so satisfying. Also note that spelling was pretty inconsistent until recently as many/most people were illiterate and on censuses they gave the information in their local accents to the census-taker who wrote down what he heard. From these mis-spellings you can imagine how the people spoke.

Offline YankeeJim

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Re: NFR Long lost family
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2020, 08:40:07 PM »
Yea, the language wasn't standardized until you lot gave it to us 'mericans. LOL
Spelling is a major issue. I find if you enlarge it as much as you can I've found it becomes more readable. Do a Google search and you can find sites that can help with it. They often exaggerated the first letter of a line/paragraph as if they were King James. LOL If you look for the letters of the word after the initial letter (?etter) you can often decode it.

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Re: NFR Long lost family
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2020, 09:37:00 AM »
Yea, the language wasn't standardized until you lot gave it to us 'mericans. LOL
Spelling is a major issue. I find if you enlarge it as much as you can I've found it becomes more readable. Do a Google search and you can find sites that can help with it. They often exaggerated the first letter of a line/paragraph as if they were King James. LOL If you look for the letters of the word after the initial letter (?etter) you can often decode it.

*standardised* LOL

I can't remember exact examples but if you can't find something that you think you should, try being a bit imaginative about how it could have been misread and you may be surprised at your success. A broad Ancestry search can work. Then, when looking at the document, you wonder how someone could have misread it.

Quite often happens with place-names when transcribed by someone (a mormon?) unfamiliar with UK geography.

My biggest regret is that the mormon records on the system, useful as they are, are just transcripts and it's not possible to view the originals which would have so much to give.


Offline flyingfish

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Re: NFR Long lost family
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2020, 01:13:23 PM »
I've just signed up to ancestry and and doing mine and my wife's trees. In a matter of days I've got back to late 18th century and a few little stories on the way. Its utterly addictive.  I'm stuck about how to go back further. Records seem to have dried up as far as ancestry is concerned - any hints on how you push on once you reach a generational roadblock?

Are you using the hints? Click on the little leaf on the upper right.
Also, select extras on the tool bar and than go to the Academy. Sort through the videos to see what might be helpful. There are several that deal with road blocks.
If you have any people that you have added that you didn't know the surname of, be sure to leave it blank. If you don't, the computer will be searching for"Mary Unknown". Play with the search engine. Start with a broad search such as just the name. Than add locations, dates and nicknames that you are SURE of until the number of hints shrinks down to a manageable size. Don't rely on Ancestry's transcriptions. Look over the document yourself.
As an example, I had a roadblock at my great grandfather and just last week discovered that I had accepted the wrong woman as his wife. I found the name on a daughters census listing and had scanned quickly and inadvertently listed her husbands mother as hers. Once corrected, Ancestry found the right woman, four more children (great uncles and aunts) and by the time I had recorded it all, I added almost 40 people to my tree. I had lived with that blockage for something like ten years. Errors are common, go slow.
Also, if you can't find someone in Ancestry look in Find a Grave or other sites. People are often buried where they were born rather than where they died. Woman might be buried with a second husband. Its all detective work. Vary you searches as I mentioned above.

Very helpful, thanks. I've also got access to thegenealogist through work (don't ask) so I've found stuff there that I didn't on ancestry and vice versa.

The more you find, the more ancestry joins the dots for you. I've found some incredible material, photos, stories and all sorts.

for those wanting to see if they have any wrong 'uns in the family then take a search of the entire old bailey transcript at oldbaileyonline.org. It's absolutely incredible. There was no compunction in hanging someone for the theft of a silk hankerchief.

And if you've picked up any addresses through the census, you can look them up on Booth's poverty maps which is a fascinating exercise, some of my family lived in addresses coloured black :'lowest class, vicious, semi criminal'.    https://booth.lse.ac.uk/map/14/-0.1174/51.5064/100/0 Some of those areas now have houses selling for millions!






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Re: NFR Long lost family
« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2020, 02:15:11 PM »
Interesting suggestions for sources, FF, thank you.

I had quite a few hauled up before the beak for poaching and another one was a smuggler who got banged up in Newgate. There was even a book written about it: "The Nightingale Scandal".

Offline jarv

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Re: NFR Long lost family
« Reply #31 on: May 14, 2020, 03:24:37 PM »
Thanks for starting this. I , like many here, am not young and recently started but got a bit frustrated with regards how to proceed. Some good posters offering advice. Thanks again.

I have 5 first cousins (not young) still living in Scotland but none have signed up for ancestry so does that mean there will be no information about them?

I did find on a tree, the name Robert Barclay, could be my mother's cousin but there are many of this name in Scotland. When confronted by this I was unsure how to proceed. Not knowing names doesn't help. Great grandmother (Wright), great grandfather (Jarvis), grandmother (McQueen) but no idea what their first names are. Any thoughts anyone.

I will use the many comments, advice on here to try again. Thanks again to all.



Offline flyingfish

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Re: NFR Long lost family
« Reply #32 on: May 14, 2020, 04:00:37 PM »
Thanks for starting this. I , like many here, am not young and recently started but got a bit frustrated with regards how to proceed. Some good posters offering advice. Thanks again.

I have 5 first cousins (not young) still living in Scotland but none have signed up for ancestry so does that mean there will be no information about them?

I did find on a tree, the name Robert Barclay, could be my mother's cousin but there are many of this name in Scotland. When confronted by this I was unsure how to proceed. Not knowing names doesn't help. Great grandmother (Wright), great grandfather (Jarvis), grandmother (McQueen) but no idea what their first names are. Any thoughts anyone.

I will use the many comments, advice on here to try again. Thanks again to all.

Essentially it becomes a process of cross referencing birth and death dates with names and in particular maiden names contained on the various documents. The more dates you find the more presents itself. Start by adding what you do know and try piecing it together

Eg you should find a wright and jarvis marriage certificate and then a birth certificate for their daughter revealing first name. Then find the daughter's spouse via another birth certificate. It all becomes quite intuitive. Good luck.

If you wanted I could have a look and try and kick things off for you if you want to dm me

Offline Logicalman

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Re: NFR Long lost family
« Reply #33 on: May 16, 2020, 04:03:05 PM »
I've just signed up to ancestry and and doing mine and my wife's trees. In a matter of days I've got back to late 18th century and a few little stories on the way. Its utterly addictive.  I'm stuck about how to go back further. Records seem to have dried up as far as ancestry is concerned - any hints on how you push on once you reach a generational roadblock?

All great advice given already, so do take note and try the suggestions out.

One further trick I have used is to take a sideways route to where I want to get to.
For example, the direct route is to go from child to mother/father to grandparents, but that can sometimes reach a roadblock. That can happen where names are anglicized (or for those in the US Americanized  :005:), either during a census or simply poor spelling, so I then look sideways, at siblings. Sometimes reviewing the sibling stories can give you information, indirectly, regarding your real target person, either by other family trees or personal stories. Make a note of anything you feel might be relevant and keep those for each person/branch, and you sometimes find two items match up enough to provide you a good hint to go forwards on. Remember, you can often add information to that person in the tree itself, or even attach an item to someone in your tree, for later review.
Additionally, as you have seen on this thread, do not hesitate to contact the admins of any tree, most of them will be relatives in some way, and apart from likely being pleased to hear from a related person they perhaps didn't know of, most are willing to share what they know to help others.

Offline Logicalman

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Re: NFR Long lost family
« Reply #34 on: May 16, 2020, 04:06:09 PM »
Thanks for starting this. I , like many here, am not young and recently started but got a bit frustrated with regards how to proceed. Some good posters offering advice. Thanks again.

I have 5 first cousins (not young) still living in Scotland but none have signed up for ancestry so does that mean there will be no information about them?

I did find on a tree, the name Robert Barclay, could be my mother's cousin but there are many of this name in Scotland. When confronted by this I was unsure how to proceed. Not knowing names doesn't help. Great grandmother (Wright), great grandfather (Jarvis), grandmother (McQueen) but no idea what their first names are. Any thoughts anyone.

I will use the many comments, advice on here to try again. Thanks again to all.

Not all mate. Their information will be contained in other trees, either being a direct ancestor of the tree owner, or by marriage, etc.


Offline YankeeJim

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Re: NFR Long lost family
« Reply #35 on: May 16, 2020, 07:16:17 PM »
I often use a back door. If you can't get past say your great grandfather. Search his wife and look for connections. Usually they all went to the same church and lived in the same area. Look at the church cemetery. Census data shows neighbors so search the neighbors and see who their neighbors were at the earlier date. Lots of times the transcription is wrong or the census taker used a nickname and that forever problem, the name may be spelled differently. Search different members of the same nuclear family. They might pop out where a sibling doesn't. In short, just keep digging.

Offline Holders

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Re: NFR Long lost family
« Reply #36 on: May 17, 2020, 11:02:15 AM »
Censuses are very revealing - they show children growing up doors away who'd later wed. Very commonly families were interlinked for generations or multiple brothers and sisters would wed across two families. Some would even get through a couple of sisters if the first one died in childbirth.   

My partner has  an ancestor who loved next door to William Dabinett who "discovered" the famous Somerset cider apple of that name. Sadly, there is no direct family link that we could find and he didn't have children.

There are so many interesting snippets to be unearthed.

Offline Fulham Gentleman

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Re: NFR Long lost family
« Reply #37 on: May 20, 2020, 04:30:28 PM »
Does anyone have guidance on how to search through Dutch records. I have found a branch of the family from the Groningen area. They appear out of nowhere (records wise) in 1814, and I have immigration records in 1880. I have found loads of documents from 1814-1880 with various people with that family name but none before or after in the Netherlands. I realise 1814 was a bit hectic in the Netherlands with everything going on the France, but does anyone have a suggestion on how navigate the Dutch records?


Offline sunburywhite

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Re: NFR Long lost family
« Reply #38 on: May 20, 2020, 04:35:32 PM »
Does anyone have guidance on how to search through Dutch records. I have found a branch of the family from the Groningen area. They appear out of nowhere (records wise) in 1814, and I have immigration records in 1880. I have found loads of documents from 1814-1880 with various people with that family name but none before or after in the Netherlands. I realise 1814 was a bit hectic in the Netherlands with everything going on the France, but does anyone have a suggestion on how navigate the Dutch records?

If you pay the full monty there are Dutch records available (as well as American, Australian etc)

Offline mrmicawbers

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Re: NFR Long lost family
« Reply #39 on: May 20, 2020, 07:37:20 PM »
My Missus bought me a DNA kit from ancestry which was a lovely gift for my 60th Birthday.She is from Denmark and as it turned out I was 15% Viking which was a surprise and was fun to tell everyone at our Wedding 6 months after.Haven't done the family tree yet in case were related lol.Will get round to it eventually hopefully. Got an email from Australia saying this lady was my first cousin but didn't recognise the name.She was using her married name but first cousins we were.The only problem I can see if someone gets in touch and tells you your their father.Hasn't happened yet.