Rumour: Betts tests positive

[Fulham1959]

I had an idea.

Forget this season but start next season with Barnsley (bottom) on zero points and Leeds (top) on 37 points, being their margin over Barnsley.  Fulham would start with 30 points, and so on.

Then play next season's 46 games as normal, making an 83 game combined season.  I guess you would apply the same to goal difference - Barnsley to start with -20, Leeds with +26, etc.

Just a thought - don't shoot me.

[kiwian]

BBC just reported, 2 Fulham players have it. No names due to confidentiality.

So why are other clubs making players' names public?

[The Rational Fan]

If we continue with this daft notion IMO of completing the season, then Covid 19 might end up picking the team if infections get any greater. If we were playing next week, you would be praying the Fulham 2 were not Mitro & Hector.

Well, an outbreak at a club could be a lot worse than two. One asymptomatic infected person at church in Butte County on Mother's Day in California (10th May 2020) managed to infect 180 people in one church service, so I am certain an infected football player that has a false negative before the game is capable of infecting every outfield player on the field during the game. The spread with an hour and a half football game is likely to be comparable to an hour church service.

An outbreak that infects two teams of 13 players in each team would ruin both team's seasons, as the next few games would be a writeoff and its unlikely everyone would return by playoffs. If a major outbreak with 14 players per team sick happens from Leeds vs Fulham game, it virtually ends both teams chance of automatic promotion and neither probably be the best team of the playoffs even if they made it. In addition, if Leeds and Fulham are out sick, then teams like Cardiff (that if we are sick could get six points against Leeds and Fulham) has a massive advantage over teams like Preston and Bristol that played our full strethgen teams.

[JoelH5]

If we continue with this daft notion IMO of completing the season, then Covid 19 might end up picking the team if infections get any greater. If we were playing next week, you would be praying the Fulham 2 were not Mitro & Hector.

Well, an outbreak at a club could be a lot worse than two. One asymptomatic infected person at church in Butte County on Mother's Day in California (10th May 2020) managed to infect 180 people in one church service, so I am certain an infected football player that has a false negative before the game is capable of infecting every outfield player on the field during the game. The spread with an hour and a half football game is likely to be comparable to an hour church service.

An outbreak that infects two teams of 13 players in each team would ruin both team's seasons, as the next few games would be a writeoff and its unlikely everyone would return by playoffs. If a major outbreak with 14 players per team sick happens from Leeds vs Fulham game, it virtually ends both teams chance of automatic promotion and neither probably be the best team of the playoffs even if they made it. In addition, if Leeds and Fulham are out sick, then teams like Cardiff (that if we are sick could get six points against Leeds and Fulham) has a massive advantage over teams like Preston and Bristol that played our full strethgen teams.

You make a great point. It clearly shows the decision to restart is entirely financially driven. The season should have just been stopped. Top 3 up, top 3 down.

[RaySmith]

Life has to go on -  we can't live in perpetual lockdown.

I actually see little risk  of  a large  percentage of players  being unable to play because they've contracted  the virus, anyway, and this has  been shown by the very small  percentage of players  so far tested who  have tested positive.

They will be a lot less at risk than most people, who can catch it going shopping, to the park, or going to work.

And if they do get it, they will immediately know  and be able to self isolate, with medical supervision - unlike most of us, who  will find it hard to discover if we've got it or not.

I don't think it's just about money, but about getting back to normal as much as possible, with so many people energised and  feeling positive with the resumption of football.

Football returning seems the safest of al the measures  the govt is now taking  to  ease the lockdown.

[Statto]

Well, an outbreak at a club could be a lot worse than two. One asymptomatic infected person at church in Butte County on Mother's Day in California (10th May 2020) managed to infect 180 people in one church service, so I am certain an infected football player that has a false negative before the game is capable of infecting every outfield player on the field during the game. The spread with an hour and a half football game is likely to be comparable to an hour church service.

An outbreak that infects two teams of 13 players in each team would ruin both team's seasons, as the next few games would be a writeoff and its unlikely everyone would return by playoffs. If a major outbreak with 14 players per team sick happens from Leeds vs Fulham game, it virtually ends both teams chance of automatic promotion and neither probably be the best team of the playoffs even if they made it. In addition, if Leeds and Fulham are out sick, then teams like Cardiff (that if we are sick could get six points against Leeds and Fulham) has a massive advantage over teams like Preston and Bristol that played our full strethgen teams.

A large outbreak among footballers hasn't happened yet, and based on the way it's panning out for the Bundesliga  experience, seems unlikely.

If it does happen, the EFL can take action at that stage, most likely by postponing matches, or just suspending the season again.

The current attempt to finish the season has a good chance of success, and if it fails, we'll be no worse off than we are now, just a bit closer to having a finished season, and a better understanding of what needs to be done to get professional football back.

[Montague]

If we continue with this daft notion IMO of completing the season, then Covid 19 might end up picking the team if infections get any greater. If we were playing next week, you would be praying the Fulham 2 were not Mitro & Hector.

Well, an outbreak at a club could be a lot worse than two. One asymptomatic infected person at church in Butte County on Mother's Day in California (10th May 2020) managed to infect 180 people in one church service, so I am certain an infected football player that has a false negative before the game is capable of infecting every outfield player on the field during the game. The spread with an hour and a half football game is likely to be comparable to an hour church service.

An outbreak that infects two teams of 13 players in each team would ruin both team's seasons, as the next few games would be a writeoff and its unlikely everyone would return by playoffs. If a major outbreak with 14 players per team sick happens from Leeds vs Fulham game, it virtually ends both teams chance of automatic promotion and neither probably be the best team of the playoffs even if they made it. In addition, if Leeds and Fulham are out sick, then teams like Cardiff (that if we are sick could get six points against Leeds and Fulham) has a massive advantage over teams like Preston and Bristol that played our full strethgen teams.

You make a great point. It clearly shows the decision to restart is entirely financially driven. The season should have just been stopped. Top 3 up, top 3 down.

Are the club also testing to see if any of the players have already had the virus?

I'm sure I recall around Christmas / January a flu like virus going around the club laying quite a few of the players off - I think lots of people at Motspur Park were also laid low - according to some reports in France it looks like the virus was in their country undetected since early December.

If the players have already had it maybe they might also now have some immunity.

[mrmicawbers]

If we continue with this daft notion IMO of completing the season, then Covid 19 might end up picking the team if infections get any greater. If we were playing next week, you would be praying the Fulham 2 were not Mitro & Hector.

Well, an outbreak at a club could be a lot worse than two. One asymptomatic infected person at church in Butte County on Mother's Day in California (10th May 2020) managed to infect 180 people in one church service, so I am certain an infected football player that has a false negative before the game is capable of infecting every outfield player on the field during the game. The spread with an hour and a half football game is likely to be comparable to an hour church service.

An outbreak that infects two teams of 13 players in each team would ruin both team's seasons, as the next few games would be a writeoff and its unlikely everyone would return by playoffs. If a major outbreak with 14 players per team sick happens from Leeds vs Fulham game, it virtually ends both teams chance of automatic promotion and neither probably be the best team of the playoffs even if they made it. In addition, if Leeds and Fulham are out sick, then teams like Cardiff (that if we are sick could get six points against Leeds and Fulham) has a massive advantage over teams like Preston and Bristol that played our full strethgen teams.

You make a great point. It clearly shows the decision to restart is entirely financially driven. The season should have just been stopped. Top 3 up, top 3 down.

Are the club also testing to see if any of the players have already had the virus?

I'm sure I recall around Christmas / January a flu like virus going around the club laying quite a few of the players off - I think lots of people at Motspur Park were also laid low - according to some reports in France it looks like the virus was in their country undetected since early December.

If the players have already had it maybe they might also now have some immunity.

I believe they have a test for this now,so you would like to think so.

[FFCAli]

Well, an outbreak at a club could be a lot worse than two. One asymptomatic infected person at church in Butte County on Mother's Day in California (10th May 2020) managed to infect 180 people in one church service, so I am certain an infected football player that has a false negative before the game is capable of infecting every outfield player on the field during the game. The spread with an hour and a half football game is likely to be comparable to an hour church service.

An hour and a half football game on a large pitch in the open air cannot possibly be compared to an hour church service in a much smaller enclosed building.  You're far less likely to catch it out of doors.  The risk is more in the changing rooms.

[Arthur]

An outbreak that infects two teams of 13 players in each team would ruin both team's seasons, as the next few games would be a writeoff and its unlikely everyone would return by playoffs. If a major outbreak with 14 players per team sick happens from Leeds vs Fulham game, it virtually ends both teams chance of automatic promotion and neither probably be the best team of the playoffs even if they made it. In addition, if Leeds and Fulham are out sick, then teams like Cardiff (that if we are sick could get six points against Leeds and Fulham) has a massive advantage over teams like Preston and Bristol that played our full strethgen teams.

May I ask what you think will happen if we don't attempt to finish the season? Do you hope that we will be promoted automatically as the third-placed team? I think there's almost no chance that this would happen owing to the number of P.L. clubs who would resist relegation on the basis of any non-playing method. Even if a scenario such as you outline scuppers our hopes and we have to go again in September as a Championship club, how would we be worse off than were the season to end here and now?

[Jimsbeerbelly]

EFL have already said, that is the league is null and void, and it goes to PPG, then only the top 2 will go up. The 3rd place team will fight it out in a play-off.

My argument with this, is if it's deemed unsafe to kick another ball in a normal league game, then, why is it safe to kick a ball in a playoff match? - but hey-ho.

Whatever happens, Fulham will not be sent up in 3rd with Leeds and WBA, I'd also lay my house on it, so, the best course of action is that season is finished, if we want any chance of the autos.

Everyone knows it's our destiny to be knocked out by, or, to lose to Brentford in the Playoffs anyway.

[The Rational Fan]

An outbreak that infects two teams of 13 players in each team would ruin both team's seasons, as the next few games would be a writeoff and its unlikely everyone would return by playoffs. If a major outbreak with 14 players per team sick happens from Leeds vs Fulham game, it virtually ends both teams chance of automatic promotion and neither probably be the best team of the playoffs even if they made it. In addition, if Leeds and Fulham are out sick, then teams like Cardiff (that if we are sick could get six points against Leeds and Fulham) has a massive advantage over teams like Preston and Bristol that played our full strethgen teams.

May I ask what you think will happen if we don't attempt to finish the season? Do you hope that we will be promoted automatically as the third-placed team? I think there's almost no chance that this would happen owing to the number of P.L. clubs who would resist relegation on the basis of any non-playing method. Even if a scenario such as you outline scuppers our hopes and we have to go again in September as a Championship club, how would we be worse off than were the season to end here and now?

It may be in Fulham's best interest to restart the season and we may be in the Championship next season if we stop now, but I think restarting the season could produce an unfair result like Leeds and WBA not getting promoted due to an outbreak there. I don't support restarting the season

If we stop now:
Scenario 1: If Leeds and WBA get promoted into a 22 team premier league, then we will probably be fighting for one automatic promotion place and one playoff place with Brentford, Forest, Cardiff, Huddersfield, Stoke and Bristol frankly I like our chances.

Scenario 2: If Leeds, WBA, and Brentford get promoted with Norwich, Aston Villa and Bournemouth get relegated with two automatic promotion places then I still like our chances.

Scenario 3: Leeds, WBA, and Fulham get promoted, which is perfect especially if the wrong teams like Everton get relegated.

If we don't stop now:
We could be a lot worse off if the wrong teams get promoted and the wrong teams get relegated. Fulham and Leeds have outbreaks, so WBA, Brentford, and Preston get promoted, while Everton and West Ham have outbreaks so get relegated. We enter the last season of parachute payments with Everton, West Ham, Leeds, Fulham and Forest in the Championship.

The other scenarios is individual players and individual teams refuse to play or have an outbreak. QPR don't want to play, what if instead they play but lose every game, with Middlesbrough, Wigan, Charlton, Luton, and Barnsley getting a free three points ahead in the league but Hull doesn't.

Restarting the season could turn into a farce, the season restart will have unexpected events and we cannot void the season then.

[Sting of the North]

An outbreak that infects two teams of 13 players in each team would ruin both team's seasons, as the next few games would be a writeoff and its unlikely everyone would return by playoffs. If a major outbreak with 14 players per team sick happens from Leeds vs Fulham game, it virtually ends both teams chance of automatic promotion and neither probably be the best team of the playoffs even if they made it. In addition, if Leeds and Fulham are out sick, then teams like Cardiff (that if we are sick could get six points against Leeds and Fulham) has a massive advantage over teams like Preston and Bristol that played our full strethgen teams.

May I ask what you think will happen if we don't attempt to finish the season? Do you hope that we will be promoted automatically as the third-placed team? I think there's almost no chance that this would happen owing to the number of P.L. clubs who would resist relegation on the basis of any non-playing method. Even if a scenario such as you outline scuppers our hopes and we have to go again in September as a Championship club, how would we be worse off than were the season to end here and now?

It may be in Fulham's best interest to restart the season and we may be in the Championship next season if we stop now, but I think restarting the season could produce an unfair result like Leeds and WBA not getting promoted due to an outbreak there. I don't support restarting the season

If we stop now:
Scenario 1: If Leeds and WBA get promoted into a 22 team premier league, then we will probably be fighting for one automatic promotion place and one playoff place with Brentford, Forest, Cardiff, Huddersfield, Stoke and Bristol frankly I like our chances.

Scenario 2: If Leeds, WBA, and Brentford get promoted with Norwich, Aston Villa and Bournemouth get relegated with two automatic promotion places then I still like our chances.

Scenario 3: Leeds, WBA, and Fulham get promoted, which is perfect especially if the wrong teams like Everton get relegated.

If we don't stop now:
We could be a lot worse off if the wrong teams get promoted and the wrong teams get relegated. Fulham and Leeds have outbreaks, so WBA, Brentford, and Preston get promoted, while Everton and West Ham have outbreaks so get relegated. We enter the last season of parachute payments with Everton, West Ham, Leeds, Fulham and Forest in the Championship.

The other scenarios is individual players and individual teams refuse to play or have an outbreak. QPR don't want to play, what if instead they play but lose every game, with Middlesbrough, Wigan, Charlton, Luton, and Barnsley getting a free three points ahead in the league but Hull doesn't.

Restarting the season could turn into a farce, the season restart will have unexpected events and we cannot void the season then.

But this looks like entirely fabricated scenarios to prove your point, when in reality a thousand different scenarios are at least equally likely (almost like any season, where a lot of unforeseen events may happen to one team or another, including illnesses and injuries).

Also, your last point that we cannot void the season if we first try to restart it is of course entirely untrue. The authorities and/or the EFL can change their decision at any time if deemed appropriate given the (exceptional) circumstances.

Personally I also don't like the idea of trying to base my opinion on what would be the theoretical best outcome for FFC, since the only reasons to not try to finish the season should be

i) the safety of the players and staff and others involved, and

ii) the integrity of the league, meaning that if the virus is obviously causing an injustice that is greater than the injustice of voiding the season (which would in itself obviously be extremely unfair to many teams, and fair to no team), then it should be voided. The second alternative would likely apply if teams end up missing big chunks of their squads due to the virus, meaning that the season would "turn into a farce". Early indications from the leagues that have actually restarted suggests that this is not the case though. Even though it is early days, I like those signs more than entirely made up scenarios.

[Statto]

Scenario 1: If Leeds and WBA get promoted into a 22 team premier league, then we will probably be fighting for one automatic promotion place and one playoff place with Brentford, Forest, Cardiff, Huddersfield, Stoke and Bristol frankly I like our chances.

Scenario 2: If Leeds, WBA, and Brentford get promoted with Norwich, Aston Villa and Bournemouth get relegated with two automatic promotion places then I still like our chances.

When do you see next season actually being played in these scenarios?

I ask because the concerns you have about resuming this season are going to exist for a loooooong time.

Even in a best case scenario where a vaccine is found in late 2020, there will initially only be enough for the elderly and vulnerable. Which is great, because it means people will stop dying from this disease, but healthy young people, including footballers, will still be catching it and experiencing the milder symptoms they do now. The stage at which the entire global population is vaccinated, if that even occurs, is how far down the line? Say 2 years in a best case scanario?

By then, what will have happened to our squad? Will Fulham even exist, having gone without revenue for so long? Will Mitrovic just stay at Fulham, and keep himself fit, without playing at all and potentially without even getting a salary, whilst football resumes in other leagues around the world? Will Ream and Mcdonald even still be playing, or will they have retired?

How can you "like our chances" when you've no idea what Fulham, or even English professional football, would look like after such a long suspension?

[Arthur]

It may be in Fulham's best interest to restart the season and we may be in the Championship next season if we stop now, but I think restarting the season could produce an unfair result like Leeds and WBA not getting promoted due to an outbreak there. I don't support restarting the season

Thank you for your reply.

As two other forum members have already commented along similar lines to my views on the matter, I shall limit myself to two observations with regard to your main reason (above) for not restarting the season:

i) No club in the Championship has made more noise about its willingness to restart the season than Leeds. Why does it bother you that it could become the victim of an unfair outcome?

ii) A possible scenario that you haven't mentioned, were the season to end now, is that the Premier League clubs decide that not only will there be no relegation but there shall be no promotion either. Clearly, you would deem it unfair for this season to be declared null and void. If it doesn't restart, however, I reckon this outcome has at least as much a chance of happening as your scenario involving Leeds missing out on promotion due to its team being ravaged by coronavirus. (I imagine 'no promotion' is Leeds' worry also, and the reason why the club is so committed to the remaining fixtures being played.)

[WhiteJC]

will the original 2 be back in training now? I'm assuming they had to self-isolate for 7 days