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Brentford, watkins and benrahma

Started by ALG01, July 12, 2020, 10:45:44 AM

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ALG01

Despite any issues with how we percieve Brentford (and I for one see them in the same light as any other team with no animosity) they have done brilliantly. they have a plan as to how they go about things and they have brought it all together this season. They are to be admired.

what I was wondering is would TK have identified Benrahma and watkins as targets?
I suspect they would have been right off his radar. I suspect vardy would have passed him by too. I do not think we would have got Finan or houghton or Ivor or mitchell based on the TK model.

It is a great pity as there must be other gems we are missing out on.

And if anyone is thinking this is just another dig at the very nice man that is DoF, the fact remains he is effectively an amateur. This morning looking again at the laegue table I couldn't help but think what could have been if we had a proper balanced squad. as it is parker is forced to play exceptionally dull football to try and grind out results. watching brentford yesterday was a breath of fresh air, doing it on smaller budget but having proper people in place. we just have to aspire to be way better.

The play offs  is not success for us.

bog

100% in agreement. There must be another Vardy somewhere.

It always rankles with me that Cyrille Regis was at Hayes in 1976/7 and we never heard about him and he ended up in the Midlands with WBA.  Sometimes a club is only as good as it's scouting system.   

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ALG01

If I remeber correctly tony book was 23 when he joined man city and they went on to be the champoions with him as captain.

there are loads of players in lower leagues or discarded too soon wiaiting for a second chance. it just takes a little imagination.

I believe brentford try to pick up ex prem accademy players that have been discarded. I am not sure how true that is but it certainly a good idea.


f321ffc

Living down here in Devon I heard loads about Watkins when he was at Exeter, spoke to an Exeter fan in my local just after he went to Brentford and he was surprised that a bigger club didn't take a chance, he said Fulham should have signed him, 😂hindsight ehhh.
On a lighter note before lockdown Ollie Watkins was often seen out and about in Torquay, my son is on talking terms with him, they have had a £100 charity bet for top scorer, neck and neck at the moment.
CCOME ON MITRO⚽️⚽️⚽️
Growing old is mandatory
Growing up is optional

Statto

#4
Watkins had just won EFL young player of the year when they signed him. The lower English leagues aren't a field we've generally recruited from, but Watkins was hardly a hidden gem. I expect most scouts in the country had him on their watchlist.

Benrahma was signed from Nice, like Seri and MLM. We also signed Kamara, Anguissa and Ayite from the French league. So that one was actually an archetypal Tony Khan signing.

ALG01

Quote from: Statto on July 12, 2020, 11:01:57 AM
Watkins had just won EFL young player of the year when they signed him. The lower English leagues aren't a field we've generally recruited from, but Watkins was hardly a hidden gem. I expect most scouts in the country had him on their watchlist.

Benrahma was signed from Nice, like Seri and MLM. We also signed Kamara, Anguissa and Ayite from the French league. So that one was actually an archetypal Tony Khan signing.

except we did not get either of these.
benrahma is a brilliant footballer unlike the ones we got and watkins was signed by a smaller club and not a bigger one so I suspect was not on our radar.


Statto

#6
Quote from: ALG01 on July 12, 2020, 11:08:48 AM
Quote from: Statto on July 12, 2020, 11:01:57 AM
Watkins had just won EFL young player of the year when they signed him. The lower English leagues aren't a field we've generally recruited from, but Watkins was hardly a hidden gem. I expect most scouts in the country had him on their watchlist.

Benrahma was signed from Nice, like Seri and MLM. We also signed Kamara, Anguissa and Ayite from the French league. So that one was actually an archetypal Tony Khan signing.

except we did not get either of these.
benrahma is a brilliant footballer unlike the ones we got and watkins was signed by a smaller club and not a bigger one so I suspect was not on our radar.

Ayite was as good as Benrahma, and I've no reason to believe Benrahma is any better than Kamara. So I think Ayite and Kamara are very comparable signings, for similar fees.

I'm not sure what you're saying about Watkins. As I say, he'd have been on everyone's radar, even computer game managers sitting at home in their armchairs/bedrooms. We've plainly chosen not to recruit from the English lower leagues, and I agree that decision is questionable, but it's not as if Brentford 'found' Watkins because they've a better scouting system than us, or anyone else for that matter.

ByTheRiver

It's worth keeping in mind that it's not as straight forward as that and teams with far more resources are unable to 'unearth these gems'. Think of Man Utd for example, wasted huge HUGE sums of money in the last five or so years, enormous scouting network and so on, and they haven't managed it. Therir only bright lights are academy players or stars brought in at huge sums (even then they've not always performed...).

Vardy and Leicester are a good example actually. Clubs far bigger and richer than us would love to unearth 'the next Vardy' or a 'Kante' (every club in the world would love a Kante at 4m or whatever they paid) or 'a Mahrez'. It doesn't always work out. Cisse and AK could have been those players and Mahrez and Kante flopped in another world. There are a lot of variables involved otherwise clubs like Utd would scoop all of these gems up. The fact they don't suggests there is a lot of intangible factors involved too.

I think we do have an eye on that market, previously a little too much maybe (lots of cheap French or Spanish league players coming in and not fitting in the past). The lower English leagues not so much but how often does it work out? Vardy and Ian Wright - I'm sure there's others but it's really not a long list. So clearly more often than not it doesn't quite work out and they make a massive step up.

bog

Quote from: ALG01 on July 12, 2020, 10:55:17 AM
If I remeber correctly tony book was 23 when he joined man city and they went on to be the champoions with him as captain.

there are loads of players in lower leagues or discarded too soon wiaiting for a second chance. it just takes a little imagination.

I believe brentford try to pick up ex prem accademy players that have been discarded. I am not sure how true that is but it certainly a good idea.

I think you will find he was 32!


ALG01

Quote from: Statto on July 12, 2020, 11:15:37 AM
Quote from: ALG01 on July 12, 2020, 11:08:48 AM
Quote from: Statto on July 12, 2020, 11:01:57 AM
Watkins had just won EFL young player of the year when they signed him. The lower English leagues aren't a field we've generally recruited from, but Watkins was hardly a hidden gem. I expect most scouts in the country had him on their watchlist.

Benrahma was signed from Nice, like Seri and MLM. We also signed Kamara, Anguissa and Ayite from the French league. So that one was actually an archetypal Tony Khan signing.

except we did not get either of these.
benrahma is a brilliant footballer unlike the ones we got and watkins was signed by a smaller club and not a bigger one so I suspect was not on our radar.

Ayite was as good as Benrahma, and I've no reason to believe Benrahma is any better than Kamara. So I think Ayite and Kamara are very comparable signings, for similar fees.

I'm not sure what you're saying about Watkins. As I say, he'd have been on everyone's radar, even computer game managers sitting at home in their armchairs/bedrooms. We've plainly chosen not to recruit from the English lower leagues, and I agree that decision is questionable, but it's not as if Brentford 'found' Watkins because they've a better scouting system than us, or anyone else for that matter.

I understand your point completely. However i was not an ayite fan at all, lovely bloke but not my idea and when it came to it slav left him ouut of the biggest games. AK is a mixed bag and for the time he has been with us largely has been very un impressive although I do feel this season he has finally come good. benrahma is a far more consistent and better class performer IMO and I could not see brentford putting him on the bench at any tme soon, ayite and AK are and were never consistent.

watkins, may have been known but was never going to come to fulham because TK probably didn't know about him but even if he did, he was not signing such a player. we all know that. Pound gofor pound there squad is much better assmebled and looks better balanced.

ALG01

Quote from: bog on July 12, 2020, 11:44:37 AM
Quote from: ALG01 on July 12, 2020, 10:55:17 AM
If I remeber correctly tony book was 23 when he joined man city and they went on to be the champoions with him as captain.

there are loads of players in lower leagues or discarded too soon wiaiting for a second chance. it just takes a little imagination.

I believe brentford try to pick up ex prem accademy players that have been discarded. I am not sure how true that is but it certainly a good idea.

I think you will find he was 32!

I could say that was a bit of dyslexia to protect my reputation but in fact I think it was age letting me down!!! Yes of course he was in his thirties making it even more extraordinary. you just do not see that sort of imagination in modern football, let alone our club.

ALG01

Quote from: ByTheRiver on July 12, 2020, 11:17:02 AM
It's worth keeping in mind that it's not as straight forward as that and teams with far more resources are unable to 'unearth these gems'. Think of Man Utd for example, wasted huge HUGE sums of money in the last five or so years, enormous scouting network and so on, and they haven't managed it. Therir only bright lights are academy players or stars brought in at huge sums (even then they've not always performed...).

Vardy and Leicester are a good example actually. Clubs far bigger and richer than us would love to unearth 'the next Vardy' or a 'Kante' (every club in the world would love a Kante at 4m or whatever they paid) or 'a Mahrez'. It doesn't always work out. Cisse and AK could have been those players and Mahrez and Kante flopped in another world. There are a lot of variables involved otherwise clubs like Utd would scoop all of these gems up. The fact they don't suggests there is a lot of intangible factors involved too.

I think we do have an eye on that market, previously a little too much maybe (lots of cheap French or Spanish league players coming in and not fitting in the past). The lower English leagues not so much but how often does it work out? Vardy and Ian Wright - I'm sure there's others but it's really not a long list. So clearly more often than not it doesn't quite work out and they make a massive step up.

I agree it isn't quite a straightforward as that. BUT, we do not seem to even try. keegan picked up unusual players needing a chance or second chance. tigana also got players that in some cases had been written off, saha for instance was pulling up any daisies at metz but he recognised him as a top potential.

to be fair i probably would not have gone for coleman because of his achiles injury that hamppered him at blackburn. however that worked well because we had top people in those days that knew what they were doing.

I am just very despondant because I think with a little more inspired recruitment policy we would could have been flying in any of the last few seasons, and this one and I know where our real problem is .


Statto

Quote from: ALG01 on July 12, 2020, 12:34:06 PM
when it came to it slav left [Ayite] ouut of the biggest games

He was injury prone but he was in Jokanovic's best XI when fit.

FFC1987

'Ayite was as good as Benrahma.' How did you come to that conclusion!?

Statto

Quote from: FFC1987 on July 12, 2020, 12:46:16 PM
'Ayite was as good as Benrahma.' How did you come to that conclusion!?

Their rate of goals and assists per minute in their best seasons


sunburywhite

Brentford are in the form and on the type of run that we had under Slav and will be very hard to stop
Remember you are braver than you believe, stronger than you seem, and smarter than you think.
I will be as good as I can be and when I cross the finishing line I will see what it got me

FFC1987

Quote from: Statto on July 12, 2020, 12:47:34 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on July 12, 2020, 12:46:16 PM
'Ayite was as good as Benrahma.' How did you come to that conclusion!?

Their rate of goals and assists per minute in their best seasons

Where would I see that? Be interested to see them in comparison actually.

I think Benrahma is a significantly better player than Ayite (who I really rate btw) and will play a much higher standard than him.

bobby01

Sorry alg, no way can I agree with "Parker is forced to play dull football and grind out results with this squad."
Watching the ups and downs since 1958, wouldn't have it any other way, what a roller coaster of a club.


FFC1987

I just had a look at whoscored.com and I appreciate the mins on the pitch might paint a different picture, Ayite has never had a season as good as Benrahmas overall when you look at total involvement in goals, assists and key passes. He did have less game time but still. There has to be a point where a player with a good goal to game ratio can't be compared to a guy who has a lower ratio but still scored 3 times as many goals as him. (or more)

Statto

Quote from: FFC1987 on July 12, 2020, 12:49:52 PM
Quote from: Statto on July 12, 2020, 12:47:34 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on July 12, 2020, 12:46:16 PM
'Ayite was as good as Benrahma.' How did you come to that conclusion!?

Their rate of goals and assists per minute in their best seasons

Where would I see that? Be interested to see them in comparison actually.

I think Benrahma is a significantly better player than Ayite (who I really rate btw) and will play a much higher standard than him.

Benrahma this season - 16 goals, 9 assists from 3,277 minutes, 36 starts

Ayite 16/17 - 9 goals, 9 assists from 1,978 minutes, 22 starts

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