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Brentford, watkins and benrahma

Started by ALG01, July 12, 2020, 10:45:44 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

rebel

Fulham could have signed Jamie Vardy, that's in the Martin Jol era, the transfer fee would have been £1m. There are others. Some of are signings are bizarre,  like recently we've been short up front. We sign a lot of midfielders who we hope will fill the gap up front if needed. We've got more Swiss Army Knives then a shop selling Swiss Army Knives. 

Statto

#41
Quote from: FulhamStu on July 13, 2020, 08:50:02 AM
Mo threw money at Fulham in the lower leagues, bought players much better than the division and Fulham had great fun.   This was a strategy that some people criticised at the time, but it worked.

The Khans are investing very big into Craven Cottage, Motspur Park, and the Academy.  They also spend a lot of money on the first team squad, some of it well, a lot of it, not so well.  Why do they spend as they do?  I would suggest there are 2 main reasons.  1) They can afford it.  2) They are in it for the long term.   

Not sure who criticised MAF's strategy, or how anyone could, because he built long-term infrastructure as well as a fantastic team. Our academy is essentially his creation and legacy.

FulhamStu

Quote from: Statto on July 13, 2020, 09:27:32 AM
Quote from: FulhamStu on July 13, 2020, 08:50:02 AM
Mo threw money at Fulham in the lower leagues, bought players much better than the division and Fulham had great fun.   This was a strategy that some people criticised at the time, but it worked.

The Khans are investing very big into Craven Cottage, Motspur Park, and the Academy.  They also spend a lot of money on the first team squad, some of it well, a lot of it, not so well.  Why do they spend as they do?  I would suggest there are 2 main reasons.  1) They can afford it.  2) They are in it for the long term.   

Not sure who criticised MAF's strategy, or how anyone could, because he built long-term infrastructure as well as a fantastic team. Our academy is essentially his creation and legacy.

One guy I stood next too on the Hammersmith Terrace refused to attend games after we signed Pesch as he said he did not want to attend due to too much money being spent.  I always thought it was a very odd response and agree this was not what most Fulham fans thought, however most forums like this are not representative of the average fan, more of people who have time and want to chew the fat !   My point was not to criticise Mo, more to remind people that he bought success, we only got to the Premier League because we out spent more than everyone else, oh and Tigana was an amazing coach but would he or Keegan have gone to a club of our size if we did not have lots of money...


Bassey the warrior

Really rate them, great style of play. Both of the players you mentioned look brilliant. I'd like to see us bring in some young talent, we've signed a lot late twenties players recently.

The Rational Fan

#44
Quote from: FulhamStu on July 13, 2020, 10:10:32 AM
Quote from: Statto on July 13, 2020, 09:27:32 AM
Quote from: FulhamStu on July 13, 2020, 08:50:02 AM
Mo threw money at Fulham in the lower leagues, bought players much better than the division and Fulham had great fun.   This was a strategy that some people criticised at the time, but it worked.

The Khans are investing very big into Craven Cottage, Motspur Park, and the Academy.  They also spend a lot of money on the first team squad, some of it well, a lot of it, not so well.  Why do they spend as they do?  I would suggest there are 2 main reasons.  1) They can afford it.  2) They are in it for the long term.   

Not sure who criticised MAF's strategy, or how anyone could, because he built long-term infrastructure as well as a fantastic team. Our academy is essentially his creation and legacy.

One guy I stood next too on the Hammersmith Terrace refused to attend games after we signed Pesch as he said he did not want to attend due to too much money being spent.  I always thought it was a very odd response and agree this was not what most Fulham fans thought, however most forums like this are not representative of the average fan, more of people who have time and want to chew the fat !   My point was not to criticise Mo, more to remind people that he bought success, we only got to the Premier League because we out spent more than everyone else, oh and Tigana was an amazing coach but would he or Keegan have gone to a club of our size if we did not have lots of money...

As a fan, the MAF era was great he spent such an insane amount of money relative to revenue, but it terms of spending money on players wisely, if you actually look through the results getting 26 points in 2019/20 with a 14.6% financial loss is probably better than getting 44 points in 2001/02 with 103% loss.

For those that think TK spent poorly compared to MAF, I completely disagree with you and believe it is a media beat up. The media wants to tell a message that money doesn't buy results and ex-footballers want to tell a message only ex-footballers can be good DOFs. Both stories are lies.

May I remind you that Anguissa costs 8.2% of our revenue and MAF spent an additional 89% of revenue on players (according to the P&Ls) that's 10x Anguissas in addition to all the players we had last season for only 18 more points. 

I believe that if Tony Khan wasn't limited by FFP, I believe he would have bought all the players we did plus at the start of the season also bought Moses, Hector, Cahill, Targett, Drinkwater, Norwood, Knockaert, Reid, Babel, and Gayle, resulting in about a 100% financial loss (i.e. < than MAF).

I believe a lineup of Rico; Moses, Hector, Cahill, Targett; Drinkwater, Anguissa, Cairney; Knockaert, Mitro, Babel with a bench of Betts, Fabri, TFM, Christie, Odoi, Mawson, Ream, MLM, Bryan, KMac, Chambers, Seri, Vietto, Kamara, Sessegnon, Schullre, Gayle would have got more than 44 points and it would have cost less than the Tigana squad.

Tony Khan is getting the best financial results of all our DOF in recent history but limited with FFP he is not good enough to get up the table quickly and is hanging around yo-yo land. But Tigana wasn't getting great results for the amount of money spent either, I believe Tigance was worse than TK.

The problem is all others teams we are competing against are also spending more than they earn too, we are spending at little more than some, while they are spending it a little better than us. Out History is that, since Malcolm McDonald, we haven't spent anywhere near as good as teams like Brentford.

Tony Khan is currently an average DOF, that will keep us between 18th and 28th best team in the UK at "current maximum FFP spending" unless he spends more effectively, but I believe TK is and will continue to improve slowly. If we get promoted and TK spends another £110m of his inheritance, I think TK will spend it well enough for us to stay up in the EPL at 17th position. Excellent Result.

HillingdonFFC

We had Watkins watched several times & were supposed to be lining up a bid. Not sure what happened there?
If we had stayed up Benrahma was a target too, know this as bloke I know is close to one our scouts


HillingdonFFC

Quote from: Texas White on July 12, 2020, 02:13:19 PM
Quote from: bog on July 12, 2020, 10:52:43 AM
100% in agreement. There must be another Vardy somewhere.

It always rankles with me that Cyrille Regis was at Hayes in 1976/7 and we never heard about him and he ended up in the Midlands with WBA.  Sometimes a club is only as good as it's scouting system.   

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Fulham scouts came and watched him along with many others. They never Made an offer which was crazy as the Hayes chairman was a lifetime Fulham supporter.


Hayes were our local non league club. My grandad was told about Regis. He went to watch him & he was brilliant, he knew people at Fulham & through them got a scout to go & watch Regis
They went & watched the game together, it was a midweek match & Regis had a quiet game. The guy who went called my grandad a few days later & said thanks for the recommendation but we've got better in our reserves??
A few months later Regis was ripping up the first Division with WBA
My grandad did the same with Francis Joseph at Hillingdon Borough. Fulham didn't rate him & a few years later he was banging them in for Wimbledon & Brentford & was linked to top flight clubs prior to his horrific leg break after which he was never the same player

The Rational Fan

#47
Quote from: HillingdonFFC on July 14, 2020, 05:28:46 AM
Quote from: Texas White on July 12, 2020, 02:13:19 PM
Quote from: bog on July 12, 2020, 10:52:43 AM
100% in agreement. There must be another Vardy somewhere.

It always rankles with me that Cyrille Regis was at Hayes in 1976/7 and we never heard about him and he ended up in the Midlands with WBA.  Sometimes a club is only as good as it's scouting system.   

Fulham scouts came and watched him along with many others. They never Made an offer which was crazy as the Hayes chairman was a lifetime Fulham supporter.


Hayes were our local non league club. My grandad was told about Regis. He went to watch him & he was brilliant, he knew people at Fulham & through them got a scout to go & watch Regis
They went & watched the game together, it was a midweek match & Regis had a quiet game. The guy who went called my grandad a few days later & said thanks for the recommendation but we've got better in our reserves??
A few months later Regis was ripping up the first Division with WBA
My grandad did the same with Francis Joseph at Hillingdon Borough. Fulham didn't rate him & a few years later he was banging them in for Wimbledon & Brentford & was linked to top flight clubs prior to his horrific leg break after which he was never the same player

I remember seeing Ray Houghton's first game at the cottage. Just before the game, a fan near me, labeled him as 20-year old that West Ham gave as on a free-transfer to get his near nothing paycheck off the books. After about 20 minutes of playing, the same fan reminded me that he knew West Ham were letting a star go.

Scouting must be hard, I had no idea Harrison Reed would play this well since lockdown, all I remember is him have a pretty crap partnership with James Maddison at Norwich (who is an awesome player) and then he played ok for us but never really having a good partnership with anyone at Fulham and being part of not great team performances dropping points.

rebel

Quote from: The Rational Fan on July 14, 2020, 06:34:46 AM
Quote from: HillingdonFFC on July 14, 2020, 05:28:46 AM
Quote from: Texas White on July 12, 2020, 02:13:19 PM
Quote from: bog on July 12, 2020, 10:52:43 AM
100% in agreement. There must be another Vardy somewhere.

It always rankles with me that Cyrille Regis was at Hayes in 1976/7 and we never heard about him and he ended up in the Midlands with WBA.  Sometimes a club is only as good as it's scouting system.   

Fulham scouts came and watched him along with many others. They never Made an offer which was crazy as the Hayes chairman was a lifetime Fulham supporter.


Hayes were our local non league club. My grandad was told about Regis. He went to watch him & he was brilliant, he knew people at Fulham & through them got a scout to go & watch Regis
They went & watched the game together, it was a midweek match & Regis had a quiet game. The guy who went called my grandad a few days later & said thanks for the recommendation but we've got better in our reserves??
A few months later Regis was ripping up the first Division with WBA
My grandad did the same with Francis Joseph at Hillingdon Borough. Fulham didn't rate him & a few years later he was banging them in for Wimbledon & Brentford & was linked to top flight clubs prior to his horrific leg break after which he was never the same player

I remember seeing Ray Houghton's first game at the cottage. Just before the game, a fan near me, labeled him as 20-year old that West Ham gave as on a free-transfer to get his near nothing paycheck off the books. After about 20 minutes of playing, the same fan reminded me that he knew West Ham were letting a star go.

Scouting must be hard, I had no idea Harrison Reed would play this well since lockdown, all I remember is him have a pretty crap partnership with James Maddison at Norwich (who is an awesome player) and then he played ok for us but never really having a good partnership with anyone at Fulham and being part of not great team performances dropping points.

He had a few injuries early in the season, maybe he came back too soon. The 'lockdown' break has helped him recover fully. The drinks breaks must be helping the players too.


Statto

#49
Quote from: The Rational Fan on July 14, 2020, 04:30:34 AM
As a fan, the MAF era was great he spent such an insane amount of money relative to revenue, but it terms of spending money on players wisely, if you actually look through the results getting 26 points in 2019/20 with a 14.6% financial loss is probably better than getting 44 points in 2001/02 with 103% loss.

For those that think TK spent poorly compared to MAF, I completely disagree with you and believe it is a media beat up. The media wants to tell a message that money doesn't buy results and ex-footballers want to tell a message only ex-footballers can be good DOFs. Both stories are lies.

May I remind you that Anguissa costs 8.2% of our revenue and MAF spent an additional 89% of revenue on players (according to the P&Ls) that's 10x Anguissas in addition to all the players we had last season for only 18 more points. 

Really not sure you can just use the accounts like that a determine a relative spend and do a comparison. There are all sorts of other factors to take into account, which I won't go into because this is already going off on a tangent from the OP.

A much better metric IMO would be other clubs' spending at the time. Five minutes on Google tells me PL clubs spent £323m in 01/02, and we spent £34m, meaning the other 19 clubs spent on average about £15m each.

In 18/19, PL clubs spent £1,257m, and we spent £105m, meaning the other PL clubs spent on average about £61m each.

If you scale up our spending in 01/02 to reflect the increase in other clubs' spending from that season to 19/20, that says in 01/02 we sent the equivalent of approx £138m.

So the comparison should be
01/02 - £138m spent, 44 points
18/19 - £105m spent, 26 points