Author Topic: Do we need an academy?  (Read 545 times)

Offline blingo

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Do we need an academy?
« on: October 17, 2020, 11:00:29 AM »
Reading on here, all it does is cost the club money and any good players that come out of it are sold for peanuts. What's the point?

Offline FulhamStu

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Re: Do we need an academy?
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2020, 11:10:20 AM »
Sess transfer fee will pay for a few years I would think.  We do need to get more players coming through though.

Offline Andy S

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Re: Do we need an academy?
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2020, 11:13:31 AM »
Yes. As a premier league club we have to have an academy. It costs a lot to run but if the top clubs won’t invest in the game who will. I’m sure we break even. I doubt that it is a loss maker


Offline bobby01

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Re: Do we need an academy?
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2020, 11:13:55 AM »
It was always my belief that bringing youngsters through and selling them was our method of sustainability, but if they get no playing time then does seem pointless. Stansfield was deemed good enough for the first team once, did ok imo, but never been near the bench since. Despite our lack of forward cover.

Offline Tabby

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Re: Do we need an academy?
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2020, 11:25:14 AM »
I doubt it has been a loss maker since Roberts left. You have the big sales like Sess and whenever we'll get the Liverpool money, but also smaller ones like LVC, Adernian and Drameh that pull in enough money to keep it running.

Brentford, who usually get brought up on this topic, had a worse academy and had to compete with Chelsea, Fulham and QPR all being within spitting distance with better academies.

Offline fulhamben

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Re: Do we need an academy?
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2020, 11:34:21 AM »
I doubt it has been a loss maker since Roberts left. You have the big sales like Sess and whenever we'll get the Liverpool money, but also smaller ones like LVC, Adernian and Drameh that pull in enough money to keep it running.

Brentford, who usually get brought up on this topic, had a worse academy and had to compete with Chelsea, Fulham and QPR all being within spitting distance with better academies.
and brentford do have an academy of sorts. i know this because my nephew plays for the under 18s, and they are playing fulham this week at raynes park


Offline Statto

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Re: Do we need an academy?
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2020, 11:37:17 AM »
Roberts and R Sessegnon didn't go for "peanuts"!

We'll probably get a decent fee for Elliott, and we must have got a bit for LVC, Hyndman and the others mentioned above

We got really unlucky with Dembele who's now a £20m player

Rodak still in the team now, along with Bettinelli and S Sessegnon still on the books

I must be forgetting a few others

Clearly its net impact is positive

Slightly concerned that with our current squad being inflated by poor TK signings, the next crop of youngsters will find it hard to get a game this year. For example I'd rather see a promising youngster like Ashby-Hammond as third choice GK than Fabri.

Offline rebel

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Re: Do we need an academy?
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2020, 11:42:32 AM »
Roberts and R Sessegnon didn't go for "peanuts"!

We'll probably get a decent fee for Elliott, and we must have got a bit for LVC, Hyndman and the others mentioned above

We got really unlucky with Dembele who's now a £20m player

Rodak still in the team now, along with Bettinelli and S Sessegnon still on the books

I must be forgetting a few others

Clearly its net impact is positive

Slightly concerned that with our current squad being inflated by poor TK signings, the next crop of youngsters will find it hard to get a game this year. For example I'd rather see a promising youngster like Ashby-Hammond as third choice GK than Fabri.


I think Dembele is worth a bit more then £20m, when he was with us, Tottenham wanted to offer something silly, I think it was £15m, since then he's played and scored goals in the Champions League, I'd say £50m would be about right.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 12:03:57 PM by rebel »

Offline fulhamben

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Re: Do we need an academy?
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2020, 11:43:03 AM »
Roberts and R Sessegnon didn't go for "peanuts"!

We'll probably get a decent fee for Elliott, and we must have got a bit for LVC, Hyndman and the others mentioned above

We got really unlucky with Dembele who's now a £20m player

Rodak still in the team now, along with Bettinelli and S Sessegnon still on the books

I must be forgetting a few others

Clearly its net impact is positive

Slightly concerned that with our current squad being inflated by poor TK signings, the next crop of youngsters will find it hard to get a game this year. For example I'd rather see a promising youngster like Ashby-Hammond as third choice GK than Fabri.

woodrow, dan burn, zat knight
« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 11:44:52 AM by fulhamben »


Offline Statto

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Re: Do we need an academy?
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2020, 11:53:52 AM »
woodrow, dan burn, zat knight

And Smalling

Although then there's the debate about whether those we got from other clubs (Dembele from PSG, Woodrow from Luton, Smalling from Maidstone etc) when they were already 15/16/17 can be classed as academy products
« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 11:58:53 AM by Statto »

Offline fulhamben

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Re: Do we need an academy?
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2020, 11:56:01 AM »
woodrow, dan burn, zat knight

And smalling

Although then there's the debate about whether those we bought from other clubs (PSG, Luton, Maidstone etc) when they were already 15/16/17 can be cladded as academy products
played in the academy, come from the academy imo. every single kid would have played for a different club growing up, every single one of them.

Offline LRCN

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Re: Do we need an academy?
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2020, 12:11:59 PM »
consider the value of contributions of betts, moussa, & rodak [and think of their value in the context of an equivalent transfer fee for bringing someone in]. s sess made a smaller contribution last season too. on top of that we have the more tangible contributions of r sess + millions cash generated by sales over the past 5-6 years.

having said that we have to match that to the investments in a grade 1 academy. I don't know what those are. does anyone here know?


Offline toshes mate

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Re: Do we need an academy?
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2020, 12:20:31 PM »
Just like most things in life academies are competitive and have their own followings and pecking orders.  FFC’s academy has a reasonable reputation as compared to many and it obviously helps academy recruitment when we are a solid Premier League club, just as it helps other recruitment scenarios.   In terms of what you get back for your bucks it is a question best asked of the whole football scene as in ‘what has it ever been about?’    You want professional players meaning they can earn a living from a career in football and perhaps also have a go to second skill.  Parents are thus making ‘informed’ decisions/choices (if they have any) about their kids’ schooling as they always have done and choose a football academy.

The professional standards that can be reached are not often realised within academies although it can occasionally happen.  Most often the standard is reached at a later date coming from what might be called player application to better themselves e.g. attitude, adaptability etc.   

If there was a way to guarantee ‘genius’ at anything, then why on earth wouldn’t the supreme [sic] academics have already nailed it good and proper?    What these supreme academics do is keep their ears to the grapevine on the look-out for the best talent thus far identified in the world around them.     

Offline WolverineFFC

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Re: Do we need an academy?
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2020, 01:45:10 PM »
Reading on here, all it does is cost the club money and any good players that come out of it are sold for peanuts. What's the point?

I think of the goals Ryan Sessegnon and Dembele scored over the last 5 - 6 years for the club and wonder why the question "What's the point" would even be asked?

Without those 2 players coming out of the academy where would FFC be at the moment competitively and financially? This is without even considering all of the other players mentioned.

Offline res

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Re: Do we need an academy?
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2020, 01:51:52 PM »
Reading on here, all it does is cost the club money and any good players that come out of it are sold for peanuts. What's the point?

 Two Issues:
 -agree we don't want an Academy to be a significant financial drain, but we haven't sold for "peanuts" e.g. Ryan S, Pat R, plus a lot of smaller fees which add up (Trotta, Drameh, Adenarin, Woodrow, Burgess etc)
 -developing players through an Academy adds interest to the club and is a good thing in its own right....much better than simply buying and buying.


Offline General

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Re: Do we need an academy?
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2020, 02:31:47 PM »
woodrow, dan burn, zat knight

And Smalling

Although then there's the debate about whether those we got from other clubs (Dembele from PSG, Woodrow from Luton, Smalling from Maidstone etc) when they were already 15/16/17 can be classed as academy products

When you mention selling players like that with the likes of Smalling, Sessegnon and Roberts (who apparently sold for £12m), I wonder how much of that fee goes towards the different aspects of the club? I think we sold Smalling for £12m too. Sess apparently £25m.

Those three fees if they just went to upkeeping the academy would keep the academy going for a long time I imagine, so would more than justify keeping it.

If you take those costs and put it against the entire back end of the club, then they'd still make the academy worth it.

Question is, I suppose - who's next who looks like they may do well for us?

Marek and Betts and Steven Sess are all academy players that would earn us fees if we ever sold them.

Offline Penfold

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Re: Do we need an academy?
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2020, 05:10:37 PM »
I think a good academy is important. Some people might get excited by the likes of Seri having a good game every now and then but I recall some great players from the youth team. Paul Parker etc.

Offline filham

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Re: Do we need an academy?
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2020, 05:37:59 PM »
Brentford have done well without an Academy, I imagine the two strikers they have just lost are going to bring in a lot more cash than our set up has earned over a few years.
Look back at the home grown talent we used to have in the old days without an Accademy and convince me we have benefitted more from any modern player.
Sean Davies was pre Academy and he gave us better service than any Academy player.