Lesson Learned Re Possession

[toshes mate]

There are two facets to possession:  1) as long as you have the ball, your opponent cannot score and 2) you need possession to score. 

At the end of Monday's game we receive a percentage breakdown of length of time for each team which shows an eight percent difference which means WBA had the ball for just over seven minutes longer than we did over the ninety plus.  You'd hardly notice that difference when you consider how long the ball remains 'dead' at times. 

The art form is to use the ball wisely when you have it.  At first this is difficult because some players dislike having the ball in high risk situations and need to be coached into being braver.  Others need to be coaxed into taking risks with the ball more often, and become more confident over time.  This team may offer the best of all worlds once they have a team wavelength as well as partnering wavelengths but it does take time for these to form.   We need to be patient in a situation that doesn't actually invite that sort of attitude.

[MJG]

Another way to look at the game the other day is when you have the ball. If you break the game down to 15 min segments its like this:

1-15   54%
16-30 48%
31-45 36%
46-60 37%
61-75 51%
76-90 50%

Started teh game in control of the ball and game, maybe setting the tone for it, allowed them seemeinly to have it the middle and then level pegging

[bill taylors apprentice]

Jokanovic developed the keep ball style to protect the defence and ensured there was some dynamic attacking football at the end of many of the moves.

This was an excellent use of the players we had in the EFL but we moved the ball too slowly for the PL.

Parker has had us repeating this both last season and this with possession being over done at the expense of penetration.

Mondays tactics and performance was a better use of our current assets.

[The Cravenette]

Parker has often come out at the end of matches saying we need to be quicker and braver.  It seems he has always tried to coach this but never had the right personnel before. 

As others have said it makes the world of difference when you have players so comfortable with the ball and happy to drive forward with it. It's as if Lookman coming in and doing it has given the others that confidence.  TC was certainly a different player the other night to what we have seen lately (and what we saw last time in the Prem).

On the possession stats front, Ream was often our leading passer in matches because he was always knocking it sideways.  Would be interesting to see the number of passes our CB's against West Brom had compared with other games.

[MJG]

Parker has often come out at the end of matches saying we need to be quicker and braver.  It seems he has always tried to coach this but never had the right personnel before. 

As others have said it makes the world of difference when you have players so comfortable with the ball and happy to drive forward with it. It's as if Lookman coming in and doing it has given the others that confidence.  TC was certainly a different player the other night to what we have seen lately (and what we saw last time in the Prem).

On the possession stats front, Ream was often our leading passer in matches because he was always knocking it sideways.  Would be interesting to see the number of passes our CB's against West Brom had compared with other games.

Its only one game for Andersen but he had 37 passes, Adarabioyo in his 3 games has averaged 54(28 in last game), Ream 63. Quite a big change.

[colinwhite]

And the big difference the centre -backs like Lemina often played the ball quickly forward,finding feet but also space behind defenders.Thats down to personel /individual strengths of players available/ and tactics directed by the former.

[Count Flapula]

Quantity of possession doesn't win you games - it's the quality of your possession that makes the difference.

The ideal goal should be to have both quantity and quality of possession as statistical / odds-wise it makes sence to have the ball, but if that's not possible it's about what you do with /without the ball in both penalty areas that matters.

[The Cravenette]

Parker has often come out at the end of matches saying we need to be quicker and braver.  It seems he has always tried to coach this but never had the right personnel before. 

As others have said it makes the world of difference when you have players so comfortable with the ball and happy to drive forward with it. It's as if Lookman coming in and doing it has given the others that confidence.  TC was certainly a different player the other night to what we have seen lately (and what we saw last time in the Prem).

On the possession stats front, Ream was often our leading passer in matches because he was always knocking it sideways.  Would be interesting to see the number of passes our CB's against West Brom had compared with other games.

Its only one game for Andersen but he had 37 passes, Adarabioyo in his 3 games has averaged 54(28 in last game), Ream 63. Quite a big change.

Thanks, that does show the difference. 

As others have said, I think the midfield are "showing" for the ball more too which should allow the CB's to get it forward quicker.

[RaySmith]

More confident, and skilful defenders,  are prepared, and capable, of making forward passes to attacking players, rather than knocking it backwards  and forwards to each other without going anywhere.

Thus they make fewer passes, but probably more important ones, turning defence into attack quickly.

[Cookie6262]

I like having a possession based philosophy as a general core for my team but if there is an available forward option straight away it should be taken, last season the number of times we won possession in our own half and automatically went backwards to the centre halves to keep possession when there were quick forward options available was maddening. The mindset should be can I pass it forward, No? Ok let's keep possession. I also agree with comments that personnel changes have helped Robinson, Lookman, Anguissa and Lemina are all capable and enjoy beating a man one on one whereas we didn't really have that last year.

[The Cravenette]

I know it is only one game but it does look promising.  I also think Kongola can play a bit and RLC will definitely have a part to play.

We could still do with another forward but i think on the whole we will do OK.

Consistancy is key.

[WindyCity]

I do find it strange that there are people that seem to belittle the whole possession based ethos, as if its in someway a negative objective. (not on this thread)

Why would you find it strange?  Possession 'with a purpose' is the answer.  What good is possession advantage if you create nothing from it?  If you do not generate really good scoring chances and opportunities?  How many games have we seen both this year and last where FFC had dominating possession time yet only managed a few good scoring chances, if any at all?  Sure, I, along with most here, would absolutely favor possession advantage IF the club were actually doing something useful with that advantage.

[WindyCity]

possession only matters with what you do with it. no points for possession stats

Bingo!

[colinwhite]

No possession is meaningless ,without purpose. That concept has been coined out of frustration from fans. Its small margins and of course the aim  is always to create chances. we now look like we have a team with players better equiped to use possession in a more varied way,with more breakthrough Players with more pace and strength.

[WindyCity]

No possession is meaningless ,without purpose. That concept has been coined out of frustration from fans. Its small margins and of course the aim  is always to create chances. we now look like we have a team with players better equiped to use possession in a more varied way,with more breakthrough Players with more pace and strength.

While I agree with your premise and commentary, I also think it is fair to point out that we have seen any number of games both this year and last where FFC had substantial possession and yet produced very few, if any in many cases, good scoring chances and just basically played catch with each other for large portions of games.  In my view, that possession advantage proved meaningless and without purpose.  If you want to call that fan frustration, so be it.  All that said, let's hope that the WBA game is a harbinger of things to come, with more skilled players, willing to move forward and take chances, and produce more and better scoring chances.

[colinwhite]

as Mjg ( I believe ) was referring to the possession football has led to the type of game we played against WBA with better players making better decisions ,but both goals came from fine passages of play not quick lumps up the pitch.

[Sting of the North]

as Mjg ( I believe ) was referring to the possession football has led to the type of game we played against WBA with better players making better decisions ,but both goals came from fine passages of play not quick lumps up the pitch.

Agree wholeheartedly that our play against WBA was built upon a foundation of possession football. It was not based on soaking up pressure and counter, nor was it based on good old kick-it-long -and-hope-for-the-best football. We clearly wanted to keep the ball on the ground and keep it within the team in order to hurt the opponent when the opportunity came by. It was just that for once we dared to try and we managed to beat our guys regularly all over the pitch, and our partnerships were seemingly successful. If this was a product of hard work on the training pitch, inability of the opponent or just pure coincidence may be too early to tell, but I do not think this was a huge switch in game plan as compared to other games. Possession for the sake of it has never been the plan, it's just the chosen means to an end both offensively and defensively.

The actual possession stats for this particular game was as has been pointed out also influenced by the goals. We had more of the possession until our first goal, and after our second goal WBA started to dominate the possession statistics for about 15 minutes each side of the break. It was no surprise that after going up 2-0 we were glad to let WBA aimlessly move the ball around in their own half (as we ourselves have been the victims of doing too often because of a seeming lack of ability to break down well organized teams). When they tired we tried to (and should have) put the game to bed and thus evening out the statistics somewhat.

In short, it was the game in itself and the events therein that led to us having less possession than our opponents, combined with us deploying our tactics more successfully than we normally do. There was no huge shift in philosophy from Parkers side, just a few tweaks and a better execution by the players.

All in my opinion.

[rebel]

There is nothing wrong with possession football, but you have to do something with that possession. There has to be an 'end goal'. We did that under Slav. With Parker there are too many passes, the opposition can 'reset' and the opportunities you try to create have gone. It's all too slow, ends up at a training ground pace. With possession football, if concentration isn't 100%, the ball is lost. The big plus is that the more possession you have, the less the opposition can create or hurt you providing you have a solid defence. 

[Woolly Mammoth]

Of course while Fulham have possession the opponents cannot score, however one small detail in the observations regarding keeping possession which prevents the opposition from scoring was unfortunately neither could Fulham score.
But on Tuesday by moving the ball forward much quicker with one and two touch passing movements with 10 yard balls to feet, supported by the fact that our players took on opponents and seem to play without fear, showed how much better and positive we perform when we play with a higher tempo.

[Jim©]

I think that our downfall this season has been what we do when we DON'T have possession of the ball; how do we win it back, where do we win it back, who wins it back, what shape are we in without the ball etc. For me that was a huge positive of Monday's game, we looked like Lemina, Frank and TC were there to disrupt and win that ball back once we were back in shape- it worked. Against a team who are more comfortable in possession, that'll be much much harder.

I too don't understand the negative view of having possession, there's literally nothing at all that is bad about having the ball more than your opposition. Of course we're all aware that it's what you do with it and specifically in our case, the speed at which you do it. We took more risks, TC drove at them as soon as he had the ball, Robinson and Aina were back to overlapping a la Slav etc.
Also, anyone that's played the game know how tough it is to control the ball as easily as we do. Keeping possession is a huge attribute to have if you've got the players to do it.