Fulham players and COVID vaccination

[toshes mate]

I'm sure Elon Musk knows exactly what's going on and it just throwing the proverbial dog a bone here.

Much of his investment over the last several years has been in the form of car technology, meanwhile certain international institutions are prophesising for a "utopian" future without cars, and (planned or not) are using the virus as a justification for their technocratic agendas.

I am sure he is aware of how all systems work especially as there is similar evidence of poor quality in his own company but that isn't really the point.  Looking at the reported science on Covid-19 testing (paper written in September) for the UK the false positives level (which are still at an unknown rate) are estimated between 1 and 8 percent which means that many, many tens of thousands of people may have been given the wrong result.  It gets even worse for negative test results where many people have been told to get retested before assuming they have not been infected. 

I may have assumed a conspiracy in my younger years but I am afraid to say this is much worse than anything I have seen in my lifetime so far as bungled thinking and misplaced scientific effort goes.  It has all the hallmarks of the similar untruths reported of climate change causes and shows science to be in a very unhealthy state for whatever reason. 

[FFCBadger]

Yep, conspiracies everywhere! Them aside, the vaccine alters your DNA which feels a bit risky to me.
If I was Mr Khan I'd want to wait and see

[Statto]

One of the most striking impacts of Covid-19 is how it has brought all the climate change deniers, doomsday preppers and the rest of the foil hat mob out from their bunkers to tell us all about 5G conspiracies and having our DNA altered

[Woolly Mammoth]

I was glad to see the back of those leeches, ignore them and they will suck the blood out of you, I found that salt or a naked flame will remove them swiftly.

[Sammyffc]

Elon Musk, the Tesla and SpaceX entrepreneur and high-profile sceptic, wrote on Twitter that he took four rapid antigen tests yesterday and got a mixture of results back. "Something extremely bogus is going on. Was tested for covid four times today. Two tests came back negative, two came back positive. Same machine, same test, same nurse."

Mass testing without further molecular level investigation and clinical assessment of results is largely futile if you really want to stem the tide of the infection.  I just hope they are gpoing to take much more care on vaccine development before it is released.   We really do need some truly competent scientists to do some serious talking to political leaders to stop the rot.

I was pretty annoyed at Elon for this as he is way smarter to do tweets with this type of information.

For months and months there have been debates regarding the effectiveness of rapid antigen tests. They have a history of giving off false negatives and false positives , and he will 100% know this. Furthermore, some countries have actually started to ban the use of rapid antigen tests for proof of not having the virus as they are too unreliable.

Elon knows that the most accurate tests are the PCR's, however he pulled a fast one here and fueled the covid deniers.

[toshes mate]

This is an editorial from the British Medical Journal published last Friday (13/11) intended for GPs and medical professionals.  The GPs in my family tell me it is a pretty good summary of where things are.

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4425?fbclid=IwAR3rPFGU2347euVEPPmkknGNp-ALmMrdRLsN6pVlB_uINQffCjwnrrbbq4E

[toshes mate]

Elon Musk, the Tesla and SpaceX entrepreneur and high-profile sceptic, wrote on Twitter that he took four rapid antigen tests yesterday and got a mixture of results back. "Something extremely bogus is going on. Was tested for covid four times today. Two tests came back negative, two came back positive. Same machine, same test, same nurse."

Mass testing without further molecular level investigation and clinical assessment of results is largely futile if you really want to stem the tide of the infection.  I just hope they are gpoing to take much more care on vaccine development before it is released.   We really do need some truly competent scientists to do some serious talking to political leaders to stop the rot.

I was pretty annoyed at Elon for this as he is way smarter to do tweets with this type of information.

For months and months there have been debates regarding the effectiveness of rapid antigen tests. They have a history of giving off false negatives and false positives , and he will 100% know this. Furthermore, some countries have actually started to ban the use of rapid antigen tests for proof of not having the virus as they are too unreliable.

Elon knows that the most accurate tests are the PCR's, however he pulled a fast one here and fueled the covid deniers.

This has absolutely nothing to do with Covid denial.  No one is denying the presence of SARs-CoV-2; it is how you deal with it which is the controversy and even PCR testing is prone to false positives which is why every test needs to be supported by clinical background evidence before a person is told they are infectious or not as the case may be , something which is not being done with any test other than those by GP or in hospital.   Getting a result - positive  or negative - without a medical professional's informed opinion is bad practice period.

[FFCBadger]

This is an editorial from the British Medical Journal published last Friday (13/11) intended for GPs and medical professionals.  The GPs in my family tell me it is a pretty good summary of where things are.

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4425?fbclid=IwAR3rPFGU2347euVEPPmkknGNp-ALmMrdRLsN6pVlB_uINQffCjwnrrbbq4E

Just wow! Your family (given their profession and experience) and the comments speak for themselves...
It's difficult to pick out the signal from the noise these days but sources like these really help.

With Mr Khan's £100M's invested I'd be well shot of any shots for now at least

[Statto]

Meanwhile back in the real world...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/54893437

[RaySmith]

I remember Polio when I was growing up, seeing other kids with callipers on their legs was commonplace, , but they introduced a vaccine, and  you don't hear of Polio today, in the West anyway.

TB was also a killer, and again , they successfully  introduced a vaccine.

Measles, Mumps and Chickenpox were also very prevalent, and could kill, but  vaccine was successful against them.
These diseases have only re-emerged to some extent, because of people refusing to  take vaccines through unproven, and crazy,  conspiracy theories.

Without medical science our  current average western  lifespan would be greatly reduced.

Incidentally Dolly Parton  donated  a million dollars to the latest US vaccine, proved to have 95 %  success - well done to her.

[MikeTheCubed]

I remember Polio when I was growing up, seeing other kids with callipers on their legs was commonplace, , but they introduced a vaccine, and  you don't hear of Polio today, in the West anyway.

TB was also a killer, and again , they successfully  introduced a vaccine.

Measles, Mumps and Chickenpox were also very prevalent, and could kill, but  vaccine was successful against them.
These diseases have only re-emerged to some extent, because of people refusing to  take vaccines through unproven, and crazy,  conspiracy theories.

Without medical science our  current average western  lifespan would be greatly reduced.

Incidentally Dolly Parton  donated  a million dollars to the latest US vaccine, proved to have 95 %  success - well done to her.

There is nothing wrong with vaccination per se, but we are talking about a new technology with rushed testing being applied to professional athletes for a disease which is widely accepted to only be dangerous to a tiny percent of the population. If COVID were as dangerous as some of those other diseases you've mentioned then it might make sense or justify the investment.

[toshes mate]

Vaccinations that are administered to us throughout our lives are safe and effective.  I had my latest 'flu season jab last month and should a safe and effective vaccine become available against Covid-19 then I will line up in the queue like most other people. 

But, at this moment in time, there are only potential vaccines and the one currently said to be leading the race is especially tricky to use given that it must be stored at a very low temperature indeed way below that offered by normal freezer technology. It also requires two doses a few weeks apart, and may not to be suitable for everyone.  There are others in the race that are less controversial.   It is the timeline that is in question here.   Our own Health Minister suggested in Parliament in February last (see Hansard) that by this time this year (mid to late Autumn) a vaccine for SARS-CoV-2 would likely become available.  The many experts I have listened to say Spring next year (late March to June) is the time we will likely see a vaccine become widely available. 

What do we do to combat this virus in the meantime? 

[Holders]

There'll always be the very wealthy who, with enough money, can get their hands on anything but it's been said, and I strongly agree, that vaccines should be on as-needed basis not the ability to pay.

It was argued above that footballers and "celebs" having the vaccine might set a good example and encourage others to do so. On the face of it, a fair point but the converse is also true and we've seen how a few very vocal and dangerous individuals can mislead and influence a gullible/impressionable population on other issues  several countries around the world.

[toshes mate]

The previously suppressed Danish study on masks which no one would publish had now been published.  It shows that at best masks offer no protection from infection except in clinical settings where they offer some protection to a patient from infection by a masked clinician.  This echoes the original advice from WHO.

[FFCBadger]

Meanwhile back in the real world...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/54893437

What's your problem with BMJ?

[Lateksie]

I personally don't trust those vaccines and I recommend you think twice before taking this step. In general, I'm very full of covid and everything related to it because it changed our lives enormously and canceled thousands of my plans. The other day I did an antigen covid test and the result came quickly, finding out that I was infected with covid. It is going to be a difficult period of recovery.

[AnOldBrownie]

I hope the club aren't working with Ticketmaster anymore...

Why?

[filham]

If footballers are given priority over front line NHS workers then they should be made to swap wage packets for a few months.

[AnOldBrownie]

The previously suppressed Danish study on masks which no one would publish had now been published. It shows that at best masks offer no protection from infection except in clinical settings where they offer some protection to a patient from infection by a masked clinician.  This echoes the original advice from WHO.

Link please.   Also, what's the "at worst"?

[MikeTheCubed]

I hope the club aren't working with Ticketmaster anymore...

Why?

Aside from the ethical debate which is already permeating another thread, they are notoriously rubbish and do not allow you to choose a specific seat when booking away games online; a facility we had until ~5 years ago  :dft011:.