NFR: Crypto Currencies

[General]

I'm riding Doge Coin to the Moon, got in early,nothing too crazy, just a couple hundred


... just before the Elon Musk hype, still holding, still ALOT of growth there. The world loves irony and a good joke and I think for that reason itactually has real legs, especially in a Meme generation. Will steadily continue to return my original investment withdrawing in small amounts, and treat the rest as free stock from there.  For me its a safer bet than playing the lottery or gambling which I dont do very often. Its also become a bit of a silly and fun joke with a few friends of mine. The idea of paying for things in the future with doge coin is a fun and silly idea to not attatch too much hope to,  but, the ........but what if has been the cause of a lot of laughter already.
If you're looking for a way to get out of debt. DONT DO IT. If you have a spare bit of money to play with. Go for it in my opinion.

With Elon shedding so much light on it , and inviting other celebs in to put the spotlight on it, I don't see why - if they install some level of a soft cap as some signs are suggesting, I dont see why it won't continue to grow as awareness spreads. will it be the next Bitcoin? mprobably not, but will it get to $1-$3 ...I could see that feasibly, especially if Elon continues to legitimize it by doing things like letting people buy Teslas with it. Bitcoin had the same ponzi scheme etc levelled at it early, now steadily different places are accepting it as currency.

Its taken a hit recently but I tend to agree. Currently still one of the largest by market cap you've no harm putting a small amount in and watching it grow if it does kick off past 1USD etc. Could make millionaires and even more - billionaires if gets wider adoption to even 1/50th of what bitcoin is now.

Absolutely, as with all these markets, it's dipped the last day or 2, but it's rise is just beginning in my opinion. It has a hype around it that's hard to replicate and it appears to be consolidating to an extent, and establishing itself bit by bit. As Elon and others discuss it in podcasts, as more businesses legitimize it ( I see a car dealership sold the first Doge coin car this week ha!) I dont think this current dip is anything deeply concerning.... Im even considering an extra cheeky £50 during this dip. In it for the long run myself so not too perturbed by the lows... but then we're not talking thousands invested personally so it's a little easier not to get stressed about!

Investment is amongst other things about buying things when they're low and selling when they're high.. things may be low now but they'll continue to bull run into the end of the year with some institutional investors saying it could last another 9- 22 months. Youve obviously got to keep that in mind.. when the bull run stops and becomes bearish.. but also the long term. It only matters re the bearish if you want to take cash out and then either keep it to enhance your own life or take out the maximum profits to reinvest once it goes down again but it will go back up so investing in it a couple of years ago or even in smaller altcoins now should see you be able to hold regardless and still be in profit.

Bitcoin could go up to 500,000.. which if you've got enough to buy one now would be an amazing return but other coins will work too.

I know of homes that have been bought with bitcoin now, loans that are given off of bitcoin as an asset. It's here to stay i think.

If you think of how much it has come into a more mainstream consciousness now but how many people are interested but still not investing.. this next phase will tip a large chunk into a phase where the returns for those already invested could be huge.

You need to take calculated risk from time to time to succeed and this is one of those times I believe.

[General]

Yes, I have invested into Bitcoin about 3 years ago when it was low and have reaped the benefit as it continues to surge onwards and upwards. The two I have are  BTC-USD I bought at around 7,000 currently 47,002.41. Also ETH-USD, bought at around 500, currently 1,802,15.
After a few lows they have shot up, and continue to do so. Despite all the good forecasts I now check them every day in case there is a fall. I may withdraw my initial investment shortly. Leave the profit there until I have enough money to buy Fulham and employ a fully qualified D of F.

I have spent me life  working in asset management and the below is all i can say.

It could make you a lot of money but PLEASE do not invest more than you are prepared to loose, could be worth zero when you wake up one morning.

This is important to note. Whilst I dont think it'll one day see you wake up having lost everything as I think we are past a point of no return as I've pointed out in other preceeding posts.. be careful with investing more than you can comfortably lose.

[General]

Its in its infancy Statto, it has yet to be fully accepted but it is getting there and it will be the future whether we like it or not. Decentralization is about not letting governments control the value of currency. It will make banking faster and cheaper in many ways. Whichever way we look at this now, institutional money is now showing, and /i think that they will have done their homework, even one of the four big American banks is considering it as an investment vehicle for their investors. We can't stop progress and I for one see it working and working well. Of course you are fully entitled to your views, but I am no day trader so I have invested and recouped my initial investment and still hold a good sized portfolio, which i will continue to hold, so it runs on free money. I'm hopefully just going to enjoy the ride. But remember, banks are a waste of time as are building societies, they use your money to make them money and no investment is ever guaranteed, so you could lose your money anyway.

I am not trying to convince anyone to invest in crypto at all. the point of this thread was curiosity to see if other Fulhamites shared the same interest.

Agreed

[General]

All of what I have said should be caveated by the facts that I am invested in crypto and have seen rewards/gains, have read up a fair bit about it and believe in it but I am by far not the most educated on crypto.

Charles hoskinson is someone who has created two cryptocurrencies who is a good listen to and has a great appreciation of the wider technology, context and advancements in the space and its future. He created Cardano and Ethereum and works with governments, multinationals and institutional investors in implementing the tech and helping them understand the value of crypto and blockchain technology for those who want to learn more.

[FFC1987]

@ Blingo

The banking sector exists to match people who don't have money and need it now (eg someone buying a house or a company wanting to build a bigger factory) with people who have money and don't need it now (eg people saving a pension for their retirement). Bitcoin isn't going to fix or change any of that. It's just a currency. You're still going to need "banks and pension schemes".

And I don't see how it'll make anything "faster or cheaper". You can already trade fiat currencies in milliseconds.

It will inhibit central governments engaging in monetary policy actions like QE, but I'm not sure why you see that as a bad thing. We'll see in the aftermath of the current crisis the need for those tools to get us out of trouble.

And "in it's infancy"? Well how long does that last? Because I remember reading about Bitcoin 5-10 years ago and I'm still yet to encounter a single merchant asking me to use Bitcoin to pay for anything in the real world.

The only genuine selling point I've heard is that the blockchain technology underlying it is highly secure, making it less susceptible to fraud. But I don't think that offsets the various disadvantages, not least that it's not even climate friendly, and let's be honest, nothing that isn't climate friendly is going to take off these days.

I'll caveat the foregoing with the admission that I don't know an awful lot about it, although I get the impression I know as much as you do. But TBH I'm more interested in having a healthy discussion about this than the match tonight, such is mu optimism about FFC these days!

Read up a bit on decentralised finance, it may help you understand it better. As for the impression you have that I know as little as you do about crypto. You are mistaken. Still, you're entitled to your opinion so fair enough. My eldest son is an expert on crypto, he makes his living with it, and of course we have many conversations about investing, the future of crypto coins and defi and many other aspects about the particular sector. So I'm half informed if it makes you feel better 👍

You say he makes a living from it, do you mean as a bitcoin miner ie GPU hoarder? If so, as much as I find cypto fascinating, the negative impact its had on PC gaming and getting your hands on recent graphics cards has me raging.

As for anyone being an expert in cypto, I follow it a lot. Anyone suggesting its the future, or the opposite, doesn't know, fun to guess, but it really is as simple as that. It could just as easily, be the next BIG thing as it is the next fad and gone overnight. It's extremely volatile, isn't safe, and in current times, not a market I'd recommend getting involved with unless you yourself have done a lot of homework into it. I've seen a lot of this over the past 5 years culminating in the recent bandwagoning of GME stock to investments in certain cypto being completely worthless over a 24 hour period and as mentioned, some just straight out fraud.

And whoever referenced Elon as a mark of recommendation, I'm a big fan but not only is his investment a drop in the ocean (unless its changed again, hes now the richest guy in the world), he's clearly a troll and loves manipulating the markets for his favour, so much so he's constantly being investigated by the SEC for it. Again, love the guy, but take some of his investment advice with a pinch of salt. Example, on his own stock 'oh, it's totally overvalued'. The CEO of said company's aid that about his own stock and made it decline, quickly. He knows what he's doing when he tweets things or updates his bio to increase stock value.

Thats an odd quip to make.. he says he makes a living off it and mining these days is far less productive than simply investing. It makes no sense to go to a means to an end in labelling his son a miner when it's made thousands if not millions of people exponentially wealthy through simple investment.

I think you should re-read it. I asked if that was the case, not that he was. And based on the ruined GPU market, clearly mining is still a profitable option even if you have an unfavourable energy provider and a mid level GPU. Less profitable than before but you can still on current levels reap upwards of £200 a month from it and that's being hugely conservative. My gripe was with the ruined market as a big PC gamer not specifically with this gentlemen's son. Hopefully that's cleared it up for you.

[General]

@ Blingo

The banking sector exists to match people who don't have money and need it now (eg someone buying a house or a company wanting to build a bigger factory) with people who have money and don't need it now (eg people saving a pension for their retirement). Bitcoin isn't going to fix or change any of that. It's just a currency. You're still going to need "banks and pension schemes".

And I don't see how it'll make anything "faster or cheaper". You can already trade fiat currencies in milliseconds.

It will inhibit central governments engaging in monetary policy actions like QE, but I'm not sure why you see that as a bad thing. We'll see in the aftermath of the current crisis the need for those tools to get us out of trouble.

And "in it's infancy"? Well how long does that last? Because I remember reading about Bitcoin 5-10 years ago and I'm still yet to encounter a single merchant asking me to use Bitcoin to pay for anything in the real world.

The only genuine selling point I've heard is that the blockchain technology underlying it is highly secure, making it less susceptible to fraud. But I don't think that offsets the various disadvantages, not least that it's not even climate friendly, and let's be honest, nothing that isn't climate friendly is going to take off these days.

I'll caveat the foregoing with the admission that I don't know an awful lot about it, although I get the impression I know as much as you do. But TBH I'm more interested in having a healthy discussion about this than the match tonight, such is mu optimism about FFC these days!

Read up a bit on decentralised finance, it may help you understand it better. As for the impression you have that I know as little as you do about crypto. You are mistaken. Still, you're entitled to your opinion so fair enough. My eldest son is an expert on crypto, he makes his living with it, and of course we have many conversations about investing, the future of crypto coins and defi and many other aspects about the particular sector. So I'm half informed if it makes you feel better 👍

You say he makes a living from it, do you mean as a bitcoin miner ie GPU hoarder? If so, as much as I find cypto fascinating, the negative impact its had on PC gaming and getting your hands on recent graphics cards has me raging.

As for anyone being an expert in cypto, I follow it a lot. Anyone suggesting its the future, or the opposite, doesn't know, fun to guess, but it really is as simple as that. It could just as easily, be the next BIG thing as it is the next fad and gone overnight. It's extremely volatile, isn't safe, and in current times, not a market I'd recommend getting involved with unless you yourself have done a lot of homework into it. I've seen a lot of this over the past 5 years culminating in the recent bandwagoning of GME stock to investments in certain cypto being completely worthless over a 24 hour period and as mentioned, some just straight out fraud.

And whoever referenced Elon as a mark of recommendation, I'm a big fan but not only is his investment a drop in the ocean (unless its changed again, hes now the richest guy in the world), he's clearly a troll and loves manipulating the markets for his favour, so much so he's constantly being investigated by the SEC for it. Again, love the guy, but take some of his investment advice with a pinch of salt. Example, on his own stock 'oh, it's totally overvalued'. The CEO of said company's aid that about his own stock and made it decline, quickly. He knows what he's doing when he tweets things or updates his bio to increase stock value.

Thats an odd quip to make.. he says he makes a living off it and mining these days is far less productive than simply investing. It makes no sense to go to a means to an end in labelling his son a miner when it's made thousands if not millions of people exponentially wealthy through simple investment.

I think you should re-read it. I asked if that was the case, not that he was. And based on the ruined GPU market, clearly mining is still a profitable option even if you have an unfavourable energy provider and a mid level GPU. Less profitable than before but you can still on current levels reap upwards of £200 a month from it and that's being hugely conservative. My gripe was with the ruined market as a big PC gamer not specifically with this gentlemen's son. Hopefully that's cleared it up for you.

Fair. Apologies if I misread and/or jumped the gun. I read what you said as a leading statement which they didn't initially mention and with mining having negative connotations perceived it as a flippant remark. Youve clarified that and so I apologise.

[FFC1987]

No worries, dude, no offence caused and no need to apologise. If he had been a miner I'd of made one! Ha. Been waiting months for a 3080 ti and its due to miners and scalpers! I've a hand in various crypto currencies, I'm just trying to be cautiously optimistic rather than riding to the moon!

If you love crypto stories about digital/online occurrences impacting the real world markets, check out the Eve Online story about a guy accidently killing a ship, and releasing the in game token subs that created international market movements.   

[andyk]

Bitcoin is a pyramid scheme. It may  be the most successful pyramid scheme in history. 
If you can get the whole world to join a pyramid scheme it  can last a long time.
The mining of bitcoin is also a prime example of end stage capitalism.  More energy is expended carrying out pointless arithmetic calculations, than is used to power some nation states.  As the price increases, the motivation to burn more energy also increases.  A colossal waste of resources,  which will make a small number of people very wealthy. 

[blingo]

Andy, justify why you think it's a pyramid scheme? Would you classify gold or oil as pyramid schemes too?

[Cambridge Pete]

Dear Blingo. Lost my previous reply. I feel that as a member of an auguste Chartered Body and an MBA I'm reasonably financially aware. I have great reservations about trusting anyone within the financial services sector and the pensions I built up during my career are SIPPs under my control and are serving me fine in my retirement. My problems with Crypto currencies are the lack of fall back. There is no asset cover behind them. We could get into a whole polemic regarding the security of currencies but they provide a relatively stable means of exchange. There are no such back ups to what are speculative crypto currencies. However, we are fortunate enough to live in a relatively free society where people can exchange currencies of various types. As with most speculative items those getting in early make the most. I wish you and others luck with your trading. Now back to cheering on the Whites at Everton. As an aside I used to be FD of a company in Liverpool and remember being taken for a meal at Everton and have never forgotten the sign in the100 club car park. "No ball games allowed on these premises" mind you that was in 1980

[General]

Andy, justify why you think it's a pyramid scheme? Would you classify gold or oil as pyramid schemes too?

Of course gold, diamonds etc are pyramid schemes too. The only thing with gold is that it is an element that comes from off of the planet so has some scarcity but they're all underpinned by an element of trust in their value, like currencies.. bitcoin and crypto won't be any different.

[General]

Dear Blingo. Lost my previous reply. I feel that as a member of an auguste Chartered Body and an MBA I'm reasonably financially aware. I have great reservations about trusting anyone within the financial services sector and the pensions I built up during my career are SIPPs under my control and are serving me fine in my retirement. My problems with Crypto currencies are the lack of fall back. There is no asset cover behind them. We could get into a whole polemic regarding the security of currencies but they provide a relatively stable means of exchange. There are no such back ups to what are speculative crypto currencies. However, we are fortunate enough to live in a relatively free society where people can exchange currencies of various types. As with most speculative items those getting in early make the most. I wish you and others luck with your trading. Now back to cheering on the Whites at Everton. As an aside I used to be FD of a company in Liverpool and remember being taken for a meal at Everton and have never forgotten the sign in the100 club car park. "No ball games allowed on these premises" mind you that was in 1980

I acknowledge you have a lot more experience and knowledge on finance then I do so won't claim to know more as you have seemingly dedicated a life to it, but I would like to challenge you here if that's ok... purely for two reasons. One, by default working in an industry does not mean we always comprehend it and its latest trends (not saying you don't but I'm sure if you've been around long enough you'd appreciate there's a spectrum).. secondly, you mentioned the lack of trust of people within the sector and also the lack of a fall back in crypto.. I'd argue/question then whats the difference. Plenty of people have been hurt and left financially poor despite having a pension and savings after a recession and have lost almost everything.. were it not for banks being bailed out, from baring bank to the bank of Glasgow to others then many more would have too. On top of which currencies currently are in an inflation/deflation/quantitive easing competition against one another... so with that lack of accountability or ability for those industries to lose significant assets or pile them up and concentrate wealth then where's the balance?

[Statto]

Page 3 and yet still no one has articulated in practical terms the advantages of this fantastic invention.

All I can see is a combination of misconceived clichés about how evil the global financial system is (spoiler: it isn't) and statements like "my son told me..." and "go read up on it." Sorry but those are the hallmarks of people not really understanding something.

When the mobile phone was invented you could tell people that it would allow them to make a phone call from any place, without having to find a phone box and some spare change. Simple... and genuinely useful.

[blingo]

Page 3 and yet still no one has articulated in practical terms the advantages of this fantastic invention.

All I can see is a combination of misconceived clichés about how evil the global financial system is (spoiler: it isn't) and statements like "my son told me..." and "go read up on it." Sorry but those are the hallmarks of people not really understanding something.

When the mobile phone was invented you could tell people that it would allow them to make a phone call from any place, without having to find a phone box and some spare change. Simple... and genuinely useful.

Hahahahaha you are funny Statto. My son has a degree in economics a masters in project analysis finance and investment has run stock floors in london has been a risk assesment manager for stock and betting companies and now works for the Financial Services Commision in Gib. He ensures that any company applying for a licence to trade any form of crypto from Gib and has to be fully aware of every aspect of the crypto market. He has to have top class knowledge of the topic the investment and everything to do with it. He is known as an expert in crypto.
As for telling you to go read up on something, i have always been of the opinion tht if you don't know what you are talking about then you really should go and learn about it and that would normally entail reading about the subject, really not difficult and extremely lazy on your part.

[General]

Page 3 and yet still no one has articulated in practical terms the advantages of this fantastic invention.

All I can see is a combination of misconceived clichés about how evil the global financial system is (spoiler: it isn't) and statements like "my son told me..." and "go read up on it." Sorry but those are the hallmarks of people not really understanding something.

When the mobile phone was invented you could tell people that it would allow them to make a phone call from any place, without having to find a phone box and some spare change. Simple... and genuinely useful.

These are some of the explanations i've picked up on, which people have said... it may not fully answer your question or may be inherently true, but th
On the financial side, it takes away a lot of the middle men which reduces fees and commercial risk factors - whether those be inflation of currencies or deflation to losing all assets in a recession and more simpler things like currency exchanges etc.

On another note, it allows for far faster payments, goes straight out of your own wallet, only you know about to the vendors you purchase items from. It is also meant to be far more secure... I've not tested this, but there are four of five encryption levels of complexity where you are in sole control of to access your finances.

People want that control. I believe there's also a grimace from people who don't necessarily have access to a huge amount of money that fees can see people in the financial sector earn more in a year than many may earn in their next 5-10-15 years or entire lifetime.

If anyone sees these comments - feel free to add or correct.

That just goes into the financial side on a top level... there's a lot more to be said too about the technology that enables it such as blockchain which is revolutionising many areas of industry.

[General]

I haven't watched this, but this guy, despite his rough and ready bearded look is the man who created two of the cryptocurrencies and seems pretty lucid about the whole thing. He also comes across in a very humble and inoffensive manner which makes him easy to digest. Watching a few of his videos will help explain what's going on ten times better than I can.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d8dChQV2WY

He created the second largest currency out there currently called Ethereum and has more recently established Cardano as a platform and its currency ADA

more information can be found on their website here...

https://cardano.org/what-is-ada/

[Statto]

Page 3 and yet still no one has articulated in practical terms the advantages of this fantastic invention.

All I can see is a combination of misconceived clichés about how evil the global financial system is (spoiler: it isn't) and statements like "my son told me..." and "go read up on it." Sorry but those are the hallmarks of people not really understanding something.

When the mobile phone was invented you could tell people that it would allow them to make a phone call from any place, without having to find a phone box and some spare change. Simple... and genuinely useful.

Hahahahaha you are funny Statto. My son has a degree in economics a masters in project analysis finance and investment has run stock floors in london has been a risk assesment manager for stock and betting companies and now works for the Financial Services Commision in Gib. He ensures that any company applying for a licence to trade any form of crypto from Gib and has to be fully aware of every aspect of the crypto market. He has to have top class knowledge of the topic the investment and everything to do with it. He is known as an expert in crypto.
As for telling you to go read up on something, i have always been of the opinion tht if you don't know what you are talking about then you really should go and learn about it and that would normally entail reading about the subject, really not difficult and extremely lazy on your part.

I've been hesitant to get into the CV/willy measuring but suffice to say your tone should be a little more humble.
Again another opportunity passes without you actually saying with any clarity or confidence why crypto will replace fiat currencies. Conclusion: you don't know.
General has touched on some issues but with all due respect most of it quite wishy washy and/or questionable.
Sorry but this whole topic reinforces my view that it's a bubble built on positive sentiment from people with a very limited understanding of what they're investing in.
The topic is turning sour and becoming circular now, plus the football has got interesting, so I'll leave it there.

[blingo]

I haven't said at any point that crypto will fully replace fiat have I? as for the cv, the "my son told me" comment was insulting and there was no need for it other than your trying to be smart.

Central bank digital currencies (CBDCs) will replace cash in the long term, according to Deutsche Bank's research team. The bank said the coronavirus pandemic has accelerated the use of digital payments over cash, and the trend will eventually lead to CBDCs taking over cash.Nov 13, 2020


https://bcfocus.com/could-cryptocurrency-replace-fiat-money/ Read that, it may give you an insight into something you clearly know nothing about.

ps. Great win tonight

[General]

I haven't said at any point that crypto will fully replace fiat have I? as for the cv, the "my son told me" comment was insulting and there was no need for it other than your trying to be smart.

Central bank digital currencies (CBDCs) will replace cash in the long term, according to Deutsche Bank's research team. The bank said the coronavirus pandemic has accelerated the use of digital payments over cash, and the trend will eventually lead to CBDCs taking over cash.Nov 13, 2020


https://bcfocus.com/could-cryptocurrency-replace-fiat-money/ Read that, it may give you an insight into something you clearly know nothing about.

ps. Great win tonight

Quite a few countries and that includes the EU have all discussed openly having a digital currency moving forward and are having those conversations proactively.

[Statto]

I haven't said at any point that crypto will fully replace fiat have I? as for the cv, the "my son told me" comment was insulting and there was no need for it other than your trying to be smart.

Central bank digital currencies (CBDCs) will replace cash in the long term, according to Deutsche Bank's research team. The bank said the coronavirus pandemic has accelerated the use of digital payments over cash, and the trend will eventually lead to CBDCs taking over cash.Nov 13, 2020


https://bcfocus.com/could-cryptocurrency-replace-fiat-money/ Read that, it may give you an insight into something you clearly know nothing about.

ps. Great win tonight

CBDC is fiat in electronic form, not an alternate crypto currency like Bitcoin
Could not have asked for a better illustration of my last post