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Road ahead

Started by LC, May 04, 2021, 01:49:30 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

LC

Win the next 4 games and stay up.

This is unlikely at this point so what is ahead for us. For me, I would look to have these players as a basis for our team next season: Rodak, Tete, Tosin, Robinson, Reed & BDR. Those players are young enough to improve and perform in the PL if we go back up.

Players who we have that can be a help to us in the championship: Hector (excellent for us when he arrived), Bryan (can play ahead of Robinson), Cairney (championship know how experience) and Mitrovic (top quality championship striker- still think he can get some PL goals but not a PL starter).

In my mind all the players listed above will stay if we want them to stay. We'll need to buy 5/6 players, mainly in midfield and our forward line.

What do you think we should do.

The Rational Fan

#1
Quote from: LC on May 04, 2021, 01:49:30 AM
[Reworded by TRF] Our XI team next season that will stay: Rodak; Tete, Hector, Tosin, Robinson; Reed, Cairney; Reid & Mitro and Bryan. In my mind all the players listed above will stay if we want them to stay. We'll need to buy 5/6 players, mainly in midfield and our forward line. What do you think we should do?

What we should do is "not sell our backup players" of Bett, Fabri; Christie, Odoi, Mawson, Kongolo, MLM, S.Sess; Seri, Anguissa, Stefjo, Onamah; Knockaert, Cav, Kamara, and Kebano. This squad should be able to rotate brilliantly throughout the season, we will score enough, conceding very few goals, hold on to any lead, and win the championship.

Most of these backup players (except Anguissa) will sell for almost nothing, and getting £2m wages off the books won't help us get a starter and I prefer our existing players as squad players to what you can buy for £2m (e.g. Malone). As for Anguissa, I'd hang out for the best price and if we sell him keep the money for the second half of the season.

Whitestone

We need to make space in the squad for six or seven new players who would be able make a good contribution if we were to promoted (that's assuming we are relegated in the first place!). Last season the club signed a bunch of good Championship players who have proved to be out of their depth in the Premier League. Cav, Reid and Knockhart for example. In order to prepare for another promotion push we must release some of the players listed by TRF above. There is absolutely no point in taking up options on any of the out of contract players so there's a start. It would be helpful to move on one or two others as well. This time the club should aim to be Premier League ready when promoted.


filham

All of the nails are now in our coffin ,Just the long drawn out funeral rights of the next four games to be lived through.

Time to think of a rebuild for next season so lets accept that seven loan players will be leaving for premier league places elsewhere or comfortable continental homes.

Lets see something different and more exciting in the next four games with the loan players discarded and chances given to the likes of Onamah ,Carvalo, Mitro, Bryan , Mitro and Rodac who could form part of our Championship team

Whitestone

Quote from: filham on May 04, 2021, 10:04:56 AM
All of the nails are now in our coffin ,Just the long drawn out funeral rights of the next four games to be lived through.

Time to think of a rebuild for next season so lets accept that seven loan players will be leaving for premier league places elsewhere or comfortable continental homes.

Lets see something different and more exciting in the next four games with the loan players discarded and chances given to the likes of Onamah ,Carvalo, Mitro, Bryan , Mitro and Rodac who could form part of our Championship team

Wow, you've just nailed down the coffin lid on something that's still breathing. Only just I know, but where there's hope you can expect the impossible every now and again.

We Are Premier League

I think we are a bit hard on some of the current players, particularly Reid, i think he and a few others could be part of a PL squad. Not as starters but as subs and for depth.

Realistically we will always have to buy/loan [6-8] new players when promoted, and most of them will have to be for the starting 11. We then need 17-19 players from the promotion squad to step up. If we say that the below list of 14 players are ok to be part of the PL squad, we need to buy about 3-5 players this season that have the potential to make the step up to the PL the following year. I addition to that, we need to replace any of the below that leaves (Mitro, Zambo etc.)

Rodak
Tete
Robinson
Hector
Tosin
Kongolo/Mawson
Bryan
Anguissa
Reed
Onomah
Cairney
Reid
Cavaleiro
Mitro





Bill2

Think we need to consider what the team should look like and what do we need.
I think we are good across the back, although if we don't keep Aina will need a right back unless we have a nugget in the u23 squad.
Midfield is where we will need something. Harrison Reed is the only one I think is fit for his role but the others not so sure. The reason for this is goals, we need a better return from this group.  TC will be back and he always contributes a few plus but the rest?

Lordedmundo

I see the core of the squad consisting of the following 15 players next season:

Rodak
Betts
Tete
Sessegnon
Hector
Tosin
Robinson
Bryan
Reed
Onomah
Cairney
Reid
Cavaleiro
Kebano
Mitrovic

The following players must be offloaded if possible:

Fabbri (need him off the wage bill)
Le Marchand (not good enough even at Championship level)
Ream (past his best)
Christie (we have enough at right back)
Seri (not suited to English football and need him off the wage bill)
Knockaert (hard working but totally lacking in end product)
Kamara (a liability in my opinion)
Johansen (deserves an opportunity elsewhere)

The following players to come in from the under 23's

Opoku
Carvalho
Jasper
Stansfield/Bowie

New signings to strengthen in key positions:

Centre Half (maybe Aina to re-sign on loan?)
Central midfielder (someone who can create and score goals - back-up for Cairney)
Central midfielder (back up for Reed)
Winger (replacement for Knockaert/alternative to Kebano/Cavaleiro)
Maja (or perhaps a pacier centre forward to play next to Mitro)

I think the club need to set a ceiling on the number of loans each season to just 2 or 3. It would be great if we could get Sess back as one of those loans.


LittleErn

Quote from: The Rational Fan on May 04, 2021, 06:50:24 AM
Quote from: LC on May 04, 2021, 01:49:30 AM
[Reworded by TRF] Our XI team next season that will stay: Rodak; Tete, Hector, Tosin, Robinson; Reed, Cairney; Reid & Mitro and Bryan. In my mind all the players listed above will stay if we want them to stay. We'll need to buy 5/6 players, mainly in midfield and our forward line. What do you think we should do?

What we should do is "not sell our backup players" of Bett, Fabri; Christie, Odoi, Mawson, Kongolo, MLM, S.Sess; Seri, Anguissa, Stefjo, Onamah; Knockaert, Cav, Kamara, and Kebano. This squad should be able to rotate brilliantly throughout the season, we will score enough, conceding very few goals, hold on to any lead, and win the championship.

Most of these backup players (except Anguissa) will sell for almost nothing, and getting £2m wages off the books won't help us get a starter and I prefer our existing players as squad players to what you can buy for £2m (e.g. Malone). As for Anguissa, I'd hang out for the best price and if we sell him keep the money for the second half of the season.

Where do you get the £2 million from? Is it from published figures? It works out to about £2500 per week averaged across all 16. Is that what a Premier league club pays to its backup players? I'm not saying you are wrong - I just  want to know where the figures come from.


The Rational Fan

#9
Quote from: LittleErn on May 05, 2021, 03:32:07 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on May 04, 2021, 06:50:24 AM
Quote from: LC on May 04, 2021, 01:49:30 AM
[Reworded by TRF] Our XI team next season that will stay: Rodak; Tete, Hector, Tosin, Robinson; Reed, Cairney; Reid & Mitro and Bryan. In my mind all the players listed above will stay if we want them to stay. We'll need to buy 5/6 players, mainly in midfield and our forward line. What do you think we should do?

What we should do is "not sell our backup players" of Bett, Fabri; Christie, Odoi, Mawson, Kongolo, MLM, S.Sess; Seri, Anguissa, Stefjo, Onamah; Knockaert, Cav, Kamara, and Kebano. This squad should be able to rotate brilliantly throughout the season, we will score enough, conceding very few goals, hold on to any lead, and win the championship.

Most of these backup players (except Anguissa) will sell for almost nothing, and getting £2m wages off the books won't help us get a starter and I prefer our existing players as squad players to what you can buy for £2m (e.g. Malone). As for Anguissa, I'd hang out for the best price and if we sell him keep the money for the second half of the season.

Where do you get the £2 million from? Is it from published figures? It works out to about £2500 per week averaged across all 16. Is that what a Premier league club pays to its backup players? I'm not saying you are wrong - I just  want to know where the figures come from.

£2m is an indicative amount of money we will save in wages for one player per year, if we sell that player for his "end of season book value". I choose £2m per year (£38,000 per week) because it is the reported wages of Knockaert who was just below the few highest wages of our players in 2018/19.

My point is £2m in saved wages for a player like Knockaert isn't going to go far, when player like Cav cost more than £10m plus wages. A lot of fans call our cheap players (or at least cheap for other clubs to buy) deadwood and conclude they must be sold. Unfortunately, he'll get sold for what he's worth which isn't enough to replace him.

The point is as much as I'd love to sell Knockaert for the price we bought him, he is worth keeping for the price we can sell him. And frankly, Knockaert is a decent winger apart from his assists and his finishing, so could be useful off the bench to protect a lead by dribbling the length of the field and then shooting the ball into Bishops Park.

LittleErn

Quote from: The Rational Fan on May 06, 2021, 03:28:24 AM
Quote from: LittleErn on May 05, 2021, 03:32:07 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on May 04, 2021, 06:50:24 AM
Quote from: LC on May 04, 2021, 01:49:30 AM
[Reworded by TRF] Our XI team next season that will stay: Rodak; Tete, Hector, Tosin, Robinson; Reed, Cairney; Reid & Mitro and Bryan. In my mind all the players listed above will stay if we want them to stay. We'll need to buy 5/6 players, mainly in midfield and our forward line. What do you think we should do?

What we should do is "not sell our backup players" of Bett, Fabri; Christie, Odoi, Mawson, Kongolo, MLM, S.Sess; Seri, Anguissa, Stefjo, Onamah; Knockaert, Cav, Kamara, and Kebano. This squad should be able to rotate brilliantly throughout the season, we will score enough, conceding very few goals, hold on to any lead, and win the championship.

Most of these backup players (except Anguissa) will sell for almost nothing, and getting £2m wages off the books won't help us get a starter and I prefer our existing players as squad players to what you can buy for £2m (e.g. Malone). As for Anguissa, I'd hang out for the best price and if we sell him keep the money for the second half of the season.

Where do you get the £2 million from? Is it from published figures? It works out to about £2500 per week averaged across all 16. Is that what a Premier league club pays to its backup players? I'm not saying you are wrong - I just  want to know where the figures come from.

£2m is an indicative amount of money we will save in wages for one player per year, if we sell that player for his "end of season book value". I choose £2m per year (£38,000 per week) because it is the reported wages of Knockaert who was just below the few highest wages of our players in 2018/19.

My point is £2m in saved wages for a player like Knockaert isn't going to go far, when player like Cav cost more than £10m plus wages. A lot of fans call our cheap players (or at least cheap for other clubs to buy) deadwood and conclude they must be sold. Unfortunately, he'll get sold for what he's worth which isn't enough to replace him.

The point is as much as I'd love to sell Knockaert for the price we bought him, he is worth keeping for the price we can sell him. And frankly, Knockaert is a decent winger apart from his assists and his finishing, so could be useful off the bench to protect a lead by dribbling the length of the field and then shooting the ball into Bishops Park.

Ah. I see it all now (some of it). So you mean we could save £2million on each of them. That's up to £32 million in total. In fact, I think there are about 7 of those you named who we could off-load without weakening the squad too much. So, £14 million of wages saved plus whatever we get for them (I doubt it would be nothing). If we got £10 million for them then we would have "saved" £24 million over the season. We might get one good player for that?

We Are Premier League

Quote from: LittleErn on May 06, 2021, 05:46:46 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on May 06, 2021, 03:28:24 AM
Quote from: LittleErn on May 05, 2021, 03:32:07 PM
Quote from: The Rational Fan on May 04, 2021, 06:50:24 AM
Quote from: LC on May 04, 2021, 01:49:30 AM
[Reworded by TRF] Our XI team next season that will stay: Rodak; Tete, Hector, Tosin, Robinson; Reed, Cairney; Reid & Mitro and Bryan. In my mind all the players listed above will stay if we want them to stay. We'll need to buy 5/6 players, mainly in midfield and our forward line. What do you think we should do?

What we should do is "not sell our backup players" of Bett, Fabri; Christie, Odoi, Mawson, Kongolo, MLM, S.Sess; Seri, Anguissa, Stefjo, Onamah; Knockaert, Cav, Kamara, and Kebano. This squad should be able to rotate brilliantly throughout the season, we will score enough, conceding very few goals, hold on to any lead, and win the championship.

Most of these backup players (except Anguissa) will sell for almost nothing, and getting £2m wages off the books won't help us get a starter and I prefer our existing players as squad players to what you can buy for £2m (e.g. Malone). As for Anguissa, I'd hang out for the best price and if we sell him keep the money for the second half of the season.

Where do you get the £2 million from? Is it from published figures? It works out to about £2500 per week averaged across all 16. Is that what a Premier league club pays to its backup players? I'm not saying you are wrong - I just  want to know where the figures come from.

£2m is an indicative amount of money we will save in wages for one player per year, if we sell that player for his "end of season book value". I choose £2m per year (£38,000 per week) because it is the reported wages of Knockaert who was just below the few highest wages of our players in 2018/19.

My point is £2m in saved wages for a player like Knockaert isn't going to go far, when player like Cav cost more than £10m plus wages. A lot of fans call our cheap players (or at least cheap for other clubs to buy) deadwood and conclude they must be sold. Unfortunately, he'll get sold for what he's worth which isn't enough to replace him.

The point is as much as I'd love to sell Knockaert for the price we bought him, he is worth keeping for the price we can sell him. And frankly, Knockaert is a decent winger apart from his assists and his finishing, so could be useful off the bench to protect a lead by dribbling the length of the field and then shooting the ball into Bishops Park.

Ah. I see it all now (some of it). So you mean we could save £2million on each of them. That's up to £32 million in total. In fact, I think there are about 7 of those you named who we could off-load without weakening the squad too much. So, £14 million of wages saved plus whatever we get for them (I doubt it would be nothing). If we got £10 million for them then we would have "saved" £24 million over the season. We might get one good player for that?

Its unfortunately not that simple, you also have to consider how much of the transfer fee for those players that we still are to amortise. Fro example, if you give Cav away for free it will probably cost of about 6m since that is what i would guess that we still have left to amortise. For the same reason, we have not been able to offload Ser until this season since it woudl have been to expensive to take all that cot in one seasons, by keeping him on the books we could spread the cost over a longer period.


rebel

Quote from: Lordedmundo on May 05, 2021, 01:54:09 PM
I see the core of the squad consisting of the following 15 players next season:

Rodak
Betts
Tete
Sessegnon
Hector
Tosin
Robinson
Bryan
Reed
Onomah
Cairney
Reid
Cavaleiro
Kebano
Mitrovic

The following players must be offloaded if possible:

Fabbri (need him off the wage bill)
Le Marchand (not good enough even at Championship level)
Ream (past his best)
Christie (we have enough at right back)
Seri (not suited to English football and need him off the wage bill)
Knockaert (hard working but totally lacking in end product)
Kamara (a liability in my opinion)
Johansen (deserves an opportunity elsewhere)

The following players to come in from the under 23's

Opoku
Carvalho
Jasper
Stansfield/Bowie

New signings to strengthen in key positions:

Centre Half (maybe Aina to re-sign on loan?)
Central midfielder (someone who can create and score goals - back-up for Cairney)
Central midfielder (back up for Reed)
Winger (replacement for Knockaert/alternative to Kebano/Cavaleiro)
Maja (or perhaps a pacier centre forward to play next to Mitro)

I think the club need to set a ceiling on the number of loans each season to just 2 or 3. It would be great if we could get Sess back as one of those loans.



I think Kamara got sent off for Dijon; so the loan is going well.

AJW48361

More exciting than this season.