Jokanovic would have kept this side up

[rebel]

He's managing in Qatar not the Prem or even the championship. No English team has taken him on. There's a reason for that

He had offers from clubs in England at the time. Probably wanted a break from the 'madness'.

[blingo]

He's managing in Qatar not the Prem or even the championship. No English team has taken him on. There's a reason for that

He had offers from clubs in England at the time. Probably wanted a break from the 'madness'.

The money being pretty good over there may also have been a factor.

[MartyFFC]

It's absolutely criminal the way Slav was binned off so early in the season, yet we have to endure an entire season and probably beyond of Parker Ball 😴

[toshes mate]

We all know Joka did a great job in the championship, he was less than convincing in the Prem. However, it needs to be remembered that he constantly snipped at the Khans & refused to sign a new contract. As I remember it, wasn't  he supposed to have been overheard negotiating with another club too. Sadly he's gone let's move on.

And you are not just sniping at 'Joka' because he was more professional than either of the Khans will ever be I hope.  You are just having a laugh I hope.

[toshes mate]

He's managing in Qatar not the Prem or even the championship. No English team has taken him on. There's a reason for that

He had offers from clubs in England at the time. Probably wanted a break from the 'madness'.

The money being pretty good over there may also have been a factor.

Jokanovic absolutely knows where he is not really wanted.  He was far too shrewd a football professional to be tricked by the seemingly amateur tactics of FFC during his time here.

[Woolly Mammoth]

Joka never got the chance to try and keep the team he got promoted because he was sacked by of all people Tony Khan who clearly had forgotten the advice about when in a hole stop digging.
So an amateur sacks a professional for issues not relating to football at a football club not only because he is vindictive, but to cover up his own shortcomings, because he has to have a fall guy.
Yes Tony Khan who brought in his best mate and then tried to cover up for him until his ex best mate fell on his own sword on an autumn afternoon at MP.

[toshes mate]

Our promotion season under Jokanovic produced some of the best football I can remember our team playing. I would have kept him on longer. However his success was in the championship not the PL. It takes time to build a new team and Jokanovic didnt prove that as his strength in double quick time.

Everyone of Jokanovic's full seasons was first half not so good, second half much better.  Parker's improved performances occured from the middle of the season but has proved unsustainable suggesting building a team that maintains its thrust takes a considerable time unless outfield players take to their task immediately (examples Aluko, Malone, Targett, Mitro, Andersen etc). 

We also have problems  scoring goals because we both lack quality up front and are also set up with offensive players who work hard for the team but dont offer enough creatively  or in putting the chances that we create in the back of the net.

To score goals you have to create both chances and half chances with the former being much more productive than the latter.   If a team has a low conversion rate it falls upon the coach to find ways of increasing the chances numbers in order to produce goals until the conversion rate improves.  Jokanovic had the skill factor to do it.  Parker hasn't.   What neither manager could do was to stop the flow of goals against when points were needed.  Jokanovic was never given the chance to prove himself in the PL; Parker has been and he has been found lacking.  It is an opinion whether or not Jokanovic given the chance of a whole season would have lifted FFC up the table.  Parker is one defeat away from failure to do so.   

[colinwhite]

The problem is that taking the step up to the premiership from the championship is primarily about keeping it tight and not giving much away,whilst taking your chances when they come along. The stats show we have created  plenty of chances but havent converted them.

Jokas football was fantastic at championship level and if he had managed a top six side I believe he would have been very successful. But to manage a side that doesnt have the quality of most of your rivals whilst playing an offensive football with lots of possession and both full backs getting forward at the same time was a recipe for disaster for a team like us at worst and would have taken a season or two to establish at best.

[toshes mate]

Something is only a recipe for disaster when it doen't work.  There are ways of overcoming the differences in quality for team who end up in the lower half of the table.  Some set up with tight defence; some set up with potent attacks; some set up with powerful midfields, gritty defences, and sufficent potency to score goals.  It is what works for a team that all managers look for just as a chef plays around with a recipe that brings customers in.  Parker is not showing flare in management at all in neither Championship nor PL.   He appears to have become clueless and feckless to me and I have been one of those who has banged the drum for him being given time.  IMHO his time has run out.

[Whitestone]

We should have stuck with Jokanovic for exactly the same reason we should stick with Parker. Success doesn't come overnight and managers need more time than they are routinely given, unless it's glaringly obvious that things have gone pear shaped as in the case of Felix McGath.

[colinwhite]

Something is only a recipe for disaster when it doen't work.  There are ways of overcoming the differences in quality for team who end up in the lower half of the table.  Some set up with tight defence; some set up with potent attacks; some set up with powerful midfields, gritty defences, and sufficent potency to score goals.  It is what works for a team that all managers look for just as a chef plays around with a recipe that brings customers in.  Parker is not showing flare in management at all in neither Championship nor PL.   He appears to have become clueless and feckless to me and I have been one of those who has banged the drum for him being given time.  IMHO his time has run out.

If you concede goals for fun it doesnt matter how much flair your team or manager has. Possession and goals are not usually at a premium for teams in the lower half of the PL . Good ,solid defenses are. Forget Parker ,I thought we were discussing Jokanovic .He wanted us to be brave in the PL which is fine ,but he didnt strike me as the sort of manager to compromise his philosophy or change the way he wanted his team to play. Is this football nous or naivity ?,Take your pick .

[WindyCity]

Plenty of weird topics lately "would have, should have could have..."
Next please.

Bingo that!!!  Next please for sure....

It's funny, usually you hear all the woulda, coulda, shouldas when discussing a poor team, poor results.  Fits the bill with FFC this season.  Very disappointing........

[Asotosyios]

Something is only a recipe for disaster when it doen't work.  There are ways of overcoming the differences in quality for team who end up in the lower half of the table.  Some set up with tight defence; some set up with potent attacks; some set up with powerful midfields, gritty defences, and sufficent potency to score goals.  It is what works for a team that all managers look for just as a chef plays around with a recipe that brings customers in.  Parker is not showing flare in management at all in neither Championship nor PL.   He appears to have become clueless and feckless to me and I have been one of those who has banged the drum for him being given time.  IMHO his time has run out.

If you concede goals for fun it doesnt matter how much flair your team or manager has. Possession and goals are not usually at a premium for teams in the lower half of the PL . Good ,solid defenses are. Forget Parker ,I thought we were discussing Jokanovic .He wanted us to be brave in the PL which is fine ,but he didnt strike me as the sort of manager to compromise his philosophy or change the way he wanted his team to play. Is this football nous or naivity ?,Take your pick .

It might be naivety, it might be style of play, it might be arrogance, it might be trust in yourself and your team - take your pick.

What I saw in the 2 1/2 years with Jokanovic (perhaps not so much on his first half year, but from his first full season) was that Fulham had an identity. We were an attacking, entertaining team with (a few or a lot) defensive problems. In those two Championship years, Jokanovic built something and it made sense to me that he would continue to build something of the same mould but with better materials in the Premier League (perhaps I am naive too or just romantic). It didn't start well, but it might have or have not worked at the end - we will never know. To say though that we should have changed our style completely in the PL is something I cannot agree with.

I understand that we have to be realistic and the PL level is way higher than the Championship. However, we have to continue building and trust our identity. Otherwise, what's the point getting in the PL if our only purpose is to defend, defend, defend and have no attacking threat (does that remind you of anything?)? As for "your team's or manager's flair doesn't matter, if you concede lots of goals", I will reply: have a look at Leeds this year. They have done very well and are enjoyable to watch in their own unrealistic style or identity while having a worse defence than us.

Jokanovic was not perfect (who is?) and neither our football was always perfect. That performance at the 1-0 loss at Huddersfield was atrocious and we had bad games in the Championship as well. Overall though, he had a plan and knew how to install it and gave an identity to the team that everyone loved - the players, the fans, other clubs' fans, the pundits. When a manager is remember so fondly by the vast majority of the fans and when everyone agreed that Fulham was playing the best football in the Championship for two years in a row, then that manager must have been doing something well. So, calling him naive is just plainly wrong in my opinion.

[colinwhite]

Well actually I didnt call him naive ,and his vision of the team and how he wanted to play worked very well in the championship where we had players that were better than the teams we played against for the most part. We went up via the play-offs which was ahuge achievement in many`s eyes for Slavisa whilst Parkers play-off victory has been hailed by several on this thread as an underachievment ,despite the fact that we bounced back into the PL at the first attempt.
I am not sure that you do understand the meaning of coming up into the premier league and being realistic. For the record i would much rather watch Jokanovics team play than Parkers ,at least in the championship. But when it comes to his brief spell in the PL , Slavisa  was extremely naive. The game against Spurs away and Arsenal at home  spring to mind  when we tried to press these teams high and dominate possession ,and we got slaughtered as a result,despite playing some great football in those matches as well.
As far as identity is concerned there is the dilema for any manager taking over Fulham in the championship. A dominant season with lots of the ball is not  necessarily a recipe for success in th PL,where there is ahuge difference  in the playing level . Leeds have done it but they are the exception rather than the rule.

[rebel]

Something is only a recipe for disaster when it doen't work.  There are ways of overcoming the differences in quality for team who end up in the lower half of the table.  Some set up with tight defence; some set up with potent attacks; some set up with powerful midfields, gritty defences, and sufficent potency to score goals.  It is what works for a team that all managers look for just as a chef plays around with a recipe that brings customers in.  Parker is not showing flare in management at all in neither Championship nor PL.   He appears to have become clueless and feckless to me and I have been one of those who has banged the drum for him being given time.  IMHO his time has run out.

If you concede goals for fun it doesnt matter how much flair your team or manager has. Possession and goals are not usually at a premium for teams in the lower half of the PL . Good ,solid defenses are. Forget Parker ,I thought we were discussing Jokanovic .He wanted us to be brave in the PL which is fine ,but he didnt strike me as the sort of manager to compromise his philosophy or change the way he wanted his team to play. Is this football nous or naivity ?,Take your pick .

It might be naivety, it might be style of play, it might be arrogance, it might be trust in yourself and your team - take your pick.

What I saw in the 2 1/2 years with Jokanovic (perhaps not so much on his first half year, but from his first full season) was that Fulham had an identity. We were an attacking, entertaining team with (a few or a lot) defensive problems. In those two Championship years, Jokanovic built something and it made sense to me that he would continue to build something of the same mould but with better materials in the Premier League (perhaps I am naive too or just romantic). It didn't start well, but it might have or have not worked at the end - we will never know. To say though that we should have changed our style completely in the PL is something I cannot agree with.

I understand that we have to be realistic and the PL level is way higher than the Championship. However, we have to continue building and trust our identity. Otherwise, what's the point getting in the PL if our only purpose is to defend, defend, defend and have no attacking threat (does that remind you of anything?)? As for "your team's or manager's flair doesn't matter, if you concede lots of goals", I will reply: have a look at Leeds this year. They have done very well and are enjoyable to watch in their own unrealistic style or identity while having a worse defence than us.

Jokanovic was not perfect (who is?) and neither our football was always perfect. That performance at the 1-0 loss at Huddersfield was atrocious and we had bad games in the Championship as well. Overall though, he had a plan and knew how to install it and gave an identity to the team that everyone loved - the players, the fans, other clubs' fans, the pundits. When a manager is remember so fondly by the vast majority of the fans and when everyone agreed that Fulham was playing the best football in the Championship for two years in a row, then that manager must have been doing something well. So, calling him naive is just plainly wrong in my opinion.

I think Joka would have built something in the Prem, his style of football wouldn't have changed.
Much like Leeds have done this season. But was he given the best environment and tools to do the job? No
He had no pre-season, we were still signing players with no Premiership experience as the season was well underway, there was a lot of other stuff too.

[The Rational Fan]

We should have stuck with Jokanovic for exactly the same reason we should stick with Parker. Success doesn't come overnight and managers need more time than they are routinely given, unless it's glaringly obvious that things have gone pear shaped as in the case of Felix McGath.

Parker has a stronger case to stay than Slavisa, because Parker has signed a three year contract giving him enough time to get us relegated, promoted and 17th in EPL.

Slavisa was not prepared to commit to staying and probably would have left us mid season in the Championship with his typical bad first half that only he could get us promoted from that position.

You are correct that success doesn't come overnight. I always noted Knockaert, Reid and Cav full second season in the Championship for their first clubs was an improvement on their first season.

Frankly, Reid and Cav look better than last season but they are always going to struggle against good defenders even top championship defenders, but I expect them to score freely against the weaker championship teams now they are use to the team.

[toshes mate]

Well actually I didnt call him naive ,and his vision of the team and how he wanted to play worked very well in the championship where we had players that were better than the teams we played against for the most part. We went up via the play-offs which was ahuge achievement in many`s eyes for Slavisa whilst Parkers play-off victory has been hailed by several on this thread as an underachievment ,despite the fact that we bounced back into the PL at the first attempt.
I am not sure that you do understand the meaning of coming up into the premier league and being realistic. For the record i would much rather watch Jokanovics team play than Parkers ,at least in the championship. But when it comes to his brief spell in the PL , Slavisa  was extremely naive. The game against Spurs away and Arsenal at home  spring to mind  when we tried to press these teams high and dominate possession ,and we got slaughtered as a result,despite playing some great football in those matches as well.
As far as identity is concerned there is the dilema for any manager taking over Fulham in the championship. A dominant season with lots of the ball is not  necessarily a recipe for success in th PL,where there is ahuge difference  in the playing level . Leeds have done it but they are the exception rather than the rule.

Let me put all this in a more logical way for you Colin as you seem entrenched with what works for other coaches and /or elsewhere on the football scene when we are concerned only with what works at Fulham. 

After several false starts under the Khans we found a manager (Jokanovic) who actually knew his business.  Let's call his business building houses.  His first effort was pretty good but he couldn't quite finish things off because one or two components failed under pressure.  His second effort was very good although he had to rely on replacement material half way through the enterprise.  The finished article was, however, fit for purpose.  He was then asked to build a bigger and better house by his contractor but the material provided by the latter was all over the place because the buyer was an idiot.  As before the builder didn't want to mess the foundations up, but some components were broken beyond repair and others were plainly not the right parts at all.   But he stuck to his task and whilst it was hard and thankless work he was starting to find the answers when the contractor pulled the plug on him.  Regardless of this action by the contractor the building fell down immediately on completion.  Who do you think a public enquiry might say was to blame for the collapse?     

[colinwhite]

or put another way ... a second buider came along with the  same contractor and with the same buyer in place (a bit wiser than before ). all went ok with the first house although there were some teathing problems ,and when asked to build a second house,he too stuck to his task but lacked a few vital elements in terms of materials .. but he struggled on without too much complaining and although not completed, his building looks like falling down too. But in this case it was all clearly the builder`s fault and lots of people who were fed up and bored with the whole thing, didnt even think they needed a public enquiry!!!

Not a great fan of argument by anlagogy........ and it had bugger all to do with what was being discussed.

[toshes mate]

Not a great fan of argument by anlagogy........ and it had bugger all to do with what was being discussed.

And you, Sir, are an expert on bugger all.

[ScalleysDad]

Football has moved on quite a bit but why is it that the Joka debate keeps flaring up. We had about six months of good times but as I recall we were awful at the time he was dismissed, there was a general consensus that the workplace had become almost toxic, there were stories of dressing room disputes, Joka himself looked almost frail and bemused at the press conferences and as at Watford the realisation was that 'it' was not going to work. Had he stayed who knows, Ranieri might never have featured perhaps, but the way relationships were breaking down it was always going to be just a matter of time.