“Parkerball”: Premier League vs Championship

[clarkey]

Last time we scraped into the Prem in the play offs in the last minute of extra time.

We should have walked it. Our squad was the best in the league.

Parker's "style" was ultra cautious and boring to watch. Side to side.It was proved it was wrong statistically.

Please be a bit more ambitious. He is a terrible coach/manager.Let him learn elsewhere.

[S.F.Sorrow]

Not sure I know what Parkerball is.Last time around it got us promotion so Im not sure why that would be considered unsuccessful. Do you mean the sitting back and being direct on the counter ,that we showed against Liverpool home and away  ,Everton ,Spurs home and away  ,Leceister ,Man utd,or the possession based football with little cutting edge that we ended up playing when teams sat back on us at the cottage  ? The point Im making is that to play successfully the the Pl you have to be adaptable. Bielsa did well this year but may get found out next season,that happens in the PL !!
This Parkerball idea is a bit of a joke . Parker may not be perfect but he adapted his tactics very successfully on many occassions this season ,which is conveniently forgotton already by those after his sacking. I think he may well still get the bullet,but if he doesnt then its going to be a matter of freshening up our attacking options.  As far as taking it to the next level is concerned that was a problem that Slavisa had as well so I dont really undersrand why its only Parker who gets stick for that!

Agreed! Contrary to popular belief Parker has actually been quite good at adapting his tactics this season. At least against the better teams.

Unfortunately Parker's tactics rarerly seem optimal against the poorer defensive minded teams, when we dominate possession. He did get us promoted last time but not in a very convincing way. I can easily see us averaging over 60% possession next season and still not get the points we need for promotion. Lots of 0-0 draws may keep us out of the relegation zone but it won't get us promoted. In the Championship we need to find a way to break down teams with 10 men behind the ball. Mitro has been our solution to this problem in the past but if Parker is here next season I have a feeling Mitro won't be (or at least he won't be 'on fire' unless we start playing to his strengths).

Agree with alot of that. BUT  there is one point which keeps coming up (im not saying its you ). As top scorer in the championship last time around I think we can agree that ,we played to Mitros strengths.  Playing to Mitros strengths is not about playing the ball behind defenses or playing the ball over the top to him to run the channels or get in behind on the break ,as he is  too slow and immobile for this.
Having possession in the opponents half and creating situations where we can play into his feet or find situations where we can put balls into the box for him to get on the end of is what he needs.If thats not Parkerball then I dont know what is.
So the idea that we should start playing to Mitros strengths ,whilst getting rid of Parkerball by being more direct ,doesnt make alot of sence to me

I was thinking more about using (and signing) the right type of players for a Mitro friendly version of Parkerball. Robinson seems incapable of delivering  the crosses Mitro wants and will effectively change the tactics completely, even when in theory it's the same formation. But yeah, you make a lot of good points.

[RaySmith]

Not sure I know what Parkerball is.Last time around it got us promotion so Im not sure why that would be considered unsuccessful. Do you mean the sitting back and being direct on the counter ,that we showed against Liverpool home and away  ,Everton ,Spurs home and away  ,Leceister ,Man utd,or the possession based football with little cutting edge that we ended up playing when teams sat back on us at the cottage  ? The point Im making is that to play successfully the the Pl you have to be adaptable. Bielsa did well this year but may get found out next season,that happens in the PL !!
This Parkerball idea is a bit of a joke . Parker may not be perfect but he adapted his tactics very successfully on many occassions this season ,which is conveniently forgotton already by those after his sacking. I think he may well still get the bullet,but if he doesnt then its going to be a matter of freshening up our attacking options.  As far as taking it to the next level is concerned that was a problem that Slavisa had as well so I dont really undersrand why its only Parker who gets stick for that!

Agreed! Contrary to popular belief Parker has actually been quite good at adapting his tactics this season. At least against the better teams.

Unfortunately Parker's tactics rarerly seem optimal against the poorer defensive minded teams, when we dominate possession. He did get us promoted last time but not in a very convincing way. I can easily see us averaging over 60% possession next season and still not get the points we need for promotion. Lots of 0-0 draws may keep us out of the relegation zone but it won't get us promoted. In the Championship we need to find a way to break down teams with 10 men behind the ball. Mitro has been our solution to this problem in the past but if Parker is here next season I have a feeling Mitro won't be (or at least he won't be 'on fire' unless we start playing to his strengths).

Agree with alot of that. BUT  there is one point which keeps coming up (im not saying its you ). As top scorer in the championship last time around I think we can agree that ,we played to Mitros strengths.  Playing to Mitros strengths is not about playing the ball behind defenses or playing the ball over the top to him to run the channels or get in behind on the break ,as he is  too slow and immobile for this.
Having possession in the opponents half and creating situations where we can play into his feet or find situations where we can put balls into the box for him to get on the end of is what he needs.If thats not Parkerball then I dont know what is.
So the idea that we should start playing to Mitros strengths ,whilst getting rid of Parkerball by being more direct ,doesnt make alot of sence to me

I was thinking more about using (and signing) the right type of players for a Mitro friendly version of Parkerball. Robinson seems incapable of delivering  the crosses Mitro wants and will effectively change the tactics completely, even when in theory it's the same formation. But yeah, you make a lot of good points.

Good points.
Mitro will find it a lot easier to score in the Champ., and we will be much more successful in supplying him with the right service.

[blingo]

Last time we scraped into the Prem in the play offs in the last minute of extra time.

We should have walked it. Our squad was the best in the league.

Parker's "style" was ultra cautious and boring to watch. Side to side.It was proved it was wrong statistically.




Please be a bit more ambitious. He is a terrible coach/manager.Let him learn elsewhere.

Well said Sir.

[Whitestone]

Last time we scraped into the Prem in the play offs in the last minute of extra time.

We should have walked it. Our squad was the best in the league.

Parker's "style" was ultra cautious and boring to watch. Side to side.It was proved it was wrong statistically.

Please be a bit more ambitious. He is a terrible coach/manager.Let him learn elsewhere.

I agree regarding our style of play under Parker. It has largely been mind numbingly boring but I think it's a bit of myth about our squad. It was decent for the Championship but no way was it the best in the league and as a result contributed to the style of play adopted by Parker.

[colinwhite]

Last time we scraped into the Prem in the play offs in the last minute of extra time.

We should have walked it. Our squad was the best in the league.

Parker's "style" was ultra cautious and boring to watch. Side to side.It was proved it was wrong statistically.

Please be a bit more ambitious. He is a terrible coach/manager.Let him learn elsewhere.

Best squad  in the championship? You really have to stop using that as argument. We did not have the best squad in the championship. We had a lot of players like cavaleiro who you have slated on many occasions for being useless.  Leeds were far better than us as they have proved again this season

I am very ambitious for our club. Not sure about Parker to be honest but  it comes down to alternatives . Parker got us relegated and should go. We should get in Howe or Dyche they are decent managers . Oh wait a minute they have both been relegated too. Howe twice .

[blingo]

Last time we scraped into the Prem in the play offs in the last minute of extra time.

We should have walked it. Our squad was the best in the league.

Parker's "style" was ultra cautious and boring to watch. Side to side.It was proved it was wrong statistically.

Please be a bit more ambitious. He is a terrible coach/manager.Let him learn elsewhere.

Best squad  in the championship? You really have to stop using that as argument. We did not have the best squad in the championship. We had a lot of players like cavaleiro who you have slated on many occasions for being useless.  Leeds were far better than us as they have proved again this season

The difference is the manager Colin. The squad was good enough to stay up.

[rebel]

Whatever happens we need to bring in pace.

Pace only matters if we are going to move the ball quickly, we are so slow in our build up, we allow opposition defence to reset themselves. We telegraph everything we do, opposition managers just has to 'negate Parkerball', it's so easy.

[Statto]

Last time we scraped into the Prem in the play offs in the last minute of extra time.

We should have walked it. Our squad was the best in the league.

Parker's "style" was ultra cautious and boring to watch. Side to side.It was proved it was wrong statistically.

Please be a bit more ambitious. He is a terrible coach/manager.Let him learn elsewhere.

Best squad  in the championship? You really have to stop using that as argument. We did not have the best squad in the championship. We had a lot of players like cavaleiro who you have slated on many occasions for being useless.  Leeds were far better than us as they have proved again this season

The difference is the manager Colin. The squad was good enough to stay up.

Bielsa is overhyped slightly IMO but that Leeds squad was no better than ours when we were in the Championship, possibly they then recruited better but still not much in it

[Ruislip White]

How are we defining 'Parker Ball'.  For me it's aimless possession which lacks purpose and takes a few risks in our own half only, for no real upside.  Combined with a lack of desire to turn play over or counter quickly when we dispossess opponents. 
If this is how the OP sees it - I really hope we don't go back to it or we'll be dull to watch and overly dependant on the individual brilliance of 1 or players to get us to the play offs.

[Somerset Fulham]

How are we defining 'Parker Ball'.  For me it's aimless possession which lacks purpose and takes a few risks in our own half only, for no real upside.  Combined with a lack of desire to turn play over or counter quickly when we dispossess opponents. 
If this is how the OP sees it - I really hope we don't go back to it or we'll be dull to watch and overly dependant on the individual brilliance of 1 or players to get us to the play offs.

That's the thing, really.

This Parkerball has been given life here without it having any actual meaning, so it has been interpreted by anyone as what they want to see. And as such has become a nickname for basically, when we play badly.

Now, we may play badly quite a lot and that is fair, but the 'Parkerball' tag is a load of absolute bollocks. Really pointless bollocks. It literally doesn't exist.

[Penfold]

How are we defining 'Parker Ball'.  For me it's aimless possession which lacks purpose and takes a few risks in our own half only, for no real upside.  Combined with a lack of desire to turn play over or counter quickly when we dispossess opponents. 
If this is how the OP sees it - I really hope we don't go back to it or we'll be dull to watch and overly dependant on the individual brilliance of 1 or players to get us to the play offs.

That's the thing, really.

This Parkerball has been given life here without it having any actual meaning, so it has been interpreted by anyone as what they want to see. And as such has become a nickname for basically, when we play badly.

Now, we may play badly quite a lot and that is fair, but the 'Parkerball' tag is a load of absolute bollocks. Really pointless bollocks. It literally doesn't exist.

Well, it might not for you, but I am one of the people who, if told, you can go back to Craven Cottage to watch Fulham, would say 'is Parker coach?'. If told yes, I would let someone else go. I cannot believe the hold Parker has over a large amount of our fanbase.

[Statto]

How are we defining 'Parker Ball'.  For me it's aimless possession which lacks purpose and takes a few risks in our own half only, for no real upside.  Combined with a lack of desire to turn play over or counter quickly when we dispossess opponents. 
If this is how the OP sees it - I really hope we don't go back to it or we'll be dull to watch and overly dependant on the individual brilliance of 1 or players to get us to the play offs.

That's the thing, really.

This Parkerball has been given life here without it having any actual meaning, so it has been interpreted by anyone as what they want to see. And as such has become a nickname for basically, when we play badly.

Now, we may play badly quite a lot and that is fair, but the 'Parkerball' tag is a load of absolute bollocks. Really pointless bollocks. It literally doesn't exist.

Ruislip's summary is perfect for me and I expect broadly consistent with what most people using the term have in mind

[RaySmith]

Surely it all comes down to results - who complains if the team is successful and we win?
But not winning, being unsuccessful, and the the way we play is all wrong, boring.

Parker was hailed for his tactical  acumen when we beat Leicester, Liverpool, Everton away.

A good manager  pays to the strengths of the players available to him -  that's why  Big Sam is a successful manager.
Many, snobbishly I think, hate the style of his teams, but look at his record - he gets results with teams and players, that seem above their actual individual ability.
He kept Bolton the Prem for all those years - where are they now?

Has Parker done this? Fulham weren't a Prem quality outfit this time round. Certainly not at the start of the season, but after  new players were brought in, we were defensively, but definitely not in attack - with only one recognised goal scorer - with a record of doing that, who was off form, ill/unfit, didn't fit in the with the   style of the team.
But I don't know the answer to my question.

All I can say is that Parker did seem to be turning things round, with some notable performances, and we looked far more competitive than last time we were in the Prem, but it obviously all went wrong, though in our last games we got a point at Arsenal and a point at Man U, and it was only awful  reffing that prevented us getting 3 points in both games - though our good performances against top sides make our failure even more frustrating maybe.

I think the truth isn't black and white, but somewhere in the middle.

Parker has his faults, and maybe his tactics were too cautious at times, but if we could have  taken even half the scoring chances we created, and with better reffing, with terrible decisions costing us  so many points, we  could well have stayed up.
There was also Covid at the club.

Slav also had his faults, and  we seemed too open and  attacking under him to survive in the Prem, with the players we had.

The truth is, both managers were hampered with lack of the RIGHT investment in the playing squad, for whatever reasons, and FFP played a part, as well as failings in recruitment.

[The Rational Fan]

I would love to watch Parkerball played by Pep's Barcelona squad. The players aren't good enough to excite Parkerball in the premier league, but can they look like Barcelona in the championship. Maybe.

[MJG]

Parkerball=Possession based football played from the back but without any real attacking plan once into the final third.
A reliance on individual ability in the final third to produce a chance or score a goal.
Game plan is to keep tight and hope to take the lead. If in the lead with around 15 minutes to go then try to shut up shop and reduce attacking options and hold out for the three points.
Instructions are to not lose the ball and go back if required and play at walking pace.
Inverted wingers, one person as mobile striker(or someone who runs around a lot), full back are main focal point for crosses.

In a nutshell, pick a team, keep the ball, hope to score and then everyone defend.

[colinwhite]

Parkerball=Possession based football played from the back but without any real attacking plan once into the final third.
A reliance on individual ability in the final third to produce a chance or score a goal.
Game plan is to keep tight and hope to take the lead. If in the lead with around 15 minutes to go then try to shut up shop and reduce attacking options and hold out for the three points.
Instructions are to not lose the ball and go back if required and play at walking pace.
Inverted wingers, one person as mobile striker(or someone who runs around a lot), full back are main focal point for crosses.

In a nutshell, pick a team, keep the ball, hope to score and then everyone defend.

see what your saying but thats not how we played when we got results last year. Instead we played out directly from the back ,sometimes early and bypassing our midfield to runners into the channels. More importantly ,out of possession we pressed with purpose and often high turning over the the top sides like Spurs, leicester and Liverpool ,manutd time and again. This made us hard to beat but also enabled us to score goals.With a Callum Wilson type of striker we would have scored alot more IMO.
If you think your players( ie knockheart  and cavaleiro from last season ) are better one on one than there opponents then the tacic and intent is to ,by patient possession ,create situations where defenders cant double up on these players. The problem was that Knockheart and cavalero were not up to the job. Holding on to leads was a successful tactic by Parker and something which made us much more stable than for many years in this regard ,although it didnt work that well this year.Its how most successful teams win matches. Jokanovic did it with his teams too.

Out of possession ,Parker made us amuch better side this season , something that he rarely gets any credit for.


Most of what you describe is how most teams play and reliance on individual skill is what makes the difference for most teams.

[MJG]

Parkerball=Possession based football played from the back but without any real attacking plan once into the final third.
A reliance on individual ability in the final third to produce a chance or score a goal.
Game plan is to keep tight and hope to take the lead. If in the lead with around 15 minutes to go then try to shut up shop and reduce attacking options and hold out for the three points.
Instructions are to not lose the ball and go back if required and play at walking pace.
Inverted wingers, one person as mobile striker(or someone who runs around a lot), full back are main focal point for crosses.

In a nutshell, pick a team, keep the ball, hope to score and then everyone defend.

see what your saying but thats not how we played when we got results last year. Instead we played out directly from the back ,sometimes early and bypassing our midfield to runners into the channels. More importantly ,out of possession we pressed with purpose and often high turning over the the top sides like Spurs, leicester and Liverpool ,manutd time and again. This made us hard to beat but also enabled us to score goals.With a Callum Wilson type of striker we would have scored alot more IMO.
If you think your players( ie knockheart  and cavaleiro from last season ) are better one on one than there opponents then the tacic and intent is to ,by patient possession ,create situations where defenders cant double up on these players. The problem was that Knockheart and cavalero were not up to the job. Holding on to leads was a successful tactic by Parker and something which made us much more stable than for many years in this regard ,although it didnt work that well this year.Its how most successful teams win matches. Jokanovic did it with his teams too.

Out of possession ,Parker made us amuch better side this season , something that he rarely gets any credit for.


Most of what you describe is how most teams play and reliance on individual skill is what makes the difference for most teams.

Parker takes the holding out tactic to the extreme. In 19/20 in last 15 minutes of games we gave up a very high rate of chances while sitting in our box. We got away with it then, but it didn't work this season because the quality againt us was higher.
As I've said in past about Parker he shows glimpses of being a good coach, but he reverts to type(what I described below) and because of that and he's ultra defensive mindset...which is not how majority of teams close a game down....we will always be on a knife edge results wise. We should not have finished so far short, bit we simply did not take the game to teams where we needed to. Yes we got good results...or just a performance...against better teams....but why the reverse against the botton 6 or 7? How many times do we start flat each half? For such an alleged motivater he fails to get us to kick on far too many times for my liking.

[colinwhite]

Parkerball=Possession based football played from the back but without any real attacking plan once into the final third.
A reliance on individual ability in the final third to produce a chance or score a goal.
Game plan is to keep tight and hope to take the lead. If in the lead with around 15 minutes to go then try to shut up shop and reduce attacking options and hold out for the three points.
Instructions are to not lose the ball and go back if required and play at walking pace.
Inverted wingers, one person as mobile striker(or someone who runs around a lot), full back are main focal point for crosses.

In a nutshell, pick a team, keep the ball, hope to score and then everyone defend.

see what your saying but thats not how we played when we got results last year. Instead we played out directly from the back ,sometimes early and bypassing our midfield to runners into the channels. More importantly ,out of possession we pressed with purpose and often high turning over the the top sides like Spurs, leicester and Liverpool ,manutd time and again. This made us hard to beat but also enabled us to score goals.With a Callum Wilson type of striker we would have scored alot more IMO.
If you think your players( ie knockheart  and cavaleiro from last season ) are better one on one than there opponents then the tacic and intent is to ,by patient possession ,create situations where defenders cant double up on these players. The problem was that Knockheart and cavalero were not up to the job. Holding on to leads was a successful tactic by Parker and something which made us much more stable than for many years in this regard ,although it didnt work that well this year.Its how most successful teams win matches. Jokanovic did it with his teams too.

Out of possession ,Parker made us amuch better side this season , something that he rarely gets any credit for.


Most of what you describe is how most teams play and reliance on individual skill is what makes the difference for most teams.

Parker takes the holding out tactic to the extreme. In 19/20 in last 15 minutes of games we gave up a very high rate of chances while sitting in our box. We got away with it then, but it didn't work this season because the quality againt us was higher.
As I've said in past about Parker he shows glimpses of being a good coach, but he reverts to type(what I described below) and because of that and he's ultra defensive mindset...which is not how majority of teams close a game down....we will always be on a knife edge results wise. We should not have finished so far short, bit we simply did not take the game to teams where we needed to. Yes we got good results...or just a performance...against better teams....but why the reverse against the botton 6 or 7? How many times do we start flat each half? For such an alleged motivater he fails to get us to kick on far too many times for my liking.

i hear you and its far from perfect. The soft touch that we were when he took over defensively was addressed though.
as far as not beating he teams around us  are concerned ,or taking games o teams ,we were found lacking and that ultimately cost us dearly. Did we have the players to do that or win the physical battle against the bottom half of tables sides ? No ,simple . Mitro should have played more in those games but he was poor most of the time anyway. I still think with newxcastles forward we would have comfortably finished mid-table. We lacked size ,strenth and pace for me ,in those vital games . It didnt work for the team with 4 at the back . Did we win agame witha back four ? WBA at home maybe.
Would I keep Parker? depends on the players and if they want him.  If so and we make some good additions i am confident he can do well.If not even getting in a big name could be a hell of a risk and a complete restart. The club needs to stabalise ,I believe.

One thingIi think parker gets far too little credit for is that he has almost always delivered when we really needed it  ( apart from those last 8 or games this season ) . Bouncing back after defeats is his forte.

[toshes mate]

The time for stability was years ago before Rigg and company were expurgated by the 'Two K's' DoF job lot.  We have bounced around four times and no one at the top seems to know what stability actually means.  My only reason for supporting Parker after Ranieri was that the Khans can't recruit for love or money.  Loans, loan, loans for a Club that is rolling in money and all because the kid bought the wrong stuff in the supermarket when he did have some cash to spend.