Climate Change - A radical Proposal - We know it works

[Stevieboy]

Carbon dioxide emissions in the UK have fallen by 10.7% in 2020 v 2019 to 326.1 million tonnes.
Total 'greenhouse' gas emissions are 48.8% lower than in 1990. So we are not the problem, however............
China is the largest contributing country with emissions rising steadily, now producing 10.06 BILLION metric tonnes of CO2.
Maybe the protests and indignation should be aimed there.

[rebel]

There is no point in anyone including the Cabbage Patch Doll from Sweden getting themselves in a state and huffing and puffing over this issue.
All very Laudable individual people doing their bit in order to reduce their carbon footprint, but it isn't going to make any difference until the likes of China, Russia, USA who are the biggest contributors amongst others, not forgetting that the massive increases in the worlds population also has a massive effect on any alleged climate issues.
If you wish to believe everything you read that is up to the individual, and I and my family do our bit to save the planet as many of you do I am sure. But I will not be bullied or intimidated by any man or woman including the likes of the Cabbage Patch and her motley crew of oddballs trying to stamp their beliefs on the the rest of the population into bowing down to their extreme beliefs and views is a form of communism and note how these protesters only pick on the easy soft targets, why are they not in China and Russia. This country as much as any country has made as big an effort as any country but the tin helmet brigade always target us because we have over many recent years had weak leaders and a weak corrupt establishment. I will not be dictated to by these creatures whilst they and all the other Cretins who preach to us surfs are jetting around and be cruising around the world in their aircraft and huge limousines.
I have been around for thousands of years witnessing the invention of the wheel, the Long Bow, discovering that planet Earth was not flat after all, the invention of gun powder the telephone, penicillin, cure for haemorrhoids, invention of the wireless, the battle of Agincourt, discovering that the serpent was here before Adam & Eve, Witch Finder Generals and watching that film the Mask are just a few of my favourites, although the only set back was the extinction of the Hairy Elephant. But I survived the Ice Age, the Bronze Age, the Iron Age and I will certainly survive the Woke Age. So I intend to hang around for thousands of years more, until either the sun catches on fire or a large Comet hits the earth or ET turns up with an army of invaders from Plant Dung, or some burk presses the wrong button and we all go to hell.
We shall be booking our holidays in July in Sardinia and the Cabbage Patch and her brigade of simpletons can snore off.
So relax and enjoy what's left while you can as what some self promoted expert of a wide eyed man standing in the desert with a long beard wearing a cloak and gazing into the sunset holding a staff in one hand wrote on an animal skin thousands of years ago that the end of the world is nigh says it all, it's what ever suits your narrative.
Now where did I park my 4 x 4 Diesel 8 seater.
Ah yes I remember next to my Coal Shed.

Dude, we are trying to save you, being extinct once is bad enough, being extinct twice would be a tragedy. 

[rebel]

Automation is a separate issue entirely - we had that in the '70s with WPs and later PCs etc. 

I'm self-employed. If I work three days I'll accomplish 3/5ths of the output/sales/income. My fixed costs remain the same. If I wanted to maintain the same level of output (not profit) I'd have to pay someone to work the other two days - and that comes at a cost. I could not pay myself the same for less work.

Thing is that you would be compensated by the State for the 2 days.

https://www.silicon.co.uk/e-management/jobs/automation-part-1-the-robots-are-coming-331521

[rebel]

What I dont understand is, why are bananas etc wrapped in plastic? They have a skin we don't eat for a reason. Even though my hatred for Primark is vast, the one thing they do right is give you paperbags instead of plastic. This should be as standard everywhere. If they're not strong enough, use two. Don't create piles of un-biodegradable bags in land fills. Make coca cola (the biggest producers of plastic bottles by a country mile) sell their products in glass bottles and give you a discount on the next purchase, when returning the bottle.

We now live in a time where nothing lasts. That should be the first change. Electronics becoming obsolete after a couple of years only benefits the company that makes them.

Exactly, all fruit and veg used to be purchased in paperbags. Just ask Woolly.

[MikeTheCubed]

China has recently suffered massive floods and recorded record-low temperatures & "early" winter weather, and yet are pressing ahead with the construction of more & more coal plants. Doesn't fit the media narrative.

[bobby01]

Not trying to be antagonistic, but I keep seeing from the green side of the debates about we must have paper bags,straws, etc. cardboard boxes and to be used as an alternative to plastic.
I know I am 70 but was not plastic introduced because of the furore over deforestation for trees being used for the above alternative that we now wish to return.

[rebel]

Woolly - thank you for your words of wisdom. You are the only other person I have heard mention the word "population" in any discussion of climate change. No mention that I am aware of at COP26 or in any of the papers or articles I have seen, of the fact that an increasing population is inevitably going to increase demand for energy ... as well as food and shelter, both of which put strains on the world's eco-system. But it's a taboo subject ...

Population growth is another reason to act now.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/07/200715150444.htm

[rebel]

Not trying to be antagonistic, but I keep seeing from the green side of the debates about we must have paper bags,straws, etc. cardboard boxes and to be used as an alternative to plastic.
I know I am 70 but was not plastic introduced because of the furore over deforestation for trees being used for the above alternative that we now wish to return.

Yep, I remember seeing tomatoes in a plastic tray for the first, thinking it looked so unnatural, tomatoes in paper bag looked more natural.

[Holders]

Woolly - thank you for your words of wisdom. You are the only other person I have heard mention the word "population" in any discussion of climate change. No mention that I am aware of at COP26 or in any of the papers or articles I have seen, of the fact that an increasing population is inevitably going to increase demand for energy ... as well as food and shelter, both of which put strains on the world's eco-system. But it's a taboo subject ...

Very true, population is a taboo subject and the elephant in the room. Attenborough mentions it occasionally but gets slated for it. I suspect he's got a video on the subject made for broadcast when he eventually passes. There's no doubt that growth in population increases pressure on resources and land. Look at the UK where the population (too large as it is) is stable or falling and yet they're building houses all over the place whilst existing buildings lie empty.

But the counter-argument is that countries that have growing populations don't want to be lectured (at risk of antagonisation) by the first world who caused most of the pollution in the first place and who are the main consumers and polluters still. I get that: over-consumption is the very most immediate priority that could help slow the tide but population isn't far behind in my view. There's also a school of thought that growth in world population is slowing and a plateau approaching. But still at too high a level, of course.

[rebel]

The big

Woolly - thank you for your words of wisdom. You are the only other person I have heard mention the word "population" in any discussion of climate change. No mention that I am aware of at COP26 or in any of the papers or articles I have seen, of the fact that an increasing population is inevitably going to increase demand for energy ... as well as food and shelter, both of which put strains on the world's eco-system. But it's a taboo subject ...

Very true, population is a taboo subject and the elephant in the room. Attenborough mentions it occasionally but gets slated for it. I suspect he's got a video on the subject made for broadcast when he eventually passes. There's no doubt that growth in population increases pressure on resources and land. Look at the UK where the population (too large as it is) is stable or falling and yet they're building houses all over the place whilst existing buildings lie empty.

But the counter-argument is that countries that have growing populations don't want to be lectured (at risk of antagonisation) by the first world who caused most of the pollution in the first place and who are the main consumers and polluters still. I get that: over-consumption is the very most immediate priority that could help slow the tide but population isn't far behind in my view. There's also a school of thought that growth in world population is slowing and a plateau approaching. But still at too high a level, of course.

The big thing is the world has created organisations like the WHO, NATO, World Bank which are hopeless, they can't stop diseases, wars or poverty. They were set up to do just that.   

[Holders]

Not trying to be antagonistic, but I keep seeing from the green side of the debates about we must have paper bags,straws, etc. cardboard boxes and to be used as an alternative to plastic.
I know I am 70 but was not plastic introduced because of the furore over deforestation for trees being used for the above alternative that we now wish to return.

Paper bags etc. are made from "renewable" cheap conifer wood, generally from plantations, and are biodegradable. The argument back then was that it was bad if broadleaved or species-rich woodlands were felled to make way for conifer monocultures (as they were). That was a good reason for declining paper bags where possible - but not for instead using plastic ones made from petrochemicals. There is no real connection with deforestation in the "rainforest" sense, there were/are other causes of that.

[Lighthouse]

Stop having kids, allow everybody over the age of 60 to die peacefully if they desire instead of forcing us to live ever harder lives that only seem to put pressure on a failing system.  Allow the population to diminish. Stop paying so much to people. Allow the difference in wages between the very rich and poor to diminish so everybody is paid a fairer wage which would cut down the expensive Government bureaucracy that costs us billions for little return.  Make Green products cheaper and affordable. Change the system that forces short term measures every time we vote in some idiot who despite the rhetoric is no different from the idiot we voted out. Cut down the expense in a democratic system that seems to have millions of pen pushers and computer key board tappers that achieve nothing.

You want to save the World? We had a pandemic that gave us a chance to work towards changing a failing system. Instead people wanted to get 'back to normal' Normal is broken. Change the system.

[Bassey the warrior]

Eating less meat will need to happen, vegan meat is making great strides all the time and it's often hard to tell the difference, lab grown meat is also a thing which again is supposedly very tasty.

But most of the substantial change needs to be driven by the government: offering subsidies for changing to electric vehicles, buying solar panels, heatpumps (their current subsidy offer is too low and available for far too people), getting insulation, etc. They need to make transitioning to green energy brands affordable by adding a green energy tariff and protecting the green energy companies like Bulb energy. Stop offering subsidies to fossil fuel companies.

They shouldn't invest in any new coal mines or oil fields (two things they are thinking of investing in) and put together a detailed plan to full transition away from coal and oil into renewable technology.

New technology innovations will play a role as well, innovations that don't exist yet.

If the government set the right example then people will follow, but at the moment it's all talk and very little action. Ultimately if we are going to avoid drastic environmental change then peoples lifestyles will have to change, there's no way around that.

[Somerset Fulham]

You want to save the World? We had a pandemic that gave us a chance to work towards changing a failing system. Instead people wanted to get 'back to normal' Normal is broken. Change the system.

100% this.

[Woolly Mammoth]

There is no point in anyone including the Cabbage Patch Doll from Sweden getting themselves in a state and huffing and puffing over this issue.
All very Laudable individual people doing their bit in order to reduce their carbon footprint, but it isn't going to make any difference until the likes of China, Russia, USA who are the biggest contributors amongst others, not forgetting that the massive increases in the worlds population also has a massive effect on any alleged climate issues.
If you wish to believe everything you read that is up to the individual, and I and my family do our bit to save the planet as many of you do I am sure. But I will not be bullied or intimidated by any man or woman including the likes of the Cabbage Patch and her motley crew of oddballs trying to stamp their beliefs on the the rest of the population into bowing down to their extreme beliefs and views is a form of communism and note how these protesters only pick on the easy soft targets, why are they not in China and Russia. This country as much as any country has made as big an effort as any country but the tin helmet brigade always target us because we have over many recent years had weak leaders and a weak corrupt establishment. I will not be dictated to by these creatures whilst they and all the other Cretins who preach to us surfs are jetting around and be cruising around the world in their aircraft and huge limousines.
I have been around for thousands of years witnessing the invention of the wheel, the Long Bow, discovering that planet Earth was not flat after all, the invention of gun powder the telephone, penicillin, cure for haemorrhoids, invention of the wireless, the battle of Agincourt, discovering that the serpent was here before Adam & Eve, Witch Finder Generals and watching that film the Mask are just a few of my favourites, although the only set back was the extinction of the Hairy Elephant. But I survived the Ice Age, the Bronze Age, the Iron Age and I will certainly survive the Woke Age. So I intend to hang around for thousands of years more, until either the sun catches on fire or a large Comet hits the earth or ET turns up with an army of invaders from Plant Dung, or some burk presses the wrong button and we all go to hell.
We shall be booking our holidays in July in Sardinia and the Cabbage Patch and her brigade of simpletons can snore off.
So relax and enjoy what's left while you can as what some self promoted expert of a wide eyed man standing in the desert with a long beard wearing a cloak and gazing into the sunset holding a staff in one hand wrote on an animal skin thousands of years ago that the end of the world is nigh says it all, it's what ever suits your narrative.
Now where did I park my 4 x 4 Diesel 8 seater.
Ah yes I remember next to my Coal Shed.

Dude, we are trying to save you, being extinct once is bad enough, being extinct twice would be a tragedy. 

I agree and I am pleased you feel you will miss me as I will miss you, but rest assured the mob will be talking about the same subject until Armageddon.

[Bassey the warrior]

You want to save the World? We had a pandemic that gave us a chance to work towards changing a failing system. Instead people wanted to get 'back to normal' Normal is broken. Change the system.

100% this.

The young generation are desperate for change, but for everyone else they need to be convinced by the government to change things. The Prime Minister is telling everyone we don't need to do anything.

[Friendsoffulham]

A gentle reminder, that the topic for this discussion is 'Climate Change - A radical Proposal - We know it works'.

Happy to let this topic run, as climate change is an important subject, however, please keep on topic, and refrain from entering any political debate / arguments.

If this this does happen, the post will be locked / shut down as per our guidelines.

[Bassey the warrior]

China has recently suffered massive floods and recorded record-low temperatures & "early" winter weather, and yet are pressing ahead with the construction of more & more coal plants. Doesn't fit the media narrative.

Yep, hypocrisy is rife across many countries - US and UK too.

[Rupert]

World population was just over 4 billion back when I was a nipper. It has doubled since then. I have read projections that it is likely to top out at 10 billion (give or take a few hundred thousand) around 2060, then go into a slow decline. This is due to more than half the world's population living in urban areas, which only first happened a decade ago. It seems townies have fewer kids than countryfolk (fairs fair, there is not much to do during those long dark winter nights).

I recall reading a book, back in the 1980s, called "Nature's End", which had a radical politician in 2020(ish) come up with the wheeze of killing off something like one third of the world's population to solve climate change. The book predicted a lot of what is happening now, wild fires and deforestation and new diseases, but in the book they are far more destructive than in reality. The authors claimed it was all based on solid science, so maybe they were merely a little out with the timetable.

[Logicalman]

3 day week, all the 'omissions' saved in those two days would help drastically reduce Global Green House Gas omissions.

During World Wide Lockdown, this was proven to have an effect.

You probably have that option now if you have a nice chat with your employer. So long as you can manage on three fifths of your salary.

I can understand where you are coming from on this Holders, and I don't disagree, though, if the past year or more has shown us, there are alternatives that have a smaller impact footprint on the revenue cycle of companies, and in some cases, provide a bonus.

When it comes to actual manufacturing, the issue is less flexible I would agree, though the world has been moving towards computerization and automation and this has had an effect on manufacturing (perhaps not as much as we might have liked, but even a smaller degree is better than nothing). With the move into more electronic working practices, as opposed to pen & paper, together with infrastructure programs implemented by many countries, it has provided an extra benefit inasmuch that there is an opportunity to reduce the daily commute and the associated exhaust pollution. Just pushing forwards with the latter has multiple benefits, not only pollution (which this thread is aimed at), but also cost of doing business for those companies willing to take advantage, productivity increase, quality of life increase for the remote workers, to name a few.

I can understand that there is a need for electronic infrastructure expenditure, something the governments always appear to moan about, but with less commuting and the associated damage to related infrastructures, the cost savings on those maintenance programs should be repurposed for electronics infrastructure cost. It's simply a win-win situation.

Nobody is naïve enough to believe there is a silver bullet for these problems, but just cracking one issue at a time starts the ball rolling in the right direction.