Wouldn't it be nice to have a proper English national anthem.

[Neil D]

There seems to be a problem with an anthem which has great lyrics or a great tune but rarely both. Sometimes you have an unfortunate confluence of both the opposites such as the UK - rubbish words and tune.  The Russian anthem has a great tune (the old Soviet one) but, in translation, some new rather over-blown words. The French (my favourite) and Italian anthems also rousing tunes but the lyrics are very much of their time - maybe a little too martial for contemporary tastes.

[Cobh Fulham Fan]

Ok Holders. The Fields of Athenry, while a catchy tune I'm not sure would do as a national anthem.  Have you listened to the words? its anti-establishment, in fact anti British establishment, about starvation and the famine and how the crown dealt with that period of Irish history.   It's mainly sang at Rugby matches rather than soccer, and thats surprising given that some on the Irish Rugby team hail from unionist backgrounds.    Celtic supporters also sing it at their matches, as do Liverpool supporter, though I think they use the air to different lyrics. 

I expect in the next 10 to 15 years, post border poll/referendum and Irish unity, we are going to have to come up with a totally new anthem that will represent everyone on the whole Island.   But of course, none of this addresses the issue of an English anthem.

[Holders]

Ok Holders. The Fields of Athenry, while a catchy tune I'm not sure would do as a national anthem.  Have you listened to the words? its anti-establishment, in fact anti British establishment, about starvation and the famine and how the crown dealt with that period of Irish history.   It's mainly sang at Rugby matches rather than soccer, and thats surprising given that some on the Irish Rugby team hail from unionist backgrounds.    Celtic supporters also sing it at their matches, as do Liverpool supporter, though I think they use the air to different lyrics. 

I expect in the next 10 to 15 years, post border poll/referendum and Irish unity, we are going to have to come up with a totally new anthem that will represent everyone on the whole Island.   But of course, none of this addresses the issue of an English anthem.

Mr Cobh. I know the words well and totally empathise with the sentiment, although not an anthem as such of course. I can understand it being construed as anti-British in Ireland but plenty of people from here were transported as well for stealing their lord's corn. In our case the oppressing lords will mostly have been of Norman descent. Trevelyan sounds Cornish.

You'd better get on with your border poll! I've got £20 riding on it happening within 10 years from you-know-what.

No, I'm still looking for ideas. I guess we'll be stuck with GSTK when the UK breaks up as part of the rationale will have disappeared. .

[sunburywhite]

Sweet Caroline

[Cobh Fulham Fan]

Holders, you are the second person I heard saying Trevelyan was Cornish. Interesting that.  There is a small Island a mile out the Harbour from the town of Cobh, named Spike Island.  There were forty thousand convicts left the island for Oz throughout Victoria's reign. it was later described as Irelands Alcatraz.

When Cromwell was earlier on tour in Ireland, hundreds more convicts were sent to Barbados from there - as white slaves. in 1920-21 there was two successful escapes from the island by republican prisoners.  British forces left the island for the last time in 1938, under the terms of the Anglo-Irish Treaty.

But here is the interesting part. In 1922, members of a Birmingham regiment stationed on the Island, along with locals from the town of Cobh, including among them local IRA members, all got together and founded a new football club called Cobh Ramblers.  This was later the same club where Roy Keane began his career before being snapped up by Notts Forrest.   Today, the club still sports the same claret and blue colours as Aston Villa - the direct connection to those Birmingham soldiers, and the original training pitch for the club was called Villa Park.   The club was 100 years old this summer gone!

[cmg]

There seems to be a problem with an anthem which has great lyrics or a great tune but rarely both. Sometimes you have an unfortunate confluence of both the opposites such as the UK - rubbish words and tune.  The Russian anthem has a great tune (the old Soviet one) but, in translation, some new rather over-blown words. The French (my favourite) and Italian anthems also rousing tunes but the lyrics are very much of their time - maybe a little too martial for contemporary tastes.

I too, like the rather menacing majesty of the old USSR anthem and the rather jaunty Italian job.
I always liked the old DDR (East Germany) anthem when it was constantly being played at the Olympics when the little DDR kept sticking it to the big boys (I didn't know then that they were all drugged up to the eyeballs).
Anyway, that one is going spare now so perhaps we could nick it. Doesn't matter about the words as the lyrics to Auferstanden Aus Ruinen were subsequently deemed by the friendly, fun-loving Stasi to be suggestive of support for a united Germany so, in a move which underlined what a bonkers regime it was, the citizens of the DDR were banned from singing the words to their own national anthem.

[Twig]

I don't understand why so many people want an English anthem. I am proud to be British and happy to have a British anthem. And whilst there are valid arguments for replacing or updating the existing one, good luck with convincing the electorate!  Personally I find this obsession with "Englishness" all a tiny bit small minded but I accept that's perhaps just me.

Quite agree, worried how this board is slididing to the right.

Will always be British, Nationalism is awful, look at The SNP

Not a question of sliding to the right, why do Scotland, Wales and NI have their own anthems, simple really, they are not interested in being British. GSTK is fine when we are operating as a team Olympics for instance, but not when we are standing alone.

For myself I am English first, British second, always have been always will be.

I don't think it's right to suggest that having pride in one's native country, land or region inevitably means a desire for separatism. I grant you that, in recent times, this is more so the case in Scotland in particular - for well-known reasons.

However, there are plenty of healthy countries or unions where regional characteristics, customs etc are celebrated without being seen as a separatist movement. People in regions of France or Germany for example.  Indeed, I'd suggest that a healthy amalgamation of such regional variations actually facilitates celebration of individual and regional differences without it being seen as nationalistic. See my point in an earlier post.

I think you make this point very well. I have never taken the existence of anthems for the other parts of the Union as directly implying a nationalistic push for separatism. I think there is a rather English resentment of these anthems, I don't really understand why.

[Holders]

I don't understand why so many people want an English anthem. I am proud to be British and happy to have a British anthem. And whilst there are valid arguments for replacing or updating the existing one, good luck with convincing the electorate!  Personally I find this obsession with "Englishness" all a tiny bit small minded but I accept that's perhaps just me.

Quite agree, worried how this board is slididing to the right.

Will always be British, Nationalism is awful, look at The SNP

Not a question of sliding to the right, why do Scotland, Wales and NI have their own anthems, simple really, they are not interested in being British. GSTK is fine when we are operating as a team Olympics for instance, but not when we are standing alone.

For myself I am English first, British second, always have been always will be.

I don't think it's right to suggest that having pride in one's native country, land or region inevitably means a desire for separatism. I grant you that, in recent times, this is more so the case in Scotland in particular - for well-known reasons.

However, there are plenty of healthy countries or unions where regional characteristics, customs etc are celebrated without being seen as a separatist movement. People in regions of France or Germany for example.  Indeed, I'd suggest that a healthy amalgamation of such regional variations actually facilitates celebration of individual and regional differences without it being seen as nationalistic. See my point in an earlier post.

I think you make this point very well. I have never taken the existence of anthems for the other parts of the Union as directly implying a nationalistic push for separatism. I think there is a rather English resentment of these anthems, I don't really understand why.

You may be right, Mr.Twig. I don't resent it myself for one instant but I am somewhat envious that we have no worthy equivalent and (above) I put that down to the structure of the UK as a union.

I have a long-standing interest in regional customs, festivals etc and have observed them flourishing across (if I may use the word) Europe because people felt free to celebrate them as they did not threaten the overall relationship.

Visits to France, Germany and Eastern Europe illustrate this. In former years I'd have added Scotland but the situation has undoubtedly changed.

[Holders]

That's fascinating, Mr Cobh. Trevelyan is certainly a Cornish name but now I think of it, he wasn't the lord himself but the Crown agent in charge of a grain store. But my point was that it wasn't just the Irish who suffered such gross injustice at the hands of non-native tyrants but English as well. They were mainly shipped from West Country ports and probably Liverpool. Cromwell was an abomination.

I can't remember the name but there's an island off west Cork that was used as a slave staging post by the vikings before that. History sadly so often repeats itself.The island reached by the cable car that takes one cow or two people!

Afterthought: it was Dursey Island.

NFR but I have a personal, if distant connection. One of my ancestral families were mariners from North Devon recorded as crewing ships that carried (as well as contraband and legit cargo) convicts destined for America. The shipowner found it cheaper to just dump them on Lundy Island just offshore where he used them as slave labour. This profiteering rogue was  High Sheriff of Devon and an MP.

Plus ca change.

[leafe hill white]

Why not 'There'll always be an England' by Vera Lynn? Always thought of it as a great outsider!

I would prefer Hyacinth Bucket`s rendition of "There`ll Always Be an England".

[Snibbo]

Given the governments you keep electing it ought to be the Eton Boating Song, surely:

When you're tired of winning
When you get tired of fame
Or when your head is spinning
And you've drunk all the best champagne
Then we'll all sing together
To society we'll be true
Then we'll all sing together
Society waits for you

Oh how we all get richer
Playing the rolling game
Only the poor get poorer
We feed off them all the same
Then we'll all sing together
To society we'll be true
Then we'll all sing together
Society waits for you

Some may call us sinners
We think of ourselves as saints
Some may call us killers
It's done with such restraint
Then we'll all sing together
To society we'll be true
Then we'll all sing together
Society waits for you

Some may call us sinners
We think of ourselves as saints
Some may call us killers
It's done with such restraint
Then we'll all sing together
To society we'll be true
Then we'll all sing together
Society waits for you

[Cobh Fulham Fan]

I dont know about an anthem Snibbo, but the words of that song are definitely crazy enough to win the Eurovision song contest!  064.gif

[jarv]

Not a great fan of national anthems (or religion).  How about streets of London by Ralph Mctell (just kidding, don't want to offend
Manchester, Newcastle etc.).

[RaySmith]

Ok Holders. The Fields of Athenry, while a catchy tune I'm not sure would do as a national anthem.  Have you listened to the words? its anti-establishment, in fact anti British establishment, about starvation and the famine and how the crown dealt with that period of Irish history.   It's mainly sang at Rugby matches rather than soccer, and thats surprising given that some on the Irish Rugby team hail from unionist backgrounds.    Celtic supporters also sing it at their matches, as do Liverpool supporter, though I think they use the air to different lyrics. 

I expect in the next 10 to 15 years, post border poll/referendum and Irish unity, we are going to have to come up with a totally new anthem that will represent everyone on the whole Island.   But of course, none of this addresses the issue of an English anthem.

Mr Cobh. I know the words well and totally empathise with the sentiment, although not an anthem as such of course. I can understand it being construed as anti-British in Ireland but plenty of people from here were transported as well for stealing their lord's corn. In our case the oppressing lords will mostly have been of Norman descent. Trevelyan sounds Cornish.

You'd better get on with your border poll! I've got £20 riding on it happening within 10 years from you-know-what.

No, I'm still looking for ideas. I guess we'll be stuck with GSTK when the UK breaks up as part of the rationale will have disappeared. .

Love this song, but it's a song identified with Celtic fans, who sing many Irish songs, especially about this historical period, as well as by fans of Irish national teams. The tune is also used by Liverpool fans, where many are of Irish descent, who sing the 'The fields of Anfield', or something like that.

It's a song very much associated with Irish nationalism and identity, which many of those living in the west of Scotland have, associated with the Great Famine, which caused them to move there from Ireland all those years ago, often facing prejudice from the local, Protestant population - and to America and England of course.

In Glasgow, which my wife comes from and where I've lived, fans of Celtic and Rangers both sing about the Potatoe Famine, still - from different sides, and the authorities have tried unsuccessfully for years to stamp out 'sectarianism.'

I agree the song has a resonance for many in this country, and is a great song imo, but there is no way it would be accepted as an anthem for England - by a number of people, imo - though things could change in the future, especially with events in Ireland.

[Holders]

Not a great fan of national anthems (or religion).  How about streets of London by Ralph Mctell (just kidding, don't want to offend
Manchester, Newcastle etc.).

No, you can't have that, sorry. Israel has got it reserved for if ever England adopts Jerusalem.

[Cobh Fulham Fan]

+ 1

[cmg]

Brazil v Switzerland.
Shows ours is a long way from being the worst.
Brazil: Tune all over the place, much too long and far too quick for mass singing.
Switzerland: Ultra mournful. They've got the title spot on though. "Send us your cash and we'll ask no questions." I think I've translated that right.

[Neil D]

Switzerland: Ultra mournful. They've got the title spot on though. "Send us your cash and we'll ask no questions." I think I've translated that right.

I thought that was Prince Charles' anthem...