Andy Keys and Richard Gray ......it's all in the delivery

[White Noise]

The bottom line is that everyone should be free to hold whatever views they like, provided they don't express them publicly, or act on them, in ways that harm others.

Its a difficult area though. I think members of the police and teaching professions have been forced out because their leaked membership of the British National Party was felt to be incompatible with their roles.

Looking back at the Big Ron thing it was slightly different because his comments, though made after the game had finished and with him thinking his microphone was off, were accidently broadcast -

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/sport/article-10368374-ron-ill-meet-desailly-to-say-sorry.do

[Tonywa]

I have never doubted the ability of a woman because she is female, I have if she is rubbish at her job. Very different things.
[/quote]

Absolutely.  Criticise her if she is a poor assistant referee, not for her gender, which should not be relevant.

[TonyGilroy]

Hold whatever views you like but once you share them with others be prepared to take the consequences of their reactions.

[AlFayedsChequebook]

No, of course I am not saying that. I am saying that as a consumer the way to register dissatisfaction with a service provider - of any kind - is to reduce or switch one's business.

I can't remember the circumstances of Ron Atkinson's comments, but if they were made in private and accidentally broadcast, or worse still leaked, then in my view the same would apply.

The bottom line is that everyone should be free to hold whatever views they like, provided they don't express them publicly, or act on them, in ways that harm others.

100% believe in freedom of speech BUT:

1) Your employer has the right to remove you if they deem your take on the world to be offensive
2) They are obviously cowards if they will not come out and stick up for their views, however wrong.
3) What about their various colleagues? I bet lots of women who work at Sky Sports get bloody tired of all of the 'leave it out love' attitude that pervades SS. It all seems a bit to close to Anchorman for my liking...

[BalDrick]

Keys is just a spineless turd who'll say whatever he thinks the person he's talking to wants to hear, but I'm actually quite surprised at Gray. Used to like him doing games but he's been toeing the party line for far too long when I'm sure he used to say it as it was, regardless of whether that meant praising Fulham or slating United.

It was unprofessional of them to say that when they were miked up, that much is clear.

High time Sky binned the obsequious Keys and frankly I'd lose no sleep whatsoever if Gray went too.

[BalDrick]

'I bet lots of women who work at Sky Sports get bloody tired of all of the 'leave it out love' attitude that pervades SS.'

A channel that's happy to employ any number of good-looking women to read the autocues on SSN.

[King_Crud]

I cant stand Andy Gray, I've now resorted to listening the fans commentary and was thinking of ditching Sky. Now I may keep it

[Burt]

They were microphoned up in the middle of a studio, minutes before broadcast. There were probably a dozen or more crew members that could hear them, many of them female.

If this had been a conversation in the pub, I wouldn't want them sacked (but I would like them even less). They were at work. I'm quite happy for people to hold whatever disgusting views they like, but if they say anything racist, sexist or homophobic at work they shouldn't be surprised if they end up without a job.

I agree with this.

If they are at work, and all microphoned up, then they should have no right to expect that their conversation would be private, and Sky need to deal with it as they would any other harrassment or disrepute issue.

[Scrumpy]

They were microphoned up in the middle of a studio, minutes before broadcast. There were probably a dozen or more crew members that could hear them, many of them female.

If this had been a conversation in the pub, I wouldn't want them sacked (but I would like them even less). They were at work. I'm quite happy for people to hold whatever disgusting views they like, but if they say anything racist, sexist or homophobic at work they shouldn't be surprised if they end up without a job.

:045:

Could not have put it better myself.

[White Noise]

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Sky-no-comment-on-Richard-Keys-and-Andy-Gray-return-after-Sian-Massey-sexist-remarks-storm-article681363.html

[Jimpav]

This seems to be a storm in a teacup.

Yes it was unprofessional but there is a lot worse that has been seen and heard on TV. It doesn't strike me as particularly malicious particularly compared to what the ladies in question have no doubt heard in football stadiums the length and breadth of the country.

Secondly there was enough nudging and winking when MOTD had the first female commentator a couple of years ago, so this all seems quite hypocritical. If anything Gray and Keys should probably be apologising to the lineswoman and Karen Brady and then leave it at that.

[LBNo11]

...I wonder if Gold & Sullivan will show solidarity to their colleague Karen Brady and ban sky sports cameras until such time as an apology is made..?

[AlFayedsChequebook]

This seems to be a storm in a teacup.

Yes it was unprofessional but there is a lot worse that has been seen and heard on TV. It doesn't strike me as particularly malicious particularly compared to what the ladies in question have no doubt heard in football stadiums the length and breadth of the country.

Secondly there was enough nudging and winking when MOTD had the first female commentator a couple of years ago, so this all seems quite hypocritical. If anything Gray and Keys should probably be apologising to the lineswoman and Karen Brady and then leave it at that.

But will people ever learn if it is only ever an apology? People need to learn that actions have consequences, why should these two bigots continue to earn £1.7m a year?

[Ron Sheepskin]

This seems to be a storm in a teacup.

Yes it was unprofessional but there is a lot worse that has been seen and heard on TV. It doesn't strike me as particularly malicious particularly compared to what the ladies in question have no doubt heard in football stadiums the length and breadth of the country.

Secondly there was enough nudging and winking when MOTD had the first female commentator a couple of years ago, so this all seems quite hypocritical. If anything Gray and Keys should probably be apologising to the lineswoman and Karen Brady and then leave it at that.




But will people ever learn if it is only ever an apology? People need to learn that actions have consequences, why should these two bigots continue to earn £1.7m a year?

:clap_hands:

[duffbeer]

This seems to be a storm in a teacup.

Yes it was unprofessional but there is a lot worse that has been seen and heard on TV. It doesn't strike me as particularly malicious particularly compared to what the ladies in question have no doubt heard in football stadiums the length and breadth of the country.

Secondly there was enough nudging and winking when MOTD had the first female commentator a couple of years ago, so this all seems quite hypocritical. If anything Gray and Keys should probably be apologising to the lineswoman and Karen Brady and then leave it at that.

Completely agree with Jimpav.  And in addition, for anyone who really cares, the objectification of women that is rampant in society and on this forum is far more distasteful and destructive than a former footballer who doesnt like the idea of a female lino.  The worst thing the two said was "kenny will go potty",  really didnt need that image in my head.

[AlFayedsChequebook]

This seems to be a storm in a teacup.

Yes it was unprofessional but there is a lot worse that has been seen and heard on TV. It doesn't strike me as particularly malicious particularly compared to what the ladies in question have no doubt heard in football stadiums the length and breadth of the country.

Secondly there was enough nudging and winking when MOTD had the first female commentator a couple of years ago, so this all seems quite hypocritical. If anything Gray and Keys should probably be apologising to the lineswoman and Karen Brady and then leave it at that.

Completely agree with Jimpav.  And in addition, for anyone who really cares, the objectification of women that is rampant in society and on this forum is far more distasteful and destructive than a former footballer who doesnt like the idea of a female lino.  The worst thing the two said was "kenny will go potty",  really didnt need that image in my head.

So believing that women are inferior to men is an acceptable position, but thinking that a woman is beautiful is 'distasteful and destructive'?

Are you based in the Bible Belt sir?

[FatFreddysCat]

I'm just amazed she managed to read the map/ follow the satnav instructions and actually find her way to the ground. Luckily some bloke parked the car for her though, as it was a very tight space  :dft012:

[White Noise]

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/blogs/football-banter/Richard-Keys-and-Andy-Gray-laugh-at-other-commentators-mistakes-Keys-greases-up-Ulrika-Jonsson-Tando-Velaphi-or-Robbie-Fowler-s-Peth-Glory-throws-one-in-v-Wellington-Phoneix-in-goalkeeper-fail-Italian-commentator-goes-crazy-at-Roma-v-Cagliari-and-goals-from-Francesco-Totti-Simone-Perrotta-and-Jeremy-Menez-3PM-Extra-video-round-up-January-25-article681459.html

[AlFayedsChequebook]

Andy Gray has been sacked:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/9373280.stm
:yay:

[duffbeer]

This seems to be a storm in a teacup.

Yes it was unprofessional but there is a lot worse that has been seen and heard on TV. It doesn't strike me as particularly malicious particularly compared to what the ladies in question have no doubt heard in football stadiums the length and breadth of the country.

Secondly there was enough nudging and winking when MOTD had the first female commentator a couple of years ago, so this all seems quite hypocritical. If anything Gray and Keys should probably be apologising to the lineswoman and Karen Brady and then leave it at that.

Completely agree with Jimpav.  And in addition, for anyone who really cares, the objectification of women that is rampant in society and on this forum is far more distasteful and destructive than a former footballer who doesnt like the idea of a female lino.  The worst thing the two said was "kenny will go potty",  really didnt need that image in my head.

So believing that women are inferior to men is an acceptable position, but thinking that a woman is beautiful is 'distasteful and destructive'?

Are you based in the Bible Belt sir?

AlFayedschequebook, I'm not a sir and I don't live in the bible belt.  I also don't equate not wanting women on the football pitch to thinking women are inferior to men, although I wouldn't be surprised if those two gents do think that.  I know they said the thing about not "understanding offsides", but frankly I've heard similar comments from English commentators during the World Cup about male referees and linesmen that are from countries without a major football league.  And these comments were intended for mass public consumption and to be taken seriously. 

Similarly, I don't believe thinking women are beautiful is the same as the sexual objectification of women.  It is possible to think the former without doing the latter.  And as far as which is more distasteful and destructive I can offer this example.  When I was in my twenties, I was a female engineer working in the male dominated world of casting foundries.  One time a male engineer told me in all sincerity that the reason female engineers were not as good as their male counterparts was because the right side of a woman's brain is smaller.  Well that comment didn't bother me at all because I could do something about it by working hard and demonstrating that what he thought was wrong or irrelevant.  In contrast, I worked in a casting foundry near Leeds in which almost every worker on the shop floor had pictures of naked women plastered all over their workspace.  Well on the outside I dealt with it, even informing the ones with a sense of humour that perhaps they wouldn't be producing so much scrap if they weren't staring at those pictures all day, but I would be lying if I said working in that environment wasn't more intimidating or difficult in terms of doing my job.  There was really no constructive way I could react to it. 

Now maybe I'm alone in that regard or overly sensitive, but judging from the number of teenage anorexics, the popularity of boob jobs, and the plethora of plastic surgery on display in the ever popular women over 40 thread, I'm betting my company is quite vast.  And it is all demonstrative of a trend I consider destructive and something that at some point needs to be reigned in.  Much the way your namesake thinks salary caps are in order for the over all well-being of the prem.  I was merely making a point and wasn't the only one to claim a bit of hypocrisy had crept in to the issue. It was not a judgment of any posters or this forum.  I fully realize I have no business posting on a mostly male football forum if I don't expect to see some female T&A.  Although I actually only  visit here for the food/cooking thread and the hope that someday I can have an NFR talk with someone about how hot Jonathan Spector is.