Dempsey

[Willham]

Just seen a post in 'silly' that questioned Dempsey's legacy.

I didn't want to add to the growing list of unrelated transfer post so here's a thread instead.

I personally am suprised that even to this day, Dempsey is doubted.

It was kind of one of the things I loved about dempsey, he was masterclass but over and over again, we would have a new manager come in who didnt favour him.

And each time, Dempsey stuck with us and regained his spot, earning the trust of the manager.

I remember even Roy having a little unconvinced by Dempsey at first.

I thought that doubt had been put to rest by now.

[General]

His legacy is legitimate - but it's mainly centered around the goal vs liverpool, the Juventus goal, and the one good season where he banged in loads of goals for us before jumping ship to Spurs as soon as they were interested.

I have it engrained in my memory, countless matches of going and feeling frustrated as he always seemed a yard off the pace, or just not managing to contribute properly. I have an image in my head pretty clearly associated with those frustrations.

Yes, the Liverpool goal, the Juve goals will go down in folklore, and rightly so - but I think it puts a lot of over the top celebrations of who he was for us and what he was like for a large majority of the time.

For the Juve game for instance, he only came on in the 70th min. Yes he made a huge and significant contribution, which is etched into Fulham history and that we're all grateful for. I've nothing against the man, or the fact he did have a professional career in the PL and with us.

One thing you can't take away from him is that he worked his arse off to get the opportunity and keep it, which makes a huge difference.

I don't think it's an inaccurate assessment either:

Statistically he played quite a bit, but as an attacking player didn't really contribute a huge amount.. Yes, the odd goals went in and that helps for a club like Fulham, but I think he always had a lot more in the bag which he floundered on until that one season before leaving.

These are his career stats for 6 years with us.
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/clint-dempsey/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/27577/plus/0?saison=&verein=931&liga=&wettbewerb=&pos=&trainer_id=

[First State]

His goal against Juventus will go down as one of our greatest. It still gives me goose bumps to watch it. Pure exhilaration.

[hopper]

His legacy is legitimate - but it's mainly centered around the goal vs liverpool, the Juventus goal, and the one good season where he banged in loads of goals for us before jumping ship to Spurs as soon as they were interested.

I have it engrained in my memory, countless matches of going and feeling frustrated as he always seemed a yard off the pace, or just not managing to contribute properly. I have an image in my head pretty clearly associated with those frustrations.

Yes, the Liverpool goal, the Juve goals will go down in folklore, and rightly so - but I think it puts a lot of over the top celebrations of who he was for us and what he was like for a large majority of the time.

For the Juve game for instance, he only came on in the 70th min. Yes he made a huge and significant contribution, which is etched into Fulham history and that we're all grateful for. I've nothing against the man, or the fact he did have a professional career in the PL and with us.

One thing you can't take away from him is that he worked his arse off to get the opportunity and keep it, which makes a huge difference.

I don't think it's an inaccurate assessment either:

Statistically he played quite a bit, but as an attacking player didn't really contribute a huge amount.. Yes, the odd goals went in and that helps for a club like Fulham, but I think he always had a lot more in the bag which he floundered on until that one season before leaving.

These are his career stats for 6 years with us.
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/clint-dempsey/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/27577/plus/0?saison=&verein=931&liga=&wettbewerb=&pos=&trainer_id=

I think a lot of this is fair, but it also comes across a little bit harsh - it was certainly more than just his final season where he really blossomed. The season before that too has impressive numbers.

And considering how many of his appearances came off the bench he did pretty well to get the return he did.

I'm not saying there weren't frustrations at times, but that could be said for pretty much every player.

Beyond merely numbers his determination and belief was so important for us, and for me he's something of a Fulham legend.

[ffc73]

I struggle with the regular use of 'legend' in describing an ever increasing number of past player and lean towards the General's assessment but, I suppose, Dempsey does fit the definition of "an extremely famous or notorious person, especially in a particular (small FFC) field".

Was Dempsey the first of ours to have his head turned by Liverpool?  The manner of his departure I feel tarnished his reputation.  For me anyway.

[Dodgin]

Number 23 sold a lot of shirts

[YankeeJim]

Dempsey was a player that really doesn't gets the credit he deserves, IMHO. He wasn't the most likable player. He certainly never exhibited that hundred yard smile like Carney or Sess have. He didn't give great interviews. Perhaps that's why he was criticized more often than not in these pages. Former US Nat team coach Bruce Arena was asked (as I recall) why he started Dempsey when he was such an unpolished player. He answered, "He tries poo." That sorta sums up the American approach to football. The object of football is to score goals. Dempsey did.

(poo=shite)

[bobbo]

I liked him but can't go any further than that .

[Snibbo]

I think his second spell with us sullied his legacy to a certain extent. He didn't look committed and seemed to be using us just to get fit for the USA matches coming up

[FishaPrice]

I really resent when people downplay Dempsey's Fulham career:

Dempsey joined us in the winter transfer window of 06/07, and scored a crucial goal vs Liverpool to help us survive relegation. He was Fulham's leading goal scorer in 07/08, 08/09 (tied), 10/11, and 11/12. He scored 50 Premier League goals for Fulham, making him our all-time top goal scorer in the Premier League. The next person on the list scored 32 Premier League goals for us. Dempsey was our player of the season in 10/11 and 11/12. He was integral to our success in our Europa League run. That goal he scored vs Juventus has gone down in folklore, but Dempsey contributed so much more than just that moment. Dempsey was massive part of Fulham's most successive period, helping us go from relegation contenders to Europa league finalists.

How much more does someone need to do to be considered a Fulham legend? People love to point out his mediocre loan spell with us in 2014, but forget that he was only on loan with us for two months. Two months isn't exactly a lot of time to make an impact.

[Willham]

I really resent when people downplay Dempsey's Fulham career:

Dempsey joined us in the winter transfer window of 06/07, and scored a crucial goal vs Liverpool to help us survive relegation. He was Fulham's leading goal scorer in 07/08, 08/09 (tied), 10/11, and 11/12. He scored 50 Premier League goals for Fulham, making him our all-time top goal scorer in the Premier League. The next person on the list scored 32 Premier League goals for us. Dempsey was our player of the season in 10/11 and 11/12. He was integral to our success in our Europa League run. That goal he scored vs Juventus has gone down in folklore, but Dempsey contributed so much more than just that moment. Dempsey was massive part of Fulham's most successive period, helping us go from relegation contenders to Europa league finalists.

How much more does someone need to do to be considered a Fulham legend? People love to point out his mediocre loan spell with us in 2014, but forget that he was only on loan with us for two months. Two months isn't exactly a lot of time to make an impact.

Thank you, I could not have expressed it better than that :)

Remember too, he wasnt often our out and out striker. and with a return of more than 1 goal in every 4 appearances. That's an excellent return.

[Chi_FFC]

It was kind of one of the things I loved about dempsey, he was masterclass but over and over again, we would have a new manager come in who didnt favour him.

And each time, Dempsey stuck with us and regained his spot, earning the trust of the manager.

I don't think you could really fairly argue that this even happened once, much less multiple times.

[Chi_FFC]

He was Fulham's leading goal scorer in 07/08, 08/09

With 6 and 7 goals.

He was integral to our success in our Europa League run. That goal he scored vs Juventus has gone down in folklore, but Dempsey contributed so much more than just that moment.

The Juventus goal was actually Clint's only goal (or assist) in Europe that season. He was 15th among Fulham players in minutes played in European competition in 09-10.

[perry geyton]

It's mainly just anti American rhetoric that you'll come across quite a bit in the UK, generally comes from a hint of jealousy

There's no denying that Clint was top top draw

Moving to the Spurs was his only downside

[gerrys]

Simply stating Dempsey doesn't tell us which Dempsey we are talking about.....I was expecting news about Johnny...

[Willham]

He was Fulham's leading goal scorer in 07/08, 08/09

With 6 and 7 goals.

He was integral to our success in our Europa League run. That goal he scored vs Juventus has gone down in folklore, but Dempsey contributed so much more than just that moment.

The Juventus goal was actually Clint's only goal (or assist) in Europe that season. He was 15th among Fulham players in minutes played in European competition in 09-10.

Exactly my point that he had to earn the trust of Hodgson,

He wasnt used to great effect in the Europe run,

You've asked me a question then answered it yourself in your next post?

It was kind of one of the things I loved about dempsey, he was masterclass but over and over again, we would have a new manager come in who didnt favour him.

And each time, Dempsey stuck with us and regained his spot, earning the trust of the manager.

I don't think you could really fairly argue that this even happened once, much less multiple times.

I also remember jol not being really into using dempsey at first but then he ended up having his best season with us and jol, once Jol was convinced.

Same went with Mark Hughes.

So that's Hodgson, hughes and jol.

That's not even including chris coleman, who was in charge when he first joined and had to prove himself to him, he wasnt signed as a top player, he was signed as a bit part player, yet throughout his career with us, he became an integral part of all the managers teams. Over and over and over and over again.

I think you need to look up Dempsey's career with fulham if you're truly asking that question.

[hopper]

Yeah he certainly had to fight for his spot under multiple managers. He mentions this on Fulham Fix.

He came in as an incredibly raw and willing player, and left a transformed player who reached a level no one really expected.

[Deuce]

The Americans on here will go absolutely beserk

[Chi_FFC]

He was Fulham's leading goal scorer in 07/08, 08/09

With 6 and 7 goals.

He was integral to our success in our Europa League run. That goal he scored vs Juventus has gone down in folklore, but Dempsey contributed so much more than just that moment.

The Juventus goal was actually Clint's only goal (or assist) in Europe that season. He was 15th among Fulham players in minutes played in European competition in 09-10.

I think you need to look up Dempsey's career with fulham if your truly asking that question.

Mate, I think it's you who needs to take a closer look at Dempsey's Fulham career. To be clear in your original post you said Dempsey "was masterclass but over and over again, we would have a new manager come in who didnt favour him. And each time, Dempsey stuck with us and regained his spot, earning the trust of the manager." Interestingly enough I've seen similar things said by some American fans re Dempsey's Fulham career. That being every time a new manager came to Fulham Clint had been regularly starting and playing well prior to the coaching change, but found himself undeservedly benched immediately or very quickly upon the new man's arrival. This myth goes on to state that Clint worked hard each time to overcome this unfair treatment and earn back his rightful spot in the starting 11.

It's a good story, but the facts don't support it. After Coleman brought him to England from MLS it was obvious to everyone he needed time to settle into the English game. He deservedly never starts a match for Chris who was fired only a few months after Clint arrived. Sanchez comes in and Clint has a few matches as an unused sub, a few more where he gets sub minutes before getting his first start in the last (meaningless) match of the season. After a few matches the following season he settles into a starting role for Sanchez (in a dreadful team headed for relegation). Hodgson replaced Sanchez halfway through that season and Clint largely kept his starting job (for 12 of the 18 remaining league matches) and Roy led us to our great escape.

Now I suppose Hodgson's first full season in charge is what a lot of folks point to when making the claim that Clint was somehow treated unfairly or that he had to do more than other players to earn playing time (though I don't buy it). Roy always did seem a bit unsure how to use Clint. But let's be clear Clint hadn't exactly had a 07-08 season that should have guaranteed him a starting role in the next. He had 6 goals on a team that needed a LOT of luck just to avoid relegation...almost nobody in that team had earned a guaranteed starting spot. Anyhow, Roy brought in some new players in his first summer with the club and Clint initially started on the bench before earning back his starting spot. The next season Fulham had a lot of matches to play with the long Europa League run so there was quite a bit of rotation but Clint started often in the league. However, as I noted above he didn't start much in the Europa campaign and frankly I think the results speak for themselves. Fulham was pretty damn successful with Clint in a sub role.

Anyhow, Mark Hughes took over only a couple weeks before the start of the 10-11 season and used his first few matches as basically his preseason. Unsurprisingly, he started the first match with the team that got Fulham to the Europa League final. Clint got the start in the 2nd match of the season against Manchester United. Our big money signing of that summer (Dembele) then got his chance the third league match of the season before Clint returned for good to the starting line up against Wolves in week 4. Clint would then go on to have by far his best season for Fulham (before the next one, that is).

Finally, Clint started every league match (except the final one...thigh injury?) in his one season with Jol.

Look, I wouldn't have taken issue with your post if you'd said something like "Clint worked very hard and improved year over year for Fulham, earning the trust of all his managers." That's unquestionably true. However the notion that he'd consistently been "masterclass" for Fulham and was unfairly relegated to the bench every time a new manager came is just nonsense. On the occasion or two he was benched, he could have had no complaints. Clint had done nothing early in his Fulham career (in some really poor Fulham squads) to merit being an unquestioned starter. The fact of the matter is it wasn't until Hughes's only season in charge that Clint truly did enough to even arguably use the word "masterclass" to describe his performances.

[hopper]

It's mainly just anti American rhetoric that you'll come across quite a bit in the UK, generally comes from a hint of jealousy

There's no denying that Clint was top top draw

Moving to the Spurs was his only downside

Not sure I entirely agree it's jealousy. It perhaps depends on the context about whether this is within football or general society.

Need to be careful as quickly good mushroom as a discussion, but yeah relationships and attitudes towards USA are definitely complex.

As a club we have a great relationship with USA and American players, but I would say in football still now (and certainly then) there is a little bit of an attitude from us over here of 'what do you know?'. And I think that applied with fans and managers towards Clint for a good while.