Re: FoF MOTM Sunderland 1 V 3 Fulham and post match thread = Raul

[bencher]

Not a lot of teams have won there, so I wouldn't call the performance average at all. It was actually brilliant. We showed a lot of quality, but the final ball just wasn't there early on. We contained their high press and had to resort to send more passes into space than what we're used to. Very little build up from the back, so Iwobi and Berge's roles had to be a bit different. They both switched the side they were playing on, and had good understanding when to drop/cover and when to progress.

People say Berge played poorly, and this to me is again a lack of understanding of what his role is. He's not Palhinha, he's not set up to be Palhinha - people need to get over that. Today was actually the first time he looked to be more of an enforcer, but he also found himself protecting the back-line's half space (between CB and RB) and even had to cover for Tete who had drifted too far inside. In the end, Berge had 80% passing, didn't miss a tackle, and broke up what he could - even if it was causing fouls - something he doesn't do very often since Lukic has been out. He lost the ball for the first time in I'm not sure how many games, when Brobbey bodied him off as he had received the ball from ESR in a dangerous position (counter-attack, and ESR passes back into trouble). I said in the match thread that Berge and Iwobi kept Brobbey off the ball because they clogged the middle so well. Even Le Fee' couldn't get anything going until he was forced to drift well wide of where he likes to operate. Yes, Berge should shoot more often, and I'm sure he's hearing that from his teammates as well.

All of this. You do know your footie, mate. Time and time and time again i see people here complaining about Berge. And every single time I feel it is really a complaint about the type of player he is, and the fact that many do not see how vital his positioning, break-up play, and vision are. Most just want a classic, two straight feet in,  no nonsense bruiser of a tackler. They don't see Berge do just that and that must equal Berge doing nothing at all. It's like complaining we don't play with a dedicated sweeper just because a couple of decades ago that was my favourite type of player. There are other ways to play football in 2026.

Thanks - ah been at it for a while as a player and coach, but even then I just feel the need to protect players that get a bad rap unnecessarily. Sander Berge is constantly a target, and it's things like how he played today that goes unnoticed. It was him cleaning up in the box when Raul was nut-megged. Berge again sending a 30 yard ball to Wilson for a counter. Berge's critical header that found Wilson perfectly to set up the 3v2 counter-attack that led to Iwobi's goal.

I expect ironic cheers when he does score his goal for us. I think maybe a goal is what is going to get people off his back.

I can't get on board with the Berge praise. I don't expect him to be Pirlo or Scholes, or even Palhinha. But players got past him with a little bits of skill too easily, and he had some miskicks or poor touches in very dangerous areas that could easily have led to goals, never mind his tentative approach when in attacking positions. I know he can be much better than he has played recently and I think he needs a rest but that won't be possible until Lukic is fit.

[Hugh Janus]

I thought we looked very dodgy defensively again. Muniz I thought was dreadful when he came on. I honestly don't see what others do when it comes to Muniz.

Mundle apparently got racially abused. Vermin.

[Matt10]

Not a lot of teams have won there, so I wouldn't call the performance average at all. It was actually brilliant. We showed a lot of quality, but the final ball just wasn't there early on. We contained their high press and had to resort to send more passes into space than what we're used to. Very little build up from the back, so Iwobi and Berge's roles had to be a bit different. They both switched the side they were playing on, and had good understanding when to drop/cover and when to progress.

People say Berge played poorly, and this to me is again a lack of understanding of what his role is. He's not Palhinha, he's not set up to be Palhinha - people need to get over that. Today was actually the first time he looked to be more of an enforcer, but he also found himself protecting the back-line's half space (between CB and RB) and even had to cover for Tete who had drifted too far inside. In the end, Berge had 80% passing, didn't miss a tackle, and broke up what he could - even if it was causing fouls - something he doesn't do very often since Lukic has been out. He lost the ball for the first time in I'm not sure how many games, when Brobbey bodied him off as he had received the ball from ESR in a dangerous position (counter-attack, and ESR passes back into trouble). I said in the match thread that Berge and Iwobi kept Brobbey off the ball because they clogged the middle so well. Even Le Fee' couldn't get anything going until he was forced to drift well wide of where he likes to operate. Yes, Berge should shoot more often, and I'm sure he's hearing that from his teammates as well.

All of this. You do know your footie, mate. Time and time and time again i see people here complaining about Berge. And every single time I feel it is really a complaint about the type of player he is, and the fact that many do not see how vital his positioning, break-up play, and vision are. Most just want a classic, two straight feet in,  no nonsense bruiser of a tackler. They don't see Berge do just that and that must equal Berge doing nothing at all. It's like complaining we don't play with a dedicated sweeper just because a couple of decades ago that was my favourite type of player. There are other ways to play football in 2026.

Thanks - ah been at it for a while as a player and coach, but even then I just feel the need to protect players that get a bad rap unnecessarily. Sander Berge is constantly a target, and it's things like how he played today that goes unnoticed. It was him cleaning up in the box when Raul was nut-megged. Berge again sending a 30 yard ball to Wilson for a counter. Berge's critical header that found Wilson perfectly to set up the 3v2 counter-attack that led to Iwobi's goal.

I expect ironic cheers when he does score his goal for us. I think maybe a goal is what is going to get people off his back.

I can't get on board with the Berge praise. I don't expect him to be Pirlo or Scholes, or even Palhinha. But players got past him with a little bits of skill too easily, and he had some miskicks or poor touches in very dangerous areas that could easily have led to goals, never mind his tentative approach when in attacking positions. I know he can be much better than he has played recently and I think he needs a rest but that won't be possible until Lukic is fit.

I know people's opinions won't change - but I think one player in Enzo Le Fee was the only one who actually got past him, which even then Berge fouled or tackled him. The one miss-kick Berge had was in the very first couple minutes with the sun in his face trying to volley a clearance in his own box. You can tell his teammates trust him with the ball the most because they played the ball back to him several times when pressure was immediately upon him.

I understand you want to say tentative approach, but that again is just a misunderstanding to me. If you look at the majority of our attacks, it starts with a 1-2 touch moment from Berge to someone else that then sends the ball into the areas for the attack. If he doesn't time those passes correctly, such as hesitate or opt to go direct, that counter against us can happen just as fast.

Kevin's wayward shot in the first half for example is where we win the ball in their attacking third, Tete's shot is deflected. If Berge had been up in the box like people want him to be - he wouldn't be there to collect the deflection and protect the back line that is deep into the opponent's half. Because Berge is there to collect the deflection, he plays a simple pass to Iwobi, who draws in the defenders and finds Kevin to shoot on goal.

Another example of what looks tentative is when he's sitting between the two center backs where he positions himself to allow our rotations to happen: Sessegnon tucked in and central, Iwobi from right to central. Again, instead of a direct pass to Sess or ESR central, he lets Iwobi come into view and plays it to him. Iwobi breaks the lines with a pass to ESR, who then finds Sess - who takes the shot with his right just too high.

Berge's role is to set the tempo in the build up. If he's the one who is to be playing direct passes and shooting, how would that work out for our other midfielders? What about the counter? A lower pass % equals a higher % of a counter. We have plenty of creative midfielders to play that role, and it's not Berge. He supplies them, they supply the attacking outlets. It's a formula that works for Silva. It's even what Pep Guardiola designed for Man City where he believes in shorter high % passes because he can position his players to be prepared for counter attacks should they lose possession.

Silva's project in converting Berge from a box-to-box 8 to a tempo setting playmaking 6 is quite remarkable. I just can't understand how so many don't see how valuable this is. I do think Silva will have to decide what to do with Lukic because Iwobi is settling into that 8 role quite well now because he and Berge are starting to develop more of an understanding.

[bencher]

Not a lot of teams have won there, so I wouldn't call the performance average at all. It was actually brilliant. We showed a lot of quality, but the final ball just wasn't there early on. We contained their high press and had to resort to send more passes into space than what we're used to. Very little build up from the back, so Iwobi and Berge's roles had to be a bit different. They both switched the side they were playing on, and had good understanding when to drop/cover and when to progress.

People say Berge played poorly, and this to me is again a lack of understanding of what his role is. He's not Palhinha, he's not set up to be Palhinha - people need to get over that. Today was actually the first time he looked to be more of an enforcer, but he also found himself protecting the back-line's half space (between CB and RB) and even had to cover for Tete who had drifted too far inside. In the end, Berge had 80% passing, didn't miss a tackle, and broke up what he could - even if it was causing fouls - something he doesn't do very often since Lukic has been out. He lost the ball for the first time in I'm not sure how many games, when Brobbey bodied him off as he had received the ball from ESR in a dangerous position (counter-attack, and ESR passes back into trouble). I said in the match thread that Berge and Iwobi kept Brobbey off the ball because they clogged the middle so well. Even Le Fee' couldn't get anything going until he was forced to drift well wide of where he likes to operate. Yes, Berge should shoot more often, and I'm sure he's hearing that from his teammates as well.

All of this. You do know your footie, mate. Time and time and time again i see people here complaining about Berge. And every single time I feel it is really a complaint about the type of player he is, and the fact that many do not see how vital his positioning, break-up play, and vision are. Most just want a classic, two straight feet in,  no nonsense bruiser of a tackler. They don't see Berge do just that and that must equal Berge doing nothing at all. It's like complaining we don't play with a dedicated sweeper just because a couple of decades ago that was my favourite type of player. There are other ways to play football in 2026.

Thanks - ah been at it for a while as a player and coach, but even then I just feel the need to protect players that get a bad rap unnecessarily. Sander Berge is constantly a target, and it's things like how he played today that goes unnoticed. It was him cleaning up in the box when Raul was nut-megged. Berge again sending a 30 yard ball to Wilson for a counter. Berge's critical header that found Wilson perfectly to set up the 3v2 counter-attack that led to Iwobi's goal.

I expect ironic cheers when he does score his goal for us. I think maybe a goal is what is going to get people off his back.

I can't get on board with the Berge praise. I don't expect him to be Pirlo or Scholes, or even Palhinha. But players got past him with a little bits of skill too easily, and he had some miskicks or poor touches in very dangerous areas that could easily have led to goals, never mind his tentative approach when in attacking positions. I know he can be much better than he has played recently and I think he needs a rest but that won't be possible until Lukic is fit.

I know people's opinions won't change - but I think one player in Enzo Le Fee was the only one who actually got past him, which even then Berge fouled or tackled him. The one miss-kick Berge had was in the very first couple minutes with the sun in his face trying to volley a clearance in his own box. You can tell his teammates trust him with the ball the most because they played the ball back to him several times when pressure was immediately upon him.

I understand you want to say tentative approach, but that again is just a misunderstanding to me. If you look at the majority of our attacks, it starts with a 1-2 touch moment from Berge to someone else that then sends the ball into the areas for the attack. If he doesn't time those passes correctly, such as hesitate or opt to go direct, that counter against us can happen just as fast.

Kevin's wayward shot in the first half for example is where we win the ball in their attacking third, Tete's shot is deflected. If Berge had been up in the box like people want him to be - he wouldn't be there to collect the deflection and protect the back line that is deep into the opponent's half. Because Berge is there to collect the deflection, he plays a simple pass to Iwobi, who draws in the defenders and finds Kevin to shoot on goal.

Another example of what looks tentative is when he's sitting between the two center backs where he positions himself to allow our rotations to happen: Sessegnon tucked in and central, Iwobi from right to central. Again, instead of a direct pass to Sess or ESR central, he lets Iwobi come into view and plays it to him. Iwobi breaks the lines with a pass to ESR, who then finds Sess - who takes the shot with his right just too high.

Berge's role is to set the tempo in the build up. If he's the one who is to be playing direct passes and shooting, how would that work out for our other midfielders? What about the counter? A lower pass % equals a higher % of a counter. We have plenty of creative midfielders to play that role, and it's not Berge. He supplies them, they supply the attacking outlets. It's a formula that works for Silva. It's even what Pep Guardiola designed for Man City where he believes in shorter high % passes because he can position his players to be prepared for counter attacks should they lose possession.

Silva's project in converting Berge from a box-to-box 8 to a tempo setting playmaking 6 is quite remarkable. I just can't understand how so many don't see how valuable this is. I do think Silva will have to decide what to do with Lukic because Iwobi is settling into that 8 role quite well now because he and Berge are starting to develop more of an understanding.

You've deliberately commented mostly on the attacking output. That was not my main point, just a minor comment. I can forgive him being conservative and you're right that he shouldn't always be up there, as long as he is reliable in defensive areas. He gives the ball away sloppily on the edge of the box that leads to a clear cut chance for Angulo who really should have scored from about 15 yards out. His awful header against Man City leads to their opening goal. The miskick - come on, sun in his eyes? His forward play was fine overall. He is not playing well in his defensive work -  I know he can, but he isn't.

[Twig]

Not a lot of teams have won there, so I wouldn't call the performance average at all. It was actually brilliant. We showed a lot of quality, but the final ball just wasn't there early on. We contained their high press and had to resort to send more passes into space than what we're used to. Very little build up from the back, so Iwobi and Berge's roles had to be a bit different. They both switched the side they were playing on, and had good understanding when to drop/cover and when to progress.

People say Berge played poorly, and this to me is again a lack of understanding of what his role is. He's not Palhinha, he's not set up to be Palhinha - people need to get over that. Today was actually the first time he looked to be more of an enforcer, but he also found himself protecting the back-line's half space (between CB and RB) and even had to cover for Tete who had drifted too far inside. In the end, Berge had 80% passing, didn't miss a tackle, and broke up what he could - even if it was causing fouls - something he doesn't do very often since Lukic has been out. He lost the ball for the first time in I'm not sure how many games, when Brobbey bodied him off as he had received the ball from ESR in a dangerous position (counter-attack, and ESR passes back into trouble). I said in the match thread that Berge and Iwobi kept Brobbey off the ball because they clogged the middle so well. Even Le Fee' couldn't get anything going until he was forced to drift well wide of where he likes to operate. Yes, Berge should shoot more often, and I'm sure he's hearing that from his teammates as well.

All of this. You do know your footie, mate. Time and time and time again i see people here complaining about Berge. And every single time I feel it is really a complaint about the type of player he is, and the fact that many do not see how vital his positioning, break-up play, and vision are. Most just want a classic, two straight feet in,  no nonsense bruiser of a tackler. They don't see Berge do just that and that must equal Berge doing nothing at all. It's like complaining we don't play with a dedicated sweeper just because a couple of decades ago that was my favourite type of player. There are other ways to play football in 2026.

Thanks - ah been at it for a while as a player and coach, but even then I just feel the need to protect players that get a bad rap unnecessarily. Sander Berge is constantly a target, and it's things like how he played today that goes unnoticed. It was him cleaning up in the box when Raul was nut-megged. Berge again sending a 30 yard ball to Wilson for a counter. Berge's critical header that found Wilson perfectly to set up the 3v2 counter-attack that led to Iwobi's goal.

I expect ironic cheers when he does score his goal for us. I think maybe a goal is what is going to get people off his back.

I can't get on board with the Berge praise. I don't expect him to be Pirlo or Scholes, or even Palhinha. But players got past him with a little bits of skill too easily, and he had some miskicks or poor touches in very dangerous areas that could easily have led to goals, never mind his tentative approach when in attacking positions. I know he can be much better than he has played recently and I think he needs a rest but that won't be possible until Lukic is fit.

I know people's opinions won't change - but I think one player in Enzo Le Fee was the only one who actually got past him, which even then Berge fouled or tackled him. The one miss-kick Berge had was in the very first couple minutes with the sun in his face trying to volley a clearance in his own box. You can tell his teammates trust him with the ball the most because they played the ball back to him several times when pressure was immediately upon him.

I understand you want to say tentative approach, but that again is just a misunderstanding to me. If you look at the majority of our attacks, it starts with a 1-2 touch moment from Berge to someone else that then sends the ball into the areas for the attack. If he doesn't time those passes correctly, such as hesitate or opt to go direct, that counter against us can happen just as fast.

Kevin's wayward shot in the first half for example is where we win the ball in their attacking third, Tete's shot is deflected. If Berge had been up in the box like people want him to be - he wouldn't be there to collect the deflection and protect the back line that is deep into the opponent's half. Because Berge is there to collect the deflection, he plays a simple pass to Iwobi, who draws in the defenders and finds Kevin to shoot on goal.

Another example of what looks tentative is when he's sitting between the two center backs where he positions himself to allow our rotations to happen: Sessegnon tucked in and central, Iwobi from right to central. Again, instead of a direct pass to Sess or ESR central, he lets Iwobi come into view and plays it to him. Iwobi breaks the lines with a pass to ESR, who then finds Sess - who takes the shot with his right just too high.

Berge's role is to set the tempo in the build up. If he's the one who is to be playing direct passes and shooting, how would that work out for our other midfielders? What about the counter? A lower pass % equals a higher % of a counter. We have plenty of creative midfielders to play that role, and it's not Berge. He supplies them, they supply the attacking outlets. It's a formula that works for Silva. It's even what Pep Guardiola designed for Man City where he believes in shorter high % passes because he can position his players to be prepared for counter attacks should they lose possession.

Silva's project in converting Berge from a box-to-box 8 to a tempo setting playmaking 6 is quite remarkable. I just can't understand how so many don't see how valuable this is. I do think Silva will have to decide what to do with Lukic because Iwobi is settling into that 8 role quite well now because he and Berge are starting to develop more of an understanding.

This all gets quite technical but I think I get most of it Matt and thanks for taking the time to explain. I just wanted to add that in my book, because a) we don't play a pressing style and b) we do play a high line, then Berge's role becomes extremely important to our style and set up (you have probably said that better than I can in your posts!). Personally I think he fulfils this role well (yes he could shoot a bit more often), others may disagree but expecting him to significantly change what he does strikes me as counter productive.

[demeant0r]

This is the analysis we get from BBC after the match (about Raul):

"Jimenez's double took his tally to 11 for club and county in 36 appearances this season."

County? I didn't know Raul was eligible to play for London FC?

[hopper]

This is the analysis we get from BBC after the match (about Raul):

"Jimenez's double took his tally to 11 for club and county in 36 appearances this season."

County? I didn't know Raul was eligible to play for London FC?

Small typo, who cares?

[demeant0r]

This is the analysis we get from BBC after the match (about Raul):

"Jimenez's double took his tally to 11 for club and county in 36 appearances this season."

County? I didn't know Raul was eligible to play for London FC?

Small typo, who cares?

I mean professional journalists should be reading back their work at least once. Especially journalists that are paid by public funds or TV license.

[bog]

I thought we played well. For his two goals and hold up play, like when he set up Alex for his blocked shot, I gave MotM to Raul.     

[bigalffc]

Well played Fulham. They kept the legendary home crowd even after they scored. Good to hear out supporters doing the ole's!       

Keeping the tradition going afterwards a pundit called us Sunderland.     

Last week we were called Wolves

Next we'll be called Spurs

No we cannot sink that low.

[Twig]

This is the analysis we get from BBC after the match (about Raul):

"Jimenez's double took his tally to 11 for club and county in 36 appearances this season."

County? I didn't know Raul was eligible to play for London FC?

Sorry but, so what?

[Matt10]

Not a lot of teams have won there, so I wouldn't call the performance average at all. It was actually brilliant. We showed a lot of quality, but the final ball just wasn't there early on. We contained their high press and had to resort to send more passes into space than what we're used to. Very little build up from the back, so Iwobi and Berge's roles had to be a bit different. They both switched the side they were playing on, and had good understanding when to drop/cover and when to progress.

People say Berge played poorly, and this to me is again a lack of understanding of what his role is. He's not Palhinha, he's not set up to be Palhinha - people need to get over that. Today was actually the first time he looked to be more of an enforcer, but he also found himself protecting the back-line's half space (between CB and RB) and even had to cover for Tete who had drifted too far inside. In the end, Berge had 80% passing, didn't miss a tackle, and broke up what he could - even if it was causing fouls - something he doesn't do very often since Lukic has been out. He lost the ball for the first time in I'm not sure how many games, when Brobbey bodied him off as he had received the ball from ESR in a dangerous position (counter-attack, and ESR passes back into trouble). I said in the match thread that Berge and Iwobi kept Brobbey off the ball because they clogged the middle so well. Even Le Fee' couldn't get anything going until he was forced to drift well wide of where he likes to operate. Yes, Berge should shoot more often, and I'm sure he's hearing that from his teammates as well.

All of this. You do know your footie, mate. Time and time and time again i see people here complaining about Berge. And every single time I feel it is really a complaint about the type of player he is, and the fact that many do not see how vital his positioning, break-up play, and vision are. Most just want a classic, two straight feet in,  no nonsense bruiser of a tackler. They don't see Berge do just that and that must equal Berge doing nothing at all. It's like complaining we don't play with a dedicated sweeper just because a couple of decades ago that was my favourite type of player. There are other ways to play football in 2026.

Thanks - ah been at it for a while as a player and coach, but even then I just feel the need to protect players that get a bad rap unnecessarily. Sander Berge is constantly a target, and it's things like how he played today that goes unnoticed. It was him cleaning up in the box when Raul was nut-megged. Berge again sending a 30 yard ball to Wilson for a counter. Berge's critical header that found Wilson perfectly to set up the 3v2 counter-attack that led to Iwobi's goal.

I expect ironic cheers when he does score his goal for us. I think maybe a goal is what is going to get people off his back.

I can't get on board with the Berge praise. I don't expect him to be Pirlo or Scholes, or even Palhinha. But players got past him with a little bits of skill too easily, and he had some miskicks or poor touches in very dangerous areas that could easily have led to goals, never mind his tentative approach when in attacking positions. I know he can be much better than he has played recently and I think he needs a rest but that won't be possible until Lukic is fit.

I know people's opinions won't change - but I think one player in Enzo Le Fee was the only one who actually got past him, which even then Berge fouled or tackled him. The one miss-kick Berge had was in the very first couple minutes with the sun in his face trying to volley a clearance in his own box. You can tell his teammates trust him with the ball the most because they played the ball back to him several times when pressure was immediately upon him.

I understand you want to say tentative approach, but that again is just a misunderstanding to me. If you look at the majority of our attacks, it starts with a 1-2 touch moment from Berge to someone else that then sends the ball into the areas for the attack. If he doesn't time those passes correctly, such as hesitate or opt to go direct, that counter against us can happen just as fast.

Kevin's wayward shot in the first half for example is where we win the ball in their attacking third, Tete's shot is deflected. If Berge had been up in the box like people want him to be - he wouldn't be there to collect the deflection and protect the back line that is deep into the opponent's half. Because Berge is there to collect the deflection, he plays a simple pass to Iwobi, who draws in the defenders and finds Kevin to shoot on goal.

Another example of what looks tentative is when he's sitting between the two center backs where he positions himself to allow our rotations to happen: Sessegnon tucked in and central, Iwobi from right to central. Again, instead of a direct pass to Sess or ESR central, he lets Iwobi come into view and plays it to him. Iwobi breaks the lines with a pass to ESR, who then finds Sess - who takes the shot with his right just too high.

Berge's role is to set the tempo in the build up. If he's the one who is to be playing direct passes and shooting, how would that work out for our other midfielders? What about the counter? A lower pass % equals a higher % of a counter. We have plenty of creative midfielders to play that role, and it's not Berge. He supplies them, they supply the attacking outlets. It's a formula that works for Silva. It's even what Pep Guardiola designed for Man City where he believes in shorter high % passes because he can position his players to be prepared for counter attacks should they lose possession.

Silva's project in converting Berge from a box-to-box 8 to a tempo setting playmaking 6 is quite remarkable. I just can't understand how so many don't see how valuable this is. I do think Silva will have to decide what to do with Lukic because Iwobi is settling into that 8 role quite well now because he and Berge are starting to develop more of an understanding.

You've deliberately commented mostly on the attacking output. That was not my main point, just a minor comment. I can forgive him being conservative and you're right that he shouldn't always be up there, as long as he is reliable in defensive areas. He gives the ball away sloppily on the edge of the box that leads to a clear cut chance for Angulo who really should have scored from about 15 yards out. His awful header against Man City leads to their opening goal. The miskick - come on, sun in his eyes? His forward play was fine overall. He is not playing well in his defensive work -  I know he can, but he isn't.

I didn't deliberately do anything. You had one sentence about his defensive prowess regarding players getting past him too easily. I replied that Le Fee was one that got past him, but even then he fouled or tackled him. I didn't mention the Angulo chance again because I already covered it in my previous post where I saw for the first time in a while that he lost the ball in his possession. I concede on a rewatch that his attempted half volley in like the first 5 minutes was wild in our own box.

Overall, I think the majority of what he does in the attack and defense outweighs what mistakes he makes in other moments. I'm not going to bring up other matches and their specific moments, but cherry picking mistakes relative to goals conceded is low hanging fruit because it takes out the context of the majority. By that logic every player should get criticized and would never make a first team.   

[Matt10]

Not a lot of teams have won there, so I wouldn't call the performance average at all. It was actually brilliant. We showed a lot of quality, but the final ball just wasn't there early on. We contained their high press and had to resort to send more passes into space than what we're used to. Very little build up from the back, so Iwobi and Berge's roles had to be a bit different. They both switched the side they were playing on, and had good understanding when to drop/cover and when to progress.

People say Berge played poorly, and this to me is again a lack of understanding of what his role is. He's not Palhinha, he's not set up to be Palhinha - people need to get over that. Today was actually the first time he looked to be more of an enforcer, but he also found himself protecting the back-line's half space (between CB and RB) and even had to cover for Tete who had drifted too far inside. In the end, Berge had 80% passing, didn't miss a tackle, and broke up what he could - even if it was causing fouls - something he doesn't do very often since Lukic has been out. He lost the ball for the first time in I'm not sure how many games, when Brobbey bodied him off as he had received the ball from ESR in a dangerous position (counter-attack, and ESR passes back into trouble). I said in the match thread that Berge and Iwobi kept Brobbey off the ball because they clogged the middle so well. Even Le Fee' couldn't get anything going until he was forced to drift well wide of where he likes to operate. Yes, Berge should shoot more often, and I'm sure he's hearing that from his teammates as well.

All of this. You do know your footie, mate. Time and time and time again i see people here complaining about Berge. And every single time I feel it is really a complaint about the type of player he is, and the fact that many do not see how vital his positioning, break-up play, and vision are. Most just want a classic, two straight feet in,  no nonsense bruiser of a tackler. They don't see Berge do just that and that must equal Berge doing nothing at all. It's like complaining we don't play with a dedicated sweeper just because a couple of decades ago that was my favourite type of player. There are other ways to play football in 2026.

Thanks - ah been at it for a while as a player and coach, but even then I just feel the need to protect players that get a bad rap unnecessarily. Sander Berge is constantly a target, and it's things like how he played today that goes unnoticed. It was him cleaning up in the box when Raul was nut-megged. Berge again sending a 30 yard ball to Wilson for a counter. Berge's critical header that found Wilson perfectly to set up the 3v2 counter-attack that led to Iwobi's goal.

I expect ironic cheers when he does score his goal for us. I think maybe a goal is what is going to get people off his back.

I can't get on board with the Berge praise. I don't expect him to be Pirlo or Scholes, or even Palhinha. But players got past him with a little bits of skill too easily, and he had some miskicks or poor touches in very dangerous areas that could easily have led to goals, never mind his tentative approach when in attacking positions. I know he can be much better than he has played recently and I think he needs a rest but that won't be possible until Lukic is fit.

I know people's opinions won't change - but I think one player in Enzo Le Fee was the only one who actually got past him, which even then Berge fouled or tackled him. The one miss-kick Berge had was in the very first couple minutes with the sun in his face trying to volley a clearance in his own box. You can tell his teammates trust him with the ball the most because they played the ball back to him several times when pressure was immediately upon him.

I understand you want to say tentative approach, but that again is just a misunderstanding to me. If you look at the majority of our attacks, it starts with a 1-2 touch moment from Berge to someone else that then sends the ball into the areas for the attack. If he doesn't time those passes correctly, such as hesitate or opt to go direct, that counter against us can happen just as fast.

Kevin's wayward shot in the first half for example is where we win the ball in their attacking third, Tete's shot is deflected. If Berge had been up in the box like people want him to be - he wouldn't be there to collect the deflection and protect the back line that is deep into the opponent's half. Because Berge is there to collect the deflection, he plays a simple pass to Iwobi, who draws in the defenders and finds Kevin to shoot on goal.

Another example of what looks tentative is when he's sitting between the two center backs where he positions himself to allow our rotations to happen: Sessegnon tucked in and central, Iwobi from right to central. Again, instead of a direct pass to Sess or ESR central, he lets Iwobi come into view and plays it to him. Iwobi breaks the lines with a pass to ESR, who then finds Sess - who takes the shot with his right just too high.

Berge's role is to set the tempo in the build up. If he's the one who is to be playing direct passes and shooting, how would that work out for our other midfielders? What about the counter? A lower pass % equals a higher % of a counter. We have plenty of creative midfielders to play that role, and it's not Berge. He supplies them, they supply the attacking outlets. It's a formula that works for Silva. It's even what Pep Guardiola designed for Man City where he believes in shorter high % passes because he can position his players to be prepared for counter attacks should they lose possession.

Silva's project in converting Berge from a box-to-box 8 to a tempo setting playmaking 6 is quite remarkable. I just can't understand how so many don't see how valuable this is. I do think Silva will have to decide what to do with Lukic because Iwobi is settling into that 8 role quite well now because he and Berge are starting to develop more of an understanding.

This all gets quite technical but I think I get most of it Matt and thanks for taking the time to explain. I just wanted to add that in my book, because a) we don't play a pressing style and b) we do play a high line, then Berge's role becomes extremely important to our style and set up (you have probably said that better than I can in your posts!). Personally I think he fulfils this role well (yes he could shoot a bit more often), others may disagree but expecting him to significantly change what he does strikes me as counter productive.

This is what I like about Silva. He has a core system, but he adjusts it based on the player roles that fit that individual player. I've enjoyed seeing the progression of players and the freedom they're given. Sess going central worked a lot of the time yesterday, or Iwobi and Berge switching sides to get Sunderland's man marking out of sorts.