A question for the group

[Forever Fulham]

I've been reading everyone's comments and speculation about when, if ever, Jol will get the axe.  And as I do, the notion of "Follow the Money" keeps coming back to me.  By that, I mean, what is Khan's motive in buying the club?  I think it's ultimately financial.  I'm guessing he thinks he needs Fulham FFC for his larger, unexplained, plans regarding the Jaguars.  He's no Abramowitz, willing to spend ridiculous sums to bask in a vanity play.  And Ali Mack--what's his motive?  Income plus the excitement of running an EPL team.  Not just any football team.  An EPL team. 

Walk a while on this theme with me.  If the team gets relegated, they get a parachute for one year in the Championship, right?  And after that?  The better players will have already scattered.  The club revenue will be a fraction of what it is now.  The attendance will be way down.  Won't that mean the club will have to let a lot of employees go?  What happens to Ali Mack?  Can they afford to keep him at his current salary and benefits?  Would he even stay?  And surely he knows how hard it is to climb back up from Championship, once relegated. 

So, if relegation means a loss of jobs, a loss of income, salaries slashed for those not eliminated, a loss of major income to Khan, then why hasn't Jol been given the boot by now?  Seriously, follow the money.  Isn't that what they always say: Follow the money?  What motive would Kahn's financial motive be in keeping Jol on another day?By now, the general press has picked up on the enormous drop off in quality of play, the mounting losses.  Pundits are coming out of the woodwork commenting on Jol and the players' performances.  Many of you have uploaded some of the more interesting ones for the group to read.  So, with all of the growing press, our bad-and-getting-worse situation isn't hidden under a bushel.  EVERYONE knows about it now.  I have to believe Khan is fully aware of it and has heard an earful about Jol, about replacing him, about bringing in quality players to fill holes, and so on.  Yet each day passes with no announcement of change.  Why? 

Could it be that Khan never intended to keep Fulham up?  Has anyone ever come across a study of the value of the land for high-end residential development?  Or for any kind of maximized value redevelopment?  Just asking, because this is otherwise looking like Theatre of the Absurd to me.  This prolonged inaction just doesn't make sense.  He's supposed to be a man of decisive action.  Well?...

We like to think that because he is a Pakistani-American, he doesn't really understand about relegation.  Let's put that theory to bed once and for all, shall we?  We like to think that because he lives across the Atlantic, he is somehow not fully aware of the goings-on.  Can we put that one to bed as well?  So, if he isn't going to act quickly, is it because he is satisfied if the team goes down--for reasons not quite clear, but which must be somehow money-motivated.  Or is it that he doesn't want to seem like a quick-trigger guy who will drop a head manager as soon as things take a bad turn?  I think that that bad turn has happened quite some time ago, don't you?  So, is he buying B.S. from Jol, is that it?  Has Jol been able to effectively deflect blame (in Khan's eyes) onto his players?  Nothing makes sense to me.  Has to be money-centric at this point.  I don't see Khan as a billionaire auto parts ditherer, do you?

[Admin]

Trust me, NO American owner wants to have a club outside the Premiership, especially a 200 million pound investment playing football in the Championship. You're right, Khan is a businessman, it is all about the money, but if you want my honest opinion, I think he has been slightly miss advised when taking over the club. Not about the potential of Fulham, but about the current state of the first team and how much investment it required.

Firstly, Khan was advised by, I'm assuming Mackintosh, that the 'current plan' was good enough to run with. Khan, not knowing a lot about football, has trusted his advisors to get it right, but they've clearly not. From this, Khan has said OK, and I'll monitor it for a season, fair enough, why not.

I myself was a bit gob-smacked when we didn't invest any money into that squad. It's been desperate for investment for the last 3-4 season and I'd have thought the club would have said to Khan that it needs a revamp. After this, we can then build things slowly, success with growth, stability etc, but no.

The 'current plan' of freebies, old, and aging players was designed for another season under Maf, not Khan. I think someone has tried to be clever here or earn brownie points by trying to save money, but didn't expect other teams like Swansea, Norwich, Southampton and the likes to invest heavily around us.

Khan is now stuck between a rock and a hard place. He's been advised on one thing, and it clearly isn't working. The transfer window has passed, we're stuck with the current squad until January, and we have a manager that isn't performing. Fine, fire him, but is there really anyone else out there at this moment in time that can get a best out of this squad? As much I can't stand Jol, my initial thoughts are no.

[Rudolph]

Here is another thing.  Say Jol gets 3 or 4 wins under his belt this side of January, what do you think the mood will be?  Will there be a mood similar to Blackburn with the crowd wanting the manager out at any cost?

I am not backing Jol at all here, but I can remember the venomous atmosphere created at Blackburn, with the crowd turning on Kean.  Their need to have their way coming above getting behind the team and providing support needed during big games.  My biggest fear is that the same mentality will descend on us and we will be in a no win situation.

[Pluto]

Admin is right- Khan took over and made all these noises about sustainability, sticking with our current path, not wanting to rock the boat, wanting to take a season to assess the situation.....

The problem is in the PL you can't do that. Teams around us like Cardiff, Swansea and Norwich spent upwards of £40m to maximise their chances of survival. Stand still and you go backwards. Our squad NEEDED investment- anyone who watched the club since January could have told you that. How bad were we at the end of last season? Wasn't it 6 or 7 defeats on the bounce and one home win....The path we were on was headed straight for relegation.

We've been starved of investment for years. The playing squad is old, tired and badly in need of revamping. To not invest when every team around us did was a huge gamble by Khan which won't pay off. That might fly in the NFL where you get time to assess and rebuild, but not in the PL. Whether he was just insufficiently informed about the quality of the team, or whether he's just not committed I don't know. The fact that we re-signed Karagounis, and at nearly 37 he's still probably our best CM was telling.

I want to raise one more point. I think for his ineptitude in realising the extent of the situation Ali Mac needs to go. He has no excuse. Further, we were told by him that the club "secured all our targets during the transfer window". Well the clubs own communications show that's rubbish:

Jol in Fulltime: "We couldn't afford James McCarthy so I had to take Scott Parker".

Clearly the Khan was unwilling to stump up the funds for the players Jol wanted and we needed, and Ali Mac just stood idly by and watched. The sooner all three are out of our club the better in my view.

[Deanothefulhamfan]

We will get serious investment in January I am confident in that... Khan cannot let us slip down after his first season.

He is a very good businessman, so will do whatever it takes to keep us up.

[premFlem]

I've been reading everyone's comments and speculation about when, if ever, Jol will get the axe.  And as I do, the notion of "Follow the Money" keeps coming back to me.  By that, I mean, what is Khan's motive in buying the club?  I think it's ultimately financial.  I'm guessing he thinks he needs Fulham FFC for his larger, unexplained, plans regarding the Jaguars.  He's no Abramowitz, willing to spend ridiculous sums to bask in a vanity play.  And Ali Mack--what's his motive?  Income plus the excitement of running an EPL team.  Not just any football team.  An EPL team. 

Walk a while on this theme with me.  If the team gets relegated, they get a parachute for one year in the Championship, right?  And after that?  The better players will have already scattered.  The club revenue will be a fraction of what it is now.  The attendance will be way down.  Won't that mean the club will have to let a lot of employees go?  What happens to Ali Mack?  Can they afford to keep him at his current salary and benefits?  Would he even stay?  And surely he knows how hard it is to climb back up from Championship, once relegated. 

So, if relegation means a loss of jobs, a loss of income, salaries slashed for those not eliminated, a loss of major income to Khan, then why hasn't Jol been given the boot by now?  Seriously, follow the money.  Isn't that what they always say: Follow the money?  What motive would Kahn's financial motive be in keeping Jol on another day?By now, the general press has picked up on the enormous drop off in quality of play, the mounting losses.  Pundits are coming out of the woodwork commenting on Jol and the players' performances.  Many of you have uploaded some of the more interesting ones for the group to read.  So, with all of the growing press, our bad-and-getting-worse situation isn't hidden under a bushel.  EVERYONE knows about it now.  I have to believe Khan is fully aware of it and has heard an earful about Jol, about replacing him, about bringing in quality players to fill holes, and so on.  Yet each day passes with no announcement of change.  Why? 

Could it be that Khan never intended to keep Fulham up?  Has anyone ever come across a study of the value of the land for high-end residential development?  Or for any kind of maximized value redevelopment?  Just asking, because this is otherwise looking like Theatre of the Absurd to me.  This prolonged inaction just doesn't make sense.  He's supposed to be a man of decisive action.  Well?...

We like to think that because he is a Pakistani-American, he doesn't really understand about relegation.  Let's put that theory to bed once and for all, shall we?  We like to think that because he lives across the Atlantic, he is somehow not fully aware of the goings-on.  Can we put that one to bed as well?  So, if he isn't going to act quickly, is it because he is satisfied if the team goes down--for reasons not quite clear, but which must be somehow money-motivated.  Or is it that he doesn't want to seem like a quick-trigger guy who will drop a head manager as soon as things take a bad turn?  I think that that bad turn has happened quite some time ago, don't you?  So, is he buying B.S. from Jol, is that it?  Has Jol been able to effectively deflect blame (in Khan's eyes) onto his players?  Nothing makes sense to me.  Has to be money-centric at this point.  I don't see Khan as a billionaire auto parts ditherer, do you?

Very good post I can see exactly where youre coming from on this, personally the bottom dollar to me is that Jol is very much macs and the boards chosen man and even with the dire tactics coaching etc their  running scared of sacking him and possibly still going down and would risk leaving sacking Jol to the very last minute ie xmas time, but the paying fans simply cant  suffer that scenario and are demanding prompt action

[Moussa Dembele the 3rd]

I agree Pluto, Ali Mac had a disastrous summer and needs to go as well.

[Me-ate-Live, innit??]

IMO Khan has been consistent and clear from the start.  He said he was not going to make any immediate changes and we were left in on doubt that the current Manager and CEO would continue with their short term plan. He said it was right to look at the re-development of the Riverside.  The fans only asked for MJ to go and Khan got rid of him.
.................the fans asked for the  removal of the wrong MJ.

Stating that there is a lack of investment  is not strictly true, we have one of the best  Academy's in the country and you do not get that from lack of investment.  The wages of Berbatov, Riisa  and Bent alone  would pay the wages of 6 /7 young hungry  good quality players.
I do not believe anything that comes out of Jol's mouth. In particular his comment on McCarthy v Parker, I would question if indeed he knows anything about McCarthy. He only knows players he has worked with, his favourites (and he has got most of them together at Fulham ).

Lets not loose sight of the reason we are in our current demise, we have watched our players, week on week turning out against their opposite number with clearly no knowledge of their MO.  Our players are unfit and appear to be strangers on the field of play, with little knowledge of each others game.  They are not prepared physically or mentally. 
That is the fault of the Team's Management and only them.
I suspect Jol on first meeting (and 2nd) ..... may appear impressive so perhaps  Khan was blind sided ???
Throwing a load of money and getting in another bunch of strangers in January is not going to help build a team or move us up the table it need a change, a new ethos.




 

[RaySmith]

Jol hasn't had much choice than to get a bunch of strangers to try and play together - because he has had to get whoever was available and affordable, and yes, maybe top players he'd worked with before were attracted to come to the club near the end of their careers.

Teams like Soton and Swansea have spent a lot of money bringing in their top young players, and blending youth and experience into a team.

Fulham probably has about the same percentage of home developed youth in and around the first team as any other squad - well, more than the top six probaby. And even then, many of the Fulham  youngsters are bought from abroad, rather than native talent.

Agree with Admin that Khan deffo won't want us dropping out the Prem, and that he was advised that we  had enough talent to stay up under Jol, while he, Khan, assesses the situation.

Agree also that we need major investment in the squad, and have done for some time - history might see Jol as doing well under the circumstances, and we have been v unlucky this season, and now the team seems scared and low in confidence, and  unable to play to its potential.

Also, as said, we have to wait til Jan for  new players, so who is out there who can come in and turn things round managerially without this investment?. I think Khan knows that you should make these decisions with care, and avoid panic choices.

[The Old Count]

I hope this isn't going to turn into another 'there's no one else out there' thread'?

The points are well made regarding Khan's motives.  However, and trust me on this, development of the ground for non community / football purposes is out of the question.
Even if you could get the various covenants preventing development removed and get the Local Authority plan changed and get a High Court Review of the density requirements for the area the time scale and expense would render the proposition non viable, at least for twenty years.
There are a lot easier ways to invest 200 million quid out there.

So Khan's motives have to be what he has stated.

Unfortunately, he has found himself in a position where he will have to make decisions that are out of his comfort zone given that he hasn't had time to familiarise himself with the club, EPL, football etc.

[bulgariawhite]

Serious investment in January??? If this slide continues, what even half decent players would want to come here, without us paying rediculous wages like QPR did. That didn't work did it? Not only that, how much time would it take to gel as a team. I don't know the answers, I cannot see a light. We do need action now, and a new approach and fresh management might spur things on.

[Forever Fulham]

I appreciate the serious responses.  So let's assume Ally Mack gave bad or overly optimistic advice to Khan or his people.  And let's assume Khan trusted him and held off replacing talent when the window was still open, held off replacing Jol when even a blind person could see it wasn't working.  Now we are in mid November and the slide to relegation looks even more inevitable.  And Khan still hasn't replaced Jol.  Why?  The longer he waits, the less time Jol's replacement will have to exert his influence on the team, the less time he will have to mold, reshape, persuade, cajole, get them in the shape they haven't been in all year, buying into a new system.  It makes no business sense to wait any longer to fire Jol, and replace him with a true manager.  One more thing:  What manager worth anything would publicly state that he wanted player X but had to settle for the player he has.  What a way to alienate Scott Parker!  KCat is right: We have watched the slow slide week after week and witnessed players getting worse.  How much worse must they play before Khan knows he must act now?  In the Kean situation, Blackburn didn't have an owner with such vast wealth as Khan is presumed to have at his disposal. If Khan really is getting his information through a filter supplied by Mac, then Mac must go as well.  What a mess.  No honeymoon period allowed.  S.O.S.  Mayday.  I repeat, Mayday.  If anyone can hear me.  Help.  My boat went down five weeks ago, and the lifeboat is leaking water.  Can only bail so fast.  My arms are getting tired.  Sharks circling.  Help.  Mayday.  I repeat, Mayday.  Last sighting:  just off the Thames and taking on water.  Must get to the shipping channel for rescue.  No more flares left.  Mates have stopped bailing.  No one will continue to paddle.  Survivors have taken to pouting.  Claim to have lost their appetite.  We were provided this map from the First Officer, but still no land in sight. 

[LBNo11]

...an interesting post and some interesting responses.

Just a couple of points:-

People talk about Alistair MacIntosh being culpable for the decline for not spending the money, they make it sound like it comes out of his own pocket! He is the CEO, not the benefactor. He is given a budget and has to target players with the manager and negotiate with agents to secure contracts within the budget constraints. He is a good CEO and knows the score and he is aware of the clamour to rid us of the manager, and we don't know the limitations of funding in the last two seasons of Mr Fayed's tenure, and we certainly have no idea what treasure chest Mr Khan will make available in the highly inflated winter transfer market.

Shahid Khan is an enigma, nobody here really knows him, or what his intentions are apart from the brief glimpses of him saying what we want to hear, albeit without any substance. The Kudos and cache of owning a Premier League club that is also a conduit for promoting the image and brand of his Jaguars team into the European marketplace has to be of vital importance to him, a championship club will not give him that - so following the money, why would he pay a huge amount of money for a football club and let the investment wither on the vine? I doubt he would get his money back on the 'real-estate' value of the locations of Craven Cottage and Motspur Park together.

We can only wait and see what happens in the next two months to see the intentions, but a statement from the club should be made without further delay so that the paying fans can rest easy - or otherwise...

[TonyGilroy]

Easy to be wise after the event and there are certainly posters here who can say that they always opposed Jol.

I didn't and I think that's true of most. I was broadly pleased with our summer transfer business and expected us to have a decent season. I still don't really know why it's imploded so badly.

So I think Khan and Mackintosh were entitled to feel that we'd be OK this season and that Khan could play himself in gently.

To be fair we had two wins in a row only a few weeks ago and Khan sampled a euphoric atmosphere at Palace.

The only way his investment makes any sense is to keep us in the Premier League and grow the Fulham brand internationally.

[FFC1987]

I know the club will be worth significantly less but seriously, how much is the land worth on the Thames? Regarding the valuation of the club, this won't reduce, if anything,increase each year!

[TonyGilroy]

I know the club will be worth significantly less but seriously, how much is the land worth on the Thames? Regarding the valuation of the club, this won't reduce, if anything,increase each year!

Thought to be £30M 10 years ago.

There would be enormous difficulties in getting planning permission if it meant the death of the club. Easier if part of a relocation.

If Khan had £200M to spend on property development he'd not be buying Craven Cottage. Plenty of empty land in Florida.

[FFC1987]

I know the club will be worth significantly less but seriously, how much is the land worth on the Thames? Regarding the valuation of the club, this won't reduce, if anything,increase each year!

Thought to be £30M 10 years ago.

There would be enormous difficulties in getting planning permission if it meant the death of the club. Easier if part of a relocation.

If Khan had £200M to spend on property development he'd not be buying Craven Cottage. Plenty of empty land in Florida.

My point wasn't about relocation or actually selling the land itself, just that it remains an asset on the clubs books meaning the clubs valuation would still be relatively high considering all things. (he'd still lose a significant amount though obviously)

[The Old Count]

I know the club will be worth significantly less but seriously, how much is the land worth on the Thames? Regarding the valuation of the club, this won't reduce, if anything,increase each year!

As I mentioned before, It would be virtually impossible to develop the ground in the next twenty years.  There are better places to spend 200 million quid if it's just a development opportunity you're after.

The value of the land is less now than it was a ten years ago.

[FFC1987]

I know the club will be worth significantly less but seriously, how much is the land worth on the Thames? Regarding the valuation of the club, this won't reduce, if anything,increase each year!

As I mentioned before, It would be virtually impossible to develop the ground in the next twenty years.  There are better places to spend 200 million quid if it's just a development opportunity you're after.

The value of the land is less now than it was a ten years ago.

The land itself hasn't depreciated in value. That much I'm certain on.

[The Old Count]

Easy to be wise after the event and there are certainly posters here who can say that they always opposed Jol.

I didn't and I think that's true of most. I was broadly pleased with our summer transfer business and expected us to have a decent season. I still don't really know why it's imploded so badly.

So I think Khan and Mackintosh were entitled to feel that we'd be OK this season and that Khan could play himself in gently.

To be fair we had two wins in a row only a few weeks ago and Khan sampled a euphoric atmosphere at Palace.

The only way his investment makes any sense is to keep us in the Premier League and grow the Fulham brand internationally.

I would like it on record that I never wanted Mr Jol at this club.  And I received no end of abuse at the time for that opinion.

(Mind you, at the time, I did say I would rather have O'Neill so I can't be too smug about it)