NFR Cecil RIP

[bramble]

Here is a link to a petition calling for a ban on trophy imports. If you feel strongly about this, please do sign and forward to anyone you feel may be sympathetic. This is one way to make a real and positive contribution.  https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_africas_lions_loc_rb_en_2_ajx/?bEAkWdb&v=62789

[nose]

I want to speak to the claim that Palmer is being singled out unfairly for a practice that has been going on for a long time.
it is irrelevant how long a practice has beeing going on
cild abuse went on for years as did slavery, as di wife beating etc etc and they were all wrong, the length of time they went on for is totally irelevant, the reason they happened was because of physical strength.... time did not make time any more correct.

The simple truth is that the paradigm has shifted and we are no longer living in the same world we inhabited even five years ago. Information now spreads like a wildfire across online social circles. The public shaming of Palmer isn't an anomaly that will be soon forgotten; it is a harbinger of things to come. The genie will not be let back in the bottle (unless one of those wicked radiation sun storms actually does occur and sends us all back to the Stone Age). Public awareness of the issue has reached a tipping point overnight. This will happen more and more.

A story from earlier tonight: here in America, the baseball trading window closes in 36 hours. A few hours ago, news of a major trade became public knowledge. In fact, one player was shown crying on the field because he was about to leave the only organization he ever knew and everyone in attendance was aware of the fact. But sure enough, the trade was canceled less than an hour later because one team didn't like the medical report it received. Everyone in baseball is talking about this unprecedented event: a trade was agreed upon, players involved were named and informed, and because of social media, the public knew. Surely this wasn't the first time a trade was scuttled at the last moment, but it was the first time it played out in the public domain. The analysts are asking each other, "Have you ever seen anything like this??" No, but they will again. And again.

palmer is being singled out extremely fairly
it is scandalous to even begin to want to suggest he isn't
the media if it chose to could close down hunting in a week!
well nearly but there is
a) no perceived money in it although I would suggest promoting anti hunting could be far more lucrative
and
b) too many of the hunting murdering mob are running the show, old school tie, big business men and so on

he is defintiel not being singled out and if the story was dropped in the USA well that is another black mark to your media... bu te way ours is just as bad


i also have now heard it said pro hunting money helps conservation by spending in areas to [protect wildlife that would otherwise have died out.... what a lot of of rubbish that is.... if these people were wildlife lovers they wouldn't kill it they would leave it be.     

the issue is simple, hunters kill for sport, for the love of killing an unarmed unprotected entity with no chance of self defence or no choice. that is why it morally wrong and reprehensible.... this guy was a name we can point our anger at and the lion was a name we could identify with and feel sorry for and ashamed one of our kind killed him. it will hopefully mobilise a bit of world support to get hunting stopped once and for all... i hope the wprlds children notice and bring pressure on their neadedatal parents!

Hunters' money does help with conservation of both habitat and wildlife in general.

And if there wasn't a culling of deer by hunters each year in the area where I live, there would be over population and starvation. That is a fact. And, no, natural selection isn't the best solution in this case. For you to suggest such, shows how ignorant you are to the matter.

u never read wat i said
i didnt mention culling or natural selection although i know a vast amount. Do not presume to know anything about me by what i have not said.
Mentioned killing as a sport
culling is only needed because humans are out of control in the way they breed and over farm

Hunting for sport is the issue
culling where essential can be done relatively humanely by professionals

You ask me not to presume things about you, yet just previous to that you've presumed something about me. I did read every word that you said. I also paid close attention to the way that you made the lines (now bolded above, admittedly, as I should have made them when I commented previously) a singular issue. This is what I was responding to.

You are right that culling (in this case deer are a good example) is necessary because of overhunting of top tier predators as well as human "progress" robbing those predators of their habitat needs which has created extinctions or near extinctions.

I am curious what "humane culling by professionals" means. I understand the literal meaning of the words, of course. I would like to understand what it means in practice. And which governments are funding such efforts? Where I have my personal experience, the government has reached out to the hunting community for assistance and made specific changes to the hunting 'limits' as a means of population control. The practice may not jibe with your experience or beliefs but, it is the truth. It did work. And, limited governmental funding was put to better use IMHO.

You also broadly characterized hunting as being driven by the love of killing (in your final paragraph; bolded above). You don't specify trophy hunting. I don't love to kill. If I did, I wouldn't be a football fan. I'd be out burning ants with magnifying glass while I waited for the next hunting season to start. For me, I like the meat of the deer. I like to eat freshwater fish (largemouth bass, trout, and catfish, specifically). And I like to eat quail from time to time. I have friends who like the same kind of eating who I can share the food with as well. I don't have trophy heads on my walls or anything of the sort.

You r dealing in semantics and should perfectly know exactly what this thread is about....hunting as in for sport... no more no less...... my meaning was100% clear
i really hate it when we have to explain the obvious
killing humanely by the way is attempting to deal with a problem by causing the minimum suffering!!!   I hope you cope with that and do not expect me to list every method for every species.


[/quote

[ToodlesMcToot]

I want to speak to the claim that Palmer is being singled out unfairly for a practice that has been going on for a long time.
it is irrelevant how long a practice has beeing going on
cild abuse went on for years as did slavery, as di wife beating etc etc and they were all wrong, the length of time they went on for is totally irelevant, the reason they happened was because of physical strength.... time did not make time any more correct.

The simple truth is that the paradigm has shifted and we are no longer living in the same world we inhabited even five years ago. Information now spreads like a wildfire across online social circles. The public shaming of Palmer isn't an anomaly that will be soon forgotten; it is a harbinger of things to come. The genie will not be let back in the bottle (unless one of those wicked radiation sun storms actually does occur and sends us all back to the Stone Age). Public awareness of the issue has reached a tipping point overnight. This will happen more and more.

A story from earlier tonight: here in America, the baseball trading window closes in 36 hours. A few hours ago, news of a major trade became public knowledge. In fact, one player was shown crying on the field because he was about to leave the only organization he ever knew and everyone in attendance was aware of the fact. But sure enough, the trade was canceled less than an hour later because one team didn't like the medical report it received. Everyone in baseball is talking about this unprecedented event: a trade was agreed upon, players involved were named and informed, and because of social media, the public knew. Surely this wasn't the first time a trade was scuttled at the last moment, but it was the first time it played out in the public domain. The analysts are asking each other, "Have you ever seen anything like this??" No, but they will again. And again.

palmer is being singled out extremely fairly
it is scandalous to even begin to want to suggest he isn't
the media if it chose to could close down hunting in a week!
well nearly but there is
a) no perceived money in it although I would suggest promoting anti hunting could be far more lucrative
and
b) too many of the hunting murdering mob are running the show, old school tie, big business men and so on

he is defintiel not being singled out and if the story was dropped in the USA well that is another black mark to your media... bu te way ours is just as bad


i also have now heard it said pro hunting money helps conservation by spending in areas to [protect wildlife that would otherwise have died out.... what a lot of of rubbish that is.... if these people were wildlife lovers they wouldn't kill it they would leave it be.     

the issue is simple, hunters kill for sport, for the love of killing an unarmed unprotected entity with no chance of self defence or no choice. that is why it morally wrong and reprehensible.... this guy was a name we can point our anger at and the lion was a name we could identify with and feel sorry for and ashamed one of our kind killed him. it will hopefully mobilise a bit of world support to get hunting stopped once and for all... i hope the wprlds children notice and bring pressure on their neadedatal parents!

Hunters' money does help with conservation of both habitat and wildlife in general.

And if there wasn't a culling of deer by hunters each year in the area where I live, there would be over population and starvation. That is a fact. And, no, natural selection isn't the best solution in this case. For you to suggest such, shows how ignorant you are to the matter.

u never read wat i said
i didnt mention culling or natural selection although i know a vast amount. Do not presume to know anything about me by what i have not said.
Mentioned killing as a sport
culling is only needed because humans are out of control in the way they breed and over farm

Hunting for sport is the issue
culling where essential can be done relatively humanely by professionals

You ask me not to presume things about you, yet just previous to that you've presumed something about me. I did read every word that you said. I also paid close attention to the way that you made the lines (now bolded above, admittedly, as I should have made them when I commented previously) a singular issue. This is what I was responding to.

You are right that culling (in this case deer are a good example) is necessary because of overhunting of top tier predators as well as human "progress" robbing those predators of their habitat needs which has created extinctions or near extinctions.

I am curious what "humane culling by professionals" means. I understand the literal meaning of the words, of course. I would like to understand what it means in practice. And which governments are funding such efforts? Where I have my personal experience, the government has reached out to the hunting community for assistance and made specific changes to the hunting 'limits' as a means of population control. The practice may not jibe with your experience or beliefs but, it is the truth. It did work. And, limited governmental funding was put to better use IMHO.

You also broadly characterized hunting as being driven by the love of killing (in your final paragraph; bolded above). You don't specify trophy hunting. I don't love to kill. If I did, I wouldn't be a football fan. I'd be out burning ants with magnifying glass while I waited for the next hunting season to start. For me, I like the meat of the deer. I like to eat freshwater fish (largemouth bass, trout, and catfish, specifically). And I like to eat quail from time to time. I have friends who like the same kind of eating who I can share the food with as well. I don't have trophy heads on my walls or anything of the sort.

You r dealing in semantics and should perfectly know exactly what this thread is about....hunting as in for sport... no more no less...... my meaning was100% clear
i really hate it when we have to explain the obvious
killing humanely by the way is attempting to deal with a problem by causing the minimum suffering!!!   I hope you cope with that and do not expect me to list every method for every species.


[/quote

You're right. You were clear. I responded clearly also. You say I'm dealing in semantics. I happen to think that you are now hiding behind them  

I don't expect you to list every method for every species. I'd like to hear your humane deer culling methods   just the one.

[Forever Fulham]

Toodles and Nose, you're talking past each other.  And getting angry over nothing. 

[Nick Bateman]

I would like to reiterate my abhorrence of the reprehensible and wilfull "murder" of a magnificent animal Cecil the lion, by this cowardly American poacher.  Him, and his type do not deserve to be titled "Hunter", as this conjures up a vision of some dangerous pastime where there is a fair chance to the prey. 

These dastardly poltroons are accompanied by several more seasoned game-killers, all armed to the teeth in an event of something going wrong, but the target has very little chance of survival.

It is not therefore "sport" as it has also been described for the reasons I've mentioned.  This particular dentist made a fortune in his practise and decided to invest in the slaughtering of other creatures to satisfy his inglorious bloodlust.  It is unfortunate, that many of the people with wealth become more depraved as they crave more outlandish thrills.

One does not wish to denigrate the entire nation of America, but so-called 'hunting' is encouraged and promoted, and guns are prelavent in their everyday lives.  If one has a gun, what is one supposed to do with it??  Obviously shooting a creature is the natural progression.

But in this particular case, it was a well-known individual lion that was deliberately singled out, and the dentist's dishonest denials show what a low-life he is.  The way they entrapped the lion, luring it out of a sanctuary and the prolonged death because the "tooth fairy" was a useless shot!!

It matters that it was Cecil, more than say a fox, even though both may suffer equally.  A lion is at the apex of the food chain, one of the most magnificent beasts in the wild, and vermin such as this dentist will always try to claim a "trophy" from them.  But it mattered more when Elvis died more than say a middle-aged man with a drug problem, so the same applies to Cecil.

I had never heard of this big cat before, because of my lack of knowledge in that area: I now know more about him in his unnecesary and premature cowardly slaying which has offended and peturbed many decent-minded folk world-wide.

And if America truly wish to send out a message that they do not condone the actions of this lowly individual, they should allow him to be extradited to the country the offence occured to face the full wrath of their justice.

Personally I would have all poachers shot!

[The Equalizer]

Botswana have banned sport hunting after the Cecil and Jericho incidents. Well done Botswana!

http://www.enca.com/africa/botswana-bans-sports-hunters-after-cecil