NFR Cecil RIP

[ToodlesMcToot]

This has  nothing to do with what people eat.
This is about a guy who has paid money to go kill
and skin for fun,and not for the first time.
I think you are trying to make excuses for him..
By the way not a Vegan,but I'm a vegetarian,but this
thread isn't about the rights and wrongs of eating meat.

MnT, the OP graduated from the specific event of the killing of this lion by mid-post. The thread has been largely about hunting in general since.

[ToodlesMcToot]

It is a sickening event and typical of an American who throws his money around to feed a depraved lifestyle which is encouraged by U.S. "culture", if they actually have any culture.  The only Yank who doesn't throw his money around is Khan.

Bigotry.

[Lighthouse]

Why the indignation and childish attacks on this bloke? Big game has been hunted for decades to the point where animals are becoming close to extinction. Where were all the brave name calling people then? The fact that we are so upset means I hope we will all join organisations to stop poaching and the transport of animal parts across borders.

This dentist is the tip of a very big pile of animal corpses. We must stop being brave and having a go at him and do something to stop ALL hunting. However we must also  understand that animals will need to be culled and controlled in some areas. Some animals will cease to exist as they are sometimes bred for the purpose of hunting. Wonder how many will forget about it once it is out of the news and their shock and disgust will move onto some other easy target?

Not everyone has the cash to throw around and donate to countless charities. Back when I used to actually care about having a real job and living the suburban dream, I used to donate a fair amount of my money to charities that aided the fight against Dolphin culling. The life I lead now does not allow me any spare cash in my budget to donate to charities other than the ones my work automatically takes out of my wages. People protesting and mocking this guy is just. There is no indignation towards this guy and he deserves every bit of abuse he gets. Yes there is some childish crap being said on twitter, but that is the nature of the beast that is social media. Accountability is a massive step in stopping this. People care less about breaking laws then they do about being named and shamed.

The argument that big game hunting has been around for decades is as ridiculous as a Nick Bateman post. There is a lot of out dated sh!t that was once the norm but is now completely unacceptable.

Yes, the dentist is the tip of the Iceberg, yet it has to start somewhere. To not condemn this fool and do nothing would be a huge blow to the efforts of stopping this ridiculous blood sport. It might be bad luck for they guy to be hated around the world and be the face of a movement, but only he is responsible for his actions. I doubt anyone put a gun to his head and told him to "fly to Zimbabwe, lure a lion out of a protected sanctuary, mortally wound it with a crossbow, wait for it to bleed out then skin it." Whether he willed it or not, he has presented an opportunity to make an example of the scum that do this. It should be capitalised on.

Breeding for purpose hunting is ridiculous too, I understand breeding for slaughter, but at least those animals are (in general) given clean humane deaths. Breeding an animal to let it loose into the wild for some low life to take pot shots at, so they can get their jollies is barbaric. Shoot flying ceramic discs like they do in the olympics if you have a hard on for shooting guns at things.

As I mentioned in my other post on this, you're right, this will probably end up largely swept under the rug, but hopefully it stick in quite a few minds too and people will champion the cause whenever they can. This is the second time on this forum alone I have found myself arguing these sentiments (the other was against the "snake charmers" in Marrakech), and this is a football forum. In day to day life I am extremely vocal about these things. More so on animal cruelty in general, but it all comes under the same umbrella.

Sorry but this almost entirely nonsense. Rhino have been hunted to the edge of extinction. As have many Elephants etc. Yet a dentist killing a Lion is made into something shocking. You don't have to throw money around at charities to protest. You just have to first be educated into what has gone on and is still going on. Yet we prefer to bully a man who has paid guides to help him hunt. It is almost as if by attacking this rich guy we somehow make ourselves feel better.

We have to start somewhere? This isn't the starting point. But this, as you say, isn't the forum to do it. But I suggest if others are really that upset they should stop posting nonsense about hurting the dentist and educate themselves into what has been happening in the World for quite some time. I still doubt people will do anything but feel big and proud bullying the dentist.

ToodlesMcToot makes many of the points I should and tried to make. I wouldn't know the first thing about hunting. I do know why we should control and conserve.

[alfie]

The year is 2015 and people are still killing animals for sport.... for sport!
This is nothing to do with killing for food
it is nothing to do with middle class namby pamby not understanding country ways

it simply killing another creature just for the sake of the pleasure of being able to do it.... not the thrill of the hunt (what astupid expression that is) or self defence..... just for the shere pleasure of it.

And in the commons there are half wits that want to bring back the legalisation of hunting with dogs, one of the most unnecessary and unpleasant forms of killing for pleasure there is.

Hunting is just that, killing for sport, killing for pleasure. The people that do and condone this activity are reprehensible

Poor old cecil, his only crime was to be a lion in Africa and for that he was shot with a crossbow. Whether the kill was legal or not is not relevant to me, killing for sport is reprehensible.

Killing for pleasure, killing for sport, it is worth repeating becaus that is all it is and I repeat this is 2015, surely we shouldn't be allowing this any more.

Thank you for listening.

I will listen to this all the time, it is absolutely disgraceful

[rogerpbackinMidEastUS]

The geezer's got a bit of a history of this type of thing + a $127,000 out of court settlement to his receptionist who accused him of sexual harassment.
Sleezeball.
This is not an American thing, although I do know people here who sit on their porches shooting at birds, squirrels etc 'just because they can"
I've eaten venison burgers and sausages in Scotland and only spotted the testicles of a small animal in my stew in Tangiers when I was about to put it in my mouth and my mate said "STOP"
Chickens kept in tiny cages, those poor civets kept in tiny spaces so that rich people can drink poo coffee, which I think was sold in Harrods for a while.
The worst has to be the 'monkey brains thing" in the far east.
Unfortunately it's a cruel planet whereby virtually every animal has a predator and is killed in some grotesque ways, watching animal documentaries shows how awful that is.
Although killing for food is OK as long as it's done extremely humanely.

However, we as the predominant species should know better except of course money talks for everything
+ there are a lot of a**eh*les on this planet.
Put the two together and sadly you get this sort of thing.

[Mokes]

Why the indignation and childish attacks on this bloke? Big game has been hunted for decades to the point where animals are becoming close to extinction. Where were all the brave name calling people then? The fact that we are so upset means I hope we will all join organisations to stop poaching and the transport of animal parts across borders.

This dentist is the tip of a very big pile of animal corpses. We must stop being brave and having a go at him and do something to stop ALL hunting. However we must also  understand that animals will need to be culled and controlled in some areas. Some animals will cease to exist as they are sometimes bred for the purpose of hunting. Wonder how many will forget about it once it is out of the news and their shock and disgust will move onto some other easy target?

Not everyone has the cash to throw around and donate to countless charities. Back when I used to actually care about having a real job and living the suburban dream, I used to donate a fair amount of my money to charities that aided the fight against Dolphin culling. The life I lead now does not allow me any spare cash in my budget to donate to charities other than the ones my work automatically takes out of my wages. People protesting and mocking this guy is just. There is no indignation towards this guy and he deserves every bit of abuse he gets. Yes there is some childish crap being said on twitter, but that is the nature of the beast that is social media. Accountability is a massive step in stopping this. People care less about breaking laws then they do about being named and shamed.

The argument that big game hunting has been around for decades is as ridiculous as a Nick Bateman post. There is a lot of out dated sh!t that was once the norm but is now completely unacceptable.

Yes, the dentist is the tip of the Iceberg, yet it has to start somewhere. To not condemn this fool and do nothing would be a huge blow to the efforts of stopping this ridiculous blood sport. It might be bad luck for they guy to be hated around the world and be the face of a movement, but only he is responsible for his actions. I doubt anyone put a gun to his head and told him to "fly to Zimbabwe, lure a lion out of a protected sanctuary, mortally wound it with a crossbow, wait for it to bleed out then skin it." Whether he willed it or not, he has presented an opportunity to make an example of the scum that do this. It should be capitalised on.

Breeding for purpose hunting is ridiculous too, I understand breeding for slaughter, but at least those animals are (in general) given clean humane deaths. Breeding an animal to let it loose into the wild for some low life to take pot shots at, so they can get their jollies is barbaric. Shoot flying ceramic discs like they do in the olympics if you have a hard on for shooting guns at things.

As I mentioned in my other post on this, you're right, this will probably end up largely swept under the rug, but hopefully it stick in quite a few minds too and people will champion the cause whenever they can. This is the second time on this forum alone I have found myself arguing these sentiments (the other was against the "snake charmers" in Marrakech), and this is a football forum. In day to day life I am extremely vocal about these things. More so on animal cruelty in general, but it all comes under the same umbrella.

Sorry but this almost entirely nonsense. Rhino have been hunted to the edge of extinction. As have many Elephants etc. Yet a dentist killing a Lion is made into something shocking. You don't have to throw money around at charities to protest. You just have to first be educated into what has gone on and is still going on. Yet we prefer to bully a man who has paid guides to help him hunt. It is almost as if by attacking this rich guy we somehow make ourselves feel better.

We have to start somewhere? This isn't the starting point. But this, as you say, isn't the forum to do it. But I suggest if others are really that upset they should stop posting nonsense about hurting the dentist and educate themselves into what has been happening in the World for quite some time. I still doubt people will do anything but feel big and proud bullying the dentist.

ToodlesMcToot makes many of the points I should and tried to make. I wouldn't know the first thing about hunting. I do know why we should control and conserve.

It wouldn't matter what the guy shot, the fact that the animal was in the confines of a protected sanctuary and lead out so that it could be killed for sport is the issue. If it was a lion, an Elephant, a rhino or a unicorn it wouldn't make a difference.

The fact that Rhinos and African Elephants have been lead to the brink of extinction is exactly the reason why dentists (or any one else) should be lambasted for needlessly seeking out and murdering animals.

Obviously it isn't the starting point, there have been lots of other points along the way. The fact that the animal was in a reserve to begin with was one of those points, however, to quote Nick Cave, People just ain't no good. There are selfish people, without morals, who will pay to do harm to an animal for their own jollies. These people should be made to feel ashamed, or better yet, punished. Not just this particular time, but every time. The dentist is copping the heat because he pulled the trigger, but the rest of the people involved should be equally shamed and punished.

It's extremely hard to feel bad for the bullied dentist, when if he had of just followed the old "live and let live" principles, no one would have any idea who he was and would of carried on living his luxurious life in the burbs.

If "attacking this rich guy" stops other rich guys from following suit then that's a good thing.

The laws do need to be tightened, but even if they are you can't stop people from breaking them (Ie tying a dead animal to the back of a truck and baiting a lion out of a protected reserve). Making it known that this is the kind of treatment you can expect if you're caught, can hopefully be seen a preventative measure.  

[Mokes]

First, I'll say that I hunt and I fish. I do it because I enjoy it and because I like to eat what I kill. I grow and kill vines of poor tomatoes, wretched green beans, and death deserving corn as well.  :028:

I don't condone trophy hunting/killing. I don't like idea of it.

I've read thru this thread and much of what I've read so far is akin to the kind of social media bullying/berating feeding frenzies that occur on Twitter and Facebook, et al. The attackers rarely consider little else beyond their own perspective and therefore attack pretty much blindly.

I can tell none of you painting people who are hunters with your broad strokes of "reprehensibility" have ever seen entire populations of whitetail deer who are malnourished, even deformed, because of over population and lack of food. I have. I can tell that none of these same people consider that here in The United States, at least, hunters are some of the best conservators and managers of animal populations and habitats in their home areas. I, my family and friends who hunt are.

Homo sapiens have hunted for meat since there were homo sapiens. It's in our nature to do so. It's just that big business has removed the business end of providing meat for most of us so that the production could be profited upon. I've seen quite a lot of the big business of meat production. The life of the birds grown to produce much of the chicken eaten in the world today is a far less humane thing than the life of Cecil the lion. I haven't seen one of you attack that.

I don't recall any one of you voicing support for hunters/hunting. So, I'll ask all of you who've commented in this thread so far, how many are vegan?

No one has gone into detail about caged birds or chicken eggs as that is a whole different topic all together,and seeing as though this is a football forum a little of topic. That sh!t is truly barbaric, surely no one on here still eats caged meat or eggs?

I'm not a vegan or vegetarian, and if it came to it would kill an animal if it meant survival. I understand the food chain, and know that we're on top of it. However so much meat is so readily available to us that hunting is not necessary. Back in the day when hunting mean't surviving, now days hunting means a set of antlers in your pool room.

Why you're comparing herds of malnourished whitetail deer to an animal that was lured from an animal sanctuary to be illegally killed, I'm not sure.

Killing for survival. No problem
Culling for survival of a habitat- no problem (depending on circumstance and if done humanely)
Killing for trophies- Problem.

[bobbo]

Oh nose great post. I'm right with you on all points mate.

I'm gonna tell you a little story here , I used to work at lhr and a girl who worked with me was not only a veggie but a massive animal lover and when ever she saw animal traps in transit ie baggage she would pull the destination tag off or change it so the owner never got it. I never did it but I so agreed with what she did.

[YankeeJim]

It is a sickening event and typical of an American who throws his money around to feed a depraved lifestyle which is encouraged by U.S. "culture", if they actually have any culture.  The only Yank who doesn't throw his money around is Khan.

This is the type of  :hook: that I dislike. Arrogance personified.

[ToodlesMcToot]

First, I'll say that I hunt and I fish. I do it because I enjoy it and because I like to eat what I kill. I grow and kill vines of poor tomatoes, wretched green beans, and death deserving corn as well.  :028:

I don't condone trophy hunting/killing. I don't like idea of it.

I've read thru this thread and much of what I've read so far is akin to the kind of social media bullying/berating feeding frenzies that occur on Twitter and Facebook, et al. The attackers rarely consider little else beyond their own perspective and therefore attack pretty much blindly.

I can tell none of you painting people who are hunters with your broad strokes of "reprehensibility" have ever seen entire populations of whitetail deer who are malnourished, even deformed, because of over population and lack of food. I have. I can tell that none of these same people consider that here in The United States, at least, hunters are some of the best conservators and managers of animal populations and habitats in their home areas. I, my family and friends who hunt are.

Homo sapiens have hunted for meat since there were homo sapiens. It's in our nature to do so. It's just that big business has removed the business end of providing meat for most of us so that the production could be profited upon. I've seen quite a lot of the big business of meat production. The life of the birds grown to produce much of the chicken eaten in the world today is a far less humane thing than the life of Cecil the lion. I haven't seen one of you attack that.

I don't recall any one of you voicing support for hunters/hunting. So, I'll ask all of you who've commented in this thread so far, how many are vegan?

No one has gone into detail about caged birds or chicken eggs as that is a whole different topic all together,and seeing as though this is a football forum a little of topic. That sh!t is truly barbaric, surely no one on here still eats caged meat or eggs?

I'm not a vegan or vegetarian, and if it came to it would kill an animal if it meant survival. I understand the food chain, and know that we're on top of it. However so much meat is so readily available to us that hunting is not necessary. Back in the day when hunting mean't surviving, now days hunting means a set of antlers in your pool room.

Why you're comparing herds of malnourished whitetail deer to an animal that was lured from an animal sanctuary to be illegally killed, I'm not sure.

Killing for survival. No problem
Culling for survival of a habitat- no problem (depending on circumstance and if done humanely)
Killing for trophies- Problem.

As far as the industrial production of meat for consumption, the comparison was about perspective. I often find that people who will rail against hunting, for whichever purpose, don't know where the meat that they buy from the supermarket/grocery comes from and that they, in fact, contribute to far greater crimes against animals that they take for granted while defending the lives of deer, lions, elephants, whatever. Nothing more. It is a barbaric how many animals raised for the production of food are treated for their entire lives. Cedric at least understood freedom and his place in his world.

This entire discussion is off topic but, it seems civil enough so long as one ignores Nick's attempts at baiting my countrymen into a fight. Shame on you Nick.

I am also not comparing hunting deer to hunting a lion. As I have said previously, this thread ceased being solely about one lion and it's killer midway thru the original post. It then quickly became about hunting in general, painting all hunters with broad stokes, and even went so far as bashing all Americans (thanks again Nick). I used the deer example as I have seen with my own eyes what good hunting and management practices can do for a population of animals. Where I live and have hunted there are very few natural predators for whitetail deer. So they can easily overpopulate a habitat which leads to starvation, disease, smaller gene pools, etc. Hunting and proper land management has done wonders for the health of the deer population.

And, no, hunting doesn't just mean a set of antlers in your pool room. Broad strokes. It can and does mean food for people. It does mean health and plenty of food for indigenous animal populations. It does lead to proper conservation. Possibly you've not lived in an area like mine where this can be seen and understood. I don't know much at all about you. I do know that your characterization of hunting the way that I know it shows a limited understanding. That's not meant to be an insult, I hope that you know. It's just that you and I understand different realities.

Could I, my family, friends, and hunters in general survive without killing Bambi? Of course. We don't HAVE to hunt. Would the deer populations eventually explode causing many more deer than die at the hands of hunters to suffer far more horrible deaths? Absolutely.

[nose]

just one thing
I detest all animal cruelty
farming, zoos (although they are now needed for conservation)
circuses, caged birds etc etc

i absolutely hate the way fish is caught and treated and tanks in restaurants and so on and so forth

but my thread was about stopping hunting... two wrongs and all that


i thank you for all your comments
glad noibody broke ranks... fulham remains a decent place and hope this guy gets the hounding he deserves for what he did... the first of many I hope!

[filham]

So pleased there is almost full agreement on this one.
Just can't understand how people can enjoy killing animals and in particular how so called intelligent people can obtain pleasure  by watching a pack of hungry trained dogs pull an animal apart.

[Mokes]

First, I'll say that I hunt and I fish. I do it because I enjoy it and because I like to eat what I kill. I grow and kill vines of poor tomatoes, wretched green beans, and death deserving corn as well.  :028:

I don't condone trophy hunting/killing. I don't like idea of it.

I've read thru this thread and much of what I've read so far is akin to the kind of social media bullying/berating feeding frenzies that occur on Twitter and Facebook, et al. The attackers rarely consider little else beyond their own perspective and therefore attack pretty much blindly.

I can tell none of you painting people who are hunters with your broad strokes of "reprehensibility" have ever seen entire populations of whitetail deer who are malnourished, even deformed, because of over population and lack of food. I have. I can tell that none of these same people consider that here in The United States, at least, hunters are some of the best conservators and managers of animal populations and habitats in their home areas. I, my family and friends who hunt are.

Homo sapiens have hunted for meat since there were homo sapiens. It's in our nature to do so. It's just that big business has removed the business end of providing meat for most of us so that the production could be profited upon. I've seen quite a lot of the big business of meat production. The life of the birds grown to produce much of the chicken eaten in the world today is a far less humane thing than the life of Cecil the lion. I haven't seen one of you attack that.

I don't recall any one of you voicing support for hunters/hunting. So, I'll ask all of you who've commented in this thread so far, how many are vegan?

No one has gone into detail about caged birds or chicken eggs as that is a whole different topic all together,and seeing as though this is a football forum a little of topic. That sh!t is truly barbaric, surely no one on here still eats caged meat or eggs?

I'm not a vegan or vegetarian, and if it came to it would kill an animal if it meant survival. I understand the food chain, and know that we're on top of it. However so much meat is so readily available to us that hunting is not necessary. Back in the day when hunting mean't surviving, now days hunting means a set of antlers in your pool room.

Why you're comparing herds of malnourished whitetail deer to an animal that was lured from an animal sanctuary to be illegally killed, I'm not sure.

Killing for survival. No problem
Culling for survival of a habitat- no problem (depending on circumstance and if done humanely)
Killing for trophies- Problem.

As far as the industrial production of meat for consumption, the comparison was about perspective. I often find that people who will rail against hunting, for whichever purpose, don't know where the meat that they buy from the supermarket/grocery comes from and that they, in fact, contribute to far greater crimes against animals that they take for granted while defending the lives of deer, lions, elephants, whatever. Nothing more. It is a barbaric how many animals raised for the production of food are treated for their entire lives. Cedric at least understood freedom and his place in his world.

This entire discussion is off topic but, it seems civil enough so long as one ignores Nick's attempts at baiting my countrymen into a fight. Shame on you Nick.

I am also not comparing hunting deer to hunting a lion. As I have said previously, this thread ceased being solely about one lion and it's killer midway thru the original post. It then quickly became about hunting in general, painting all hunters with broad stokes, and even went so far as bashing all Americans (thanks again Nick). I used the deer example as I have seen with my own eyes what good hunting and management practices can do for a population of animals. Where I live and have hunted there are very few natural predators for whitetail deer. So they can easily overpopulate a habitat which leads to starvation, disease, smaller gene pools, etc. Hunting and proper land management has done wonders for the health of the deer population.

And, no, hunting doesn't just mean a set of antlers in your pool room. Broad strokes. It can and does mean food for people. It does mean health and plenty of food for indigenous animal populations. It does lead to proper conservation. Possibly you've not lived in an area like mine where this can be seen and understood. I don't know much at all about you. I do know that your characterization of hunting the way that I know it shows a limited understanding. That's not meant to be an insult, I hope that you know. It's just that you and I understand different realities.

Could I, my family, friends, and hunters in general survive without killing Bambi? Of course. We don't HAVE to hunt. Would the deer populations eventually explode causing many more deer than die at the hands of hunters to suffer far more horrible deaths? Absolutely.

We seem to be on the same page for most of it so I will skip to the end bits, I honestly appreciate your comments.

Hunting in the sense of big game hunting (I made a bad example with Antlers, I should have said Tusks) is a complete farce, and a total cock extension. You don't eat lions, you don't eat elephants, you don't eat Leopards, Rhinos, Hippos or any other animals you might travel to Africa to murder. There is no argument anyone could make to say there is any kind of valour in it. Even if they make the kill with a Bow or a Spear or a bloody boomerang.

Hunting permits on the basis of population control, I understand quite well. We have it back home to deal with the ever growing Kangaroo population. It sounds barbaric as they're so synonymous with Australia and what not but it does need to happen as they are becoming pests. The Whitetail deer where you're from is likely a similar thing, if they're culled properly and humanely, fair deuce.

It's when people get all macho about it and take their kids, and let little Johnny side part have a crack at his first pelt. Shooting the poor thing but not kill it clean, injuring it and having it run off and bleed out and die in agony somewhere. Or, take down the animal then sit there posing for photos with the dead body like they have achieved some proud feat, that gives people the wrong impression when it comes to hunting. You have to be a complete sicko to pose smiling next to an animal carcass and feel any kind of pride that you managed to take its life.

Bow hunting is even worse. Apparently the archer gets a greater sense of accomplishment or whatever they get, but on average only 50% of the animals hit actually die when they're shot. The rest escape then die later. If people are serious about only killing for population control or to put food on their plate, then why does bow hunting even exist, if not for the sport of it.

I have nothing against it if it's done properly and for the right reasons. I guarantee you though there is a lot of "hunters" who like to tell themselves they're just, but really just love the feeling of knowing they have the power of life and death in their trigger finger.

[Rupert]

First, I'll say that I hunt and I fish. I do it because I enjoy it and because I like to eat what I kill. I grow and kill vines of poor tomatoes, wretched green beans, and death deserving corn as well.  :028:

I don't condone trophy hunting/killing. I don't like idea of it.

I've read thru this thread and much of what I've read so far is akin to the kind of social media bullying/berating feeding frenzies that occur on Twitter and Facebook, et al. The attackers rarely consider little else beyond their own perspective and therefore attack pretty much blindly.

I can tell none of you painting people who are hunters with your broad strokes of "reprehensibility" have ever seen entire populations of whitetail deer who are malnourished, even deformed, because of over population and lack of food. I have. I can tell that none of these same people consider that here in The United States, at least, hunters are some of the best conservators and managers of animal populations and habitats in their home areas. I, my family and friends who hunt are.

Homo sapiens have hunted for meat since there were homo sapiens. It's in our nature to do so. It's just that big business has removed the business end of providing meat for most of us so that the production could be profited upon. I've seen quite a lot of the big business of meat production. The life of the birds grown to produce much of the chicken eaten in the world today is a far less humane thing than the life of Cecil the lion. I haven't seen one of you attack that.

I don't recall any one of you voicing support for hunters/hunting. So, I'll ask all of you who've commented in this thread so far, how many are vegan?

I'm happy to answer your point.
I am not vegan, though did live with a vegan family for eighteen months, and I did break out and eat real food from time to time. If society collapsed and I had to fend for myself, I do wonder if meat would feature much in my diet, I don't like killing things, never have done. But, if it is done on my behalf by society, yes, I will eat meat. I realise this makes me a hypocrite, but that is a benefit of civilisation.
Hunting, even for fun, but then eating what has been hunted, I can understand.
Hunting for the sake of killing something, no , that I can not.

[ToodlesMcToot]

First, I'll say that I hunt and I fish. I do it because I enjoy it and because I like to eat what I kill. I grow and kill vines of poor tomatoes, wretched green beans, and death deserving corn as well.  :028:

I don't condone trophy hunting/killing. I don't like idea of it.

I've read thru this thread and much of what I've read so far is akin to the kind of social media bullying/berating feeding frenzies that occur on Twitter and Facebook, et al. The attackers rarely consider little else beyond their own perspective and therefore attack pretty much blindly.

I can tell none of you painting people who are hunters with your broad strokes of "reprehensibility" have ever seen entire populations of whitetail deer who are malnourished, even deformed, because of over population and lack of food. I have. I can tell that none of these same people consider that here in The United States, at least, hunters are some of the best conservators and managers of animal populations and habitats in their home areas. I, my family and friends who hunt are.

Homo sapiens have hunted for meat since there were homo sapiens. It's in our nature to do so. It's just that big business has removed the business end of providing meat for most of us so that the production could be profited upon. I've seen quite a lot of the big business of meat production. The life of the birds grown to produce much of the chicken eaten in the world today is a far less humane thing than the life of Cecil the lion. I haven't seen one of you attack that.

I don't recall any one of you voicing support for hunters/hunting. So, I'll ask all of you who've commented in this thread so far, how many are vegan?

I'm happy to answer your point.
I am not vegan, though did live with a vegan family for eighteen months, and I did break out and eat real food from time to time. If society collapsed and I had to fend for myself, I do wonder if meat would feature much in my diet, I don't like killing things, never have done. But, if it is done on my behalf by society, yes, I will eat meat. I realise this makes me a hypocrite, but that is a benefit of civilisation.
Hunting, even for fun, but then eating what has been hunted, I can understand.
Hunting for the sake of killing something, no , that I can not.

I can appreciate your and everyone's aversion to hunting. It's not right for everyone.  I don't advocate hunting solely for killing or trophy taking.

The only bit that I've disagreed with is the "all hunters are....." business.

[bmasar]

I want to speak to the claim that Palmer is being singled out unfairly for a practice that has been going on for a long time.

The simple truth is that the paradigm has shifted and we are no longer living in the same world we inhabited even five years ago. Information now spreads like a wildfire across online social circles. The public shaming of Palmer isn't an anomaly that will be soon forgotten; it is a harbinger of things to come. The genie will not be let back in the bottle (unless one of those wicked radiation sun storms actually does occur and sends us all back to the Stone Age). Public awareness of the issue has reached a tipping point overnight. This will happen more and more.

A story from earlier tonight: here in America, the baseball trading window closes in 36 hours. A few hours ago, news of a major trade became public knowledge. In fact, one player was shown crying on the field because he was about to leave the only organization he ever knew and everyone in attendance was aware of the fact. But sure enough, the trade was canceled less than an hour later because one team didn't like the medical report it received. Everyone in baseball is talking about this unprecedented event: a trade was agreed upon, players involved were named and informed, and because of social media, the public knew. Surely this wasn't the first time a trade was scuttled at the last moment, but it was the first time it played out in the public domain. The analysts are asking each other, "Have you ever seen anything like this??" No, but they will again. And again.

[nose]

I want to speak to the claim that Palmer is being singled out unfairly for a practice that has been going on for a long time.
it is irrelevant how long a practice has beeing going on
cild abuse went on for years as did slavery, as di wife beating etc etc and they were all wrong, the length of time they went on for is totally irelevant, the reason they happened was because of physical strength.... time did not make time any more correct.

The simple truth is that the paradigm has shifted and we are no longer living in the same world we inhabited even five years ago. Information now spreads like a wildfire across online social circles. The public shaming of Palmer isn't an anomaly that will be soon forgotten; it is a harbinger of things to come. The genie will not be let back in the bottle (unless one of those wicked radiation sun storms actually does occur and sends us all back to the Stone Age). Public awareness of the issue has reached a tipping point overnight. This will happen more and more.

A story from earlier tonight: here in America, the baseball trading window closes in 36 hours. A few hours ago, news of a major trade became public knowledge. In fact, one player was shown crying on the field because he was about to leave the only organization he ever knew and everyone in attendance was aware of the fact. But sure enough, the trade was canceled less than an hour later because one team didn't like the medical report it received. Everyone in baseball is talking about this unprecedented event: a trade was agreed upon, players involved were named and informed, and because of social media, the public knew. Surely this wasn't the first time a trade was scuttled at the last moment, but it was the first time it played out in the public domain. The analysts are asking each other, "Have you ever seen anything like this??" No, but they will again. And again.

palmer is being singled out extremely fairly
it is scandalous to even begin to want to suggest he isn't
the media if it chose to could close down hunting in a week!
well nearly but there is
a) no perceived money in it although I would suggest promoting anti hunting could be far more lucrative
and
b) too many of the hunting murdering mob are running the show, old school tie, big business men and so on

he is defintiel not being singled out and if the story was dropped in the USA well that is another black mark to your media... bu te way ours is just as bad


i also have now heard it said pro hunting money helps conservation by spending in areas to [protect wildlife that would otherwise have died out.... what a lot of of rubbish that is.... if these people were wildlife lovers they wouldn't kill it they would leave it be.      

the issue is simple, hunters kill for sport, for the love of killing an unarmed unprotected entity with no chance of self defence or no choice. that is why it morally wrong and reprehensible.... this guy was a name we can point our anger at and the lion was a name we could identify with and feel sorry for and ashamed one of our kind killed him. it will hopefully mobilise a bit of world support to get hunting stopped once and for all... i hope the wprlds children notice and bring pressure on their neadedatal parents!

[Nero]

Surely if an American wants to hunt and kill he could just join the police.

[ToodlesMcToot]

Surely if an American wants to hunt and kill he could just join the police.

That's out of line and highly disrespectful to the vast majority of officers who perform their very dangerous job admirably every day.

[Craven Mad]

Surely if an American wants to hunt and kill he could just join the police.

That's out of line and highly disrespectful to the vast majority of officers who perform their very dangerous job admirably every day.

Not saying there aren't decent officers in the US, but there is something in what Nero says.

From an article released mid-June:



EDIT: The pic doesn't seem to be showing up, but it shows that there have been 55 police killings in England & Wales in the past 24 years, compared to 59 police killings in the first 24 days of 2015 in the US.

That's pretty shocking, even with the population variance.

Full Article: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/09/the-counted-police-killings-us-vs-other-countries