apparently the concern is absurd

[Twig]

I think Denver makes an important point, a lot of our problems stem from our midfield trio misfiring. Ironically that has nothing to do with success or failure of our recruitment efforts/ policy.  But it certainly suggests that our pre season was shockingly ill conceived.
We mostly acknowledge that our owners are still learning how to run a football club (and I think we mostly agree they are improving) but whoever planned our pre season must never repeat those errors.

[Marcel_Gecov]

I think Denver makes an important point, a lot of our problems stem from our midfield trio misfiring. Ironically that has nothing to do with success or failure of our recruitment efforts/ policy.  But it certainly suggests that our pre season was shockingly ill conceived.
We mostly acknowledge that our owners are still learning how to run a football club (and I think we mostly agree they are improving) but whoever planned our pre season must never repeat those errors.

Agreed. StefJo, McDonald and Cairney are all injured, not 100%, not match fit (delete as appropriate) I think it's a perfect time to ease Norwood and Cisse into the squad. Cairney certainly shouldn't play again until after the internationals (maybe 45 minutes tomorrow).

[Keynsham]

You may well have valid points but the problem is that you have been putting those same points across in just about every post you have made for something like four years now.  And to be honest, they started to lose a little traction after the first month..

[toshes mate]

Third time of asking.... Who says we need a 'big' striker?

A big forward could mean physically big, wide or tall, or just a name we all associate with the big bag full of goals he always delivers no matter where he plays.  It's an ambiguous word and I am guessing of course but I think nose means the big bag full of goals which starts with a hat trick on debut and doesn't tail off after two or three games.  They don't happen to come along very often and history says not many of them stay very long at Cinderella clubs.   And so MJG how about dealing with nose's real plank of contention which is about whether or not the Fulham engine is running smoothly or in something largely resembling reverse gear, at speed rather than having fun with English language which can, in some cases, end up with a yellow card?   

[toshes mate]

Not sure how some people can say the ten men against Reading would have ended up as a defeat last term when we murdered Norwich after Martin was dismissed.  Sure we lost at Birmingham but that was just a nightmare match.   

I always look for signs of optimism but I am having difficulty finding any.  I am interested in the 'playing injured players' threads since we have been discussing squad depth and alternative formations for a very long time, and so we shouldn't be playing anyone who is unfit.  Likewise we shouldn't be playing anyone who doesn't want to play for us, unless of course their initials are CM.

I think we are in trouble but I cannot put my finger on why that is and what has happened to make it thus.  I was hoping the owner's son or his communicator might shed some light on the problems as befits a well run organisation but obviously PR is not a strong point with Ms Brookes having gone.  All in all it ain't healthy and we don't seem to have a doctor in the house.

[MJG]

Third time of asking.... Who says we need a 'big' striker?

A big forward could mean physically big, wide or tall, or just a name we all associate with the big bag full of goals he always delivers no matter where he plays.  It's an ambiguous word and I am guessing of course but I think nose means the big bag full of goals which starts with a hat trick on debut and doesn't tail off after two or three games.  They don't happen to come along very often and history says not many of them stay very long at Cinderella clubs.   And so MJG how about dealing with nose's real plank of contention which is about whether or not the Fulham engine is running smoothly or in something largely resembling reverse gear, at speed rather than having fun with English language which can, in some cases, end up with a yellow card?

Nose meant in his three posts saying that the club are failing in getting a 'big' striker we all know, as one who is like Smith, crouch etc and he knows that. Hence this question again was asked by myself trying to find who at the club had said this is what we needed. Of course no one at club has said this.

Im not against a player like that, I personally dont think we need one but I have said why elsewhere.

As for his other points, a very bad 45 minutes does not mean we are going backwards. Far from it we are building the bigger squad many want and will have more competition for places (which is another subject..is that a good or bad thing?).
In he big scheme of things we have three draws and a loss. Those results as we play more will just blend into the total number of games played. Its does not matter really if they happen at this time or spread over the season. At the end as long as we have enough for 6th or above im ok with that. Ive had us as 4th-6th this year and dont see anything to change that.

[colinwhite]

I can certainly have a go at answering that if you  have no objections MjG.
Firstly we finished last season with an exceptionell run of form with a very settled starting line-up. The idea that we can just carry on where we left off and add a few players to become even better shows a bit of a lack of understanding for how team building works. Add to that how circumstances;injurys, sending -offs,new players  etc have contrived against us and its not too difficult to understand that we are having abit of a blip in terms of results.
The performances have generally impressed me and with a bit of luck we could/should have beaten both Norwich and Leeds.
The pressure is on against Ipswich and Cardiff and we need to rise to the challenge.I think we can win the next two games I dont know about you.

[toshes mate]

a) Mmm, to have a 'blip' is only possible to call after the 'blip' has ended.  The season before last our 'blip' lasted forty six games.
b) The match against Reading I have acknowledged was a good performance all things considered because we were chasing the game for so long before getting the equaliser with ten men.  Against Norwich we didn't win because we apparently cannot score more than one goal, a disease that first appeared in the match against Brentford last term and has persisted - a 'blip' that is now seven games long.
c) What has changed this season in terms of team work is a lousy pre-season, and not much conviction, confidence, and freedom from the players on the pitch over ninety minutes in the competitive games so far.  Should that not be a concern after the truly lack lustre stuff on display against Wednesday?

[colinwhite]

I feel the same concerns as everyone else. I dont think we were lacklustre against sheffield wednesday. They are a top side and would have less points than us if we had got the draw. As for pre-season etc ,neither of us know what that has been like, so lets not jump to too many conclusions. I believe that joka will get it right ,are  you saying that you dont?

[MJG]

a) Mmm, to have a 'blip' is only possible to call after the 'blip' has ended.  The season before last our 'blip' lasted forty six games.
b) The match against Reading I have acknowledged was a good performance all things considered because we were chasing the game for so long before getting the equaliser with ten men.  Against Norwich we didn't win because we apparently cannot score more than one goal, a disease that first appeared in the match against Brentford last term and has persisted - a 'blip' that is now seven games long.
c) What has changed this season in terms of team work is a lousy pre-season, and not much conviction, confidence, and freedom from the players on the pitch over ninety minutes in the competitive games so far.  Should that not be a concern after the truly lack lustre stuff on display against Wednesday?

That blip of scoring only one goal at Brentford ended next game at Wednesday.

[toshes mate]

Nose meant in his three posts ....

Thanks for giving my semantics more words than they deserved, MJG,   I am seriously concerned that we are in reverse and travelling at speed because when things unravel at Fulham, boy do they unravel.  I could tell you what I see in my crystal ball, a little hazy around the edges but forming into sharper relief far too quickly for my comfort but I am that disbelieving of it I really don't want to put it in the public domain.  Fulham is not healthy, MJG, and it needs a spiritual uplift of the kind that doesn't come in bottles.   I really do hope it is a blip but I fear it is not.

[toshes mate]

a) Mmm, to have a 'blip' is only possible to call after the 'blip' has ended.  The season before last our 'blip' lasted forty six games.
b) The match against Reading I have acknowledged was a good performance all things considered because we were chasing the game for so long before getting the equaliser with ten men.  Against Norwich we didn't win because we apparently cannot score more than one goal, a disease that first appeared in the match against Brentford last term and has persisted - a 'blip' that is now seven games long.
c) What has changed this season in terms of team work is a lousy pre-season, and not much conviction, confidence, and freedom from the players on the pitch over ninety minutes in the competitive games so far.  Should that not be a concern after the truly lack lustre stuff on display against Wednesday?

That blip of scoring only one goal at Brentford ended next game at Wednesday.

Oh, you are so right MJG.  It was against their second string and a bit meaningless, but yes, I will shut up now.

[Lighthouse]

 After four games I think it is absurd to continue on about those in management being at fault. But never the fault of the coach or the players who haven't hit form. Three games were ok. Even though I am told the teams we played will be poor this season. It happens and we need only a few players to complete the squad. Shame it couldn't be done earlier. However, as last season proved with the centre backs. Time will tell if the players brought in are the right players.

But yes it is absurd after four games to blame the same people. When the real questions lie on the pitch with the coach and the players. That doesn't mean I feel critical of them either. One very poor 45 minutes out of four or five matches does not a season make.

[Woolly Mammoth]

After only 4️⃣ matches we are already 9️⃣ points behind the top 2️⃣, I say that's cause for concern, and ironically 1️⃣ point above the relegation zone.
Nothing to lose too much sleep over yet.
Nevertheless, even if the top 2️⃣ lose their next 3️⃣ matches, and we win our next 3️⃣, we will only be level but still behind because other teams will gain points.
Winning early is as important as winning late or in mid season. 
So far we haven't won, and haven't scored more than 1️⃣ goal in a game.
Let's remember there are plenty of other teams looking to be promoted and will not wait for Fulham to get their act together.
How come Cardiff City who have brought in new players, and they did it early. Can win their first 4️⃣ matches, it appears their new players can gel and settle quickly, so what's the secret, that dispels the boring rubbish about players needing to settle in etc, they are not aged 2️⃣ and a half  years old. They are allegedly supposed to be professional, what has Neil Warnock got that Jok hasn't.
Excuses and saying be patient and let's hope for the best, and in so and so we trust will not win matches.
I will inform you of what wins matches.
Goals win matches, rolling your sleeves up, sweating blood, fire in your belly, and running through a brick wall and coming out fighting on the other side wins matches, and commitment and work rate and attitude and application as well as fitness, and the will to win, with a heart the size of a football, not forgetting good technique and a good first touch, and being mentally strong in adversity with the confidence in your own ability, as well as a little bit of skill. 
That's what contributes to winning matches.

[ScalleysDad]

Is this not really about self managing the optimism? We finished last season with a flurry but failed the final test and we all had opinions as to why that was. Most of the angst seemed to revolve around the need to fill key positions, like a traditional No.9, with better than what we had. If we still had preseason optimism after the farcical friendlies the number of players coming in that had to be googled and You Tubed, ( is that now a verb?), would have been a further test of the optimistic resolve. We have already played some of the teams in the running last season and have not come out on top although reports have suggested we have battled hard and run the proverbial socks off. All the reports suggest we failed to take our opportunities which could be a cut and paste job from so many reports last season so could we, should we rightfully question the progress made or otherwise? On Saturday we lost to another contender from last season. They came across as having a game plan whilst we wasted opportunities, (cut and paste that), we lacked ideas/courage/resolve and they took the points. Button in the MoM frame again has to be concerning? We have a revitalised 'wanna be' contender coming up who will almost certainly not let us settle and may well bully our key strengths into being an ineffective side show. This particular match of course will be as we start another reshuffle to accommodate the new No.9, (who we have taking the corners), and who we could have had, apparently, in the starting line up four games ago. We have this seasons new contenders, who are set up and take each game as a fine tuning exercise, still to play and if we have ideas on promotion or a top six spot I feel we needed to have the fourteen set in stone and playing to a game plan by now. Fulham do have a habit of taking optimism to the very limits.

[aaronmcguigan]

Couple of people have alluded to it but the preseason has really messed us about.
Injuries will happen through poor preparation, recovery or over exertion. The fact we went on 2 tours to play meaningless games with such small squads having too much playing time in preseason are simple own goals. The behind close doors friendlies don't have the same intensity as regular games against Lower league (which is what 90% of clubs do) and again is poor preparation.
The internationals messed about with us but that will happen most years. Cairney didn't have enough time off, Sess played 70/80 minutes against West Ham(?) a few days after winning the euro championship... and separating the squad into different tours for the u23s/u18s when we can barely fill a starting lineup for the seniors doesn't make sense

All the above means playing catch up, especially if you don't have your new signings on board in time for the tours. We are playing catch up and whoever designed this pre season schedule needs to be held to account . We could have spent pre season working on new tactics too and different ways of working but from the moment we stepped out in pre season with Betts frozen out, and Button offered out too, you knew it wasn't going to go well.

A simple pre season for a lower level team should only have one trip abroad, and at that I'd recommend later in pre season when players have developed fitness and allowed enough time for a few targeted signings to get on board. Start off against lower level London opposition; play Wimbledon or Kingstonian or whatever, in our new kit which is released early, it's a glamour tie for them so they'll provide decent opposition whilst us still having an easy life, the youths getting a shot, that means everyone, not ignoring the likes of Williams/ Humphrys etc even Sean Kavanagh if it means we only give 50/60 minutes max to the players we will count on come August

Come the middle of July, we get in one or two of the main targets, a Fonte type who we bid a sensible amount for without wasting time on 3 bids. He comes on board, we go to Austria for fitness camp and challenging games in decent stadiums in front of a decent crowd. as we are a forward thinking fan friendly club, we announce these fixtures 3/4 months in advance and offer fans the chance to come to Austria to follow the team.
Back to England and one or two transfers are being delayed but we get them on board for the annual glamour friendly, we put out a strong side to test ourselves but use the whole squad. Again, this tie is heavily promoted and advertised to get a real buzz with our new sponsors laying on entertainment to get us on board with the new brand.
Throughout pre season there are manager updates, insights into coaching and behind the scenes footage for those subscribed to fulhamfctv which has presenters, and guest players being interviewed one a week, maybe even involving the fans to help run it.


Just a thought on a simple , no nonsense pre season with everyone happy. Don't want to have a go at the club but there's so many things we can learn for next season, that or im actively looking employment as an events organiser or operations manager , thanks 😂😂

[colinwhite]

After four games I think it is absurd to continue on about those in management being at fault. But never the fault of the coach or the players who haven't hit form. Three games were ok. Even though I am told the teams we played will be poor this season. It happens and we need only a few players to complete the squad. Shame it couldn't be done earlier. However, as last season proved with the centre backs. Time will tell if the players brought in are the right players.

But yes it is absurd after four games to blame the same people. When the real questions lie on the pitch with the coach and the players. That doesn't mean I feel critical of them either. One very poor 45 minutes out of four or five matches does not a season make.

Agree with you lighthouse . well put!

[Marcel_Gecov]

In he big scheme of things we have three draws and a loss. Those results as we play more will just blend into the total number of games played. Its does not matter really if they happen at this time or spread over the season. At the end as long as we have enough for 6th or above im ok with that. Ive had us as 4th-6th this year and dont see anything to change that.

I've calmed down a bit since Saturday and now think if we win at Ipswich then all things considered, 6pts from this month is probably just about acceptable. But if we lose that game we will likely be 6-7pts from 6th and surely you of all people will agree that size gap takes a good month or two of consistently playing well just to make up. Personally I don't want to Spend all year playing catch up again and relying on another team having a Leeds-type capitulation. If we're in the same position around next February as we were last february, would you even count on us getting the same luck as last time and actually sneaking into the play-offs again? I wouldn't

Totally agree - 4 points from Cardiff/ Ipswich are a must.

[MJG]

In he big scheme of things we have three draws and a loss. Those results as we play more will just blend into the total number of games played. Its does not matter really if they happen at this time or spread over the season. At the end as long as we have enough for 6th or above im ok with that. Ive had us as 4th-6th this year and dont see anything to change that.

I've calmed down a bit since Saturday and now think if we win at Ipswich then all things considered, 6pts from this month is probably just about acceptable. But if we lose that game we will likely be 6-7pts from 6th and surely you of all people will agree that size gap takes a good month or two of consistently playing well just to make up. Personally I don't want to Spend all year playing catch up again and relying on another team having a Leeds-type capitulation. If we're in the same position around next February as we were last february, would you even count on us getting the same luck as last time and actually sneaking into the play-offs again? I wouldn't

I do agree its playing catch up time again. Something I had hoped we would not need to do. But I trust the way things work not to panic until I think its impossible.
Looking back Id said we had to be the best team for quite a while to make playoffs and we did. To do it twice would be very unlikely.

We were 8th and 4 points behind at halfway stage last year, Id want us to be no worse than that at end of the year, otherwise Id say its a very long shot.

[toshes mate]

Is this not really about self managing the optimism? We finished last season with a flurry but failed the final test and we all had opinions as to why that was. Most of the angst seemed to revolve around the need to fill key positions, like a traditional No.9, with better than what we had. If we still had preseason optimism after the farcical friendlies the number of players coming in that had to be googled and You Tubed, ( is that now a verb?), would have been a further test of the optimistic resolve. We have already played some of the teams in the running last season and have not come out on top although reports have suggested we have battled hard and run the proverbial socks off. All the reports suggest we failed to take our opportunities which could be a cut and paste job from so many reports last season so could we, should we rightfully question the progress made or otherwise? On Saturday we lost to another contender from last season. They came across as having a game plan whilst we wasted opportunities, (cut and paste that), we lacked ideas/courage/resolve and they took the points. Button in the MoM frame again has to be concerning? We have a revitalised 'wanna be' contender coming up who will almost certainly not let us settle and may well bully our key strengths into being an ineffective side show. This particular match of course will be as we start another reshuffle to accommodate the new No.9, (who we have taking the corners), and who we could have had, apparently, in the starting line up four games ago. We have this seasons new contenders, who are set up and take each game as a fine tuning exercise, still to play and if we have ideas on promotion or a top six spot I feel we needed to have the fourteen set in stone and playing to a game plan by now. Fulham do have a habit of taking optimism to the very limits.

Really well put.