many of the posts here are suggesting the critical nature of mine and others posts is absurd.
Is that true? are we being absurd?
four games in three points, two goals scored, and one was an OG.
The manager has already had at least two and possibly three interviews where he laments the transfer policy. I am with him.
I was told by the same people from feb to May we were the highest points scorers (or were newc better?), whatever we did brilliantly. but we started with injuries and suspensions and as suggested that has caused us grief. we lost our LB and that is a problem and we need the CB and big forward we can all see we need. maybe a new LB is about to arrive, who knows how good he might be or whether he will fit in or even that Joca likes him!
From being so good, it has taen us four games intot the season not to be demonstatably as good as last season.
we should already be much much better.
is it absud to how concern when the management act so painfully slowly?
Third time of asking.... Who says we need a 'big' striker?
We literally have the same points haul from these first four games from the same fixtures last season. I think we'd gladly take another 6 place finish. I think we'll be right in contention for the top two places, but doom and gloom does no good now. Transfer business still to be done. If after 16 fixtures we're on 12 points then let's panic, but had we started with Barnsley, Millwall, Burton and Birmingham we'd be singing praises and everyone happy. I typically don't take any stock in the table until about November anyway. We'll win some. We'll lose some. Let everyone play mostly everyone and then judge. To write off the season after four games is silly.
With 42 League Fixtures still to come 21 home and 21 away. The maximum points we can accrue is 129.
That is more than enough to gain automatic promotion.
There is hardly any room for error in the champsionship, it's probably one of the hardest leagues in Europe to succeed in.
We've been too slow to react, to buy the players/fill the positions we needed. Fonte is a good example; 2 months, 4 bids to get the man we identified. It's too long!
We're hardly dynamic in the transfer market. Acknowledge we picked up some good players last season but generally think our transfer policy is all wrong. Excluding the manager from that process doesn't help.
In summary, it hasn't been a good start to the season but we're still a good team. If we had the knowledge & were more proactive behind the scenes, it would have been a much better start, but were definitely in danger of wasting all the good work over the last 12 months.
Jeez
When we are in the top 6 nearing the end of the season and winning games in style, will you still be moaning?
Quote from: BestOfBrede on August 20, 2017, 09:38:16 PM
Jeez
When we are in the top 6 nearing the end of the season and winning games in style, will you still be moaning?
no..... will be top two or top 6. because in reality, from where we finished, we should be cjhallenging this term for top 6
Quote from: Fulham76 on August 20, 2017, 09:34:42 PM
There is hardly any room for error in the champsionship, it's probably one of the hardest leagues in Europe to succeed in.
We've been too slow to react, to buy the players/fill the positions we needed. Fonte is a good example; 2 months, 4 bids to get the man we identified. It's too long!
We're hardly dynamic in the transfer market. Acknowledge we picked up some good players last season but generally think our transfer policy is all wrong. Excluding the manager from that process doesn't help.
In summary, it hasn't been a good start to the season but we're still a good team. If we had the knowledge & were more proactive behind the scenes, it would have been a much better start, but were definitely in danger of wasting all the good work over the last 12 months.
I tend to agree with your deduction.
Quote from: MJG on August 20, 2017, 09:26:14 PM
Third time of asking.... Who says we need a 'big' striker?
sorry, I truly didn't see your two previous requests.
Well in the past i have never seen the obsession with a big front man, and I still do not. but a physical prescence is a very importan asset particularly in this division. It seems to me at the back end of last season and certainly the start oof thi, the opposition have rumbled how to disrupt our style and we do not cause the opposition back line enough problems. to have no big man, not even on the bench is an issue. even mat smith will score goals and cause problems as he did yesterday.
IMO and many real people I talk to in the flesh, they mostly think we need a proper center forward. I really like the look of fonte, and am delighted we have him, but he is more of the same, just a higher quality. we need a big man.
i am astonished that so many of you are serial 'black syaers' just because I say 'white'
toime after time i make properly considered points and time after time it is we are no worse off than last season, the transfer window is not yet closed. That is such a ridiculous point of viuew if you actual care to see what I have said is from where we started... we should have moved on, not stagnated! Goodness, do you actually want the club to progress, I certainly do and I look to fellow supporters to say we have not, the manager has yet again complained he is not properly supported by the transfer policy! I agree with him.
We should be better, not like for like with last season, what ois wrong with that.
Everything was in place to kick on, the management saidd they were ambitious however we have more of the same amateur approach. This start is just not good enopugh, the transfers are too late and too unimaginative and that is the truth.
what is absurd is anyboody argues the point!
Quote from: nose on August 20, 2017, 09:17:33 PM
many of the posts here are suggesting the critical nature of mine and others posts is absurd.
Is that true? are we being absurd?
four games in three points, two goals scored, and one was an OG.
The manager has already had at least two and possibly three interviews where he laments the transfer policy. I am with him.
I was told by the same people from feb to May we were the highest points scorers (or were newc better?), whatever we did brilliantly. but we started with injuries and suspensions and as suggested that has caused us grief. we lost our LB and that is a problem and we need the CB and big forward we can all see we need. maybe a new LB is about to arrive, who knows how good he might be or whether he will fit in or even that Joca likes him!
From being so good, it has taen us four games intot the season not to be demonstatably as good as last season.
we should already be much much better.
is it absud to how concern when the management act so painfully slowly?
The quick answer is yes
Quote from: nose on August 20, 2017, 09:45:42 PM
Quote from: MJG on August 20, 2017, 09:26:14 PM
Third time of asking.... Who says we need a 'big' striker?
sorry, I truly didn't see your two previous requests.
Well in the past i have never seen the obsession with a big front man, and I still do not. but a physical prescence is a very importan asset particularly in this division. It seems to me at the back end of last season and certainly the start oof thi, the opposition have rumbled how to disrupt our style and we do not cause the opposition back line enough problems. to have no big man, not even on the bench is an issue. even mat smith will score goals and cause problems as he did yesterday.
IMO and many real people I talk to in the flesh, they mostly think we need a proper center forward. I really like the look of fonte, and am delighted we have him, but he is more of the same, just a higher quality. we need a big man.
but you have constantly been saying the club can't see we need one. Maybe they don't want one have you considered that?
It's yours and others opinion that we need one, so you can't really blame club for not getting one if they don't actually want to get a Smith or crouch type player.
Nose calm down, if you don't you will end up like me and I don't want that sort of competition on this forum!! The thing that clearly comes from your postings is your disappointment, frustration and almost anger, I share all those feelings m8!!
I think once the LB is signed we have to gel our squad for the first 10 games and then push on.
We've also had some injuries. TC for instance not fully fit.
I think we need to calm down and wait til November time to push on. Let's just scramble some points any way we can from what is a difficult first few months ahead given the fixture list.
Quote from: MJG on August 20, 2017, 09:26:14 PM
Third time of asking.... Who says we need a 'big' striker?
Quote from: nose on August 20, 2017, 09:17:33 PM
many of the posts here are suggesting the critical nature of mine and others posts is absurd.
Is that true? are we being absurd?
four games in three points, two goals scored, and one was an OG.
The manager has already had at least two and possibly three interviews where he laments the transfer policy. I am with him.
I was told by the same people from feb to May we were the highest points scorers (or were newc better?), whatever we did brilliantly. but we started with injuries and suspensions and as suggested that has caused us grief. we lost our LB and that is a problem and we need the CB and big forward we can all see we need. maybe a new LB is about to arrive, who knows how good he might be or whether he will fit in or even that Joca likes him!
From being so good, it has taen us four games intot the season not to be demonstatably as good as last season.
we should already be much much better.
is it absud to how concern when the management act so painfully slowly?
I agree with nose and I don't think he's being unfair.
Based on how finished last season we certainly shouldn't have started this way this season. It's not like we lost a lot of players and are having to rebuild and gel again.
Injuries, lack of fitness and suspensions haven't helped but a lot of these have been self inflicted. Pre season has been an abject failure.
We need to get our act together quickly otherwise it's mid table mediocrity this season or worse.
Don't understand these posters who are saying don't worry we will be top six or even auto promoted at the end of the year. We certainly haven't shown that form so far.
Our central midfield trio, which basically drives everything we do, has been injured/unfit/not good so far.
There's your story. If they continue to play like that, we won't be as good as last season, even though the roster is inarguably better now. If they find their proper form, we'll be fine and should at least make the playoffs.
I Think we have improved on last season,at least in one aspect. Playing with 10 men against reading for 90 minutes would definitely have ended up in defeat, and to play Leeds Away without Kalas and Cairney would not have looked too healthy either.
Lets get TC up and running properly and Fonte and Kamara clicking in their own ways and we will be top six.
We are all disappointed by the results but cheer up Nose, we havent become a weaker side overnight we just havent had the continuity all of us would have liked , but the signings we have made have definitely stregnthed the squad and there may still be some more to come.
One thing is for sure the signings made this summer give us amuch bigger chance of changing things around,and flexibillity in how we couldn potentially Line-up,or change tactically during games.
Good post Colin.
None of has a crystal ball, but there's reason to feel fairly positive about the team's prospects.
I can't believe the effect a home defeat has had, though it was by no means a terrible performance, though we didn't have the fluency we've come to expect lately.
Quite a few on here are long term fans of the club, and will have seen us in the bottom divisions, having descended fairly rapidly from the top division - struggling to get results in front of 3-5 thousand fans, huddled against the chill wind from the river.
Generally, as a Fulham fan since the early 60's I am no stranger to paying out good money to see us lose. A good job there wasn't social media in those days, or were fans calmer and less angrily judgemental in the face of, always depressing to witness, defeats?
That's football, and sport in general, for you, though- the outcome isn't pre-ordained, and apart from your team losing, the game might not be very good. But therein lies much of the dramatic tension. Unlike an actual play or film, where you can get a good idea of what's in store - a pleasurable evening's entertainment- you don't know how your team is going to do beforehand, but always hope for the best.
Also, unlike a play/film, the paying punter can actually feel involved in the action, by cheering their team on to, hopefully, victory.
That's a part of the emotional involvement that keeps us addicted. Imagine how boring it would be if we knew Fulham would win every game!
Quote from: Fulhamerica23 on August 20, 2017, 09:28:36 PM
We literally have the same points haul from these first four games from the same fixtures last season. I think we'd gladly take another 6 place finish. I think we'll be right in contention for the top two places, but doom and gloom does no good now. Transfer business still to be done. If after 16 fixtures we're on 12 points then let's panic, but had we started with Barnsley, Millwall, Burton and Birmingham we'd be singing praises and everyone happy. I typically don't take any stock in the table until about November anyway. We'll win some. We'll lose some. Let everyone play mostly everyone and then judge. To write off the season after four games is silly.
This isn't progress. We should be doing better than last season, not just hoping to re-create it.
Let's give it time, yeah? If we beat Ipswich it doesn't mean everything is fine, nor does it mean we are going to struggle. Our squad is by far stronger than last year and on another thread people are discussing who will have to leave now to get the football they need.
Positivity alert! We will end up top 6, we will beat Ipswich and that'll put us mid-table going into international break when we will hopefully come out of the traps and get a few decent wins under our belts. Cairney will be fit after the internationals.
We need a CB (that's if Soares joins) and that would be us done to my mind. A great summer.
I think Denver makes an important point, a lot of our problems stem from our midfield trio misfiring. Ironically that has nothing to do with success or failure of our recruitment efforts/ policy. But it certainly suggests that our pre season was shockingly ill conceived.
We mostly acknowledge that our owners are still learning how to run a football club (and I think we mostly agree they are improving) but whoever planned our pre season must never repeat those errors.
Quote from: Twig on August 21, 2017, 09:44:43 AM
I think Denver makes an important point, a lot of our problems stem from our midfield trio misfiring. Ironically that has nothing to do with success or failure of our recruitment efforts/ policy. But it certainly suggests that our pre season was shockingly ill conceived.
We mostly acknowledge that our owners are still learning how to run a football club (and I think we mostly agree they are improving) but whoever planned our pre season must never repeat those errors.
Agreed. StefJo, McDonald and Cairney are all injured, not 100%, not match fit (delete as appropriate) I think it's a perfect time to ease Norwood and Cisse into the squad. Cairney certainly shouldn't play again until after the internationals (maybe 45 minutes tomorrow).
You may well have valid points but the problem is that you have been putting those same points across in just about every post you have made for something like four years now. And to be honest, they started to lose a little traction after the first month..
Quote from: MJG on August 20, 2017, 09:26:14 PM
Third time of asking.... Who says we need a 'big' striker?
A big forward could mean physically big, wide or tall, or just a name we all associate with the big bag full of goals he always delivers no matter where he plays. It's an ambiguous word and I am guessing of course but I think nose means the big bag full of goals which starts with a hat trick on debut and doesn't tail off after two or three games. They don't happen to come along very often and history says not many of them stay very long at Cinderella clubs. And so MJG how about dealing with nose's real plank of contention which is about whether or not the Fulham engine is running smoothly or in something largely resembling reverse gear, at speed rather than having fun with English language which can, in some cases, end up with a yellow card?
Not sure how some people can say the ten men against Reading would have ended up as a defeat last term when we murdered Norwich after Martin was dismissed. Sure we lost at Birmingham but that was just a nightmare match.
I always look for signs of optimism but I am having difficulty finding any. I am interested in the 'playing injured players' threads since we have been discussing squad depth and alternative formations for a very long time, and so we shouldn't be playing anyone who is unfit. Likewise we shouldn't be playing anyone who doesn't want to play for us, unless of course their initials are CM.
I think we are in trouble but I cannot put my finger on why that is and what has happened to make it thus. I was hoping the owner's son or his communicator might shed some light on the problems as befits a well run organisation but obviously PR is not a strong point with Ms Brookes having gone. All in all it ain't healthy and we don't seem to have a doctor in the house.
Quote from: toshes mate on August 21, 2017, 10:11:16 AM
Quote from: MJG on August 20, 2017, 09:26:14 PM
Third time of asking.... Who says we need a 'big' striker?
A big forward could mean physically big, wide or tall, or just a name we all associate with the big bag full of goals he always delivers no matter where he plays. It's an ambiguous word and I am guessing of course but I think nose means the big bag full of goals which starts with a hat trick on debut and doesn't tail off after two or three games. They don't happen to come along very often and history says not many of them stay very long at Cinderella clubs. And so MJG how about dealing with nose's real plank of contention which is about whether or not the Fulham engine is running smoothly or in something largely resembling reverse gear, at speed rather than having fun with English language which can, in some cases, end up with a yellow card?
Nose meant in his three posts saying that the club are failing in getting a 'big' striker we all know, as one who is like Smith, crouch etc and he knows that. Hence this question again was asked by myself trying to find who at the club had said this is what we needed. Of course no one at club has said this.
Im not against a player like that, I personally dont think we need one but I have said why elsewhere.
As for his other points, a very bad 45 minutes does not mean we are going backwards. Far from it we are building the bigger squad many want and will have more competition for places (which is another subject..is that a good or bad thing?).
In he big scheme of things we have three draws and a loss. Those results as we play more will just blend into the total number of games played. Its does not matter really if they happen at this time or spread over the season. At the end as long as we have enough for 6th or above im ok with that. Ive had us as 4th-6th this year and dont see anything to change that.
I can certainly have a go at answering that if you have no objections MjG.
Firstly we finished last season with an exceptionell run of form with a very settled starting line-up. The idea that we can just carry on where we left off and add a few players to become even better shows a bit of a lack of understanding for how team building works. Add to that how circumstances;injurys, sending -offs,new players etc have contrived against us and its not too difficult to understand that we are having abit of a blip in terms of results.
The performances have generally impressed me and with a bit of luck we could/should have beaten both Norwich and Leeds.
The pressure is on against Ipswich and Cardiff and we need to rise to the challenge.I think we can win the next two games I dont know about you.
a) Mmm, to have a 'blip' is only possible to call after the 'blip' has ended. The season before last our 'blip' lasted forty six games.
b) The match against Reading I have acknowledged was a good performance all things considered because we were chasing the game for so long before getting the equaliser with ten men. Against Norwich we didn't win because we apparently cannot score more than one goal, a disease that first appeared in the match against Brentford last term and has persisted - a 'blip' that is now seven games long.
c) What has changed this season in terms of team work is a lousy pre-season, and not much conviction, confidence, and freedom from the players on the pitch over ninety minutes in the competitive games so far. Should that not be a concern after the truly lack lustre stuff on display against Wednesday?
I feel the same concerns as everyone else. I dont think we were lacklustre against sheffield wednesday. They are a top side and would have less points than us if we had got the draw. As for pre-season etc ,neither of us know what that has been like, so lets not jump to too many conclusions. I believe that joka will get it right ,are you saying that you dont?
Quote from: toshes mate on August 21, 2017, 10:42:18 AM
a) Mmm, to have a 'blip' is only possible to call after the 'blip' has ended. The season before last our 'blip' lasted forty six games.
b) The match against Reading I have acknowledged was a good performance all things considered because we were chasing the game for so long before getting the equaliser with ten men. Against Norwich we didn't win because we apparently cannot score more than one goal, a disease that first appeared in the match against Brentford last term and has persisted - a 'blip' that is now seven games long.
c) What has changed this season in terms of team work is a lousy pre-season, and not much conviction, confidence, and freedom from the players on the pitch over ninety minutes in the competitive games so far. Should that not be a concern after the truly lack lustre stuff on display against Wednesday?
That blip of scoring only one goal at Brentford ended next game at Wednesday.
Quote from: MJG on August 21, 2017, 10:25:08 AM
Nose meant in his three posts ....
Thanks for giving my semantics more words than they deserved, MJG, I am seriously concerned that we are in reverse and travelling at speed because when things unravel at Fulham, boy do they unravel. I could tell you what I see in my crystal ball, a little hazy around the edges but forming into sharper relief far too quickly for my comfort but I am that disbelieving of it I really don't want to put it in the public domain. Fulham is not healthy, MJG, and it needs a spiritual uplift of the kind that doesn't come in bottles. I really do hope it is a blip but I fear it is not.
Quote from: MJG on August 21, 2017, 10:47:23 AM
Quote from: toshes mate on August 21, 2017, 10:42:18 AM
a) Mmm, to have a 'blip' is only possible to call after the 'blip' has ended. The season before last our 'blip' lasted forty six games.
b) The match against Reading I have acknowledged was a good performance all things considered because we were chasing the game for so long before getting the equaliser with ten men. Against Norwich we didn't win because we apparently cannot score more than one goal, a disease that first appeared in the match against Brentford last term and has persisted - a 'blip' that is now seven games long.
c) What has changed this season in terms of team work is a lousy pre-season, and not much conviction, confidence, and freedom from the players on the pitch over ninety minutes in the competitive games so far. Should that not be a concern after the truly lack lustre stuff on display against Wednesday?
That blip of scoring only one goal at Brentford ended next game at Wednesday.
Oh, you are so right MJG. It was against their second string and a bit meaningless, but yes, I will shut up now.
After four games I think it is absurd to continue on about those in management being at fault. But never the fault of the coach or the players who haven't hit form. Three games were ok. Even though I am told the teams we played will be poor this season. It happens and we need only a few players to complete the squad. Shame it couldn't be done earlier. However, as last season proved with the centre backs. Time will tell if the players brought in are the right players.
But yes it is absurd after four games to blame the same people. When the real questions lie on the pitch with the coach and the players. That doesn't mean I feel critical of them either. One very poor 45 minutes out of four or five matches does not a season make.
After only 4️⃣ matches we are already 9️⃣ points behind the top 2️⃣, I say that's cause for concern, and ironically 1️⃣ point above the relegation zone.
Nothing to lose too much sleep over yet.
Nevertheless, even if the top 2️⃣ lose their next 3️⃣ matches, and we win our next 3️⃣, we will only be level but still behind because other teams will gain points.
Winning early is as important as winning late or in mid season.
So far we haven't won, and haven't scored more than 1️⃣ goal in a game.
Let's remember there are plenty of other teams looking to be promoted and will not wait for Fulham to get their act together.
How come Cardiff City who have brought in new players, and they did it early. Can win their first 4️⃣ matches, it appears their new players can gel and settle quickly, so what's the secret, that dispels the boring rubbish about players needing to settle in etc, they are not aged 2️⃣ and a half years old. They are allegedly supposed to be professional, what has Neil Warnock got that Jok hasn't.
Excuses and saying be patient and let's hope for the best, and in so and so we trust will not win matches.
I will inform you of what wins matches.
Goals win matches, rolling your sleeves up, sweating blood, fire in your belly, and running through a brick wall and coming out fighting on the other side wins matches, and commitment and work rate and attitude and application as well as fitness, and the will to win, with a heart the size of a football, not forgetting good technique and a good first touch, and being mentally strong in adversity with the confidence in your own ability, as well as a little bit of skill.
That's what contributes to winning matches.
Is this not really about self managing the optimism? We finished last season with a flurry but failed the final test and we all had opinions as to why that was. Most of the angst seemed to revolve around the need to fill key positions, like a traditional No.9, with better than what we had. If we still had preseason optimism after the farcical friendlies the number of players coming in that had to be googled and You Tubed, ( is that now a verb?), would have been a further test of the optimistic resolve. We have already played some of the teams in the running last season and have not come out on top although reports have suggested we have battled hard and run the proverbial socks off. All the reports suggest we failed to take our opportunities which could be a cut and paste job from so many reports last season so could we, should we rightfully question the progress made or otherwise? On Saturday we lost to another contender from last season. They came across as having a game plan whilst we wasted opportunities, (cut and paste that), we lacked ideas/courage/resolve and they took the points. Button in the MoM frame again has to be concerning? We have a revitalised 'wanna be' contender coming up who will almost certainly not let us settle and may well bully our key strengths into being an ineffective side show. This particular match of course will be as we start another reshuffle to accommodate the new No.9, (who we have taking the corners), and who we could have had, apparently, in the starting line up four games ago. We have this seasons new contenders, who are set up and take each game as a fine tuning exercise, still to play and if we have ideas on promotion or a top six spot I feel we needed to have the fourteen set in stone and playing to a game plan by now. Fulham do have a habit of taking optimism to the very limits.
Couple of people have alluded to it but the preseason has really messed us about.
Injuries will happen through poor preparation, recovery or over exertion. The fact we went on 2 tours to play meaningless games with such small squads having too much playing time in preseason are simple own goals. The behind close doors friendlies don't have the same intensity as regular games against Lower league (which is what 90% of clubs do) and again is poor preparation.
The internationals messed about with us but that will happen most years. Cairney didn't have enough time off, Sess played 70/80 minutes against West Ham(?) a few days after winning the euro championship... and separating the squad into different tours for the u23s/u18s when we can barely fill a starting lineup for the seniors doesn't make sense
All the above means playing catch up, especially if you don't have your new signings on board in time for the tours. We are playing catch up and whoever designed this pre season schedule needs to be held to account . We could have spent pre season working on new tactics too and different ways of working but from the moment we stepped out in pre season with Betts frozen out, and Button offered out too, you knew it wasn't going to go well.
A simple pre season for a lower level team should only have one trip abroad, and at that I'd recommend later in pre season when players have developed fitness and allowed enough time for a few targeted signings to get on board. Start off against lower level London opposition; play Wimbledon or Kingstonian or whatever, in our new kit which is released early, it's a glamour tie for them so they'll provide decent opposition whilst us still having an easy life, the youths getting a shot, that means everyone, not ignoring the likes of Williams/ Humphrys etc even Sean Kavanagh if it means we only give 50/60 minutes max to the players we will count on come August
Come the middle of July, we get in one or two of the main targets, a Fonte type who we bid a sensible amount for without wasting time on 3 bids. He comes on board, we go to Austria for fitness camp and challenging games in decent stadiums in front of a decent crowd. as we are a forward thinking fan friendly club, we announce these fixtures 3/4 months in advance and offer fans the chance to come to Austria to follow the team.
Back to England and one or two transfers are being delayed but we get them on board for the annual glamour friendly, we put out a strong side to test ourselves but use the whole squad. Again, this tie is heavily promoted and advertised to get a real buzz with our new sponsors laying on entertainment to get us on board with the new brand.
Throughout pre season there are manager updates, insights into coaching and behind the scenes footage for those subscribed to fulhamfctv which has presenters, and guest players being interviewed one a week, maybe even involving the fans to help run it.
Just a thought on a simple , no nonsense pre season with everyone happy. Don't want to have a go at the club but there's so many things we can learn for next season, that or im actively looking employment as an events organiser or operations manager , thanks 😂😂
Quote from: Lighthouse on August 21, 2017, 11:52:25 AM
After four games I think it is absurd to continue on about those in management being at fault. But never the fault of the coach or the players who haven't hit form. Three games were ok. Even though I am told the teams we played will be poor this season. It happens and we need only a few players to complete the squad. Shame it couldn't be done earlier. However, as last season proved with the centre backs. Time will tell if the players brought in are the right players.
But yes it is absurd after four games to blame the same people. When the real questions lie on the pitch with the coach and the players. That doesn't mean I feel critical of them either. One very poor 45 minutes out of four or five matches does not a season make.
Agree with you lighthouse . well put!
Quote from: Statto on August 21, 2017, 01:53:06 PM
Quote from: MJG on August 21, 2017, 10:25:08 AM
In he big scheme of things we have three draws and a loss. Those results as we play more will just blend into the total number of games played. Its does not matter really if they happen at this time or spread over the season. At the end as long as we have enough for 6th or above im ok with that. Ive had us as 4th-6th this year and dont see anything to change that.
I've calmed down a bit since Saturday and now think if we win at Ipswich then all things considered, 6pts from this month is probably just about acceptable. But if we lose that game we will likely be 6-7pts from 6th and surely you of all people will agree that size gap takes a good month or two of consistently playing well just to make up. Personally I don't want to Spend all year playing catch up again and relying on another team having a Leeds-type capitulation. If we're in the same position around next February as we were last february, would you even count on us getting the same luck as last time and actually sneaking into the play-offs again? I wouldn't
Totally agree - 4 points from Cardiff/ Ipswich are a must.
Quote from: Statto on August 21, 2017, 01:53:06 PM
Quote from: MJG on August 21, 2017, 10:25:08 AM
In he big scheme of things we have three draws and a loss. Those results as we play more will just blend into the total number of games played. Its does not matter really if they happen at this time or spread over the season. At the end as long as we have enough for 6th or above im ok with that. Ive had us as 4th-6th this year and dont see anything to change that.
I've calmed down a bit since Saturday and now think if we win at Ipswich then all things considered, 6pts from this month is probably just about acceptable. But if we lose that game we will likely be 6-7pts from 6th and surely you of all people will agree that size gap takes a good month or two of consistently playing well just to make up. Personally I don't want to Spend all year playing catch up again and relying on another team having a Leeds-type capitulation. If we're in the same position around next February as we were last february, would you even count on us getting the same luck as last time and actually sneaking into the play-offs again? I wouldn't
I do agree its playing catch up time again. Something I had hoped we would not need to do. But I trust the way things work not to panic until I think its impossible.
Looking back Id said we had to be the best team for quite a while to make playoffs and we did. To do it twice would be very unlikely.
We were 8th and 4 points behind at halfway stage last year, Id want us to be no worse than that at end of the year, otherwise Id say its a very long shot.
Quote from: ScalleysDad on August 21, 2017, 01:07:28 PM
Is this not really about self managing the optimism? We finished last season with a flurry but failed the final test and we all had opinions as to why that was. Most of the angst seemed to revolve around the need to fill key positions, like a traditional No.9, with better than what we had. If we still had preseason optimism after the farcical friendlies the number of players coming in that had to be googled and You Tubed, ( is that now a verb?), would have been a further test of the optimistic resolve. We have already played some of the teams in the running last season and have not come out on top although reports have suggested we have battled hard and run the proverbial socks off. All the reports suggest we failed to take our opportunities which could be a cut and paste job from so many reports last season so could we, should we rightfully question the progress made or otherwise? On Saturday we lost to another contender from last season. They came across as having a game plan whilst we wasted opportunities, (cut and paste that), we lacked ideas/courage/resolve and they took the points. Button in the MoM frame again has to be concerning? We have a revitalised 'wanna be' contender coming up who will almost certainly not let us settle and may well bully our key strengths into being an ineffective side show. This particular match of course will be as we start another reshuffle to accommodate the new No.9, (who we have taking the corners), and who we could have had, apparently, in the starting line up four games ago. We have this seasons new contenders, who are set up and take each game as a fine tuning exercise, still to play and if we have ideas on promotion or a top six spot I feel we needed to have the fourteen set in stone and playing to a game plan by now. Fulham do have a habit of taking optimism to the very limits.
Really well put.
Oh, MJG, you'd wait until it is impossible before you panic? Please say you do not mean that. Surely we need to stir things up before we know that not only is promotion gone but relegation is a potential worry. As I have said several times now, the problem I see is that we are not scoring and whilst we are creating occasional opportunity we are not dominating play as per last term It has been there in odd patches but not as a spectacle to admire and say 'wow' as I did last term on many occasions. Yes, we had a few flops even during our good run, but for me something wasn't right about our pre-season and I believe it is because our squad lacked depth. It is only comparatively recently that we have seen the signings materialise and that may mean it is mid-September before we see any marked improvements. Hence my concerns.
Quote from: toshes mate on August 21, 2017, 03:05:28 PM
Oh, MJG, you'd wait until it is impossible before you panic? Please say you do not mean that. Surely we need to stir things up before we know that not only is promotion gone but relegation is a potential worry. As I have said several times now, the problem I see is that we are not scoring and whilst we are creating occasional opportunity we are not dominating play as per last term It has been there in odd patches but not as a spectacle to admire and say 'wow' as I did last term on many occasions. Yes, we had a few flops even during our good run, but for me something wasn't right about our pre-season and I believe it is because our squad lacked depth. It is only comparatively recently that we have seen the signings materialise and that may mean it is mid-September before we see any marked improvements. Hence my concerns.
Whats the point of panicking?
I remember us losing to Birmingham last year and lots of people said thats it season over we are done lets all pack up and go home. But we still had a chance and we took it. 4 games in way too early top even contemplate throwing it all in.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on August 21, 2017, 12:11:51 PM
After only 4️⃣ matches we are already 9️⃣ points behind the top 2️⃣, I say that's cause for concern, and ironically 1️⃣ point above the relegation zone.
Nothing to lose too much sleep over yet.
Nevertheless, even if the top 2️⃣ lose their next 3️⃣ matches, and we win our next 3️⃣, we will only be level but still behind because other teams will gain points.
Winning early is as important as winning late or in mid season.
So far we haven't won, and haven't scored more than 1️⃣ goal in a game.
Let's remember there are plenty of other teams looking to be promoted and will not wait for Fulham to get their act together.
How come Cardiff City who have brought in new players, and they did it early. Can win their first 4️⃣ matches, it appears their new players can gel and settle quickly, so what's the secret, that dispels the boring rubbish about players needing to settle in etc, they are not aged 2️⃣ and a half years old. They are allegedly supposed to be professional, what has Neil Warnock got that Jok hasn't.
Excuses and saying be patient and let's hope for the best, and in so and so we trust will not win matches.
I will inform you of what wins matches.
Goals win matches, rolling your sleeves up, sweating blood, fire in your belly, and running through a brick wall and coming out fighting on the other side wins matches, and commitment and work rate and attitude and application as well as fitness, and the will to win, with a heart the size of a football, not forgetting good technique and a good first touch, and being mentally strong in adversity with the confidence in your own ability, as well as a little bit of skill.
That's what contributes to winning matches.
Hit all the Nails on the head Woolly. I would just add that at the start of MaGath reign the first 3-4 games we were unlucky and could so easily have won rather than lost those games if we had taken our chances. Bet our players confidence and self belief in the system is a bit undermined at the moment, we need a convincing win at Ipswich to get back on track, I believe this next league game is vital to win just from a confidence and pulling the team together angle. If we lose then it will put us into the position of having to win/ not lose games so as not to start looking over our shoulder, never a good position to be in when walking out at the start of the match
Quote from: toshes mate on August 21, 2017, 10:42:18 AM
a) Mmm, to have a 'blip' is only possible to call after the 'blip' has ended. The season before last our 'blip' lasted forty six games.
b) The match against Reading I have acknowledged was a good performance all things considered because we were chasing the game for so long before getting the equaliser with ten men. Against Norwich we didn't win because we apparently cannot score more than one goal, a disease that first appeared in the match against Brentford last term and has persisted - a 'blip' that is now seven games long.
c) What has changed this season in terms of team work is a lousy pre-season, and not much conviction, confidence, and freedom from the players on the pitch over ninety minutes in the competitive games so far. Should that not be a concern after the truly lack lustre stuff on display against Wednesday?
:plus one: Tosh
I must say I can agree with Nose re the lack of speed and application by the club to get the signings we needed early.
As I've said on another thread we have been unlucky with injuries to key players. That, as well as new players needing to gel may slow the start of our season somewhat.
But this division does have some slack in it re the top two promotion slots. It is certainly not, imo, as unforgiving as the Premiership where 4 losses means u can't win it.
So although disappointed, I believe if we gel soon we will be able to recoup the dropped points. It does need to be soon tho.
COYW!
Quote from: nose on August 20, 2017, 09:17:33 PM
many of the posts here are suggesting the critical nature of mine and others posts is absurd.
Is that true? are we being absurd?
four games in three points, two goals scored, and one was an OG.
The manager has already had at least two and possibly three interviews where he laments the transfer policy. I am with him.
I was told by the same people from feb to May we were the highest points scorers (or were newc better?), whatever we did brilliantly. but we started with injuries and suspensions and as suggested that has caused us grief. we lost our LB and that is a problem and we need the CB and big forward we can all see we need. maybe a new LB is about to arrive, who knows how good he might be or whether he will fit in or even that Joca likes him!
From being so good, it has taen us four games intot the season not to be demonstatably as good as last season.
we should already be much much better.
is it absud to how concern when the management act so painfully slowly?
Re transfer policy, he knew very well what the transfer policy was yet he still chose to sign the contract, so in my humble opinion he can't keep harping on about it now. If he did not like this system why choose to work with it.
I don't see the point in getting depressed. I look at the team and I like the new acquisitions, I was sorry to see Malone go but SJ is reportedly ok with that. As for the rest, I reckon once this team gels it'll be quite something to watch. Let's just hope it starts with the next game!
Quote from: Newry FFC on August 21, 2017, 01:45:19 PM
Couple of people have alluded to it but the preseason has really messed us about.
Injuries will happen through poor preparation, recovery or over exertion. The fact we went on 2 tours to play meaningless games with such small squads having too much playing time in preseason are simple own goals. The behind close doors friendlies don't have the same intensity as regular games against Lower league (which is what 90% of clubs do) and again is poor preparation.
The internationals messed about with us but that will happen most years. Cairney didn't have enough time off, Sess played 70/80 minutes against West Ham(?) a few days after winning the euro championship... and separating the squad into different tours for the u23s/u18s when we can barely fill a starting lineup for the seniors doesn't make sense
All the above means playing catch up, especially if you don't have your new signings on board in time for the tours. We are playing catch up and whoever designed this pre season schedule needs to be held to account . We could have spent pre season working on new tactics too and different ways of working but from the moment we stepped out in pre season with Betts frozen out, and Button offered out too, you knew it wasn't going to go well.
A simple pre season for a lower level team should only have one trip abroad, and at that I'd recommend later in pre season when players have developed fitness and allowed enough time for a few targeted signings to get on board. Start off against lower level London opposition; play Wimbledon or Kingstonian or whatever, in our new kit which is released early, it's a glamour tie for them so they'll provide decent opposition whilst us still having an easy life, the youths getting a shot, that means everyone, not ignoring the likes of Williams/ Humphrys etc even Sean Kavanagh if it means we only give 50/60 minutes max to the players we will count on come August
Come the middle of July, we get in one or two of the main targets, a Fonte type who we bid a sensible amount for without wasting time on 3 bids. He comes on board, we go to Austria for fitness camp and challenging games in decent stadiums in front of a decent crowd. as we are a forward thinking fan friendly club, we announce these fixtures 3/4 months in advance and offer fans the chance to come to Austria to follow the team.
Back to England and one or two transfers are being delayed but we get them on board for the annual glamour friendly, we put out a strong side to test ourselves but use the whole squad. Again, this tie is heavily promoted and advertised to get a real buzz with our new sponsors laying on entertainment to get us on board with the new brand.
Throughout pre season there are manager updates, insights into coaching and behind the scenes footage for those subscribed to fulhamfctv which has presenters, and guest players being interviewed one a week, maybe even involving the fans to help run it.
Just a thought on a simple , no nonsense pre season with everyone happy. Don't want to have a go at the club but there's so many things we can learn for next season, that or im actively looking employment as an events organiser or operations manager , thanks 😂😂
It's a long post but I agree. It was an ill conceived pre-season. amateurish.
Presumably arranged on SJs instruction or is he claiming no responsibility for that either. I think we need to look at the coaching team for the poor start as much as anyone else
Quote from: Twig on August 21, 2017, 09:11:51 PM
Quote from: Newry FFC on August 21, 2017, 01:45:19 PM
Couple of people have alluded to it but the preseason has really messed us about.
Injuries will happen through poor preparation, recovery or over exertion. The fact we went on 2 tours to play meaningless games with such small squads having too much playing time in preseason are simple own goals. The behind close doors friendlies don't have the same intensity as regular games against Lower league (which is what 90% of clubs do) and again is poor preparation.
The internationals messed about with us but that will happen most years. Cairney didn't have enough time off, Sess played 70/80 minutes against West Ham(?) a few days after winning the euro championship... and separating the squad into different tours for the u23s/u18s when we can barely fill a starting lineup for the seniors doesn't make sense
All the above means playing catch up, especially if you don't have your new signings on board in time for the tours. We are playing catch up and whoever designed this pre season schedule needs to be held to account . We could have spent pre season working on new tactics too and different ways of working but from the moment we stepped out in pre season with Betts frozen out, and Button offered out too, you knew it wasn't going to go well.
A simple pre season for a lower level team should only have one trip abroad, and at that I'd recommend later in pre season when players have developed fitness and allowed enough time for a few targeted signings to get on board. Start off against lower level London opposition; play Wimbledon or Kingstonian or whatever, in our new kit which is released early, it's a glamour tie for them so they'll provide decent opposition whilst us still having an easy life, the youths getting a shot, that means everyone, not ignoring the likes of Williams/ Humphrys etc even Sean Kavanagh if it means we only give 50/60 minutes max to the players we will count on come August
Come the middle of July, we get in one or two of the main targets, a Fonte type who we bid a sensible amount for without wasting time on 3 bids. He comes on board, we go to Austria for fitness camp and challenging games in decent stadiums in front of a decent crowd. as we are a forward thinking fan friendly club, we announce these fixtures 3/4 months in advance and offer fans the chance to come to Austria to follow the team.
Back to England and one or two transfers are being delayed but we get them on board for the annual glamour friendly, we put out a strong side to test ourselves but use the whole squad. Again, this tie is heavily promoted and advertised to get a real buzz with our new sponsors laying on entertainment to get us on board with the new brand.
Throughout pre season there are manager updates, insights into coaching and behind the scenes footage for those subscribed to fulhamfctv which has presenters, and guest players being interviewed one a week, maybe even involving the fans to help run it.
Just a thought on a simple , no nonsense pre season with everyone happy. Don't want to have a go at the club but there's so many things we can learn for next season, that or im actively looking employment as an events organiser or operations manager , thanks 😂😂
It's a long post but I agree. It was an ill conceived pre-season. amateurish.
Blimey Twig.
I suggest the club sign you up.
😊
Quote from: Skatzoffc on August 21, 2017, 10:35:15 PM
Quote from: Twig on August 21, 2017, 09:11:51 PM
Quote from: Newry FFC on August 21, 2017, 01:45:19 PM
Couple of people have alluded to it but the preseason has really messed us about.
Injuries will happen through poor preparation, recovery or over exertion. The fact we went on 2 tours to play meaningless games with such small squads having too much playing time in preseason are simple own goals. The behind close doors friendlies don't have the same intensity as regular games against Lower league (which is what 90% of clubs do) and again is poor preparation.
The internationals messed about with us but that will happen most years. Cairney didn't have enough time off, Sess played 70/80 minutes against West Ham(?) a few days after winning the euro championship... and separating the squad into different tours for the u23s/u18s when we can barely fill a starting lineup for the seniors doesn't make sense
All the above means playing catch up, especially if you don't have your new signings on board in time for the tours. We are playing catch up and whoever designed this pre season schedule needs to be held to account . We could have spent pre season working on new tactics too and different ways of working but from the moment we stepped out in pre season with Betts frozen out, and Button offered out too, you knew it wasn't going to go well.
A simple pre season for a lower level team should only have one trip abroad, and at that I'd recommend later in pre season when players have developed fitness and allowed enough time for a few targeted signings to get on board. Start off against lower level London opposition; play Wimbledon or Kingstonian or whatever, in our new kit which is released early, it's a glamour tie for them so they'll provide decent opposition whilst us still having an easy life, the youths getting a shot, that means everyone, not ignoring the likes of Williams/ Humphrys etc even Sean Kavanagh if it means we only give 50/60 minutes max to the players we will count on come August
Come the middle of July, we get in one or two of the main targets, a Fonte type who we bid a sensible amount for without wasting time on 3 bids. He comes on board, we go to Austria for fitness camp and challenging games in decent stadiums in front of a decent crowd. as we are a forward thinking fan friendly club, we announce these fixtures 3/4 months in advance and offer fans the chance to come to Austria to follow the team.
Back to England and one or two transfers are being delayed but we get them on board for the annual glamour friendly, we put out a strong side to test ourselves but use the whole squad. Again, this tie is heavily promoted and advertised to get a real buzz with our new sponsors laying on entertainment to get us on board with the new brand.
Throughout pre season there are manager updates, insights into coaching and behind the scenes footage for those subscribed to fulhamfctv which has presenters, and guest players being interviewed one a week, maybe even involving the fans to help run it.
Just a thought on a simple , no nonsense pre season with everyone happy. Don't want to have a go at the club but there's so many things we can learn for next season, that or im actively looking employment as an events organiser or operations manager , thanks 😂😂
It's a long post but I agree. It was an ill conceived pre-season. amateurish.
Blimey Twig.
I suggest the club sign you up.
😊
Sounds good, Twig. Are you the new Sarah - or Harry Potter?
Quote from: Skatzoffc on August 21, 2017, 10:35:15 PM
Quote from: Twig on August 21, 2017, 09:11:51 PM
Quote from: Newry FFC on August 21, 2017, 01:45:19 PM
Couple of people have alluded to it but the preseason has really messed us about.
Injuries will happen through poor preparation, recovery or over exertion. The fact we went on 2 tours to play meaningless games with such small squads having too much playing time in preseason are simple own goals. The behind close doors friendlies don't have the same intensity as regular games against Lower league (which is what 90% of clubs do) and again is poor preparation.
The internationals messed about with us but that will happen most years. Cairney didn't have enough time off, Sess played 70/80 minutes against West Ham(?) a few days after winning the euro championship... and separating the squad into different tours for the u23s/u18s when we can barely fill a starting lineup for the seniors doesn't make sense
All the above means playing catch up, especially if you don't have your new signings on board in time for the tours. We are playing catch up and whoever designed this pre season schedule needs to be held to account . We could have spent pre season working on new tactics too and different ways of working but from the moment we stepped out in pre season with Betts frozen out, and Button offered out too, you knew it wasn't going to go well.
A simple pre season for a lower level team should only have one trip abroad, and at that I'd recommend later in pre season when players have developed fitness and allowed enough time for a few targeted signings to get on board. Start off against lower level London opposition; play Wimbledon or Kingstonian or whatever, in our new kit which is released early, it's a glamour tie for them so they'll provide decent opposition whilst us still having an easy life, the youths getting a shot, that means everyone, not ignoring the likes of Williams/ Humphrys etc even Sean Kavanagh if it means we only give 50/60 minutes max to the players we will count on come August
Come the middle of July, we get in one or two of the main targets, a Fonte type who we bid a sensible amount for without wasting time on 3 bids. He comes on board, we go to Austria for fitness camp and challenging games in decent stadiums in front of a decent crowd. as we are a forward thinking fan friendly club, we announce these fixtures 3/4 months in advance and offer fans the chance to come to Austria to follow the team.
Back to England and one or two transfers are being delayed but we get them on board for the annual glamour friendly, we put out a strong side to test ourselves but use the whole squad. Again, this tie is heavily promoted and advertised to get a real buzz with our new sponsors laying on entertainment to get us on board with the new brand.
Throughout pre season there are manager updates, insights into coaching and behind the scenes footage for those subscribed to fulhamfctv which has presenters, and guest players being interviewed one a week, maybe even involving the fans to help run it.
Just a thought on a simple , no nonsense pre season with everyone happy. Don't want to have a go at the club but there's so many things we can learn for next season, that or im actively looking employment as an events organiser or operations manager , thanks 😂😂
It's a long post but I agree. It was an ill conceived pre-season. amateurish.
Blimey Twig.
I suggest the club sign you up.
😊
Twice 2️⃣
Blimey. Is Twig getting the praise for my suggestions?
Twig for President! 😂
