When do we decide enough is enough?

[MJG]

In all this, let's not overlook that last season our top 4 goal scorers were Cairney, Johansen, Aluko and Martin. A+M have gone without being 'entirely' replaced and Cairney and Johansen have both been injured or playing with injuries.   That's a tough call.

All true and thats why when a decision is made to remove a manager you need to look at the overall picture.

Even with my five game rule, if you have just played Spurs, Liverpool, Man Utd, Chelsea and Man city, even then you have to give them some slack

[toshes mate]

The argument, and I presume this is how it was thought through by the recruitment team, for selling Aluko and Malone is that they could be replaced with better players.  Unfortunately that has not been the case and also cut against the head coach's wishes.

If we get rid of SJ the same arguments, reasoning and thinking through apply.  If I had any reason to doubt SJ's credentials as a top coach I would have expressed them long ago but there is absolutely no evidence he has lost the dressing room which was being suggested in these threads pre-Derby and even before that.  I agree with those who say SJ needs a proper window (or even two) to get things back on track because losing Aluko, Malone and Martin without finding proper replacements has already cost us dear in terms of points.

[Marcel_Gecov]

The argument, and I presume this is how it was thought through by the recruitment team, for selling Aluko and Malone is that they could be replaced with better players.  Unfortunately that has not been the case and also cut against the head coach's wishes.

If we get rid of SJ the same arguments, reasoning and thinking through apply.  If I had any reason to doubt SJ's credentials as a top coach I would have expressed them long ago but there is absolutely no evidence he has lost the dressing room which was being suggested in these threads pre-Derby and even before that.  I agree with those who say SJ needs a proper window (or even two) to get things back on track because losing Aluko, Malone and Martin without finding proper replacements has already cost us dear in terms of points.

+1 I think Joka's contract is up at the end of the season so we should see this season out and see where we are. Add some decent players (not a total rebuild) and focus on next year. I still think however that if we sort ourselves out we can make the playoffs again.

[MJG]

The argument, and I presume this is how it was thought through by the recruitment team, for selling Aluko and Malone is that they could be replaced with better players.  Unfortunately that has not been the case and also cut against the head coach's wishes.

If we get rid of SJ the same arguments, reasoning and thinking through apply.  If I had any reason to doubt SJ's credentials as a top coach I would have expressed them long ago but there is absolutely no evidence he has lost the dressing room which was being suggested in these threads pre-Derby and even before that.  I agree with those who say SJ needs a proper window (or even two) to get things back on track because losing Aluko, Malone and Martin without finding proper replacements has already cost us dear in terms of points.

+1 I think Joka's contract is up at the end of the season so we should see this season out and see where we are. Add some decent players (not a total rebuild) and focus on next year. I still think however that if we sort ourselves out we can make the playoffs again.

His contract is till summer of 2019

[Marcel_Gecov]

The argument, and I presume this is how it was thought through by the recruitment team, for selling Aluko and Malone is that they could be replaced with better players.  Unfortunately that has not been the case and also cut against the head coach's wishes.

If we get rid of SJ the same arguments, reasoning and thinking through apply.  If I had any reason to doubt SJ's credentials as a top coach I would have expressed them long ago but there is absolutely no evidence he has lost the dressing room which was being suggested in these threads pre-Derby and even before that.  I agree with those who say SJ needs a proper window (or even two) to get things back on track because losing Aluko, Malone and Martin without finding proper replacements has already cost us dear in terms of points.

+1 I think Joka's contract is up at the end of the season so we should see this season out and see where we are. Add some decent players (not a total rebuild) and focus on next year. I still think however that if we sort ourselves out we can make the playoffs again.

His contract is till summer of 2019

Is it not 2018 + option of an extra year? If I'm wrong fact remains that we need to know in the summer that we 100% behind Joka or he needs to go.

[MJG]

The argument, and I presume this is how it was thought through by the recruitment team, for selling Aluko and Malone is that they could be replaced with better players.  Unfortunately that has not been the case and also cut against the head coach's wishes.

If we get rid of SJ the same arguments, reasoning and thinking through apply.  If I had any reason to doubt SJ's credentials as a top coach I would have expressed them long ago but there is absolutely no evidence he has lost the dressing room which was being suggested in these threads pre-Derby and even before that.  I agree with those who say SJ needs a proper window (or even two) to get things back on track because losing Aluko, Malone and Martin without finding proper replacements has already cost us dear in terms of points.

+1 I think Joka's contract is up at the end of the season so we should see this season out and see where we are. Add some decent players (not a total rebuild) and focus on next year. I still think however that if we sort ourselves out we can make the playoffs again.

His contract is till summer of 2019

Is it not 2018 + option of an extra year? If I'm wrong fact remains that we need to know in the summer that we 100% behind Joka or he needs to go.

not in anything i've read or been told. Full till 2019...but then what do contracts really mean?

[Marcel_Gecov]

The argument, and I presume this is how it was thought through by the recruitment team, for selling Aluko and Malone is that they could be replaced with better players.  Unfortunately that has not been the case and also cut against the head coach's wishes.

If we get rid of SJ the same arguments, reasoning and thinking through apply.  If I had any reason to doubt SJ's credentials as a top coach I would have expressed them long ago but there is absolutely no evidence he has lost the dressing room which was being suggested in these threads pre-Derby and even before that.  I agree with those who say SJ needs a proper window (or even two) to get things back on track because losing Aluko, Malone and Martin without finding proper replacements has already cost us dear in terms of points.

+1 I think Joka's contract is up at the end of the season so we should see this season out and see where we are. Add some decent players (not a total rebuild) and focus on next year. I still think however that if we sort ourselves out we can make the playoffs again.

His contract is till summer of 2019

Is it not 2018 + option of an extra year? If I'm wrong fact remains that we need to know in the summer that we 100% behind Joka or he needs to go.

not in anything i've read or been told. Full till 2019...but then what do contracts really mean?

True dat.

I was certain that it was only a one year extension with option but happy to be wrong :)

Just checked, bugger, your right.

[Wearethewhites]

He signed a new, 2 year deal, not long after the Spurs cup game last season. The 2 year deal, if I'm correct, didn't come into effect, until the end of last season.

I have it, that he's not even through the first year year of his new contact yet, and it'll be up end of the 18/19 season.

[Logicalman]

Are you saying you want sack Jokanovic? If so who are you suggesting we put in his place?

Pulis is available.....

.. and there's a reason for that!

I'll pass on TP and his brand of footie.

[Marcel_Gecov]

He signed a new, 2 year deal, not long after the Spurs cup game last season. The 2 year deal, if I'm correct, didn't come into effect, until the end of last season.

I have it, that he's not even through the first year year of his new contact yet, and it'll be up end of the 18/19 season.

The question for me is whether Joka is essentially Theo Walcott and plays to his best to earn new contracts and then slackens off. (I doubt this is the case btw just spitballing)

[Logicalman]

Colours: I'm always for not sacking a manager until/unless it the last resort. Slav is a good manager, imo, and we could do lot, lot worse, and not much better given the current crop available, which is all that matters.

I see the argument being put forward that, during the (de)Kline years Slav did not have the free hand that most managers prefer/need to build the team they can work with, and therefore we have to give Slav the benefit here, and let him run it through the window, but the club HAVE to back him and make funds available so he can prove his worth. ANY manager is a crap manager if he both doesn't have the best players AND the purse strings are tied.

[Patrick]

Are you saying you want sack Jokanovic? If so who are you suggesting we put in his place?

Pulis is available.....

.. and there's a reason for that!

I'll pass on TP and his brand of footie.

Just kidding.....although I feel that the 'Joka' experiment is not working..and not going to work....his 'approach' is too rigid...and we have been totally found out by virtually all the division....even Burton!!!....a really poor side...I went up to that that game....one word...disgraceful...     

To get promoted from the Championship you need fighters..combined with a few ''effective'' goal scorers....and a tight defence.......we have McDonald....no quality goal scorer and an error-prone defence.....Cairney and McDonald...and to a lesser extent Johansen and Fred have been our only decent performers this season....all the foreign purchases have been basically rubbish.....but I feel the real problem is the Joka 'strategy' ...it has been found out.

Personally speaking...if we don't win against Millwall on Saturday...I would remove him...so as to give the new man a period to review prior to the January window..

[filham]

Difficult to say that any of the above posts are totally wrong but a 3-0 win at Sheffield tonight and they all become nul and void.

[Marcel_Gecov]

Difficult to say that any of the above posts are totally wrong but a 3-0 win at Sheffield tonight and they all become nul and void.

For this week...

[One Martin Thomas]

Tonight's line up has annoyed me ! Ayite is not a striker Joka.

[HV71]

For me it isn't just about what Jokanovic does it's about what others DONT do . E

If your manager doesn't want to lose either Aluko or Malone and others decide that they know better - then they are at fault as it is abundantly clear that we miss both. Jokanovic took a hard line with Martin but still played him because he knew we needed that type of front man. He got Fonte and KAmara - neither of which is that type of player. For Pete's sake everyone - if you were at work and your bosses ignored your expertise - how would you feel ? Are you blind , deaf and dumb ? As I have said in previous posts - get real , smell the coffee and put
yourself in his shoes - If you did you would be at least cross  - I would be absolutely furious and at least I worked in an industry where my Chairman had done the job and knew about the industry . Not the case at Fulham - the incumbents obviously new more about sumo wrestling than football ( sorry soccer !!!! )

Give me strength !

[Bassey the warrior]

Hello, I have noticed that many of the Slav-out posts get removed.

I am dedicated season ticket holder and big fan of the old FFC.

But I also want to see some WINS for my hard-earned money.

There are good managers out there, who know how to play Championship football.

Even Championship on Five (rightly) said at the weekend that we are the standout underperfomers in this league. We are not a nursery, we have ambition to get back to the PL.

Why is everyone on this site apparently so complacent?

How many more draws/losses?

Good timing mate. Feeling a little red faced?

[Logicalman]

Hello, I have noticed that many of the Slav-out posts get removed.

I am dedicated season ticket holder and big fan of the old FFC.

But I also want to see some WINS for my hard-earned money.

There are good managers out there, who know how to play Championship football.

Even Championship on Five (rightly) said at the weekend that we are the standout underperfomers in this league. We are not a nursery, we have ambition to get back to the PL.

Why is everyone on this site apparently so complacent?

How many more draws/losses?

Good timing mate. Feeling a little red faced?

Well, hindsight is always right, isn't it?  :033:

This is a good thread, with good views, and the OP was right to bring it up (even if I disagreed).

[Bassey the warrior]

Hello, I have noticed that many of the Slav-out posts get removed.

I am dedicated season ticket holder and big fan of the old FFC.

But I also want to see some WINS for my hard-earned money.

There are good managers out there, who know how to play Championship football.

Even Championship on Five (rightly) said at the weekend that we are the standout underperfomers in this league. We are not a nursery, we have ambition to get back to the PL.

Why is everyone on this site apparently so complacent?

How many more draws/losses?

Good timing mate. Feeling a little red faced?

Well, hindsight is always right, isn't it?  :033:

This is a good thread, with good views, and the OP was right to bring it up (even if I disagreed).

I disagreed.

[Twig]

Hello, I have noticed that many of the Slav-out posts get removed.

I am dedicated season ticket holder and big fan of the old FFC.

But I also want to see some WINS for my hard-earned money.

There are good managers out there, who know how to play Championship football.

Even Championship on Five (rightly) said at the weekend that we are the standout underperfomers in this league. We are not a nursery, we have ambition to get back to the PL.

Why is everyone on this site apparently so complacent?

How many more draws/losses?

Good timing mate. Feeling a little red faced?

Well, hindsight is always right, isn't it?  :033:

This is a good thread, with good views, and the OP was right to bring it up (even if I disagreed).

I agree the OP had every right to bring this up but you say "he was right to bring it up".  I'm not so sure; it was posted after the Derby game and anyone who was there could see that was a much improved performance,  it was as if the weight of Kline and all the politics had been lifted and the lads felt free to focus on football.  Last night's result showed more of the same.

Things are not ideal; defensive frailties, poor summer signings, lack of a central striker and even the failure to bring in a really top class keeper.  But what most of these have in common is that they relate to our transfer policy not Joka's management.  And I don't really buy the argument that he is inflexible, he has tried a number of variations and permutations within his overall preferred style.  To me that is staying true to your beliefs not inflexibility.