Time for Bettinelli?

[colinwhite]

It will be interesting.Buttons has had a good season but has been more passive of late when it comes to going out for crosses.
It all comes down to how Bettenelli has been in training ; if he has been really knocking at the door then maybe he will come in.
I wouldnt drop Buttons but sometimes another voice between the sticks can make a  significant difference.

[filham]

I have not viewed last night's goals . If more than one of them were real keeper blunders then yes the manager should give thought to playing Betts,
However I have seen every game at the Cottage this season and Button has always played well. In my opinion therefore he deserves to keep his place.

[Count Flapula]

Granted his long kicking will probably always be pony

Why is that something our fans are okay with? That just seems utterly mad to me.

He is a goalkeeper, he needs to be able to distribute effectively, or am I wishing for too much?

I'd far rather out up with a GK who can't kick long when our game is about short passing out from the back, rather than install a GK who looks completely all at sea almost every time a cross / corner comes in - that will cost us more goals than a poor long goal kick.

Bringing in a GK who has NO command of his box for crosses combined with a defence already low on confidence / already vulnerable physically at corners (Button is probably the only player I don't worry about at corners) is a recipe for disaster - not improvement. The question should be why should the fans put up with a GK who can't catch.

Sounds like I'm seriously digging out Betts - he is talented but that is a big weakness in his game. If he was playing behind an imposing, solid, organised back 4 who could cover his deficiencies better then maybe give him a chance. I just don't think him behind this current back line would mean big problems.

[Twig]

Granted his long kicking will probably always be pony

Why is that something our fans are okay with? That just seems utterly mad to me.

He is a goalkeeper, he needs to be able to distribute effectively, or am I wishing for too much?

I'd far rather out up with a GK who can't kick long when our game is about short passing out from the back, rather than install a GK who looks completely all at sea almost every time a cross / corner comes in - that will cost us more goals than a poor long goal kick.

Bringing in a GK who has NO command of his box for crosses combined with a defence already low on confidence / already vulnerable physically at corners (Button is probably the only player I don't worry about at corners) is a recipe for disaster - not improvement. The question should be why should the fans put up with a GK who can't catch.

Sounds like I'm seriously digging out Betts - he is talented but that is a big weakness in his game. If he was playing behind an imposing, solid, organised back 4 who could cover his deficiencies better then maybe give him a chance. I just don't think him behind this current back line would mean bug problems.

Betts dealt pretty well with crosses in the latter half of last season.  I understand your concern but I think it is based on an outdated view.

[toshes mate]

Button was at fault for the first two goals and he'd be first to admit it.  However, for the analysis of the two late 'gifted' goals one has to look at the whole team and how it is attitude higher up the pitch than the goalkeeper to suss out what went wrong.

The coaches will determine just how Button has dealt with last night's game and feedback.  Whatever the decision is it won't be purely based on one man's two mistakes when others over the whole pitch made many more poor decisions.  We won a game by outscoring our opponents and if we do that every remaining game this season we'll have 107 points and I won't be caring who played in goal.....

[Fulham1959]

Button has been really solid this season - much improved and I have been so pleased (for him) that his form has improved.

Over the last 10 years or so it seems that goalkeepers have been coached to save with their feet as much as with their hands.  'Back in the day' I think fans would have screamed 'use your hands' if a keeper had kicked a ball away rather than trying to gather it.  There are plusses and minuses with this but I feel a couple of shots may have been saved last night with the old fashioned method.  In my youth, as a goalkeeper at the lowest levels, I would never have dreamed of using my feet to save a shot !

Immediately Bettinelli came in at the end of last season, we went on a fantastic run.  I like him a lot yet I feel it would be wrong to drop Button purely for last night's performance.

[Madman Maddle]

I'm a big fan of Button, especially this season he's been superb. Yesterday he was responsible for 2 goals. One mistake can always happen, but two in the same game is harsh. Shouldn't have even come to that if our defenders would position themselves properly. However, there is no excuse for Button. Betts should get the chance to show if he has improved.

[Carborundum]

Good goalies have occasional bad nights on shot stopping.  The first was a 100% clanger.  The second I'm not so sure about - not convinced by conventional wisdom that a well positioned goalie should never concede on the near post.   Sometimes they get too close to the near stick, leave too much wide open on the other side, all in the interests of not being embarrassed.  Button's been good this season.  I'd give him benefit of the doubt and stick with him

Bettinellis problems with distribution in the Reading home leg makes me think he's not yet the man for the big occasion and may never be.  He was practically paralysed with indecision.  In contrast Button gets put in the brown stuff and has got better at dealing with it.

Selling Betts and buying someone better seems a reasonable plan for January.

[Chutney]

I have not viewed last night's goals . If more than one of them were real keeper blunders then yes the manager should give thought to playing Betts,
However I have seen every game at the Cottage this season and Button has always played well. In my opinion therefore he deserves to keep his place.

Three of them were arguably Button's fault, the first two were entirely his fault.

[Wearethewhites]

I wasn't a fan when we first signed Button, actually, I was quite surprised, and thought we'd have gone for better calibre, especially when we had McCarthy sitting at Motspur the January before.

For me, both are not good enough, but, Button for me, is the best of a bad bunch. Both have their faults, both have their qualities, but there isn't enough in the pair to start chopping and changing.

Moving forward, I'd like to see this position improved, and another goalkeeper brought in.

Button was Flowers recommendation, by all accounts.   

[Count Flapula]

[quote author=Twig link=topic=62602.msg914224#msg914224 date
Betts dealt pretty well with crosses in the latter half of last season.  I understand your concern but I think it is based on an outdated view.
[/quote]

Sorry but I was at the games and he just didn't - he definitely still flapped at multiple crosses. When he came in he did well overall but was still decidedly dodgy on crosses - luckily it didn't cost us a goal during his run. That was behind a defence with more confidence as well - now we are leaking goals and other than last night Button has been solid all season. EVERY GK has a bad game at some point, dropping them after one bad game is knee jerk and can cause more harm than good.

[Mince n Tatties]

If you look at the Greats like Banks and Shilton they never made unnecessary saves and giving away cheap corners,they could judge a shot from anywhere that was going 6inches past the post or over the bar.
A lot of the shotstoppers today can't do that they have to make a spectacular save to make them look good,and give away a corner when the ball was going wide or over the top.

[Fulham1959]

Good goalies have occasional bad nights on shot stopping.  The first was a 100% clanger.  The second I'm not so sure about - not convinced by conventional wisdom that a well positioned goalie should never concede on the near post.   Sometimes they get too close to the near stick, leave too much wide open on the other side, all in the interests of not being embarrassed.  Button's been good this season.  I'd give him benefit of the doubt and stick with him

Bettinellis problems with distribution in the Reading home leg makes me think he's not yet the man for the big occasion and may never be.  He was practically paralysed with indecision.  In contrast Button gets put in the brown stuff and has got better at dealing with it.

Selling Betts and buying someone better seems a reasonable plan for January.

It has become a cheap cliché for commentators to use whenever it happens and should in no way be applied in every instance.  It's in the same category as, "if it isn't a penalty, then the attacker should be booked for diving" - that lazy, non-thinking comment that co-commentators used to make, as if a normal everyday fair tackle (when at least one player goes down through impact) could not take place in the penalty box.

While I'm at it, that a goalkeeper's parry should always be pushed wide of danger, is also a cliché.  Sometimes, that a goalkeeper has even been able to reach the ball can be an achievement in itself - never mind also being required to push the ball wide of the immediate action.

[The Swan]

Long overdue. Against Derby he threw the ball to Sess who was closed down by three Derby players. He lost the ball and they went on to score.

[J.Perkins]

Long overdue. Against Derby he threw the ball to Sess who was closed down by three Derby players. He lost the ball and they went on to score.

As you just said, Sessegnon lost the ball, not Button.

He dropped deep, making himself available.

[aaronmcguigan]

When people have weak games they should expect to be dropped or rested. This is as the same as Fonte not being a regular, as the same as Kalas being dropped earlier in the season. I don't see why a keepers position shouldn't be under threat if he plays poorly or makes errors. Button was #1 at the start of 2017/18 and played well to stay ahead of Betts when Marcus regained fitness. But whether Button is dropped is not only down to his mistakes or his form, Marcus and Magnus, whoever else needs to show it on the training pitch. Odd that Marcus doesn't play in u23 games as one of the older players, not a regular but one or 2 games to blow off the cobwebs. If he's good enough for the bench he needs a bit of match practice otherwise he wont be ready should Button, as is happening , suffer a dip in form.

Gonna go out on a whim and say Betts' injury was predictable in terms of being overlooked/ ignored in pre season where he was left out of tours and squads in favour of youth team players. He was linked to other teams  and a contract disputes too I think , but leaving him out left him totally unprepared and not much was said of it, because unprepared can probably sum up all of pre season to be fair.

[fulhamben]

Not a button fan, but what he lacks in ability, he makes up for in luck. All season he has been making poor saves where the ball drops back into the middle of the box, and until last night, the strikers have fluffed the rebound. So has his luck run out, or was it just a blip last night. Either way, he let's in more than Betts does

[Fulham Joe]

For what it's worth, I've always thought Button is a liability.
How he keeps getting picked is beyond me.

[sunburywhite]

At fault for the first one, should never have spilled it
At fault for the second one, beaten through his legs, should not be beaten from a tight angle at the near post
At fault for the third on(unless it took a deflection) totally flat footed
At fault for the fourth one, should have seen the Sheffield player break away on his own and should have come out to put pressure on him
Amost at fault for the corner where Cairney cleared off the line. He then flapoped around like a goldfish out of water
Apart from that I thought he had a good game

[simplyfulham]

Button is sloppy. He's always got at least 1 game changing mistake in him per game. It's the same with Ream as well.