https://x.com/Zonal_Marking/status/2090703857810649531?s=20
Yep, he's quite literally costing us goals, points and £130k a week been saying it for 2 years now.
Saying that he has performed well in friendlies in the main, but I do wish we'd prioritised a new keeper- they win you points single-handedly.
I think he's serviceable for one more season but needs replacing with a top quality keeper next summer at the latest.
Quote from: Neutral Zone Ultra on August 21, 2026, 11:53:45 AMI think he's serviceable for one more season but needs replacing with a top quality keeper next summer at the latest.
even next year will be able to sell him on as teams will want him.
Quote from: hovewhite on August 21, 2026, 11:57:46 AMQuote from: Neutral Zone Ultra on August 21, 2026, 11:53:45 AMI think he's serviceable for one more season but needs replacing with a top quality keeper next summer at the latest.
even next year will be able to sell him on as teams will want him.
Not on his wages they won't.
I agree his form has dropped off and he doesn't command his area well enough. He has credit for his ever present attendance record though going back a very long time. The bigger concern for me right now is that this record can't go on for much longer. I think his drop in form isnt helped by having no challenge on his position. He will inevitably get injured or have a flu or something. Putting Lecompte in goal for a PL game scares the hell out of me. That's why we desperately need to upgrade a new back up keeper who can compete.
Quote from: Jules on August 21, 2026, 12:10:06 PMI agree his form has dropped off and he doesn't command his area well enough. He has credit for his ever present attendance record though going back a very long time. The bigger concern for me right now is that this record can't go on for much longer. I think his drop in form isnt helped by having no challenge on his position. He will inevitably get injured or have a flu or something. Putting Lecompte in goal for a PL game scares the hell out of me. That's why we desperately need to upgrade a new back up keeper who can compete.
We don't want a back up keeper in my opinion we need a replacement.
Quote from: Twig on August 21, 2026, 12:15:50 PMQuote from: Jules on August 21, 2026, 12:10:06 PMI agree his form has dropped off and he doesn't command his area well enough. He has credit for his ever present attendance record though going back a very long time. The bigger concern for me right now is that this record can't go on for much longer. I think his drop in form isnt helped by having no challenge on his position. He will inevitably get injured or have a flu or something. Putting Lecompte in goal for a PL game scares the hell out of me. That's why we desperately need to upgrade a new back up keeper who can compete.
We don't want a back up keeper in my opinion we need a replacement.
Yeah agreed I think we need to upgrade, especially given he's the highest earner at the club.
Quote from: Twig on August 21, 2026, 12:15:50 PMQuote from: Jules on August 21, 2026, 12:10:06 PMI agree his form has dropped off and he doesn't command his area well enough. He has credit for his ever present attendance record though going back a very long time. The bigger concern for me right now is that this record can't go on for much longer. I think his drop in form isnt helped by having no challenge on his position. He will inevitably get injured or have a flu or something. Putting Lecompte in goal for a PL game scares the hell out of me. That's why we desperately need to upgrade a new back up keeper who can compete.
We don't want a back up keeper in my opinion we need a replacement.
There is talk Arbeloa wants a new GK and we would target a young, top prospect who is good with his feet, but we would bed him in for a year before making him the starter next year.
Have always thought very decent keeper not top draw but just below. My concern the last couple of years has been no stiff competition for his place and a slight complacency has led to a few more mistakes creeping into his game. Should never sign keepers to be a No2 should always look to sign a goalie who will challenge for No1 spot.
Is Malcom Webster available? He is the only goalkeeper I remember to get more stick than Leno.
Quote from: The Old Count on August 21, 2026, 02:34:36 PMIs Malcom Webster available? He is the only goalkeeper I remember to get more stick than Leno.
Clearly you don't remember Gabor Kiraly, David Button or even Marcus Bettinelli at points. Leno has been a good goalkeeper for us but he's getting worse and we need to upgrade.
Quote from: Neutral Zone Ultra on August 21, 2026, 02:37:51 PMQuote from: The Old Count on August 21, 2026, 02:34:36 PMIs Malcom Webster available? He is the only goalkeeper I remember to get more stick than Leno.
Clearly you don't remember Gabor Kiraly, David Button or even Marcus Bettinelli at points. Leno has been a good goalkeeper for us but he's getting worse and we need to upgrade.
They were dire. But they still didn't get the stick Webster used to get.
Quote from: The Old Count on August 21, 2026, 02:43:05 PMQuote from: Neutral Zone Ultra on August 21, 2026, 02:37:51 PMQuote from: The Old Count on August 21, 2026, 02:34:36 PMIs Malcom Webster available? He is the only goalkeeper I remember to get more stick than Leno.
Clearly you don't remember Gabor Kiraly, David Button or even Marcus Bettinelli at points. Leno has been a good goalkeeper for us but he's getting worse and we need to upgrade.
They were dire. But they still didn't get the stick Webster used to get.
I'm sure he did but my point is I think Leno has had his fair share of both praise and criticism since being at the club, I don't think he's been scapegoated particularly.
Quote from: btffc on August 21, 2026, 12:31:11 PMQuote from: Twig on August 21, 2026, 12:15:50 PMQuote from: Jules on August 21, 2026, 12:10:06 PMI agree his form has dropped off and he doesn't command his area well enough. He has credit for his ever present attendance record though going back a very long time. The bigger concern for me right now is that this record can't go on for much longer. I think his drop in form isnt helped by having no challenge on his position. He will inevitably get injured or have a flu or something. Putting Lecompte in goal for a PL game scares the hell out of me. That's why we desperately need to upgrade a new back up keeper who can compete.
We don't want a back up keeper in my opinion we need a replacement.
There is talk Arbeloa wants a new GK and we would target a young, top prospect who is good with his feet, but we would bed him in for a year before making him the starter next year.
I could understand that approach and as a bonus it might bring the best out of Leno for this season.
Quote from: The Old Count on August 21, 2026, 02:34:36 PMmore stick than Leno.
By stick do you mean people talking on a forum about his stats compared to other prem league goalies?
If so, that's not stick at all. Schwarzer, Rodak, Bettinelli, Rico, Button, Stekelenburg and Warner all got proper stick off of people, genuinely think you've got this all wrong.
Quote from: Neutral Zone Ultra on August 21, 2026, 02:48:12 PMQuote from: The Old Count on August 21, 2026, 02:43:05 PMQuote from: Neutral Zone Ultra on August 21, 2026, 02:37:51 PMQuote from: The Old Count on August 21, 2026, 02:34:36 PMIs Malcom Webster available? He is the only goalkeeper I remember to get more stick than Leno.
Clearly you don't remember Gabor Kiraly, David Button or even Marcus Bettinelli at points. Leno has been a good goalkeeper for us but he's getting worse and we need to upgrade.
They were dire. But they still didn't get the stick Webster used to get.
I'm sure he did but my point is I think Leno has had his fair share of both praise and criticism since being at the club, I don't think he's been scapegoated particularly.
I completely agree. I was very positive about Leno after he arrived and for his first couple of seasons even if there was some decline during that second season. However last year it was becoming painfully obvious that he was on the decline and only since then have I been critical.
Quote from: Jim© on August 21, 2026, 11:41:00 AMYep, he's quite literally costing us goals, points and £130k a week been saying it for 2 years now. Saying that he has performed well in friendlies in the main, but I do wish we'd prioritised a new keeper- they win you points single-handedly.
Yep, I've been on about Leno these past two seasons as well. I think he has cost us points and possible Euro play. Been very unhappy with his recent play. Apparently he's locked in again this new season as our starter. All we can hope for is that he can up his game to a higher standard.
Quote from: Neutral Zone Ultra on August 21, 2026, 02:48:12 PMQuote from: The Old Count on August 21, 2026, 02:43:05 PMQuote from: Neutral Zone Ultra on August 21, 2026, 02:37:51 PMQuote from: The Old Count on August 21, 2026, 02:34:36 PMIs Malcom Webster available? He is the only goalkeeper I remember to get more stick than Leno.
Clearly you don't remember Gabor Kiraly, David Button or even Marcus Bettinelli at points. Leno has been a good goalkeeper for us but he's getting worse and we need to upgrade.
They were dire. But they still didn't get the stick Webster used to get.
I'm sure he did but my point is I think Leno has had his fair share of both praise and criticism since being at the club, I don't think he's been scapegoated particularly.
I actually agree. The Webster comment was an attempt at a light-hearted reminder of a goalkeeper who got a lot of stick from the terraces. Sometimes justifiably. Leno has had very little.
Quote from: Jim© on August 21, 2026, 02:59:54 PMQuote from: The Old Count on August 21, 2026, 02:34:36 PMmore stick than Leno.
By stick do you mean people talking on a forum about his stats compared to other prem league goalies?
If so, that's not stick at all. Schwarzer, Rodak, Bettinelli, Rico, Button, Stekelenburg and Warner all got proper stick off of people, genuinely think you've got this all wrong.
See my reply to NZU.
Quote from: The Old Count on August 21, 2026, 03:23:12 PMQuote from: Neutral Zone Ultra on August 21, 2026, 02:48:12 PMQuote from: The Old Count on August 21, 2026, 02:43:05 PMQuote from: Neutral Zone Ultra on August 21, 2026, 02:37:51 PMQuote from: The Old Count on August 21, 2026, 02:34:36 PMIs Malcom Webster available? He is the only goalkeeper I remember to get more stick than Leno.
Clearly you don't remember Gabor Kiraly, David Button or even Marcus Bettinelli at points. Leno has been a good goalkeeper for us but he's getting worse and we need to upgrade.
They were dire. But they still didn't get the stick Webster used to get.
I'm sure he did but my point is I think Leno has had his fair share of both praise and criticism since being at the club, I don't think he's been scapegoated particularly.
I actually agree. The Webster comment was an attempt at a light-hearted reminder of a goalkeeper who got a lot of stick from the terraces. Sometimes justifiably. Leno has had very little.
Fair dos, guess it's the life of a goalkeeper - when they make mistakes they're hard to miss, which means they're easily singled out.
If the keeper fails, doesn't that mean the players in front of him have failed ?
Quote from: alfie on August 21, 2026, 03:36:29 PMIf the keeper fails, doesn't that mean the players in front of him have failed ?
Not necessarily. The stats above actually control for the quality of chances faced by a GK, so a GK could theoretically be playing with a dreadful team in front of him and still rank favorably. One example of this is Burnley in 23-24. Finished 19th and allowed the 3rd most goals in the league but their GK ranked 9th. And as it pertains to Fulham, all the relevant stats show our defense in front of the GK has improved considerably since our 1st season back in the PL but unfortunately Leno has declined.
He's been a brilliant keeper IMO
won us plenty of points
No idea where this hate is coming from
A true professional
Quote from: perry geyton on August 21, 2026, 03:56:24 PMHe's a brilliant keeper IMO
won us plenty of points
No idea where this hate is coming from
Shocking post
Nope, disagree. There's no 'hate' here, just fair commentary based on observed (lack of) performance. Simples.
With one of the other keepers mentioned we would likely have been in danger of going down.
I was delighted we signed Bernd and if this is his to be his last season with us I hope it is a good 'un.
Quote from: perry geyton on August 21, 2026, 03:56:24 PMHe's been a brilliant keeper IMO
won us plenty of points
No idea where this hate is coming from
A true professional
Sorry, what hate?
I think there is a realtive of his on this board so apologies but Ken Hewkins was not a great keeper
Quote from: btffc on August 21, 2026, 12:31:11 PMQuote from: Twig on August 21, 2026, 12:15:50 PMQuote from: Jules on August 21, 2026, 12:10:06 PMI agree his form has dropped off and he doesn't command his area well enough. He has credit for his ever present attendance record though going back a very long time. The bigger concern for me right now is that this record can't go on for much longer. I think his drop in form isnt helped by having no challenge on his position. He will inevitably get injured or have a flu or something. Putting Lecompte in goal for a PL game scares the hell out of me. That's why we desperately need to upgrade a new back up keeper who can compete.
We don't want a back up keeper in my opinion we need a replacement.
There is talk Arbeloa wants a new GK and we would target a young, top prospect who is good with his feet, but we would bed him in for a year before making him the starter next year.
This is exactly what I had in mind with my earlier comments.
Lies, damned lies, and statistics" is a phrase describing the persuasive power of statistics to bolster weak arguments ......... attributed to Mark Twain. Firstly I am not accusing any one of having weak arguments or lying...... and if you love your stats then you crack on if it makes you happy because that is what life is about ::thumb:: Everything that has been posted previously has valid points however it is the statistics angle that I do not agree with.
As an ex keeper (FA Trained for the Army back in the day) I can say that Leno has been great for us and yes, may have had an error or two ....... but what keeper doesn't? do Donnarumma, Raya, Becker et al all not mistakes? Maybe not to the volume that Leno may or may not has conceded however equally before it gets to Leno do not forget that the ball has to bypass 10 other player's so are they not equally culpable?
I watched every game last season and can honestly say that Bernd kept us in quite a few with some of his saves, and I do not recall who we were playing (we must have been down to 10 men at the time), however we were under the cosh for the last 10 - 15 minutes and he was constantly off his line, catching / punching the ball away.... which is his job.
Has anyone done stats on the most long range goals scored v any team? I allude to the fact as previously mentioned about getting through the rest of the team to get into position to take that shot. Add in the fact that in these days, the ball is of a different construction, turns and flows away from a hand, can be deflected, have a bobble etc! In pre season against Malaga he made a few saves however (watch the game if not done so) the one that stood out was the header from Malaga and then deflected off another player and Leno saved it....... that showed to me that he still has his reflexes at least and can still cut it.
Physically I am not at every game, and even then it may not be possible to hear, however who is to say the defender states that it his ball and then messes up and misses a clearance and Leno get's blamed?
Yes, I concede that he is not as great as when he first joined ...... equally he is still decent enough for us for a year or two IMHO.
COYW ::scarf:: ::wine::
Quote from: Twig on August 21, 2026, 04:52:15 PMQuote from: perry geyton on August 21, 2026, 03:56:24 PMHe's been a brilliant keeper IMO
won us plenty of points
No idea where this hate is coming from
A true professional
Sorry, what hate?
ep, he's quite literally costing us goals, points and £130k a week been saying it for 2 years now.
Saying that he has performed well in friendlies in the main, but I do wish we'd prioritised a new keeper- they win you points single-handedly.
Looks relatively hateful to me to a man given everything IMO, classless
I have a lot of respect for Leno
Quote from: perry geyton on August 21, 2026, 09:44:50 PMQuote from: Twig on August 21, 2026, 04:52:15 PMQuote from: perry geyton on August 21, 2026, 03:56:24 PMHe's been a brilliant keeper IMO
won us plenty of points
No idea where this hate is coming from
A true professional
Sorry, what hate?
ep, he's quite literally costing us goals, points and £130k a week been saying it for 2 years now.
Saying that he has performed well in friendlies in the main, but I do wish we'd prioritised a new keeper- they win you points single-handedly.
Looks relatively hateful to me to a man given everything IMO, classless
I have a lot of respect for Leno
I'm generally not a fan of bringing up a player's salary when criticizing them, but it's indisputable that over the past couple seasons Leno has cost us goals and points. That's not hate, just the truth.
Quote from: perry geyton on August 21, 2026, 03:56:24 PMHe's been a brilliant keeper IMO
won us plenty of points
No idea where this hate is coming from
A true professional
Obviously it's not hate. I've only seen constructive criticism.
Quote from: AshfordFFC on August 21, 2026, 09:23:47 PMLies, damned lies, and statistics" is a phrase describing the persuasive power of statistics to bolster weak arguments ......... attributed to Mark Twain. Firstly I am not accusing any one of having weak arguments or lying...... and if you love your stats then you crack on if it makes you happy because that is what life is about ::thumb:: Everything that has been posted previously has valid points however it is the statistics angle that I do not agree with.
As an ex keeper (FA Trained for the Army back in the day) I can say that Leno has been great for us and yes, may have had an error or two ....... but what keeper doesn't? do Donnarumma, Raya, Becker et al all not mistakes? Maybe not to the volume that Leno may or may not has conceded however equally before it gets to Leno do not forget that the ball has to bypass 10 other player's so are they not equally culpable?
I watched every game last season and can honestly say that Bernd kept us in quite a few with some of his saves, and I do not recall who we were playing (we must have been down to 10 men at the time), however we were under the cosh for the last 10 - 15 minutes and he was constantly off his line, catching / punching the ball away.... which is his job.
Has anyone done stats on the most long range goals scored v any team? I allude to the fact as previously mentioned about getting through the rest of the team to get into position to take that shot. Add in the fact that in these days, the ball is of a different construction, turns and flows away from a hand, can be deflected, have a bobble etc! In pre season against Malaga he made a few saves however (watch the game if not done so) the one that stood out was the header from Malaga and then deflected off another player and Leno saved it....... that showed to me that he still has his reflexes at least and can still cut it.
Physically I am not at every game, and even then it may not be possible to hear, however who is to say the defender states that it his ball and then messes up and misses a clearance and Leno get's blamed?
Yes, I concede that he is not as great as when he first joined ...... equally he is still decent enough for us for a year or two IMHO.
COYW ::scarf:: ::wine::
Sorry but 2 seasons back we conceded a third of all the goals from outside the area, that's not bad luck that's poor shot stopping unless they were all top corner which they weren't. His save percentages, are too low. They're beneath where the rest of the team is performing.
Last season there was a save at Brentford away where he genuinely shouldn't have saved it but did, fair play we won a point. But the fact I can point to one situation says it all...
I have little to no time for all the carping about Leno.
There are many other problems that need to be corrected before goalkeeping.
Those problems have led directly to the criticism of Leno.
Has he bollocked things up occasionally? Who hasn't?
Just as a recent reminder - we wouldn't have won the match against Stuttgart without some very top-drawer saves on his part.
Quote from: cwindsor on August 22, 2026, 02:39:26 AMThere are many other problems that need to be corrected before goalkeeping.
Those problems have led directly to the criticism of Leno.
Nonsense. All the relevant stats (like those in the tweet that started this thread) show that he's been the weak link in Fulham's defense the past two seasons. He's the one who has let down those playing in front of him.
Quote from: Chi_FFC on August 22, 2026, 03:17:31 AMQuote from: cwindsor on August 22, 2026, 02:39:26 AMThere are many other problems that need to be corrected before goalkeeping.
Those problems have led directly to the criticism of Leno.
Nonsense. All the relevant stats (like those in the tweet that started this thread) show that he's been the weak link in Fulham's defence the past two seasons. He's the one who has let down those playing in front of him.
Nonsense, to use your word.
The stats that started this thread show where he ranks amongst other Premier League goalkeepers. Nothing more.
To actually show that he's been the weak link in Fulham's defence the past two seasons, would require an entirely different analysis, which would include Fulham's total defensive performance vis-a-vis the other teams in the Premier League.
Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
I have noticed that he gets very nervous with the ball at his feet.
Never seems to look comfortable.
To be fair he makes up with that with other strengths with his shot stopping.
Let's see how he gets on this season, but I do understand the cause for concern.
It can also be said a goalkeeper is only as good as his defence, and vice versa.
Goalkeeping is a specialist position and it is important that the club gets that right.
I still think there's plenty left in Bernd Leno. He's still a very good shot-stopper and has shown it in pre-season as well as times last year (Brentford away).
Low xG efforts finding their way in doesn't help this data, he's not the biggest keeper so always feels a bit susceptible to digs from distance. The volume of saves made and save % has gone down, like the graph suggests, year of year.
I don't quite feel like he's a liability, he's still capable of being a point winning keeper but he's certainly past his best. Leno is another where Fulham are pretty tied to the contract (expires next year with a club option). Depending on the make up of that option (is it games played tied etc), but ideally we go our separate ways next summer and continue to move forward with a younger, Arbeloa suited goalkeeper.
Bernd has been a great servant though, not sure he's quite Schwarzer or van der Sar but he's up there and those are some big shoes (gloves?) to fill.
Quote from: Chi_FFC on August 21, 2026, 10:03:59 PMQuote from: perry geyton on August 21, 2026, 09:44:50 PMQuote from: Twig on August 21, 2026, 04:52:15 PMQuote from: perry geyton on August 21, 2026, 03:56:24 PMHe's been a brilliant keeper IMO
won us plenty of points
No idea where this hate is coming from
A true professional
Sorry, what hate?
ep, he's quite literally costing us goals, points and £130k a week been saying it for 2 years now.
Saying that he has performed well in friendlies in the main, but I do wish we'd prioritised a new keeper- they win you points single-handedly.
Looks relatively hateful to me to a man given everything IMO, classless
I have a lot of respect for Leno
I'm generally not a fan of bringing up a player's salary when criticizing them, but it's indisputable that over the past couple seasons Leno has cost us goals and points. That's not hate, just the truth.
Do people consider when strikers or indeed any player has a shot and misses could be costing us points, or is it solely the keeper, how about when a penalty is missed, costing us points ?.
So, Andersen has, at least temporarily, passed the scapegoat baton to Leno. ::scarf::
I've watched football long enough to know that all keepers make mistakes. Some go through patches and
Drop balls etc etc. Leno has never made those kind of mistakes but may be he doesn't come for balls. Could that be managers instructions?
I don't think there has been an obvious deterioration so we should get behind the whole team and try to give our young team confidence. cOYW
Quote from: alfie on August 22, 2026, 09:44:01 AMQuote from: Chi_FFC on August 21, 2026, 10:03:59 PMQuote from: perry geyton on August 21, 2026, 09:44:50 PMQuote from: Twig on August 21, 2026, 04:52:15 PMQuote from: perry geyton on August 21, 2026, 03:56:24 PMHe's been a brilliant keeper IMO
won us plenty of points
No idea where this hate is coming from
A true professional
Sorry, what hate?
ep, he's quite literally costing us goals, points and £130k a week been saying it for 2 years now.
Saying that he has performed well in friendlies in the main, but I do wish we'd prioritised a new keeper- they win you points single-handedly.
Looks relatively hateful to me to a man given everything IMO, classless
I have a lot of respect for Leno
I'm generally not a fan of bringing up a player's salary when criticizing them, but it's indisputable that over the past couple seasons Leno has cost us goals and points. That's not hate, just the truth.
Do people consider when strikers or indeed any player has a shot and misses could be costing us points, or is it solely the keeper, how about when a penalty is missed, costing us points ?.
I can see both sides of the debate, but Alfie makes a good point regarding a goalkeeper making a mistake and costing a goal and unfortunately it is magnified.
However as he has said when a striker misses a fairly easy chance, it can be easily forgotten, or at least put in to the back of your mind.
Having said that, I feel this is an important season for Leno and it could go either way.
I feel he would feel more comfortable if the players did not keep passing the ball back to him unnecessarily as unlike many other keepers he does not look reassuring with the ball at his feet, and under pressure the ball far too often ends up going for a throw on to the opposition.
Quote from: Southcoastffc on August 22, 2026, 09:47:09 AMSo, Andersen has, at least temporarily, passed the scapegoat baton to Leno. ::scarf::
Where did this escaped goat appear from ?
Quote from: Andy S on August 22, 2026, 10:01:09 AMI've watched football long enough to know that all keepers make mistakes. Some go through patches and
Drop balls etc etc. Leno has never made those kind of mistakes but may be he doesn't come for balls. Could that be managers instructions?
I don't think there has been an obvious deterioration so we should get behind the whole team and try to give our young team confidence. cOYW
His stats show a very clear decline. I think it's a bit like wear on the brakes of your car. It happens gradually and you tend not to notice until you replace them.
Quote from: Twig on August 22, 2026, 10:15:19 AMQuote from: Andy S on August 22, 2026, 10:01:09 AMI've watched football long enough to know that all keepers make mistakes. Some go through patches and
Drop balls etc etc. Leno has never made those kind of mistakes but may be he doesn't come for balls. Could that be managers instructions?
I don't think there has been an obvious deterioration so we should get behind the whole team and try to give our young team confidence. cOYW
His stats show a very clear decline. I think it's a bit like wear on the brakes of your car. It happens gradually and you tend not to notice until you replace them.
Stats do not tell the whole story though, if a defender makes a howler of an error, the ball goes in, then that stat shows a goal against the keeper, what about a very clear decline in team performance, outfield players not doing their jobs has a bearing on stats.
Quote from: alfie on August 22, 2026, 10:27:23 AMQuote from: Twig on August 22, 2026, 10:15:19 AMQuote from: Andy S on August 22, 2026, 10:01:09 AMI've watched football long enough to know that all keepers make mistakes. Some go through patches and
Drop balls etc etc. Leno has never made those kind of mistakes but may be he doesn't come for balls. Could that be managers instructions?
I don't think there has been an obvious deterioration so we should get behind the whole team and try to give our young team confidence. cOYW
His stats show a very clear decline. I think it's a bit like wear on the brakes of your car. It happens gradually and you tend not to notice until you replace them.
Stats do not tell the whole story though, if a defender makes a howler of an error, the ball goes in, then that stat shows a goal against the keeper, what about a very clear decline in team performance, outfield players not doing their jobs has a bearing on stats.
At the end of the day people can show stats to justify whatever point they are trying to prove. For me stop the shots and crosses and we will concede less goals.
Statistics say that 1 out of 3 people in a relationship are unfaithful.
I am not a fan of statistics for the following valid reasons.
1. Cherry-picking data.
2. Using percentages without context.
3. Misleading averages.
4. Small or biased samples.
5. Confusing correlation with causation.
Quote from: cwindsor on August 22, 2026, 05:36:51 AMNonsense, to use your word.
The stats that started this thread show where he ranks amongst other Premier League goalkeepers. Nothing more.
To actually show that he's been the weak link in Fulham's defence the past two seasons, would require an entirely different analysis, which would include Fulham's total defensive performance vis-a-vis the other teams in the Premier League.
Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
You clearly don't understand how the stats being discussed here work. As I've mentioned elsewhere in this thread, these stats actually control for the quality of defense in front of the GK and (to simplify things a bit) tell us how a GK has performed (at least from a shot stopping perspective) based on the quality of shots he has faced. And what they tell us about Leno and Fulham is that the defense in front of him has been pretty darn good the past few seasons. Top half of the PL quality. Leno on the other hand has been very poor (at least from a shot stopping perspective).
To wit, in 24-25 Fulham's defense in front of the GK was 9th in shots on target allowed and 6th in xGA allowed in the PL. Last season it was T4 in shots on target allowed and 10th in xGA. However from a GK perspective we've been as a team (and Bernd is the only GK who has played a PL minute for us over the past two seasons) 17th in advanced shot stopping. Simply put, he's been the weak link in our defense the past two seasons.
Quote from: alfie on August 22, 2026, 09:44:01 AMDo people consider when strikers or indeed any player has a shot and misses could be costing us points, or is it solely the keeper, how about when a penalty is missed, costing us points ?.
Can't speak for others but I absolutely analyze our performance all over the pitch to see where our strengths and weaknesses lie. And last season two areas of the pitch stand out as weaknesses...striker and GK. Our two strikers had a combined non penalty XG of close to 12 yet only managed a combined 6 npg. That's very poor. However I didn't see a reason to discuss it here given this is a thread about Leno's own poor performance.
As we have a new manager we may have a new goal keeper coach. None of us know what instructions Silva gave Leno in his style of play. Maybe Alvaro will have a different plan for our goal keeper and Leno will be coached and play differently.
I must be honest and say I've never played football so not sure if keepers just play one way all their career, or change for good or bad.
Quote from: Chi_FFC on August 22, 2026, 01:51:50 PMQuote from: cwindsor on August 22, 2026, 05:36:51 AMNonsense, to use your word.
The stats that started this thread show where he ranks amongst other Premier League goalkeepers. Nothing more.
To actually show that he's been the weak link in Fulham's defence the past two seasons, would require an entirely different analysis, which would include Fulham's total defensive performance vis-a-vis the other teams in the Premier League.
Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
You clearly don't understand how the stats being discussed here work. As I've mentioned elsewhere in this thread, these stats actually control for the quality of defense in front of the GK and (to simplify things a bit) tell us how a GK has performed (at least from a shot stopping perspective) based on the quality of shots he has faced. And what they tell us about Leno and Fulham is that the defense in front of him has been pretty darn good the past few seasons. Top half of the PL quality. Leno on the other hand has been very poor (at least from a shot stopping perspective).
To wit, in 24-25 Fulham's defense in front of the GK was 9th in shots on target allowed and 6th in xGA allowed in the PL. Last season it was T4 in shots on target allowed and 10th in xGA. However from a GK perspective we've been as a team (and Bernd is the only GK who has played a PL minute for us over the past two seasons) 17th in advanced shot stopping. Simply put, he's been the weak link in our defense the past two seasons.
Quote from: alfie on August 22, 2026, 09:44:01 AMDo people consider when strikers or indeed any player has a shot and misses could be costing us points, or is it solely the keeper, how about when a penalty is missed, costing us points ?.
Can't speak for others but I absolutely analyze our performance all over the pitch to see where we're our strengths and weaknesses lie. And last season two areas of the pitch stand out as weaknesses...striker and GK. Our two strikers had a combined non penalty XG of close to 12 yet only managed a combined 6 npg. That's very poor. However I didn't see a reason to discuss it here given this is a thread about Leno's own poor performance.
Fair enough if you don't think it's relevant.
Quote from: Chi_FFC on August 22, 2026, 01:51:50 PMQuote from: cwindsor on August 22, 2026, 05:36:51 AMNonsense, to use your word.
The stats that started this thread show where he ranks amongst other Premier League goalkeepers. Nothing more.
To actually show that he's been the weak link in Fulham's defence the past two seasons, would require an entirely different analysis, which would include Fulham's total defensive performance vis-a-vis the other teams in the Premier League.
Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
You clearly don't understand how the stats being discussed here work. As I've mentioned elsewhere in this thread, these stats actually control for the quality of defense in front of the GK and (to simplify things a bit) tell us how a GK has performed (at least from a shot stopping perspective) based on the quality of shots he has faced. And what they tell us about Leno and Fulham is that the defense in front of him has been pretty darn good the past few seasons. Top half of the PL quality. Leno on the other hand has been very poor (at least from a shot stopping perspective).
To wit, in 24-25 Fulham's defense in front of the GK was 9th in shots on target allowed and 6th in xGA allowed in the PL. Last season it was T4 in shots on target allowed and 10th in xGA. However from a GK perspective we've been as a team (and Bernd is the only GK who has played a PL minute for us over the past two seasons) 17th in advanced shot stopping. Simply put, he's been the weak link in our defense the past two seasons.
Quote from: alfie on August 22, 2026, 09:44:01 AMDo people consider when strikers or indeed any player has a shot and misses could be costing us points, or is it solely the keeper, how about when a penalty is missed, costing us points ?.
Can't speak for others but I absolutely analyze our performance all over the pitch to see where we're our strengths and weaknesses lie. And last season two areas of the pitch stand out as weaknesses...striker and GK. Our two strikers had a combined non penalty XG of close to 12 yet only managed a combined 6 npg. That's very poor. However I didn't see a reason to discuss it here given this is a thread about Leno's own poor performance.
This.
Quote from: Chi_FFC on August 22, 2026, 01:51:50 PMYou clearly don't understand how the stats being discussed here work.
I understand them perfectly well. Apologies, it's just that I don't blindly believe them.
Quote from: cwindsor on August 22, 2026, 08:18:40 PMQuote from: Chi_FFC on August 22, 2026, 01:51:50 PMYou clearly don't understand how the stats being discussed here work.
I understand them perfectly well. Apologies, it's just that I don't blindly believe them.
You don't believe the stats? That is to say you think they are untrue?
I think both views have been pretty clearly expressed. Not sure there is a a need to needle each other about the understanding of statistics haha
My view is that Leno had a down year last year but that it's well within his capabilities to rebound.
Leno will be player of the sesson. Top pro lucky to have him.
3 Pages of people moaning about Bernd Leno, pound for pound one of the best signings our club has ever made,
And certainly the least of our problems, I'm sure some of you would love to see the ball go through his legs on Monday just so you can tell us all "told you so"
If any of you contributed to this thread in a negative way, please do yourself a favour and watch the Brentford v Spurs game, all I'll say is thank God we've got Leno and not Kinsky, now that's a keeper that deserves 3 pages on a forum.
Quote from: C Block on August 22, 2026, 09:37:36 PM3 Pages of people moaning about Bernd Leno, pound for pound one of the best signings our club has ever made,
And certainly the least of our problems, I'm sure some of you would love to see the ball go through his legs on Monday just so you can tell us all "told you so"
If any of you contributed to this thread in a negative way, please do yourself a favour and watch the Brentford v Spurs game, all I'll say is thank God we've got Leno and not Kinsky, now that's a keeper that deserves 3 pages on a forum.
What are you on about? Aren't we allowed to discuss a player that is letting us down in quite a few of our opinions (and backed up by stats)?
I'd be gutted if that happens on Monday and hope he delivers and carries on his decent pre season form. I don't want to see him being the 18th best keeper in terms of saves made again.
Quote from: Twig on August 22, 2026, 08:20:20 PMQuote from: cwindsor on August 22, 2026, 08:18:40 PMQuote from: Chi_FFC on August 22, 2026, 01:51:50 PMYou clearly don't understand how the stats being discussed here work.
I understand them perfectly well. Apologies, it's just that I don't blindly believe them.
You don't believe the stats? That is to say you think they are untrue?
Heresy, I know. It's 1984 all over again. Cheers!
Quote from: Jim© on August 22, 2026, 09:41:47 PMQuote from: C Block on August 22, 2026, 09:37:36 PM3 Pages of people moaning about Bernd Leno, pound for pound one of the best signings our club has ever made,
And certainly the least of our problems, I'm sure some of you would love to see the ball go through his legs on Monday just so you can tell us all "told you so"
If any of you contributed to this thread in a negative way, please do yourself a favour and watch the Brentford v Spurs game, all I'll say is thank God we've got Leno and not Kinsky, now that's a keeper that deserves 3 pages on a forum.
What are you on about? Aren't we allowed to discuss a player that is letting us down in quite a few of our opinions (and backed up by stats)?
I'd be gutted if that happens on Monday and hope he delivers and carries on his decent pre season form. I don't want to see him being the 18th best keeper in terms of saves made again.
How many games ago was it that he made the save of the season at Brentford to deny them a place in Europe, I'd rather remember that than look at a page of stats,
Would you rather have Kinsky ?
Quote from: C Block on August 23, 2026, 12:48:48 AMQuote from: Jim© on August 22, 2026, 09:41:47 PMQuote from: C Block on August 22, 2026, 09:37:36 PM3 Pages of people moaning about Bernd Leno, pound for pound one of the best signings our club has ever made,
And certainly the least of our problems, I'm sure some of you would love to see the ball go through his legs on Monday just so you can tell us all "told you so"
If any of you contributed to this thread in a negative way, please do yourself a favour and watch the Brentford v Spurs game, all I'll say is thank God we've got Leno and not Kinsky, now that's a keeper that deserves 3 pages on a forum.
What are you on about? Aren't we allowed to discuss a player that is letting us down in quite a few of our opinions (and backed up by stats)?
I'd be gutted if that happens on Monday and hope he delivers and carries on his decent pre season form. I don't want to see him being the 18th best keeper in terms of saves made again.
How many games ago was it that he made the save of the season at Brentford to deny them a place in Europe, I'd rather remember that than look at a page of stats,
Would you rather have Kinsky ?
Kinsky has nothing to do with it, I'm glad he's not our keeper. I mentioned his save at Brentford, but there were many times he cost us last season and the one before. He's good but not good enough imo. Hope he proves me wrong.
Quote from: cwindsor on August 23, 2026, 12:43:37 AMQuote from: Twig on August 22, 2026, 08:20:20 PMQuote from: cwindsor on August 22, 2026, 08:18:40 PMQuote from: Chi_FFC on August 22, 2026, 01:51:50 PMYou clearly don't understand how the stats being discussed here work.
I understand them perfectly well. Apologies, it's just that I don't blindly believe them.
You don't believe the stats? That is to say you think they are untrue?
Heresy, I know. It's 1984 all over again. Cheers!
Perhaps I misunderstood you. The stats are just data so not to believe them literally means you think they have been constructed incorrectly (whether intentionally or through human error). That's what I found odd. If however you meant to say that you don't subscribe to the conclusions some of us are drawing from the facts then fair enough. I don't agree but you're fully entitled to that view.
Quote from: C Block on August 23, 2026, 12:48:48 AMQuote from: Jim© on August 22, 2026, 09:41:47 PMQuote from: C Block on August 22, 2026, 09:37:36 PM3 Pages of people moaning about Bernd Leno, pound for pound one of the best signings our club has ever made,
And certainly the least of our problems, I'm sure some of you would love to see the ball go through his legs on Monday just so you can tell us all "told you so"
If any of you contributed to this thread in a negative way, please do yourself a favour and watch the Brentford v Spurs game, all I'll say is thank God we've got Leno and not Kinsky, now that's a keeper that deserves 3 pages on a forum.
What are you on about? Aren't we allowed to discuss a player that is letting us down in quite a few of our opinions (and backed up by stats)?
I'd be gutted if that happens on Monday and hope he delivers and carries on his decent pre season form. I don't want to see him being the 18th best keeper in terms of saves made again.
How many games ago was it that he made the save of the season at Brentford to deny them a place in Europe, I'd rather remember that than look at a page of stats,
Would you rather have Kinsky ?
Sorry but one excellent save does nothing to change the trend in his overall performance, which is downwards. As to his being the least of our problems I vehemently disagree. He's ageing and whether you like it or not his stats are getting progressively worse.
I would like to see us bring in the future new number one. Whether that person spends some time as Leno's understudy or steps up straight away I don't mind, but I think we need to secure the future of such an important role.
And no, I most definitely do not want to see one go through his legs tomorrow. That was an infantile and completely uncalled for jibe. This sort of comment that seeks to denigrate other supporters opinions is just the sort of nonsense that drives away debate on this forum. In my opinion the mods should be coming down hard on this sort of unpleasantness.
Agree with the stats talk of this thread, it is undeniably true that Leno has declined.
It is also true we have to backup currently or what appears to be a transition plan.
Historically we have usually attracted a good GK, often punching above our weight.
But given being so close but some could argue so far from a Euro spot, it feels like this is a position in need of an upgrade to gain a handful of points that could be the diff
Will any of you moaners cut him any slack tomorrow night for the fact that he will be playing behind a patched up, substandard centre half pairing?
Imagine if he had Gabriel and Saliba playing in front of him, what a difference that would make to his "stats" that you all obsess over,
As things stand this morning our back 4 is weaker than last seasons, and to me that's unacceptable,
Maybe some of you should take a moment to think about that.
Quote from: C Block on August 23, 2026, 09:44:25 AMWill any of you moaners cut him any slack tomorrow night for the fact that he will be playing behind a patched up, substandard centre half pairing?
Imagine if he had Gabriel and Saliba playing in front of him, what a difference that would make to his "stats" that you all obsess over,
As things stand this morning our back 4 is weaker than last seasons, and to me that's unacceptable,
Maybe some of you should take a moment to think about that.
He did have that kind of standard at Arsenal......They still dropped and sold him
Agree though the back 4 is weaker than ever and it is unacceptable, however Many beilive Anderson is the answer and Diop was not as good
Quote from: C Block on August 23, 2026, 09:44:25 AMImagine if he had Gabriel and Saliba playing in front of him, what a difference that would make to his "stats" that you all obsess over
There's a reason some of us keep saying that folks don't understand the stats being discussed in this thread and it's because of comments just like this. Again, the advanced shot stopping stats control for the quality of defense in front of the GK. If Leno had Gabriel and Saliba in front of him last season he'd still have been among the worst shot stoppers in the league! I'll say it again, Leno's best season BY FAR in the advanced shot stopping stats was in 22-23. He was first or second in the league depending on which you looked at. And that season the defense in front of him was by far the worst we've had since being back up in the PL (in terms of xGA and shots on targets against, etc.).
Quote from: Chi_FFC on August 23, 2026, 01:32:02 PMQuote from: C Block on August 23, 2026, 09:44:25 AMImagine if he had Gabriel and Saliba playing in front of him, what a difference that would make to his "stats" that you all obsess over
There's a reason some of us keep saying that folks don't understand the stats being discussed in this thread and it's because of comments just like this. Again, the advanced shot stopping stats control for the quality of defense in front of the GK. If Leno had Gabriel and Saliba in front of him last season he'd still have been among the worst shot stoppers in the league! I'll say it again, Leno's best season BY FAR in the advanced shot stopping stats was in 22-23. He was first or second in the league depending on which you looked at. And that season the defense in front of him was by far the worst we've had since being back up in the PL (in terms of xGA and shots on targets against, etc.).
I don't know why but it seems there are folks on here who just don't want to understand. Almost some kind of flat earth mentality. All they do is call us moaners and repeat their failure to undetsand a simpe concept.
To be clear; I am absolutely not moaning, I do am not a Leno hater, in fact I have previously been very impressed by him. I simply pay attention to the stats (as well as the evidence of my eyes) which have convinced me that he is on the decline and that we should be planning to replace him. I fully respect that others may have a different opinion, I just don't get why they need to spout petty insults to defend their argument.
It's like banging your head against a brick wall on here at times,
I guess the same people now running Leno down are the same people that were constantly running Dan Burn and Andreas Pereira down and we know how that turned out.
Quote from: C Block on August 23, 2026, 04:07:49 PMIt's like banging your head against a brick wall on here at times,
I guess the same people now running Leno down are the same people that were constantly running Dan Burn and Andreas Pereira down and we know how that turned out.
Nobody is "running him down". We are simply pointing out that his stats have become unfavourable. You cannot argue that this is a fact. If you choose to take the view that the stats don't tell the story then fine, I totally respect that opinion. Quite why you can't show the good grace to respect the opposite view is quite beyond me.
Quote from: Twig on August 23, 2026, 05:53:42 PMQuote from: C Block on August 23, 2026, 04:07:49 PMIt's like banging your head against a brick wall on here at times,
I guess the same people now running Leno down are the same people that were constantly running Dan Burn and Andreas Pereira down and we know how that turned out.
Nobody is "running him down". We are simply pointing out that his stats have become unfavourable. You cannot argue that this is a fact. If you choose to take the view that the stats don't tell the story then fine, I totally respect that opinion. Quite why you can't show the good grace to respect the opposite view is quite beyond me.
This, honestly some people on this forum are so allergic to debate that it's beyond trying to do so. God forbid we don't infinitely defend men who are paid millions of pounds a year and never hold them to account at all.
Quote from: Twig on August 23, 2026, 03:08:17 PMQuote from: Chi_FFC on August 23, 2026, 01:32:02 PMQuote from: C Block on August 23, 2026, 09:44:25 AMImagine if he had Gabriel and Saliba playing in front of him, what a difference that would make to his "stats" that you all obsess over
There's a reason some of us keep saying that folks don't understand the stats being discussed in this thread and it's because of comments just like this. Again, the advanced shot stopping stats control for the quality of defense in front of the GK. If Leno had Gabriel and Saliba in front of him last season he'd still have been among the worst shot stoppers in the league! I'll say it again, Leno's best season BY FAR in the advanced shot stopping stats was in 22-23. He was first or second in the league depending on which you looked at. And that season the defense in front of him was by far the worst we've had since being back up in the PL (in terms of xGA and shots on targets against, etc.).
I don't know why but it seems there are folks on here who just don't want to understand. Almost some kind of flat earth mentality. All they do is call us moaners and repeat their failure to undetsand a simpe concept.
To be clear; I am absolutely not moaning, I do am not a Leno hater, in fact I have previously been very impressed by him. I simply pay attention to the stats (as well as the evidence of my eyes) which have convinced me that he is on the decline and that we should be planning to replace him. I fully respect that others may have a different opinion, I just don't get why they need to spout petty insults to defend their argument.
Once again I say that stats do not show the full story as to why or how the ball goes in, it just shows that the ball went past the keeper, e.g. a shot comes in the keeper has it fully covered but a defender sticks out a leg and deflects it away from the keeper who can do nothing about it, but the stats still show it went past the keeper. That is my only objection in overly relying on stats.
In saying that of course it is inevitable that all players will show a decline in performance as they get older, and we should be looking to improve.
Quote from: alfie on August 24, 2026, 01:55:03 PMQuote from: Twig on August 23, 2026, 03:08:17 PMQuote from: Chi_FFC on August 23, 2026, 01:32:02 PMQuote from: C Block on August 23, 2026, 09:44:25 AMImagine if he had Gabriel and Saliba playing in front of him, what a difference that would make to his "stats" that you all obsess over
There's a reason some of us keep saying that folks don't understand the stats being discussed in this thread and it's because of comments just like this. Again, the advanced shot stopping stats control for the quality of defense in front of the GK. If Leno had Gabriel and Saliba in front of him last season he'd still have been among the worst shot stoppers in the league! I'll say it again, Leno's best season BY FAR in the advanced shot stopping stats was in 22-23. He was first or second in the league depending on which you looked at. And that season the defense in front of him was by far the worst we've had since being back up in the PL (in terms of xGA and shots on targets against, etc.).
I don't know why but it seems there are folks on here who just don't want to understand. Almost some kind of flat earth mentality. All they do is call us moaners and repeat their failure to undetsand a simpe concept.
To be clear; I am absolutely not moaning, I do am not a Leno hater, in fact I have previously been very impressed by him. I simply pay attention to the stats (as well as the evidence of my eyes) which have convinced me that he is on the decline and that we should be planning to replace him. I fully respect that others may have a different opinion, I just don't get why they need to spout petty insults to defend their argument.
Once again I say that stats do not show the full story as to why or how the ball goes in, it just shows that the ball went past the keeper, e.g. a shot comes in the keeper has it fully covered but a defender sticks out a leg and deflects it away from the keeper who can do nothing about it, but the stats still show it went past the keeper. That is my only objection in overly relying on stats.
In saying that of course it is inevitable that all players will show a decline in performance as they get older, and we should be looking to improve.
Alfie, I'm sorry but the stats do most definitely not just show that the ball went past the keeper, absolutely not. Frankly that would be no better than goals conceded and would be utterly useless. The advanced stats take into account t several aspects including tje quality and nature of the defending in front of the keeper. So to answer your specific example, if the a defender (or any other player) were to deflect the ball away from the keeper then that would be explicitly reflected in the keeper's stats.
That said of course I agree with you that the eye test is also important, I guess I just fail to understand why several on here (all pro Leno) seem to be incapable or unwilling to understand how meaningful modern performance stats are.
Quote from: Twig on August 24, 2026, 04:10:49 PMQuote from: alfie on August 24, 2026, 01:55:03 PMQuote from: Twig on August 23, 2026, 03:08:17 PMQuote from: Chi_FFC on August 23, 2026, 01:32:02 PMQuote from: C Block on August 23, 2026, 09:44:25 AMImagine if he had Gabriel and Saliba playing in front of him, what a difference that would make to his "stats" that you all obsess over
There's a reason some of us keep saying that folks don't understand the stats being discussed in this thread and it's because of comments just like this. Again, the advanced shot stopping stats control for the quality of defense in front of the GK. If Leno had Gabriel and Saliba in front of him last season he'd still have been among the worst shot stoppers in the league! I'll say it again, Leno's best season BY FAR in the advanced shot stopping stats was in 22-23. He was first or second in the league depending on which you looked at. And that season the defense in front of him was by far the worst we've had since being back up in the PL (in terms of xGA and shots on targets against, etc.).
I don't know why but it seems there are folks on here who just don't want to understand. Almost some kind of flat earth mentality. All they do is call us moaners and repeat their failure to undetsand a simpe concept.
To be clear; I am absolutely not moaning, I do am not a Leno hater, in fact I have previously been very impressed by him. I simply pay attention to the stats (as well as the evidence of my eyes) which have convinced me that he is on the decline and that we should be planning to replace him. I fully respect that others may have a different opinion, I just don't get why they need to spout petty insults to defend their argument.
Once again I say that stats do not show the full story as to why or how the ball goes in, it just shows that the ball went past the keeper, e.g. a shot comes in the keeper has it fully covered but a defender sticks out a leg and deflects it away from the keeper who can do nothing about it, but the stats still show it went past the keeper. That is my only objection in overly relying on stats.
In saying that of course it is inevitable that all players will show a decline in performance as they get older, and we should be looking to improve.
Alfie, I'm sorry but the stats do most definitely not just show that the ball went past the keeper, absolutely not. Frankly that would be no better than goals conceded and would be utterly useless. The advanced stats take into account t several aspects including tje quality and nature of the defending in front of the keeper. So to answer your specific example, if the a defender (or any other player) were to deflect the ball away from the keeper then that would be explicitly reflected in the keeper's stats.
That said of course I agree with you that the eye test is also important, I guess I just fail to understand why several on here (all pro Leno) seem to be incapable or unwilling to understand how meaningful modern performance stats are.
Even if you choose to rely solely on the eye test, I'm not sure how people are looking at his performances last season and the one before and thinking that they've been top quality (and worth the £130k a week)? I can recall being very frustrated with him letting in soft goals being there in person at these matches.
Quote from: Neutral Zone Ultra on August 24, 2026, 04:28:05 PMEven if you choose to rely solely on the eye test, I'm not sure how people are looking at his performances last season and the one before and thinking that they've been top quality (and worth the £130k a week)? I can recall being very frustrated with him letting in soft goals being there in person at these matches.
Copy that. Past two seasons Leno has cost the team points. Very frustrating. As a fan, I am hoping he does well in every game of course, but he needs to up his game to a higher level. Fingers crossed he can improve his game.
Quote from: Twig on August 24, 2026, 04:10:49 PMQuote from: alfie on August 24, 2026, 01:55:03 PMQuote from: Twig on August 23, 2026, 03:08:17 PMQuote from: Chi_FFC on August 23, 2026, 01:32:02 PMQuote from: C Block on August 23, 2026, 09:44:25 AMImagine if he had Gabriel and Saliba playing in front of him, what a difference that would make to his "stats" that you all obsess over
There's a reason some of us keep saying that folks don't understand the stats being discussed in this thread and it's because of comments just like this. Again, the advanced shot stopping stats control for the quality of defense in front of the GK. If Leno had Gabriel and Saliba in front of him last season he'd still have been among the worst shot stoppers in the league! I'll say it again, Leno's best season BY FAR in the advanced shot stopping stats was in 22-23. He was first or second in the league depending on which you looked at. And that season the defense in front of him was by far the worst we've had since being back up in the PL (in terms of xGA and shots on targets against, etc.).
I don't know why but it seems there are folks on here who just don't want to understand. Almost some kind of flat earth mentality. All they do is call us moaners and repeat their failure to undetsand a simpe concept.
To be clear; I am absolutely not moaning, I do am not a Leno hater, in fact I have previously been very impressed by him. I simply pay attention to the stats (as well as the evidence of my eyes) which have convinced me that he is on the decline and that we should be planning to replace him. I fully respect that others may have a different opinion, I just don't get why they need to spout petty insults to defend their argument.
Once again I say that stats do not show the full story as to why or how the ball goes in, it just shows that the ball went past the keeper, e.g. a shot comes in the keeper has it fully covered but a defender sticks out a leg and deflects it away from the keeper who can do nothing about it, but the stats still show it went past the keeper. That is my only objection in overly relying on stats.
In saying that of course it is inevitable that all players will show a decline in performance as they get older, and we should be looking to improve.
Alfie, I'm sorry but the stats do most definitely not just show that the ball went past the keeper, absolutely not. Frankly that would be no better than goals conceded and would be utterly useless. The advanced stats take into account t several aspects including tje quality and nature of the defending in front of the keeper. So to answer your specific example, if the a defender (or any other player) were to deflect the ball away from the keeper then that would be explicitly reflected in the keeper's stats.
That said of course I agree with you that the eye test is also important, I guess I just fail to understand why several on here (all pro Leno) seem to be incapable or unwilling to understand how meaningful modern performance stats are.
I am now curious to look at his stats and see for myself and see what you are saying, I can't seem to find them, can you please enlighten me ?
Not a promising start to the new season for Bernd. I'm not going to post the advanced stopping numbers (as for me it's a stat that really doesn't start meaning much until you have a significant sample size) but they obviously weren't good today.
Palmer nutmegged him ffs
Quote from: Super Mick on August 25, 2026, 12:05:42 AMPalmer nutmegged him
For me that wasn't the only issue with Leno tonight. I also didn't like his decision to come out of the goal on the second. But back to the third goal you reference, as I said in the match thread it wasn't a howler, but it is one I'd like to see him save more often than not. And that is frankly the issue I've had with him over the past few years...and the issue that is illustrated clearly in the shot stopping stats that have been discussed in great detail here...he simply isn't saving enough savable shots. Look, it's just one match and I hope things improve but it was an inauspicious start considering his struggles the past few seasons.
Could be worse, we could have Sanchez. What a shocker he made with King's shot.
Quote from: Bassey the warrior on August 25, 2026, 01:04:00 AMCould be worse, we could have Sanchez. What a shocker he made with King's shot.
No doubt that was VERY poor from Sanchez. However the fact of the matter is over the past few years he's put up considerably better shot stopping numbers than Bernd.
Last night really confirmed everything this thread is about. We saw some OK moments from Leno, but we also saw some nervous distribution from the back, a silly decision to rush out on the 2nd and beaten easily for the 3rd.
Shot stopping is no longer a strong point for Leno.
Quote from: KentFulham on August 25, 2026, 05:30:29 AMLast night really confirmed everything this thread is about. We saw some OK moments from Leno, but we also saw some nervous distribution from the back, a silly decision to rush out on the 2nd and beaten easily for the 3rd.
Shot stopping is no longer a strong point for Leno.
He made a couple of important saves last night, kept us in the game, and was generally good and inspired confidence, I thought.
Some good saves from Leno but he is not the keeper for this system. His distribution is too slow and takes the wrong option too often.
I've been one of his biggest fans on here and think maybe our best value signing in a decade, but we do need to start thinking about succession.
I have not been anti Leno but I expect a PL keeper on his kind of salary to save at least one of the 2nd & 3rd goals.
If you come off your line and expose your goal (the 2nd goal) you have to come all the way and make the save.
Any goal through your legs like that is poor.
Quote from: Bassey the warrior on August 25, 2026, 01:04:00 AMCould be worse, we could have Sanchez. What a shocker he made with King's shot.
His positioning for Robinson's lob attempt was absolutely woeful too. He really should've been punished for it.
Given the financial might of Chelsea, it's a mystery why they haven't sought a better option. You'd have thought, with their existing Argentinian players too, Emi Martinez would be an obvious (and available) upgrade for them...
Keepers do let in goals through their legs. Remember Peter Mellor in the 1975 cup final against West Ham. I thought Leno did ok last night. I believe people should get off of his case.
Quote from: Craven Mad on August 25, 2026, 09:28:21 AMQuote from: Bassey the warrior on August 25, 2026, 01:04:00 AMCould be worse, we could have Sanchez. What a shocker he made with King's shot.
His positioning for Robinson's lob attempt was absolutely woeful too. He really should've been punished for it.
Given the financial might of Chelsea, it's a mystery why they haven't sought a better option. You'd have thought, with their existing Argentinian players too, Emi Martinez would be an obvious (and available) upgrade for them...
They've signed quite a few keepers under this ownership, but so far they're relying on the former back up Brighton keeper. Their transfer business very hit and miss frankly.
As you Martinez a good fit, but they've until now been reluctant to pay huge wages.
I can't think of a case of another Fulham player that is so staunchly defended when there is as much evidence to the contrary with Leno.
None of the goals yesterday were clangers, and he doesn't normally have major cockups. He though isn't stopping enough preventable goals, and isn't confident at claiming crosses or with the ball at his feet.
He will have good moments, but the balance isn't enough and it's not here or there - it's consistent across two seasons.
He must be aware that almost every time the opposition
crosses the Halfway line, the defence will part like the Red Sea.
Leaving him exposed like Babara Windsor in a Carry on film.
Quote from: john dempsey on August 25, 2026, 10:52:08 AMHe must be aware that almost every time the opposition
crosses the Halfway line, the defence will part like the Red Sea.
Leaving him exposed like Babara Windsor in a Carry on film.
oooh Matron
I'll throw in two goalkeeper names that I've been impressed with over a few seasons when I've seen them play 1st team football and would give Leno competition.
Zetterström from Derby County
Freddie Woodman 3rd choice at Liverpool having been bought from PNE.
Neither of those probably play behind a defence that resembles,
someone trying to Herd Cats..
There's no time to sign a replacement this window so we're going to need to quickly find a way to make this work. The idea of playing split cb's is clearly designed to aide us playing out from the back and maybe this will work better if we have a proper rcb playing in that position. Can't help but feel that signing will be absolutely crucial to our season, can Tony pull one out the bag?
Quote from: RaySmith on August 25, 2026, 07:54:56 AMQuote from: KentFulham on August 25, 2026, 05:30:29 AMLast night really confirmed everything this thread is about. We saw some OK moments from Leno, but we also saw some nervous distribution from the back, a silly decision to rush out on the 2nd and beaten easily for the 3rd.
Shot stopping is no longer a strong point for Leno.
He made a couple of important saves last night, kept us in the game
He made 3 saves last night and all of them were saves I would have expected ANY PL keeper to make.
Quote from: john dempsey on August 25, 2026, 12:05:32 PMNeither of those probably play behind a defence that resembles,
someone trying to Herd Cats..
Agree with regard yesterday but that comment doesn't apply to last season. You can say there were some defensive lapses sure, but only yesterday was the sort of defensive chaos that might unnerve a top keeper.
Quote from: Bassey the warrior on August 25, 2026, 12:16:44 PMThere's no time to sign a replacement this window so we're going to need to quickly find a way to make this work. The idea of playing split cb's is clearly designed to aide us playing out from the back and maybe this will work better if we have a proper rcb playing in that position. Can't help but feel that signing will be absolutely crucial to our season, can Tony pull one out the bag?
He really must.
None of the goals yesterday were clangers, and he doesn't normally have major cockups. He though isn't stopping enough preventable goals, and isn't confident at claiming crosses or with the ball at his feet.
This is the key for me - he is no longer making (or there are fewer of them) the exceptional saves that could make a difference to the result
Seen plenty of Ropey defending from Fulham.
much preferred Roys approach of Drill baby Drill.
haven't seen a cohesive defence since he was in charge.
Quote from: Bassey the warrior on August 25, 2026, 01:04:00 AMCould be worse, we could have Sanchez. What a shocker he made with King's shot.
Will take issue with this. And the broadcast commentators were saying the same thing, that Sanchez should have made that save v King. I'm gonna disagree a bit here, because this is why I have been harping on the lads to shoot the ball more. Last season, King may have passed off in that moment, with no goal scoring the result. Besides, King was in fairly close and he hit it pretty hard, full force. That's how you score goals and win games. Take the shot! Apparently AA shared with King the memo I sent him about shooting more, as before and after his goal, King had a couple of nice shots at top of the box that were very good chances. Even Sessegnon in his cameo took a shot close in that required a keeper save and produced a corner. Sadly, Bobb did not get the memo, as he had several chances to pull the trigger and he begged off.
Quote from: Bassey the warrior on August 25, 2026, 12:16:44 PMThere's no time to sign a replacement this window so we're going to need to quickly find a way to make this work. The idea of playing split cb's is clearly designed to aide us playing out from the back and maybe this will work better if we have a proper rcb playing in that position. Can't help but feel that signing will be absolutely crucial to our season, can Tony pull one out the bag?
The owners son Khan Junior couldn't pull his curtains.
Quote from: KentFulham on August 25, 2026, 05:30:29 AMLast night really confirmed everything this thread is about. We saw some OK moments from Leno, but we also saw some nervous distribution from the back, a silly decision to rush out on the 2nd and beaten easily for the 3rd.
Shot stopping is no longer a strong point for Leno.
If you want to blame anyone for the third goal, blame the three lazy defenders who couldn't be bothered to track the run of Cole Palmer, abysmal defending that you wouldn't expect to see at under 10 level,
Incidentally one of those defenders involved was Robinson, who later missed an easy chance to equalise, and yet not one single thread singling him out for criticism, let alone a six page thread, why ?
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on August 25, 2026, 09:00:35 AMI have not been anti Leno but I expect a PL keeper on his kind of salary to save at least one of the 2nd & 3rd goals.
If you come off your line and expose your goal (the 2nd goal) you have to come all the way and make the save.
Any goal through your legs like that is poor.
For the second goal the Chelsea's player passed the ball through 3 Fulham players to the unmarked scorer. This suggests more a lack of awareness by the defenders and the midfield.
And as for the ball going through Leno's legs, Palmer has 3 options as to where to shoot a shot low and with pace gives any keeper very little time to adjust his feet plus Bassey's attempt at a header on the half way line was woeful and no one ran with Palmer even though Robinson could see him.
I hate knocking players but on an odd occasion might agree politely as of now . Leno was and still is an amazing shot stopper but one or two of his antics are questionable . Positioning when crosses come in including corners. Hanging on to a pass backs too long with attackers appproching are a couple that come to mind .
Quote from: Craven Mad on August 25, 2026, 09:28:21 AMQuote from: Bassey the warrior on August 25, 2026, 01:04:00 AMCould be worse, we could have Sanchez. What a shocker he made with King's shot.
Given the financial might of Chelsea, it's a mystery why they haven't sought a better option.
You'd have thought, with their existing Argentinian players too, Emi Martinez would be an obvious (and available) upgrade for them...
They did it! (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c1j4r033wxzo)
Many have noticed Leno has been an issue for a while. This season is kind of proving it again.
Quote from: hopper on August 30, 2026, 04:07:51 PMMany have noticed Leno has been an issue for a while. This season is kind of proving it again.
For me it's much worse this year because he seems to have slowed down just a touch, mentally and physically. I think it's cost us two goals already this season, but there are some who think no keeper in the world could have done better for those.
Quote from: SimonDaviesEnjoyer on August 30, 2026, 04:10:22 PMQuote from: hopper on August 30, 2026, 04:07:51 PMMany have noticed Leno has been an issue for a while. This season is kind of proving it again.
For me it's much worse this year because he seems to have slowed down just a touch, mentally and physically.
I actually don't think it's any worse (to me he's slowed down considerably over the past two seasons) but in the system AA wants to play he's going to be exposed even more.
My dad's a hull fan and after watching the last two hull city matches. I wish we had a keeper like what tzolakis is appearing the be.
Quick reactions,
Assuring the safety of the box,
Playing out the back with a quick pace,
SAVES!
Some of his distribution was pretty poor but defeat wasn't down to him.
Really sad about Leno. I love him as a part of the club for us. He just comes across as a rock. So it's hard to admit it might be time
Quote from: _Putney_ on August 30, 2026, 05:52:42 PMReally sad about Leno. I love him as a part of the club for us. He just comes across as a rock. So it's hard to admit it might be time
It's like when a much-loved dog makes a mess in the lounge and you realise "it's time".
With the benefit of hindsight (and I must stress hindsight because I understand the thinking at the time) the worst decision the club has made since we've been back in the PL was giving him the big pay raise and contract extension after the 22-23 season.
We absolutely need a new keeper. I don't believe it can wait until next August.
Quote from: SimonDaviesEnjoyer on August 30, 2026, 06:01:37 PMQuote from: _Putney_ on August 30, 2026, 05:52:42 PMReally sad about Leno. I love him as a part of the club for us. He just comes across as a rock. So it's hard to admit it might be time
It's like when a much-loved dog makes a mess in the lounge and you realise "it's time".
Lol so sad but so true
Not a single new comment on this thread since the final whistle yesterday, long may it continue, looks like the haters have moved onto Oscar Bobb.
Quote from: C Block on September 13, 2026, 04:43:11 PMNot a single new comment on this thread since the final whistle yesterday, long may it continue, looks like the haters have moved onto Oscar Bobb.
What an idiotic comment.
You'll see elsewhere that I praised lenos save. He didn't have much to do.
I don't hate any Fulham player, just want Fulham to do as well as possible, it means we can comment on how some players aren't helping that cause.
Can we please get a grip and stop calling every poster a hater/scapegoater whenever they critique a Fulham player.
Quote from: Hatch007 on September 14, 2026, 09:10:46 AMCan we please get a grip and stop calling every poster a hater/scapegoater whenever they critique a Fulham player.
Fair do. But when you get comments like 'get rid', 'useless' 'not fit to wear the shirt' 'rubbish' 'time to move him along'. These aren't critiques, they're untoward comments on players who have served the club (yes and been well paid for it) for a number of years.
Quote from: C Block on September 13, 2026, 04:43:11 PMNot a single new comment on this thread since the final whistle yesterday, long may it continue, looks like the haters have moved onto Oscar Bobb.
Typical reactive take.
Really happy to have kept a clean sheet and he made a great stop. The issue isn't that he never makes good saves, as all do. As has been discussed elsewhere, various stats show he's not been performing well for the past few seasons.
Quote from: hopper on September 14, 2026, 09:54:56 AMQuote from: C Block on September 13, 2026, 04:43:11 PMNot a single new comment on this thread since the final whistle yesterday, long may it continue, looks like the haters have moved onto Oscar Bobb.
Typical reactive take.
Really happy to have kept a clean sheet and he made a great stop. The issue isn't that he never makes good saves, as all do. As has been discussed elsewhere, various stats show he's not been performing well for the past few seasons.
Last two games he's done well, and the game before the Liverpool game he made a few good saves. Data only tells one story when put in hindsight. Recent games suggest he's upped it again. Jury is still out as he's clearly not over the hill and done as many want to suggest.
Quote from: General on September 14, 2026, 10:14:06 AMQuote from: hopper on September 14, 2026, 09:54:56 AMQuote from: C Block on September 13, 2026, 04:43:11 PMNot a single new comment on this thread since the final whistle yesterday, long may it continue, looks like the haters have moved onto Oscar Bobb.
Typical reactive take.
Really happy to have kept a clean sheet and he made a great stop. The issue isn't that he never makes good saves, as all do. As has been discussed elsewhere, various stats show he's not been performing well for the past few seasons.
Last two games he's done well, and the game before the Liverpool game he made a few good saves. Data only tells one story when put in hindsight. Recent games suggest he's upped it again. Jury is still out as he's clearly not over the hill and done as many want to suggest.
Can't agree with an assessment that claims he did well in the Palace game I'm afraid General much as I often like your posts.
Seems there's a big divide on the Leno issue. He was in my opinion magnificent in the first season back. But two seasons ago pretty much everything flew past him, and that repeated last year. People can refute stats if they like but I don't think he passes the eye test either. For a keeper he also struggles with distribution, claiming crosses, or even penalty stops.
I really feel like people have their blinkers on with him but it's evident others are still big fans. I'll put it this way I don't think many or any other teams would want to trade their keeper for Leno and you'll never see opposition fans talk about how good he's been.
Of course he deserves respect as he's been a big part of our consolidation in the league, but that doesn't change the reality.
Quote from: hopper on September 14, 2026, 10:45:38 AMQuote from: General on September 14, 2026, 10:14:06 AMQuote from: hopper on September 14, 2026, 09:54:56 AMQuote from: C Block on September 13, 2026, 04:43:11 PMNot a single new comment on this thread since the final whistle yesterday, long may it continue, looks like the haters have moved onto Oscar Bobb.
Typical reactive take.
Really happy to have kept a clean sheet and he made a great stop. The issue isn't that he never makes good saves, as all do. As has been discussed elsewhere, various stats show he's not been performing well for the past few seasons.
Last two games he's done well, and the game before the Liverpool game he made a few good saves. Data only tells one story when put in hindsight. Recent games suggest he's upped it again. Jury is still out as he's clearly not over the hill and done as many want to suggest.
Can't agree with an assessment that claims he did well in the Palace game I'm afraid General much as I often like your posts.
Seems there's a big divide on the Leno issue. He was in my opinion magnificent in the first season back. But two seasons ago pretty much everything flew past him, and that repeated last year. People can refute stats if they like but I don't think he passes the eye test either. For a keeper he also struggles with distribution, claiming crosses, or even penalty stops.
I really feel like people have their blinkers on with him but it's evident others are still big fans. I'll put it this way I don't think many or any other teams would want to trade their keeper for Leno and you'll never see opposition fans talk about how good he's been.
Of course he deserves respect as he's been a big part of our consolidation in the league, but that doesn't change the reality.
Look i think he's a solid pro at this level, similar to Andersen, and whilst not perfect (very few are), he's part of and been part of a pretty solid defence the last couple of years.
Based on goals against last season, we conceded less than many team above us, including Man Utd who finished 3rd/4th. That doesn't suggest these players are atrocious or as bad as so many seem keen to believe and say.
What I'd suggest it's more suggestive of is that when people are trying to find ways we can get better they're being less tolerant of mistakes and looking for failings to highlight more, A) to feel like they're saying something meaningful- many of whom I imagine are younger posters and B) to find reasons for improvement and to rationalise where they may come from beyond giving players time to adapt to a new manager, new tactics or whatever..
The reality in my eyes is that whilst all of the above could be true, and may be to small degrees here and there, the biggest underlying factor is that for us to move onto the next stage is that we need to start competing for harder and harder to get players, because to get players who make less mistakes or whatever are rarer and more sought after (by the clubs they're at or bigger buying clubs), and that line between what we have and haven't got in terms of that additional quality is the fine line.
Look at our transfer window for an example.. want Pitarch? He apparently looked around Motspur but real didn't let him go. See Affengruber.. seems like he could be a good find, but he was our fourth or fifth choice behind the younger talents like Boudlal who's club didn't want to sell them. And so on..
I think people need to understand that the next step requires a lot more nuance, patience and also transfer business to be done differently.. the club have shown life to this regards in getting in Bobb, Kevin, Charles, Larsson, Garcia, Palacios, Angel etc, but it'll be a phased changing of the guard, as it should be, and not a straightforward either as players we do bring in aren't necessarily guaranteed to adapt.
We have to take punts on players that are showing significant potential and have a manager/coach who has the ability to sit with players and help them grow as players and people to overcome whatever emotional limitations are blocking them from reaching their full potential.
For what it's worth, I think Kevin is one who's going through that developmental, Garcia and Palacios go in that bucket, and I think ESR is on that continual journey too. All of them can come good and go beyond most expectations if they perserve.. similarly like Wilson, Dempsey and Zamora, and more recently Josh King, but when they do they'll be more than one season wonders as its not technique or skill that's holding them back but mindset and application which anyone can break through on.
Their ceilings are all higher, in my opinion than that of Dempsey, Camera etc, because they're all more naturally and technically talented, whereas Dempsey, Zamora etc all seemed more workhorses who go there through yes talent, but perhaps more hard work, if that makes sense?
Leno is, whether people care enough or not, a dependable and good PL level keeper and solid enough for a top 10 side, especially with players in front of him who are also at the same level.
Quote from: General on September 14, 2026, 12:15:52 PMgood PL level keeper and solid enough for a top 10 side
General, you're simply incorrect on this one.
Leno is not top ten level across any of the last three seasons. Whether you want to look at it statistically or via the naked eye. (Finished 14/14/12th in terms of save % those last seasons). I use save percetnages as it takes away your argument about the players in front of him to a certain extent.
Yes we didn't concede many as a team, but we weren't particularly inspiring or attacking to watch last season.
I like the Leno, I think he's good but would like a new keeper prioritsed in the next window as I want to get into Europe again.
Like Raul, thought he was really good, especially for his age, but time to get someone better so in comes Garcia.
Quote from: Jim© on September 14, 2026, 12:33:14 PMQuote from: General on September 14, 2026, 12:15:52 PMgood PL level keeper and solid enough for a top 10 side
General, you're simply incorrect on this one.
Leno is not top ten level across any of the last three seasons. Whether you want to look at it statistically or via the naked eye. (Finished 14/14/12th in terms of save % those last seasons). I use save percetnages as it takes away your argument about the players in front of him to a certain extent.
Yes we didn't concede many as a team, but we weren't particularly inspiring or attacking to watch last season.
I like the Leno, I think he's good but would like a new keeper prioritsed in the next window as I want to get into Europe again.
Like Raul, thought he was really good, especially for his age, but time to get someone better so in comes Garcia.
Yeah agree. There's so much to back this up as well, such as stats that measure goals prevented to quality of the chance and he was bottom on this.
Promoted teams have made some good keeper signings in recent years such as Roefs and Tzolakis, so there are keepers out there.
Whilst I understand General's line that people are less tolerant of mistakes, if you're performing at the bottom of key stats for two seasons - it's not simply a case of one or two errors, it's long term form.
Not saying Leno is a bad keeper, clearly that's not true - but in comparison to his peers he's arguably the weakest in the league.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and peoples critique can be excessive however some things need to be considered. I am an 'ex' paid up member of the goalkeeper's union being and ex keeper myself, sometimes things are out of our control.
Firstly, I agree that Leno is getting to that age that we should be looking at a replacement (Although would not mind seeing Alex Borto in the WHU game). I do not go by stats and only visually what I can see, however, people tend to forget the mitigating circumstances leading to a goal, ie: vision / blocking, deflection, speed of shot, balance of keeper, position etc and I will be quick to to say if keeper's fault or not. Yes he made an error in the CP game and was not helped by GG (fair play to coming back anyway ::thumb:: ) but please see below a review of the new PL ball.
Review Consensus
The "Wild" Factor: Reviewers note it feels exceptionally zippy and fast off the boot, giving it an "extra gear" that increases shot speed.
Control Adjustment: Because it transfers energy so aggressively, powerful strikes can rise or behave slightly unpredictably if not cleanly hit, making it a fun ball for outfield players but a tough challenge for goalkeepers.
Short-range passing and general touch remain solid and comparable to standard FIFA Quality Pro match balls, though high-powered driven balls require refined technique.
Even if I was still 25 (59 this year) I don't know if I would have saved the near post goal v CP given the above remarks, and the speed it went past him, he hardly had time to raise his hand and equally as a keeper you are in 2 minds as to whether there there is a cross incoming or a shot and you are slightly unbalanced as to your position. Yes, you should anticipate but it is extremely hard, especially with the speed of the game, especially today.
People will say, 'X' player cannot cross or 'X' player cannot pass, or 'X' player cannot shoot but they are not critiqued as much as a GK, as he is the last line of defence.
He made a great save v Liverpool from the header and then I queried to myself as to why he did not catch the ball that was shot straight at him as opposed to punching back out to play . . .. . until I read the above reviews on the new ball, and now I can understand why.
I am not excusing the new ball before anyone says you cannot blame it, however I have seen other games and as a viewer of goalkeeper's, I can honestly say, that the same mistakes are being made by all keepers, not just Leno.
Just my tuppence worth anyway and think what you will ::smile::
Quote from: AshfordFFC on September 14, 2026, 02:11:19 PMthe same mistakes are being made by all keepers, not just Leno
Ah, I completely get that, there's been more than a few this season that look to have taken keepers by surprise.
But those save % stats, whilst pretty crude (as it can often depend on factors such as ease of chance etc) do give a good picture over a longer period of time (ie a season).
Listen I'm no Leno hater, far from it i was delighted when we signed him and thought he was exceptional that season. But a great keeper will win you points single handedly. IMO I think he's better so far this season than last- one superb save v Palace in the 1st half and that save v Liverpool was excellent too. But Sunderland error and near post v Palace (not about getting hand to it, more about body positioning), were not great. The one against CFC he shares a bit of blame with the defenders.
He's fine, but with him being top earner (not his fault I know) and ageing, a new keeper is a real priority for me.
Quote from: C Block on September 13, 2026, 04:43:11 PMNot a single new comment on this thread since the final whistle yesterday, long may it continue, looks like the haters have moved onto Oscar Bobb.
Absolutely stupid and nasty comment. To be clear nobody, that is absolutely nobody Hates Bernd Leno. At least nobody on this board. This use of provocatice, click bait language is typical of a 14 year old WUM.
Quote from: General on September 14, 2026, 10:14:06 AMQuote from: hopper on September 14, 2026, 09:54:56 AMQuote from: C Block on September 13, 2026, 04:43:11 PMNot a single new comment on this thread since the final whistle yesterday, long may it continue, looks like the haters have moved onto Oscar Bobb.
Typical reactive take.
Really happy to have kept a clean sheet and he made a great stop. The issue isn't that he never makes good saves, as all do. As has been discussed elsewhere, various stats show he's not been performing well for the past few seasons.
Last two games he's done well, and the game before the Liverpool game he made a few good saves. Data only tells one story when put in hindsight. Recent games suggest he's upped it again. Jury is still out as he's clearly not over the hill and done as many want to suggest.
Nobody "wants" to suggest he's over the hill. They have just been pointing out that his stats have been declining towards bottom three of the Prem starting keepers. As to whether he has turned a corner, who knows as there is insufficient data to determine any sort of trend. Let's hope so.
Quote from: Jim© on September 14, 2026, 12:33:14 PMI use save percetnages as it takes away your argument about the players in front of him to a certain extent.
Actually it does not. It's the advanced stats that do that and Leno has performed even worse in those stats the past two seasons because he actually has had an above average PL defense in front of him. 20th of 20 in goals prevented last season, 17th of 19 in the previous. Look, everyone is entitled to their opinions but not their own facts. And the fact of the matter is that over the past two seasons Leno has been one of the worst keepers in the PL. Now with that being said he's going to be our keeper this season (unless things get really bad going into January) so let's hope he can turn things around.
Putting the boot into 14 year olds
is not a good look.
One would hope AA has a list of <25 year old Spanish GKs and we will bring one in this January to learn from Leno/Lecomte and work his way to be the starter by mid-season next year...
I have nothing against Leno, he would likely do well enough for a promoted side next season, but his skillset doesn't exactly line up with our new tactics.