He was not worth any where near 10 million and has been a huge disappointment, the 10 mil could have spent on a much better player and he should be embarrassed of his price tag perhaps the worst signing since Marlet!
Or how has a player who scored 30 goals (ok in the dutch lge but still a decent level of play) has been turned into a player who seems scared of his own shadow and could not find a barn door, let alone try to hit it.
I am very confused by people's perceptions of how Ruiz played.
I think Ruiz is a class player but clearly not suited to the pace of English football. Far more suited to the continental game where you get a bit more time and space on the ball. A bit of confidence will do him some good.
Quote from: Jack Fulham on August 27, 2013, 11:12:26 PM
I think Ruiz is a class player but clearly not suited to the pace of English football. Far more suited to the continental game where you get a bit more time and space on the ball.
If you cant do the business in the PL, you will only ever be 2nd class at best!
This is his third season in England and he hasn't adapted at all. We should just cut our losses.
His performance in the first half tonight, against League 2 opposition was incredibly poor. He was easily the worst player on the pitch
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on August 27, 2013, 11:15:49 PM
Quote from: Jack Fulham on August 27, 2013, 11:12:26 PM
I think Ruiz is a class player but clearly not suited to the pace of English football. Far more suited to the continental game where you get a bit more time and space on the ball.
If you cant do the business in the PL, you will only ever be 2nd class
Ruiz can do the business in the PL, had some great performances for us and contributes a decent amount of assists. Just hasn't justified his price tag. Was only saying he's more suited to the continental game which is true.
One of many players who underperformed tonight. Chalk it up to recovering confidence and match fitness. I expect both him and Dejagah will only improve as the season goes on
Quote from: Ordar on August 27, 2013, 11:17:30 PM
This is his third season in England and he hasn't adapted at all. We should just cut our losses.
His performance in the first half tonight, against League 2 opposition was incredibly poor. He was easily the worst player on the pitch
The worst player on the pitch who also created our goal. This is the dilemma.
Quote from: Chutney on August 27, 2013, 11:22:04 PM
Quote from: Ordar on August 27, 2013, 11:17:30 PM
This is his third season in England and he hasn't adapted at all. We should just cut our losses.
His performance in the first half tonight, against League 2 opposition was incredibly poor. He was easily the worst player on the pitch
The worst player on the pitch who also created our goal. This is the dilemma.
was behind most of our best chances too. and wouldnt say worse, parker couldnt pick a forwards pass to save his life, although to be fair he was probably dizzy from all his little spins he likes to do.
Taarabt made the goal totally himself. I think it's very generous to say that Ruiz assisted him. It was a simple pass to the wing
Quote from: Ordar on August 27, 2013, 11:25:33 PM
Taarabt made the goal totally himself. I think it's very generous to say that Ruiz assisted him. It was a simple pass to the wing
if berbatov gets one for a saved shot then im sure ruiz will get one for slotting him in
Didn't Ruiz have an assist too with the Albion 2nd? I'd like to see us move him on.
Well, I'll just leave this here and then show myself out.
I thought, by a good margin, Ruiz was our best offensive player. Nearly all of whatever effective attacking moves we had were started by him, including the first goal. He played a number of clever through balls, including a really nasty one around 55-60' that Bent and Kaca should have done better with. His passing was aggressive, and he made runs into the box off the ball.
There is a lot of talk about "confidence" and how he looks "scared" on the pitch. I don't understand what this means. Ruiz rarely shows emotion of any sort other than the occasional grimace, but any attempt to interpret this as some sort of insight into his mentality is cultural projection at best.
One word about Taraabt, because in the first half, Taraabt was obviously the spark for a lot of movement. Taraabt is the sort of skilled on-the-ball player who ought to dismantle League 2 opposition, and if we'd kept him on we probably would have won. But he's also the kid on your 6 year-old's team who dribbles too much and only works to create his own shot, because he thinks he can score from anywhere. (He can, just maybe not as frequently as he thinks.) I think Taraabt is a valuable asset and a useful weapon, and he adds something Fulham has lacked recently, but there's no evidence yet that he can create for anybody else on the team.
Quote from: Barrie on August 27, 2013, 11:31:23 PM
Didn't Ruiz have an assist too with the Albion 2nd? I'd like to see us move him on.
no id give a big clap for riise letting his man have a free header though. dont get the ruiz bashing, he was behind all our good moves. yet the bubble and parker get over run by a third division team and prove they are not the players to get the ball going forward yet they are the mustard.
Quote from: btings on August 27, 2013, 11:31:56 PM
Well, I'll just leave this here and then show myself out.
I thought, by a good margin, Ruiz was our best offensive player. Nearly all of whatever effective attacking moves we had were started by him, including the first goal. He played a number of clever through balls, including a really nasty one around 55-60' that Bent and Kaca should have done better with. His passing was aggressive, and he made runs into the box off the ball.
There is a lot of talk about "confidence" and how he looks "scared" on the pitch. I don't understand what this means. Ruiz rarely shows emotion of any sort other than the occasional grimace, but any attempt to interpret this as some sort of insight into his mentality is cultural projection at best.
One word about Taraabt, because in the first half, Taraabt was obviously the spark for a lot of movement. Taraabt is the sort of skilled on-the-ball player who ought to dismantle League 2 opposition, and if we'd kept him on we probably would have won. But he's also the kid on your 6 year-old's team who dribbles too much and only works to create his own shot, because he thinks he can score from anywhere. (He can, just maybe not as frequently as he thinks.) I think Taraabt is a valuable asset and a useful weapon, and he adds something Fulham has lacked recently, but there's no evidence yet that he can create for anybody else on the team.
Boo, take your well-reasoned opinion elsewhere, only short snarky snipes at Fulham players are allowed on this board
Quote from: btings on August 27, 2013, 11:31:56 PM
Well, I'll just leave this here and then show myself out.
I thought, by a good margin, Ruiz was our best offensive player. Nearly all of whatever effective attacking moves we had were started by him, including the first goal. He played a number of clever through balls, including a really nasty one around 55-60' that Bent and Kaca should have done better with. His passing was aggressive, and he made runs into the box off the ball.
There is a lot of talk about "confidence" and how he looks "scared" on the pitch. I don't understand what this means. Ruiz rarely shows emotion of any sort other than the occasional grimace, but any attempt to interpret this as some sort of insight into his mentality is cultural projection at best.
One word about Taraabt, because in the first half, Taraabt was obviously the spark for a lot of movement. Taraabt is the sort of skilled on-the-ball player who ought to dismantle League 2 opposition, and if we'd kept him on we probably would have won. But he's also the kid on your 6 year-old's team who dribbles too much and only works to create his own shot, because he thinks he can score from anywhere. (He can, just maybe not as frequently as he thinks.) I think Taraabt is a valuable asset and a useful weapon, and he adds something Fulham has lacked recently, but there's no evidence yet that he can create for anybody else on the team.
agreed. ruiz was the only one trying to get the ball going forwards for a lot of the second half.
Quote from: Barrie on August 27, 2013, 11:31:23 PM
Didn't Ruiz have an assist too with the Albion 2nd? I'd like to see us move him on.
Are you talking about the pass to Kacaniklic vs West Bromwich Albion last season? :54:
I honestly think it is a combination of Jols poor management, playing Ruiz so deep that he can't hurt the opposition as well as Ruiz's alarming lack of belief in his own ability that has made him into the shadow of a player that he was at Twente, I am certain he will not cut it at Fulham whilst Jol is manager..
Honestly, going forward, ruiz was one of our best players today. Plenty of effective through balls even with the lack of movement off the ball from the other forward players.
The blame ruiz attitude needs to stop.
Quote from: Berbasilk_111 on August 27, 2013, 11:38:40 PM
I honestly think it is a combination of Jols poor management, playing Ruiz so deep that he can't hurt the opposition as well as Ruiz's alarming lack of belief in his own ability that has made him into the shadow of a player that he was at Twente, I am certain he will not cut it at Fulham whilst Jol is manager..
would have been the same with berba today, he would have spent a lot of time in our half (although he would have probably tackled parker and the greek) and tried to get the ball going forwards. its just a crap formation playing with 2 dm's that has proved its not that good even against lower league teams. we would have been alot better playing sidwell and boatang in this game.
I was watching a rather poor quality stream, but I'm pretty sure it was Ruiz who lost possession in the right back position. Correct me if I'm wrong. Not gonna argue with the comment about Riise though.
He dropped far too deep tonight. Almost Berbatov-esque. Which left Bent incredibly isolated
Quote from: Ordar on August 27, 2013, 11:42:29 PM
He dropped far too deep tonight. Almost Berbatov-esque. Which left Bent incredibly isolated
yes well blame parker and karagounis for that. if they could get things going he wouldnt have to be in our half.
Quote from: btings on August 27, 2013, 11:31:56 PM
Well, I'll just leave this here and then show myself out.
I thought, by a good margin, Ruiz was our best offensive player. Nearly all of whatever effective attacking moves we had were started by him, including the first goal. He played a number of clever through balls, including a really nasty one around 55-60' that Bent and Kaca should have done better with. His passing was aggressive, and he made runs into the box off the ball.
There is a lot of talk about "confidence" and how he looks "scared" on the pitch. I don't understand what this means. Ruiz rarely shows emotion of any sort other than the occasional grimace, but any attempt to interpret this as some sort of insight into his mentality is cultural projection at best.
One word about Taraabt, because in the first half, Taraabt was obviously the spark for a lot of movement. Taraabt is the sort of skilled on-the-ball player who ought to dismantle League 2 opposition, and if we'd kept him on we probably would have won. But he's also the kid on your 6 year-old's team who dribbles too much and only works to create his own shot, because he thinks he can score from anywhere. (He can, just maybe not as frequently as he thinks.) I think Taraabt is a valuable asset and a useful weapon, and he adds something Fulham has lacked recently, but there's no evidence yet that he can create for anybody else on the team.
This is spot on. Now can we move on from ruiz and find a new scapegoat.
Ruiz was poor but so too were Dejagah and Riise, while Kaca kept giving the ball away. It seems Ruiz is always the scapegoat, usually unfairly.
Quote from: fulhamben on August 27, 2013, 11:44:05 PM
Quote from: Ordar on August 27, 2013, 11:42:29 PM
He dropped far too deep tonight. Almost Berbatov-esque. Which left Bent incredibly isolated
yes well blame parker and karagounis for that. if they could get things going he wouldnt have to be in our half.
Parker really is the master of the 2 yard sideways pass. Karagounis tried to play forwards but he needed support. We still need that forward thinking CM to partner Sidwell.
It's funny how everyone could see how much effective Ruiz is in the final third of the pitch yet it seems as if he has been given instructions by Jol to remain back.. Very strange..
Quote from: Chutney on August 27, 2013, 11:46:24 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on August 27, 2013, 11:44:05 PM
Quote from: Ordar on August 27, 2013, 11:42:29 PM
He dropped far too deep tonight. Almost Berbatov-esque. Which left Bent incredibly isolated
yes well blame parker and karagounis for that. if they could get things going he wouldnt have to be in our half.
Parker really is the master of the 2 yard sideways pass. Karagounis tried to play forwards but he needed support. We still need that forward thinking CM to partner Sidwell.
WHAT and miss parker doing this for 90 minutes
Sophia Lucia does 54 pirouettes!!!!! 3/25/12 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMbB6bmjBxA#)
Definitely agree with the fact that with Ruiz there's always a magnifying glass around everything he does on the pitch, which is a little unfair, but for a player of his ability you just expect so much more
Quote from: fulhams_finest on August 27, 2013, 11:03:45 PM
He was not worth any where near 10 million and has been a huge disappointment, the 10 mil could have spent on a much better player and he should be embarrassed of his price tag perhaps the worst signing since Marlet!
Ruiz is being played out of position. He is no good playing effectively as an extra central midfielder most of the time. He likes to create goals and score goals, that's what he's good at. Jol has wasted his talent and it infuriates me because he's technically brilliant, we've all seen that.
Quote from: btings on August 27, 2013, 11:31:56 PM
Well, I'll just leave this here and then show myself out.
I thought, by a good margin, Ruiz was our best offensive player. Nearly all of whatever effective attacking moves we had were started by him, including the first goal. He played a number of clever through balls, including a really nasty one around 55-60' that Bent and Kaca should have done better with. His passing was aggressive, and he made runs into the box off the ball.
There is a lot of talk about "confidence" and how he looks "scared" on the pitch. I don't understand what this means. Ruiz rarely shows emotion of any sort other than the occasional grimace, but any attempt to interpret this as some sort of insight into his mentality is cultural projection at best.
One word about Taraabt, because in the first half, Taraabt was obviously the spark for a lot of movement. Taraabt is the sort of skilled on-the-ball player who ought to dismantle League 2 opposition, and if we'd kept him on we probably would have won. But he's also the kid on your 6 year-old's team who dribbles too much and only works to create his own shot, because he thinks he can score from anywhere. (He can, just maybe not as frequently as he thinks.) I think Taraabt is a valuable asset and a useful weapon, and he adds something Fulham has lacked recently, but there's no evidence yet that he can create for anybody else on the team.
I agree that Ruiz was the most effective attacking player, it's no surprise to me that he was most effective in the final third. It's just so infuriating that he drops into midfield for most of the team, seemingly unwilling to try to enter the final third, because he's great there.
As for Taarabt, he has played some good passes in the past few games and will definitely get plenty of assists I think.
Take this performance out of the window Ruiz has still been a major dissapointment especially when you think of players like Michu that were worth less money and have talent to the PL like a duck to water - maybe it's time for Jol to finally face up to the act hes messed up on Ruiz and cut his losses and sell him back to a Dutch club - how much longer does he need to mould to the PL? After tonight's performance though I'm worried we might not win another game again
Yes Ruiz is awful. Fancy being robbed for their.......wait a moment. What in gods name is he doing back there? Is he dismissing the managers instructions?
Ruiz was poor in the first half but was creating in the second. He and Tarrabt were very dangerous in their own way. Shame that Ruiz seemed to be playing as a defensive midfielder at times. Not his choice I would imagine. Oh for the right man to see what good players we have and not ask them to defend. Ruiz can be a stunning player. But if he has to beat 5 players before reaching the half way line, then yes he will look poor.
Burton blimmin Albion were treated like a top Prem side. We should have come away with all the possession we had with more proper chances, not long hopeful shots. Very frustrating
Jol is ruining Ruiz's Fulham career.. Who next? Dejagah?
The question is will he or should he start against Newcastle this weekend?
This thread is a bit of a knee-jerk
Quote from: fulhams_finest on August 28, 2013, 12:13:03 AM
Take this performance out of the window Ruiz has still been a major dissapointment especially when you think of players like Michu that were worth less money and have talent to the PL like a duck to water - maybe it's time for Jol to finally face up to the act hes messed up on Ruiz and cut his losses and sell him back to a Dutch club - how much longer does he need to mould to the PL? After tonight's performance though I'm worried we might not win another game again
Michu doesn't have to spend most of the time at his half way line.
ruiz is singularly unimpressive and now fayed is gone jol doesn't HAVE to play him.
He isn't without talent but is lightweight, rather slow and ponderous and against burtom attempted far too many poor passes or otherwise showboat.
Even his penalty was a joke, it went in but that was 100% the fluke of the century, he didn't hit the target!
i know some kind people defend him but he is really a waste of time, his good performances are too few and far between.
Quote from: Chutney on August 27, 2013, 11:46:24 PM
Quote from: fulhamben on August 27, 2013, 11:44:05 PM
Quote from: Ordar on August 27, 2013, 11:42:29 PM
He dropped far too deep tonight. Almost Berbatov-esque. Which left Bent incredibly isolated
yes well blame parker and karagounis for that. if they could get things going he wouldnt have to be in our half.
Parker really is the master of the 2 yard sideways pass. Karagounis tried to play forwards but he needed support. We still need that forward thinking CM to partner Sidwell.
He made plenty of long passes, too, and in the first half at least, he must have had twice as much possession as any other Fulham player. But people on here seem determined to be negative about him.
I would say that for the first three quarters of the match we seemed to have 2/3rds possession, but it was going nowhere. There was no penetration and there was virtually no running off the ball to create opportunities for a pass or to draw defenders. Lots of pretty-pretty, but no killer balls and no end product.
I enjoyed the penalty shoot-out though and it was at our end. First one I've ever seen in person.
Yes, but Burton packed their defence, and it was only a bit of individual skill from Taarabt that penetrated it - but we should still have been out of sight with the chances we had by the time Burton went for it ten minutes before the end.
But good for Fulham for battling their way back to win the game. Much to be positive about here, with Parker and Taarabt looking great signings, and Bent giving glimpses of the player he can be for us.
Well done Jol and the team.
Not slept yet, have two interviews later today, what do I do, I come on here naturally.
A few thoughts, Parker has really impressed me, he's showing the West Ham form. At Spurs his passing was limited and it appeared that it was due to lack of ability, but perhaps it was tactical. But he is not a playmaker, he's neat and can play forward passes comfortably like Diarra but he doesn't have the ability to anticipate a forward run and produce a precise through ball. Only Berba, Ruiz and Taarabt (very occasionally) can do that.
Ruiz if he showed anything in that first half, showed a desire to play the perfect ball to create a goal. He failed completely and the turnover was far too close to our own goal for my liking. But in the second half he played progressively higher up the pitch and created lots of create chances.
This is where he is at his best, but for an offensive player he very rarely gets into the final third and I suspect that's a tactical decision. I doubt he scored 24 goals in the Eredivisie from the halfway line.
So, it's decision making time, and this aimed at Martin (because we all know he's an avid reader of this forum), play Ruiz further forward or sell him. He's not only wasted playing so deep, he's actually a liability.
I can tell you how to fix the problems we have. Firstly, sign a playmaker and left back. It may not be cheap but you have to spend money merely to stay up these days. Secondly dispose of the conservative 4-4-1-1 system, swap with amore fluid 4.
2-3-1 system playing a deep lying playmaker who is defensively solid alongside a more offensive minded ball winner who will win possession high up the pitch. Play a slightly higher line but instruct the the central midfielders to rotate who joins the attack, one must stay back to protect the defence at all times, especially because all of our centre backs are slow. This means more bodies forward thus a quicker build up of attacks and no real need to play ineffective long balls to the striker. The players will need to be very fit as this system relies on a lot of pressing (running).
That is a system that will get the best out of our talented bunch of attack minded players.
Jol has my support until Christmas, but the board must give him the money to fill the required roles, there's no point half doing the job.
If Karagounis were a younger player he'd be our man, then again he'd be out of our reach. No idea who we could sign, Chantome was my choice.
Perhaps Boateng can be the man we need, it's too early to say. But the key thing is get Bryan up where he can do some damage.
Bpoatang would be the man but we could not afford the fee or salary sadly.
Quote from: westcliff white on August 28, 2013, 06:39:41 AM
Bpoatang would be the man but we could not afford the fee or salary sadly.
?
Quote from: The Moose on August 28, 2013, 06:41:49 AM
Quote from: westcliff white on August 28, 2013, 06:39:41 AM
Bpoatang would be the man but we could not afford the fee or salary sadly.
?
I meant KP Boatang would be the man but his fee and salary would be to much for us
Quote from: westcliff white on August 28, 2013, 07:27:08 AM
Quote from: The Moose on August 28, 2013, 06:41:49 AM
Quote from: westcliff white on August 28, 2013, 06:39:41 AM
Bpoatang would be the man but we could not afford the fee or salary sadly.
?
I meant KP Boatang would be the man but his fee and salary would be to much for us
No he wouldn't. He's more of an attacking midfielder, he wouldn't have the discipline for this role.
RUIZ played rubbish last night bottom line. Every little barge or touch he gets from the opposition last night he is bitching to the ref. He wont know what cup football is like because he aint English. But to be fair he is working back towards match fitness like Dejagah is.
The Reality Of Ruiz..is he wants too long on the ball and in England he's never going to get that.
Skillful player with a nice haircut but the cutting edge of a feather.
Quote from: fulhams_finest on August 27, 2013, 11:03:45 PM
He was not worth any where near 10 million and has been a huge disappointment, the 10 mil could have spent on a much better player and he should be embarrassed of his price tag perhaps the worst signing since Marlet!
Agreed. Although you do know negative Ruiz comments are very much frowned upon on this forum? I said something similar 2-3 weeks ago & it didn't go down well at all. Lots of stats available from somewhere that tell you he's a top player & we must ignore the fact that he's offered nothing since he's been here. He doesn't take people on, not successfully anyway, creates very few assists & scores even fewer goals. Basically a waste of time putting him out there. But don't mention it.
I think you should all be embarrassed by this thread, it's nowhere near worth 4 pages and this is the worst forum since Cottage Corner.