When are all you plastic, "knowitall" fans, who actually know {very little} all about football or anything to do with running a club etc, going to leave this board?
It winds me up reading posts with people saying "sell Mitroglu" because you've never seen him play regularly or "buy this player" (ironically, after not seeing them play regularly!).
You've managed to hound Ruiz and Senderos out the club; both of whom are international, world cup playing players. We could have done with Senderos in the team this season, he would have easily been our best defender (and yes I'm being serious!). Senderos made the odd mistake and people jumped down his throat. But Hangeland made more and so did all the others.
It's also been suggested that we swap Mitroglu, a Champions League experienced, high scoring striker, for players who has played well for a season in the Championship. How the hell does that equate to a good bit of business?
These are also the same people who slag off MAF for under investing in the team. Yes, perhaps he did, but he has left us in a place we should be incredibly grateful for. Look at the youth set up we have, the stadium and the lack of debt. All things that are more important now we have dropped divisions. Imagine he hadn't invested that and Kahn had to pump money into players and infrastructure? I know which I'd have chosen. He has also stated that he will spend whatever it takes to get us back up. At my reckoning, it could be up to £70 million (I say upto, because it's unlikely gonna be that much, but you get the idea!)
Please also remember; Felix Magath came in AFTER the january transfer window had closed, he was the third manager the players had been made to work with in a season. He had to find the best team and position for his players, meaning he had a very limited window of opportunity to experiment etc. This is a very experienced manager and ex player. As a player, he lost twice in the World Cup final with West Germany, and scored the only goal (which was an absolute screamer) in the Champions League final. He's been there, done that and effectively got the t-shirt.
So, until you can show me the proof that you know more about business, running a football club, playing or managing a team, please stop with the negativity. The team and club as a whole need our support, through thick and thin. Not to have a few numpties shouting and booing from the stands when we lose a game or don't go up on the first attempt.
Fulham are and always will be in my heart. I will follow and love them (and I have been there before) if we were playing Corintian Casuals on a damp saturday afternoon. :048:
** swearing
Sorry but its a forum about opinions.
I dont agree with your opinion on Senderos, but does that make your view or mine anymore valid?
Why is it ok for you to say he should have stayed and mine that I'm glad he left not ok?
Quote from: MJG on May 15, 2014, 11:20:33 AM
Sorry but its a forum about opinions.
I dont agree with your opinion on Senderos, but does that make your view or mine anymore valid?
Why is it ok for you to say he should have stayed and mine that I'm glad he left?
Judging by the OP comment, none of your opinions are valid unless you've played professional football/managed professional football or lost world cup finals. So its a contradiction in itself.
Sorry. old boy, but someone who still slavishly defends Fayed's lack of investment is hardly likely to be able to judge anyone else's qualification to comment on the Club in particular or football in general.
:005: I hope this is a wind up. Well done if it is.
**Complains about fans giving their opinion. Goes on to give his opinion.**Objects to people who think they know things. Goes on to try and show how much he knows**
It's a bit hypocritical, don't you think? I do hope, as suggested above, that this is a joke.
In case it isn't.. This is a fan forum, created to allow fans to share their - often disparate - views. You'll agree with some people, you'll disagree with others. It happens. Get over it.
Quote from: Lighthouse on May 15, 2014, 11:27:39 AM
:005: I hope this is a wind up. Well done if it is.
^ This.
Quote from: MJG on May 15, 2014, 11:20:33 AM
Sorry but its a forum about opinions.
I dont agree with your opinion on Senderos, but does that make your view or mine anymore valid?
Why is it ok for you to say he should have stayed and mine that I'm glad he left not ok?
How was he rubbish??
Made one or two mistakes, but how many did Hangeland make? Or has he been world class this season.
This is exactly what I'm chatting about though. You're making a joke of my thoughts and opinions.
I'm not saying you have to be an ex professional, but at the same time who are you to say this player wont suit or that player is ideal etc?? You dont know the ideas and plan the manager has. Why not just say "ok, lets see how that pans out"?
Sent from my GT-S6810P using Tapatalk
Quote from: BigbadBillyMcKinley on May 15, 2014, 11:39:42 AM
Quote from: MJG on May 15, 2014, 11:20:33 AM
Sorry but its a forum about opinions.
I dont agree with your opinion on Senderos, but does that make your view or mine anymore valid?
Why is it ok for you to say he should have stayed and mine that I'm glad he left not ok?
How was he rubbish??
Made one or two mistakes, but how many did Hangeland make? Or has he been world class this season.
This is exactly what I'm chatting about though. You're making a joke of my thoughts and opinions.
I'm not saying you have to be an ex professional, but at the same time who are you to say this player wont suit or that player is ideal etc?? You dont know the ideas and plan the manager has. Why not just say "ok, lets see how that pans out"?
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Who are you to say he would have or wouldn't have though? You take the high ground saying we shouldn't judge, then immediately convey a subjective opinion. Even if its a positive opinion, it makes it no more/less of an opinion...
Quote from: BigbadBillyMcKinley on May 15, 2014, 11:39:42 AM
Quote from: MJG on May 15, 2014, 11:20:33 AM
Sorry but its a forum about opinions.
I dont agree with your opinion on Senderos, but does that make your view or mine anymore valid?
Why is it ok for you to say he should have stayed and mine that I'm glad he left not ok?
How was he rubbish??
Made one or two mistakes, but how many did Hangeland make? Or has he been world class this season.
This is exactly what I'm chatting about though. You're making a joke of my thoughts and opinions.
I'm not saying you have to be an ex professional, but at the same time who are you to say this player wont suit or that player is ideal etc?? You dont know the ideas and plan the manager has. Why not just say "ok, lets see how that pans out"?
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Point 1)
I agree with MJG, I thought he was rubbish, too. That doesn't mean you're wrong, it just means we disagree.
Point 2)
You're taking issue with someone discrediting your opinions as a 'joke'. But your opening gambit in this thread was: "When are all you plastic, "knowitall" fans, who actually know f*** all about football or anything to do with running a club etc, going to leave this board?". You have no evidence about the careers or know-how of anyone on this forum, yet you feel it's ok to discredit others simply because they have a different view.
You're unlikely to get people on-side with that attitude. Just an opinion, though..
This guy has always had the biggest man crush on Senderos. He was a bigger disaster than any of our other poor excuses for defenders mate. One or two mistakes? How many games have you watched in the past few years. He cost us countless games with his lack of pace, finesse and brains.
And as for Ruiz I don't know where to start.
So there you go that's my opinion.
I am in 100% agreement with BBBMcK and his Austenesque delivery.....But then I know nothing of business or running a football club and very little more about playing and managing - so I am almost certainly 100% wrong.
Quote from: Craven Mad on May 15, 2014, 11:47:15 AM
Quote from: BigbadBillyMcKinley on May 15, 2014, 11:39:42 AM
Quote from: MJG on May 15, 2014, 11:20:33 AM
Sorry but its a forum about opinions.
I dont agree with your opinion on Senderos, but does that make your view or mine anymore valid?
Why is it ok for you to say he should have stayed and mine that I'm glad he left not ok?
How was he rubbish??
Made one or two mistakes, but how many did Hangeland make? Or has he been world class this season.
This is exactly what I'm chatting about though. You're making a joke of my thoughts and opinions.
I'm not saying you have to be an ex professional, but at the same time who are you to say this player wont suit or that player is ideal etc?? You dont know the ideas and plan the manager has. Why not just say "ok, lets see how that pans out"?
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Point 1)
I agree with MJG, I thought he was rubbish, too. That doesn't mean you're wrong, it just means we disagree.
Point 2)
You're taking issue with someone discrediting your opinions as a 'joke'. But your opening gambit in this thread was: "When are all you plastic, "knowitall" fans, who actually know f*** all about football or anything to do with running a club etc, going to leave this board?". You have no evidence about the careers or know-how of anyone on this forum, yet you feel it's ok to discredit others simply because they have a different view.
You're unlikely to get people on-side with that attitude. Just an opinion, though..
Don't listen to him Bill, he never played professionally anyway!
Quote from: BigbadBillyMcKinley on May 15, 2014, 11:39:42 AM
Quote from: MJG on May 15, 2014, 11:20:33 AM
Sorry but its a forum about opinions.
I dont agree with your opinion on Senderos, but does that make your view or mine anymore valid?
Why is it ok for you to say he should have stayed and mine that I'm glad he left not ok?
How was he rubbish??
Made one or two mistakes, but how many did Hangeland make? Or has he been world class this season.
This is exactly what I'm chatting about though. You're making a joke of my thoughts and opinions.
I'm not saying you have to be an ex professional, but at the same time who are you to say this player wont suit or that player is ideal etc?? You dont know the ideas and plan the manager has. Why not just say "ok, lets see how that pans out"?
Sent from my GT-S6810P using Tapatalk
Ok so the club let Senderos go, some expert at the club decided that. I agree with the expert at the club, that's how it panned out.
Look I never said he was rubbish, I never made a joke of your thoughts or opinion.
If you have ever read my posts on Senderos I have always backed up why I did not 'rate' him or want him in the team. He had attributes but overall I was not a fan.
More than happy to discuss anything on here football related and I will always try to back up my view instead of some people who just say their **** or crap. If you have a reasoned argument for a point of view then this is the forum to make it on.
Quote from: MJG on May 15, 2014, 11:51:16 AM
Quote from: BigbadBillyMcKinley on May 15, 2014, 11:39:42 AM
Quote from: MJG on May 15, 2014, 11:20:33 AM
Sorry but its a forum about opinions.
I dont agree with your opinion on Senderos, but does that make your view or mine anymore valid?
Why is it ok for you to say he should have stayed and mine that I'm glad he left not ok?
How was he rubbish??
Made one or two mistakes, but how many did Hangeland make? Or has he been world class this season.
This is exactly what I'm chatting about though. You're making a joke of my thoughts and opinions.
I'm not saying you have to be an ex professional, but at the same time who are you to say this player wont suit or that player is ideal etc?? You dont know the ideas and plan the manager has. Why not just say "ok, lets see how that pans out"?
Sent from my GT-S6810P using Tapatalk
Ok so the club let Senderos go, some expert at the club decided that. I agree with the expert at the club, that's how it panned out.
Look I never said he was rubbish, I never made a joke of your thoughts or opinion.
If you have ever read my posts on Senderos I have always backed up why I did not 'rate' him or want him in the team. He had attributes but overall I was not a fan.
More than happy to discuss anything on here football related and I will always try to back up my view instead of some people who just say their poo or crap. If you have a reasoned argument for a point of view then this is the forum to make it on.
Why aren't we allowed to say he was rubbish when he was quite clearly really really rubbish?
Quote from: the nutflush on May 15, 2014, 11:52:47 AM
Quote from: MJG on May 15, 2014, 11:51:16 AM
Quote from: BigbadBillyMcKinley on May 15, 2014, 11:39:42 AM
Quote from: MJG on May 15, 2014, 11:20:33 AM
Sorry but its a forum about opinions.
I dont agree with your opinion on Senderos, but does that make your view or mine anymore valid?
Why is it ok for you to say he should have stayed and mine that I'm glad he left not ok?
How was he rubbish??
Made one or two mistakes, but how many did Hangeland make? Or has he been world class this season.
This is exactly what I'm chatting about though. You're making a joke of my thoughts and opinions.
I'm not saying you have to be an ex professional, but at the same time who are you to say this player wont suit or that player is ideal etc?? You dont know the ideas and plan the manager has. Why not just say "ok, lets see how that pans out"?
Sent from my GT-S6810P using Tapatalk
Ok so the club let Senderos go, some expert at the club decided that. I agree with the expert at the club, that's how it panned out.
Look I never said he was rubbish, I never made a joke of your thoughts or opinion.
If you have ever read my posts on Senderos I have always backed up why I did not 'rate' him or want him in the team. He had attributes but overall I was not a fan.
More than happy to discuss anything on here football related and I will always try to back up my view instead of some people who just say their poo or crap. If you have a reasoned argument for a point of view then this is the forum to make it on.
Why aren't we allowed to say he was rubbish when he was quite clearly really really rubbish?
there are exceptions to all rules
Quote from: FFC1987 on May 15, 2014, 11:49:17 AM
Quote from: Craven Mad on May 15, 2014, 11:47:15 AM
Quote from: BigbadBillyMcKinley on May 15, 2014, 11:39:42 AM
Quote from: MJG on May 15, 2014, 11:20:33 AM
Sorry but its a forum about opinions.
I dont agree with your opinion on Senderos, but does that make your view or mine anymore valid?
Why is it ok for you to say he should have stayed and mine that I'm glad he left not ok?
How was he rubbish??
Made one or two mistakes, but how many did Hangeland make? Or has he been world class this season.
This is exactly what I'm chatting about though. You're making a joke of my thoughts and opinions.
I'm not saying you have to be an ex professional, but at the same time who are you to say this player wont suit or that player is ideal etc?? You dont know the ideas and plan the manager has. Why not just say "ok, lets see how that pans out"?
Sent from my GT-S6810P using Tapatalk
Point 1)
I agree with MJG, I thought he was rubbish, too. That doesn't mean you're wrong, it just means we disagree.
Point 2)
You're taking issue with someone discrediting your opinions as a 'joke'. But your opening gambit in this thread was: "When are all you plastic, "knowitall" fans, who actually know f*** all about football or anything to do with running a club etc, going to leave this board?". You have no evidence about the careers or know-how of anyone on this forum, yet you feel it's ok to discredit others simply because they have a different view.
You're unlikely to get people on-side with that attitude. Just an opinion, though..
Don't listen to him Bill, he never played professionally anyway!
Oh no!! The jig's up!! I'll never be believed again!!
Quote from: BigbadBillyMcKinley on May 15, 2014, 11:54:21 AM
Well Senderos has proven most wrong by playing well in italy. But then I guess that doesnt count. And how was ruiz poo? He was booed off the pitch by his own fans. Not gonna fill him with confidence. The bloke is class but, like a lot of imports, needs a while to settle into the pace of the football over here. Henry didnt bang them in for a while and look how poo he turned out. Whos to say Ruiz wouldnt have turned out similar (notice I said similar and not the same!).
Booing your own players and team is a big big bare of mine.
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14 games for Milan means he's great? Ok whats your views on Kasami?
Kasmai had more potential than hes showing. Like a lot of our players in the past; Zat Knight and Jimmy Bullard being prime example, get their head turned and become worse than they were.
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Quote from: BigbadBillyMcKinley on May 15, 2014, 11:54:21 AM
Well Senderos has proven most wrong by playing well in italy. But then I guess that doesnt count. And how was ruiz poo? He was booed off the pitch by his own fans. Not gonna fill him with confidence. The bloke is class but, like a lot of imports, needs a while to settle into the pace of the football over here. Henry didnt bang them in for a while and look how poo he turned out. Whos to say Ruiz wouldnt have turned out similar (notice I said similar and not the same!).
Booing your own players and team is a big big bare of mine.
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Really? Now you're comparing Ruiz to Henry? Mate you're just making yourself look sillier with every post. Ruiz was total poo and you cant deny it. If he wasn't so poo he would have been starting for us till the end of the season. But he wasn't because he was totally poo and everyone else except Jol and apparently yourself knew it.
Quote from: BigbadBillyMcKinley on May 15, 2014, 11:58:20 AM
Kasmai had more potential than hes showing. Like a lot of our players in the past; Zat Knight and Jimmy Bullard being prime example, get their head turned and become worse than they were.
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But according to your 'He played in Italy must be great theory' he's as good as Senderos
I´m staying out of this one. Someone is going to say Frank Large was our greatest ever centre forward.
Quote from: grandad on May 15, 2014, 12:11:41 PM
I´m staying out of this one. Someone is going to say Frank Large was our greatest ever centre forward.
Did he play in Italy as well?
Quote from: the nutflush on May 15, 2014, 11:59:57 AM
Quote from: BigbadBillyMcKinley on May 15, 2014, 11:54:21 AM
Well Senderos has proven most wrong by playing well in italy. But then I guess that doesnt count. And how was ruiz poo? He was booed off the pitch by his own fans. Not gonna fill him with confidence. The bloke is class but, like a lot of imports, needs a while to settle into the pace of the football over here. Henry didnt bang them in for a while and look how poo he turned out. Whos to say Ruiz wouldnt have turned out similar (notice I said similar and not the same!).
Booing your own players and team is a big big bare of mine.
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Really? Now you're comparing Ruiz to Henry? Mate you're just making yourself look sillier with every post. Ruiz was total poo and you cant deny it. If he wasn't so poo he would have been starting for us till the end of the season. But he wasn't because he was totally poo and everyone else except Jol and apparently yourself knew it.
No, my point on Ruiz was, he wasn't given a chance to prove himself in england. Hes a very very good player, perhaps if he was cheaper he'd have been given a chance yeah? Same with Mitroglu. How can anyone say hes poor when hes hardly played? Give him a season at least. If he plays badly and scores less than 15 goals next year then I'll agree.
Regarding senderos, an expert at the club also got rid of aaron hughes, argueably our best defender for many season. A very much unsung hero, a player who got hangeland out of trouble more often than not. Call him the Carvalho of Fulham. He went and we conseeded more goals.
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I played in Italy. On the beach in Vasto. And Im totally poo.
Quote from: FFC1987 on May 15, 2014, 12:15:32 PM
Quote from: grandad on May 15, 2014, 12:11:41 PM
I´m staying out of this one. Someone is going to say Frank Large was our greatest ever centre forward.
Did he play in Italy as well?
Not sure but he looked like he ate a lot of pasta. Large by name, large by size.
Probably one of my favorite posts on this forum ever.
Quote from: BigbadBillyMcKinley on May 15, 2014, 12:20:47 PM
Quote from: the nutflush on May 15, 2014, 11:59:57 AM
Quote from: BigbadBillyMcKinley on May 15, 2014, 11:54:21 AM
Well Senderos has proven most wrong by playing well in italy. But then I guess that doesnt count. And how was ruiz poo? He was booed off the pitch by his own fans. Not gonna fill him with confidence. The bloke is class but, like a lot of imports, needs a while to settle into the pace of the football over here. Henry didnt bang them in for a while and look how poo he turned out. Whos to say Ruiz wouldnt have turned out similar (notice I said similar and not the same!).
Booing your own players and team is a big big bare of mine.
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Really? Now you're comparing Ruiz to Henry? Mate you're just making yourself look sillier with every post. Ruiz was total poo and you cant deny it. If he wasn't so poo he would have been starting for us till the end of the season. But he wasn't because he was totally poo and everyone else except Jol and apparently yourself knew it.
No, my point on Ruiz was, he wasn't given a chance to prove himself in england. Hes a very very good player, perhaps if he was cheaper he'd have been given a chance yeah? Same with Mitroglu. How can anyone say hes poor when hes hardly played? Give him a season at least. If he plays badly and scores less than 15 goals next year then I'll agree.
Regarding senderos, an expert at the club also got rid of aaron hughes, argueably our best defender for many season. A very much unsung hero, a player who got hangeland out of trouble more often than not. Call him the Carvalho of Fulham. He went and we conseeded more goals.
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Ruiz had plenty of opportunities during his time at Fulham. He just doesn't have it and we wasted a big pile of money on him. I will agree that getting rid of Hughes was a shocking mistake. Senderos was way more poo than Hughes. Hangeland turned out to be just as poo. Amorebieta was found to be pure poo. Riise poo and Riether had a poo season. I wouldn't be sad to see any of these guys go as we need a good cleanout.
Quote from: BigbadBillyMcKinley on May 15, 2014, 12:20:47 PM
Quote from: the nutflush on May 15, 2014, 11:59:57 AM
Quote from: BigbadBillyMcKinley on May 15, 2014, 11:54:21 AM
Well Senderos has proven most wrong by playing well in italy. But then I guess that doesnt count. And how was ruiz poo? He was booed off the pitch by his own fans. Not gonna fill him with confidence. The bloke is class but, like a lot of imports, needs a while to settle into the pace of the football over here. Henry didnt bang them in for a while and look how poo he turned out. Whos to say Ruiz wouldnt have turned out similar (notice I said similar and not the same!).
Booing your own players and team is a big big bare of mine.
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Really? Now you're comparing Ruiz to Henry? Mate you're just making yourself look sillier with every post. Ruiz was total poo and you cant deny it. If he wasn't so poo he would have been starting for us till the end of the season. But he wasn't because he was totally poo and everyone else except Jol and apparently yourself knew it.
No, my point on Ruiz was, he wasn't given a chance to prove himself in england. Hes a very very good player, perhaps if he was cheaper he'd have been given a chance yeah? Same with Mitroglu. How can anyone say hes poor when hes hardly played? Give him a season at least. If he plays badly and scores less than 15 goals next year then I'll agree.
Regarding senderos, an expert at the club also got rid of aaron hughes, argueably our best defender for many season. A very much unsung hero, a player who got hangeland out of trouble more often than not. Call him the Carvalho of Fulham. He went and we conseeded more goals.
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Ruiz has played almost 70 games for us, maybe not in the position I think he should have, but he's had plenty of chance to show what he can do. In flashes and a six week period he probably did. But in the end it has not been enough.
As for Hughes, I'm a massive fan, but even I could see that this season he seemed to have lost a yard and was not closing people down quick enough, or making those runs to intercept balls that he was great at. We did need to change the CB's and Burn should have played more once he came back.
Quote from: Lighthouse on May 15, 2014, 11:27:39 AM
:005: I hope this is a wind up. Well done if it is.
If it's not then he truely is a Spanner!!!!!!!!!
Ruiz isn't a winger tho. Hes a striker. Should be played up front as foil to a strong hold up forward. Similar to Andy Johnson (who I might add was alright!).
Ruiz and Mitroglu, in the championship......we'd score goals for fun.
Senderos and Burn at the back and we'd win all header (senderos could head the ball superbly!).
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The American centre back...LALAS.....played in Italy. Now if you want to talk about real pooo.....
Thing is, many, many players change clubs. It works out for some and not for others. Who knows what the formula is. Look at our own Danny Murphy. Floated around, couldn't get a regular game and Roy turned him into a star for us.
Quote from: BigbadBillyMcKinley on May 15, 2014, 12:40:22 PM
Ruiz isn't a winger tho. Hes a striker. Should be played up front as foil to a strong hold up forward. Similar to Andy Johnson (who I might add was alright!).
Ruiz and Mitroglu, in the championship......we'd score goals for fun.
Senderos and Burn at the back and we'd win all header (senderos could head the ball superbly!).
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Ruiz wouldn't last 2 minutes in the Championship because he is a lightweight and would bottle out of every challenge as for the bubble my mind is open on his ability as he has not been fit enough to play and as he has played in the Greek league which is about the same standard as the championship then there is a good chance he would do well.
As for Senderos the guy always gave his all but he was always an accident waiting to happen 065.gif
Quote from: BigbadBillyMcKinley on May 15, 2014, 12:40:22 PM
Ruiz isn't a winger tho. Hes a striker. Should be played up front as foil to a strong hold up forward. Similar to Andy Johnson (who I might add was alright!).
Ruiz and Mitroglu, in the championship......we'd score goals for fun.
Senderos and Burn at the back and we'd win all header (senderos could head the ball superbly!).
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Ruiz couldn't run out of sight in a week. Hes not a foil to anyone. Hes just poo and not premier league standard and he wouldn't play in the second tier anyway. I would rather have Andy Johnson back as a foil. I liked Andy Johnson too.
I agree, in part with Bill on this one (no, not the abuse towards others on this MB, or even his own belief that he knows better than others), but the basis of his argument.
I have often said that Berbatov was a great player, but not at Fulham, Senderos appears to be finding hid feet at Valencia, whereas he didn't shine at the Cottage. Marlet has always been slated as the worst of our players, but his scoring rate at Fulham was only a shade under his records at Red Star, Auxerre & Lyons. So what makes these players perform poorly for us, but do well at other clubs? I firmly believe its whether they fit in. You can see other examples outside of our own club: Carroll, prolific at Newcastle, poor at Liverpool, Torres, prolific at Liverpool, and not so much for Chelsea.
We have all called players rubbish, and its more of an emotional outburst than based on any professional opinion, there are very few, if any, on this MB that can call themselves professional when it comes to player management or scouting, so there's little point in attacking each others opinions, is there?
Quote from: jarv on May 15, 2014, 12:40:51 PM
The American centre back...LALAS.....played in Italy. Now if you want to talk about real pooo.....
Thing is, many, many players change clubs. It works out for some and not for others. Who knows what the formula is. Look at our own Danny Murphy. Floated around, couldn't get a regular game and Roy turned him into a star for us.
But what a beard Lalas had. Almost as good as Abel Xavier (who was a good player!).
My original point has become moot and "poo". I'll take back the bits of slagging off other people, it was ny frustration and emotions running away with me.
However; I still stand by my opinions on Senderos and Ruiz. I rate them both highly.
Refarding the point on Berbatov: at other clubs hes been at, whether it was Spurs of United, he had players around him that were good enough to cover him whenever he needed a little lie down (which was usually 87 minutes every game), however, he was without doubt the most technically gifted player I've seen in a white shirt. My favourite? No. That prize goes to McBride or Brevett. But best, yes.
I was excited when Scott Parker came, he was a genuinely good player. However, since hes come to us he is forever stuck on a turntable and forgets who he plays for. Same with Diarra (although Diarra was like Samuel L Jackson in Unbreakable!).
The whole post has gone completely off topic, I've even started rambling like a madman and forgotten what I was saying.
Bring back Super Micky Conroy!!
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Quote from: BigbadBillyMcKinley on May 15, 2014, 12:40:22 PM
Ruiz isn't a winger tho. Hes a striker. Should be played up front as foil to a strong hold up forward. Similar to Andy Johnson (who I might add was alright!).
Ruiz and Mitroglu, in the championship......we'd score goals for fun.
Senderos and Burn at the back and we'd win all header (senderos could head the ball superbly!).
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Ruiz and mitro up front in the championship, would score goals for fun? How do you know that?
IMO, informed or uninformed depending on your prejudice and what you may or may not constitute as a valid opinion, would be the biggest disaster since the titanic thought it was sailing in the Caribbean seas. Come on, in two years ruiz barely had a good game, couldn't keep up with the pace, got knocked off the ball and was totally out of his depth against the mighty Burton Albion where he failed to score a spot kick!
Mitro, who I have had the misfortune to see twice for us is either totally unfit OR is a con man, OR a combination of both and if he miraculously turns out for greece in the world cup then we know he was certainly a con man.
To think either of these 'lightweights' could successfully lead the line for us in the very physical demanding reaches of the Championship is frankly bizarre.
Of course you may think I am totally unqualified to comment thus, you may feel you are totally qualified to make your unusal assumption but for me I would put my trust in the younger players like woodrow who has shown appetite and talent whenever I have seen him.
Quote from: BigbadBillyMcKinley on May 15, 2014, 11:12:08 AM
When are all you plastic, "knowitall" fans, who actually know {very little} all about football or anything to do with running a club etc, going to leave this board?
It winds me up reading posts with people saying "sell Mitroglu" because you've never seen him play regularly or "buy this player" (ironically, after not seeing them play regularly!).
You've managed to hound Ruiz and Senderos out the club; both of whom are international, world cup playing players. We could have done with Senderos in the team this season, he would have easily been our best defender (and yes I'm being serious!). Senderos made the odd mistake and people jumped down his throat. But Hangeland made more and so did all the others.
It's also been suggested that we swap Mitroglu, a Champions League experienced, high scoring striker, for players who has played well for a season in the Championship. How the hell does that equate to a good bit of business?
These are also the same people who slag off MAF for under investing in the team. Yes, perhaps he did, but he has left us in a place we should be incredibly grateful for. Look at the youth set up we have, the stadium and the lack of debt. All things that are more important now we have dropped divisions. Imagine he hadn't invested that and Kahn had to pump money into players and infrastructure? I know which I'd have chosen. He has also stated that he will spend whatever it takes to get us back up. At my reckoning, it could be up to £70 million (I say upto, because it's unlikely gonna be that much, but you get the idea!)
Please also remember; Felix Magath came in AFTER the january transfer window had closed, he was the third manager the players had been made to work with in a season. He had to find the best team and position for his players, meaning he had a very limited window of opportunity to experiment etc. This is a very experienced manager and ex player. As a player, he lost twice in the World Cup final with West Germany, and scored the only goal (which was an absolute screamer) in the Champions League final. He's been there, done that and effectively got the t-shirt.
So, until you can show me the proof that you know more about business, running a football club, playing or managing a team, please stop with the negativity. The team and club as a whole need our support, through thick and thin. Not to have a few numpties shouting and booing from the stands when we lose a game or don't go up on the first attempt.
Fulham are and always will be in my heart. I will follow and love them (and I have been there before) if we were playing Corintian Casuals on a damp saturday afternoon. :048:
** swearing
So no opinions allowed on our players, manager or chairman? And we're also not permitted to be disappointed/negative at the fact we've been relegated??? Nice one, and probably the end of this forum if you have your way fp.gif
Quote from: the nutflush on May 15, 2014, 11:47:34 AM
This guy has always had the biggest man crush on Senderos. He was a bigger disaster than any of our other poor excuses for defenders mate. One or two mistakes? How many games have you watched in the past few years. He cost us countless games with his lack of pace, finesse and brains.
And as for Ruiz I don't know where to start.
So there you go that's my opinion.
Tosh...Senderos diff class to any of them.
Dont know what games you bn watching but Hangleland has been crap.
I believe was always made to look better by the positional sense
and covering of Hughes..
Quote from: cmg on May 15, 2014, 11:48:32 AM
I am in 100% agreement with BBBMcK and his Austenesque delivery.....But then I know nothing of business or running a football club and very little more about playing and managing - so I am almost certainly 100% wrong.
Well played sir. Well played. :Haynes The Maestro:
feel i have to jump in now...
I for one was a huge Ruiz fan, note the "was".
I love the forgien signings more than some, and a costa rican at fulham with all the skills ticked the boxes of flair and silky skills. A huge deadline transfer day purchase whetted my appitite for the forthcoming season, and boy was i dissapointed.
i wanted him to succeed so much, so, when Jol went on the costa rican tour, i thought this will ignite him this season,watch this space!!!
Nothing..he was very very lightweight and crumbled far too easy for my liking, he has skill, and some nice touches but for the price tag..poor.
He is playing in the best league in the world and has been found out, the dutch league, spanish and italian is alot slower and more time on the ball thats why it suits him.
I dont want to lose ruiz as i still want him to suceed and maybe under felix he can man him up but as it stands there is alot of work to do. 049:gif
Ruiz had plenty of opportunities during his time at Fulham. He just doesn't have it and we wasted a big pile of money on him. I will agree that getting rid of Hughes was a shocking mistake. Senderos was way more poo than Hughes. Hangeland turned out to be just as poo. Amorebieta was found to be pure poo. Riise poo and Riether had a poo season. I wouldn't be sad to see any of these guys go as we need a good cleanout.
[/quote]
I thought Valencia was in Spain ? (except of course the one at ManUtd)
Teacher: "Good morning children, and welcome to your first day in the 'big school.
Now that you are a year older there wil be no more BAA BAA sheep
no MOO cows and no WOOF WOOF's"
Can anyone give me another example of adult speak ? Yes Bryan"
"Winnie the Sh*t Miss"
Quote from: Lighthouse on May 15, 2014, 11:27:39 AM
:005: I hope this is a wind up. Well done if it is.
I agree this is a very well crafted wind up.
I was wondering, is FOF the EPL of wind up forums or just a training ground?
oh opinions what a dilemma, I am so confused, players I thought were ok apparently not, players I thought were not ok apparently are, I find it so hard that I am not allowed to make up my own mind. What do we do now?
Quote from: alfie on May 15, 2014, 05:14:08 PM
oh opinions what a dilemma, I am so confused, players I thought were ok apparently not, players I thought were not ok apparently are, I find it so hard that I am not allowed to make up my own mind. What do we do now?
I can't advise you, you'll just have to make up your own mind
I'd be happy to direct everyone's opinion for a small fee. With age comes wisdom or foolishness. I forget which. 092.gif
The management of FFC clearly know nothing about running a football team either - and they certainly have given their opinions - to the detriment of all the supporters
apparently the OP has played professional football or something, he has the most correct opinion
Senderos was a dedicated player but he wasn't good enough. Ruiz is a good player but not for the Premier League. He was so lightweight it's unbelievable. He had plenty of time to adapt to English football but he never tried hard enough. He just needed to grow a pair and never could. He would be even worse in the Championship in my opinion. I really don't care about him anymore. I wish Senderos all the best as he was likable. I just don't like Ruiz. He never tried to help us.
As for the Greek, he should be given a chance. Where are all these people you speak of saying how he should be sold. It wouldn't make any sense.
Corinthian Casuals, there's a name from the past. I remember playing against them in a quarter final in 74 when they were still in the isthmian league. Although I agree with much of what you say I can see others have a different point of view and all of us have our moments of manager, its what all fans do even if I think some of them must be delusional :021:
Senderos was a good player in a bad formation with teammates who didn't appear to communicate with or cover for one another in the back. He was often left alone, exposed, with no cover. At times he played very well indeed. And I'd take him back into the starting lineup right now. He covered a lot of territory. He got in on offense. He never stopped hustling. He never quit. He never phoned it in. And his one real crime was wearing his heart on his sleeve, like a mime in a football jersey. Some players just look ungainly, but he wasn't. And he left us for a far better team, which ought to tell you something about how the rest of the world viewed him. He's a lightning rod player who divides fans into pro and con with strong opinions. Did he make mistakes? Sure he did. So did the entire team. But when he did it, people tended (or wanted) to notice. But, then, defenders making mistakes get more attention than mids or forwards doing so... I watched players like Hangeland play consistently poorly this season, yet they didn't get one tenth of the negative comments that were leveled at Senderos.
Quote from: Forever Fulham on May 15, 2014, 10:28:32 PM
Senderos was a good player in a bad formation with teammates who didn't appear to communicate with or cover for one another in the back. He was often left alone, exposed, with no cover. At times he played very well indeed. And I'd take him back into the starting lineup right now. He covered a lot of territory. He got in on offense. He never stopped hustling. He never quit. He never phoned it in. And his one real crime was wearing his heart on his sleeve, like a mime in a football jersey. Some players just look ungainly, but he wasn't. And he left us for a far better team, which ought to tell you something about how the rest of the world viewed him. He's a lightning rod player who divides fans into pro and con with strong opinions. Did he make mistakes? Sure he did. So did the entire team. But when he did it, people tended (or wanted) to notice. But, then, defenders making mistakes get more attention than mids or forwards doing so... I watched players like Hangeland play consistently poorly this season, yet they didn't get one tenth of the negative comments that were leveled at Senderos.
I disagree. I think Hangeland got slagged off quite a lot this season. Also, the "rest of the world" views Senderos as a pretty poor player. Valencia fans didn't want him.
Quote from: Blanco on May 15, 2014, 10:39:38 PM
Quote from: Forever Fulham on May 15, 2014, 10:28:32 PM
Senderos was a good player in a bad formation with teammates who didn't appear to communicate with or cover for one another in the back. He was often left alone, exposed, with no cover. At times he played very well indeed. And I'd take him back into the starting lineup right now. He covered a lot of territory. He got in on offense. He never stopped hustling. He never quit. He never phoned it in. And his one real crime was wearing his heart on his sleeve, like a mime in a football jersey. Some players just look ungainly, but he wasn't. And he left us for a far better team, which ought to tell you something about how the rest of the world viewed him. He's a lightning rod player who divides fans into pro and con with strong opinions. Did he make mistakes? Sure he did. So did the entire team. But when he did it, people tended (or wanted) to notice. But, then, defenders making mistakes get more attention than mids or forwards doing so... I watched players like Hangeland play consistently poorly this season, yet they didn't get one tenth of the negative comments that were leveled at Senderos.
I disagree. I think Hangeland got slagged off quite a lot this season. Also, the "rest of the world" views Senderos as a pretty poor player. Valencia fans didn't want him.
I don't want to get into a back and forth with you, Blanco. It's a zero sum game. I like your posts and respect your opinion but we'll just have to agree to disagree. There is one thing your wrote, though, that I want to address: "Valencia fans didn't want him." That sentence was written to impart the impression that all or most Valencia fans didn't want him. You have no evidence of that. As to Valencia fans not wanting him, name one club where there aren't some fans who post negative thoughts about incoming players. Some fans doesn't equal all or most fans. Also, unhappy people tend to post their feeling more than contented ones, so I wouldn't put too much stock in the postings of those that didn't want him.
I really love Senderos, as a person. He tries hard, but his is very error prone. And like you said Hangeland isn't error free, but people have hardly been covering him in glory on here have they? I was happy to Senderos go, but I would also be happy for our whole defence to go too.
On MAF, I can't thank him enough for what he did with us, but had he decided to invest in under 30 year olds we probably wouldn't be in this situation.
Ruiz has been given his chance, I don't agree with the booing, and he has been a huge let down. The Championship is a very hard physical league, which I feel Ruiz would be battered in.
I am one of the people who think Mitroglou will leave. I think this because, he's a Champions League goalscorer, why would he stay with us? Also I feel why risk money on him when with that money we could buy someone who we know will score 20-30 goals with the money we get from him?
Quote from: BigbadBillyMcKinley on May 15, 2014, 11:12:08 AM
When are all you plastic, "knowitall" fans, who actually know {very little} all about football or anything to do with running a club etc, going to leave this board?
It winds me up reading posts with people saying "sell Mitroglu" because you've never seen him play regularly or "buy this player" (ironically, after not seeing them play regularly!).
You've managed to hound Ruiz and Senderos out the club; both of whom are international, world cup playing players. We could have done with Senderos in the team this season, he would have easily been our best defender (and yes I'm being serious!). Senderos made the odd mistake and people jumped down his throat. But Hangeland made more and so did all the others.
It's also been suggested that we swap Mitroglu, a Champions League experienced, high scoring striker, for players who has played well for a season in the Championship. How the hell does that equate to a good bit of business?
These are also the same people who slag off MAF for under investing in the team. Yes, perhaps he did, but he has left us in a place we should be incredibly grateful for. Look at the youth set up we have, the stadium and the lack of debt. All things that are more important now we have dropped divisions. Imagine he hadn't invested that and Kahn had to pump money into players and infrastructure? I know which I'd have chosen. He has also stated that he will spend whatever it takes to get us back up. At my reckoning, it could be up to £70 million (I say upto, because it's unlikely gonna be that much, but you get the idea!)
Please also remember; Felix Magath came in AFTER the january transfer window had closed, he was the third manager the players had been made to work with in a season. He had to find the best team and position for his players, meaning he had a very limited window of opportunity to experiment etc. This is a very experienced manager and ex player. As a player, he lost twice in the World Cup final with West Germany, and scored the only goal (which was an absolute screamer) in the Champions League final. He's been there, done that and effectively got the t-shirt.
So, until you can show me the proof that you know more about business, running a football club, playing or managing a team, please stop with the negativity. The team and club as a whole need our support, through thick and thin. Not to have a few numpties shouting and booing from the stands when we lose a game or don't go up on the first attempt.
Fulham are and always will be in my heart. I will follow and love them (and I have been there before) if we were playing Corintian Casuals on a damp saturday afternoon. :048:
** swearing
Senderos was pony, one of the worst players i've ever seen play football he gave away foul throws and had no composure. I watch him and wonder why i never made it pro.
Dear Bigbadbilly
If you think Hangeland has made more mistakes than Senderos, then it is you that knows absolutely nothing about football. Sign off now. Follow "One Direction" - they will match your intellect and understanding of football.
Martin Jol knows about football :54:
Senderos incites so much passion!
Its a shame as he's a nice guy and very clever. Just wasn't good enough I'm afraid but neither are Hangeland or Amorebieta. Made a good decision to leave he did!
In my humble opinion (did I get that right?)
1. So if you truly believe that fans can push and influence a player leaving then why is Parker still here? Mind you I like the guy and his work ethic, I just think he's been poo this season.
2. A lot of foreign players come to the PL because it's the greatest proving ground in the world for top players. Some adjust and do well. Many don't and move on to other leagues. Several go to other leagues and do pretty well. Ergo Ruiz and Senderos. Remember those players are paid a lot of money. If they can't prove themselves in the first season how many more should they be given? Two, three, four?
3. I also know nothing of business or running a football club. FACT
Quote from: paddyuksw6 on May 15, 2014, 11:45:22 PM
Senderos was pony, one of the worst players i've ever seen play football he gave away foul throws and had no composure. I watch him and wonder why i never made it pro.
I have no idea how bad a player you might have been (I was a pretty bad centre-half myself) but it is maybe instructive to consider how many people have made what seems to be the terrible error of thinking that Philippe Senderos could play this game:
Premier League managers (including Mssrs Wenger and Hodgson) - 143 times
Serie A managers (Sig. Ancelotti) - 14 times
La Liga managersd (Sen. Pizzi) - 5 times to date
National team managers (Mssrs |Kuhn, Hitzfeld, Petkovic) 52 times to date
Amazing that so many could repeat the same mistake. Fortunately we know so much more than these people.
I just know how proud I would be to have been such a bad player as to be asked to represent my country over 50 times.
065.gif
Quote from: cmg on May 16, 2014, 10:37:15 AM
Quote from: paddyuksw6 on May 15, 2014, 11:45:22 PM
Senderos was pony, one of the worst players i've ever seen play football he gave away foul throws and had no composure. I watch him and wonder why i never made it pro.
I have no idea how bad a player you might have been (I was a pretty bad centre-half myself) but it is maybe instructive to consider how many people have made what seems to be the terrible error of thinking that Philippe Senderos could play this game:
Premier League managers (including Mssrs Wenger and Hodgson) - 143 times
Serie A managers (Sig. Ancelotti) - 14 times
La Liga managersd (Sen. Pizzi) - 5 times to date
National team managers (Mssrs |Kuhn, Hitzfeld, Petkovic) 52 times to date
Amazing that so many could repeat the same mistake. Fortunately we know so much more than these people.
I just know how proud I would be to have been such a bad player as to be asked to represent my country over 50 times.
If I had seen this thread earlier I would have removed it from the off. Please cut the swearing folks or your posts will be removed or edited.