There has been some interesting discussion on here recently about political correctness and then I just read the thread from a Cardiff fan in which one of our readers asked that Cottagers be changed in his FFC article to Whites. The reason is obvious, but are we bowing to political correctness by not using our old nickname just because it has unfortunate connotations? I rather like the naivety of "Cottagers" but on the other hand it opens us up to some heavyhanded "wit" from opposition fans. Just interested in your thoughts on tradition vs change. Plus there is not much to complain or argue about right now!
Both, but definitely still the cottagers, it's funny! It perfectly sums up being a Fulham fan in many ways! There's loads of teams that call themselves the whites, but only one cottagers!
I also saw this get pointed out earlier and it also made me think.... our nickname is the cottagers although our fans often talk about us being the whites, which is also a theme in one of our chants. I think our member pointed it out as it probably flowed better in the article. I actually have no problem with the cottagers, it is who we are and is part of our history, but totally understand why some people want us to distinguish it.
Other teams and the media refer to us as the cottagers, yet the fans refer to Fulham as the whites. Is there actually a team nicknamed the whites? Preston?
"Cottagers" isn't used that way in the US -- I had no idea of the connotation until just now, when I had to google it. Language!
Leeds, spurs, I know they.re liliwhites, but they still sing come on you whites, Real Madrid... Sure there's more
It's more to do with what Fulham fans feel more comfortable with than anything to do with pc.
The Cottagers was our official nickname when every team had one.
Now old nicknames are often forgotten as fans use more modern or glamorous sounding ones-and these are the nicknames that clubs are known by.
I remember when Palace were officially The Glaziers, and their club badge was of the Crystal Palace, at a time when many of their fans still remembered it before it burned down in the war, but everyone knows them now as the Eagles-and that is also their badge.
At Fulham when have you ever heard anyone shout 'come on you Cottagers' ?-but I think media still remember and use the word because we are so associated with the Cottage, which is an integral part of our identity.
Myself -I'm not bothered by us being referred to by that monicker, and it does have a charm, as well as nudge, wink connotations.
Quote from: Deanothefulhamfan on October 03, 2014, 06:20:51 AM
I also saw this get pointed out earlier and it also made me think.... our nickname is the cottagers although our fans often talk about us being the whites, which is also a theme in one of our chants. I think our member pointed it out as it probably flowed better in the article. I actually have no problem with the cottagers, it is who we are and is part of our history, but totally understand why some people want us to distinguish it.
Other teams and the media refer to us as the cottagers, yet the fans refer to Fulham as the whites. Is there actually a team nicknamed the whites? Preston?
Preston are the Lilywhites.
Spurs sing more about spurs as appose to the whites / lilywhites.
Reading used to be called !The Biscuit Men!
I have often mulled this one over - there is no song we sing that promotes us or identifies us as being The Cottagers. I racked my brain for a song that could be suitable and only come up with "Cottagers" to the tune of "we are Leeds" or "P-N-E".
May be one for Ed to get going as he was instrumental in creating "We are the white, we are the whites" which is one I backed from the off regardless of PC!
Where's our historians ?
Our families Fulham heritage stretches back to 1909.......never ever heard The Cottagers mentioned by parents, uncles, brothers or anyone else whilst growing up.
We were always The Lillywhites around our family and friends.
Where did The Cottagers nickname originate.... Some football magazine no doubt.
Always found it distasteful even before I discovered its connotations!
Fernhurst is right, we were always known as the Lilywhites which over time was shortened to The Whites. We were never called The Cottagers, which is a fairly recent name and quite honestly, you never hear it called out at home games.
I do remember it as the 'official' nickname when I first started supporting Fulham in the early 60's -but who decides on these nicknames? - I have never, ever heard a single Fulham fan using it, or anyone outside of the media.
My old man always called us the lillywhites.
Quote from: Peabody on October 03, 2014, 08:07:31 AM
Fernhurst is right, we were always known as the Lilywhites which over time was shortened to The Whites. We were never called The Cottagers, which is a fairly recent name and quite honestly, you never hear it called out at home games.
I am not so sure. I go back to the late 50's as a supporter (at around the age of 7) and used to go with my father and his brothers who all lived in Fulham, Putney and Hammersmith. I am trying to recall whether they ever talked about us as the Cottagers. I certainly don't agree that it is a relatively new nickname, I was definitely aware of it decades ago so I am afraid I disagree with you on that. However it is also true that one never hears it at home games, at least not for a long time now. I just can't recall whether it was ever in common usage?
Quote from: Peabody on October 03, 2014, 08:07:31 AM
Fernhurst is right, we were always known as the Lilywhites which over time was shortened to The Whites. We were never called The Cottagers, which is a fairly recent name and quite honestly, you never hear it called out at home games.
Its not recent Mr P, The Cottagers is the official nickname of the club from way back.
My late Dad always referred to Fulham as The Cottagers.
I took my black friend to the Cottage and we were both embarrassed and angry at the use of "whites" as in come on you Whites. Surely now that we are in the 21st century we can forget this imperialistic nonsense and move on?
Martin is this a wind up attempt, with all the PC talk on here lately I am not sure if you are being serious?
Cottagers is fine. It just doesn't lend itself to chants. Ransacking the past to make it more acceptable to present-day sensibilities is a pointless pursuit. I suppose this is why Shrewsbury's ground is now the New Meadow and not Gay Meadow. It's a slippery slope.
Quote from: Deanothefulhamfan on October 03, 2014, 08:56:42 AM
Martin is this a wind up attempt, with all the PC talk on here lately I am not sure if you are being serious?
Why oh why is "Cottagers" not PC? Surely we now all embrace practices which used to be considered uncouth or bawdy? It is the imperialistic stereotyping and racial superiority that should and will be banned in the future. Come on Fulham this is 2014 after all.
Quote from: Neil D on October 03, 2014, 09:06:37 AM
Cottagers is fine.
No it is not fine, It's the tag The Evening Standard gave us when they were taking the P***
Are we sheep ??? ............Bahhhhhhhhhhhh !!!
Ask the ModFather .
We are the Whites .....We are the Whites .........We are We are we are the Whitessssssssss
Why oh why is "Cottagers" not PC? Surely we now all embrace practices which used to be considered uncouth or bawdy? It is the imperialistic stereotyping and racial superiority that should and will be banned in the future. Come on Fulham this is 2014 after all.
As Deano says surely your comments are a wind up?! You were embarrassed by the crowd singing "Come on you Whites" when they are clearly referring to the players on the pitch in our colours. I suppose you also object to using words like "blackboard"!
As far as the actual thread goes my late Dad, born in 1919, always referred to us as The Lilywhites!
up until 3 games ago I thought our nickname was going to change to the Shites.
But surely a nickname is something that can change over time, for example one of your friends put on weight he will start being know as "Fat Lad"
The Official Programme....sorry, "Matchday Magazine"......editorial section was called "The Cottagers' Journal" in the '50's and '60's, so the nickname is well established. "Whites", as has been said though is easier to shout than the multisyllabic "Cottagers", so keeps favour with most.
Leave aside all oversensitive thoughts about political correctness..........
Those flags that used to flutter in the breeze on the Thames side terrace.....they used to look quite gay, didn't they?
As has been mentioned few nicknames are used that much by fans any more. Toffees, Red Devils are well known but only used as advertising slogans not by fans. My Dad never used the term Cottagers and nor did I. We are simply The Whites and that is the reason changing the colour of the shirt means more to us fans than it logically should do.
Quote from: Lighthouse on October 03, 2014, 10:13:14 AM
As has been mentioned few nicknames are used that much by fans any more. Toffees, Red Devils are well known but only used as advertising slogans not by fans. My Dad never used the term Cottagers and nor did I. We are simply The Whites and that is the reason changing the colour of the shirt means more to us fans than it logically should do.
Totally agree about the symbolism of the white shirt. Any other colour 'adornment' cheapens the look. Perhaps a silken pattern in the white, but that's about as far as it should go.
Quote from: Martinsback on October 03, 2014, 09:09:50 AM
Quote from: Deanothefulhamfan on October 03, 2014, 08:56:42 AM
Martin is this a wind up attempt, with all the PC talk on here lately I am not sure if you are being serious?
Why oh why is "Cottagers" not PC? Surely we now all embrace practices which used to be considered uncouth or bawdy? It is the imperialistic stereotyping and racial superiority that should and will be banned in the future. Come on Fulham this is 2014 after all.
You really did have a bad upbringing and it has seriously affected you, sad
Quote from: Martinsback on October 03, 2014, 08:52:27 AM
I took my black friend to the Cottage and we were both embarrassed and angry at the use of "whites" as in come on you Whites. Surely now that we are in the 21st century we can forget this imperialistic nonsense and move on?
What a plonker!
I thought we were the LillieWhites, as in Lillie Road.
Quote from: Two Ton Ted on October 03, 2014, 10:23:51 AM
I thought we were the LillieWhites, as in Lillie Road.
That is my understanding too Ted
When I first started, back in the 1940's, they all used to shout "come on you Lilleywhites". But I suppose that was as relevant to all teams that played in white shirts. Teams like Derby, Tottenham, PNE and though they had black collars and cuffs, Notts County, had white shirts.
Quote from: Martinsback on October 03, 2014, 09:09:50 AM
Quote from: Deanothefulhamfan on October 03, 2014, 08:56:42 AM
Martin is this a wind up attempt, with all the PC talk on here lately I am not sure if you are being serious?
Why oh why is "Cottagers" not PC? Surely we now all embrace practices which used to be considered uncouth or bawdy? It is the imperialistic stereotyping and racial superiority that should and will be banned in the future. Come on Fulham this is 2014 after all.
If this is serious I hope the kids have bubble wrap and ear muffs on them to sure they see no evil, speak no evil, hear no evil.
I hear use of the cottagers term, but never in chants. It's mostly popular with the media as well. Either doesn't entirely bother me, and why should it? Man United often refer to the reds, and other teams refer to shirt colour.
Well, Scunthorpe and West Ham shout 'Come on the Iron' and Gooners shout 'Up the Arse' so I think 'Cottagers' is quite quaint and restrained.
I don't mind being called Steve or Stephen - in fact I rather like having an alter-ego.
I think 'third parties', i.e. mainly football reporters, will often use the term "the Cottagers" and I like that as it's unique to us and acknowledges both our heritage and our ground.
It was noticeable in "Thursday's Fulham Stuff" that, in a report of the game from a Bolton source, Bolton were referred to as 'the Whites' . . . and it threw me for a while !
We can always use the word "Fulham" !!
It's always been our "official" nickname but it's not been used by Fulham supporters in my lifetime.
I remember an away match at Southampton when George Best played, so probably 1977, a very old boy probably in his 80s croaking out "come on the Cottagers" and even then he seemed several generations out of time. It's memorable because it seemed so odd.
I prefer the cottagers over the unimaginative the whites anyday of the week. Obviously, you never use the first one and you can't lend it to chants, but still it's much more suggestive and intriguing about our club than the boring "whites".
We were always known as the lilywhites, I have books going back to the 1920's and it says Fulham football club Nickname "LILLYWHITES"
Quote from: Fulham 442 on October 03, 2014, 09:43:44 AM
Why oh why is "Cottagers" not PC? Surely we now all embrace practices which used to be considered uncouth or bawdy? It is the imperialistic stereotyping and racial superiority that should and will be banned in the future. Come on Fulham this is 2014 after all.
As Deano says surely your comments are a wind up?! You were embarrassed by the crowd singing "Come on you Whites" when they are clearly referring to the players on the pitch in our colours. I suppose you also object to using words like "blackboard"!
As far as the actual thread goes my late Dad, born in 1919, always referred to us as The Lilywhites!
Blackboard is outdated and has negative connotations we use a flip chart now as White Board indicates that the top tier of management of any organisation is of a certain colour which we are trying to do away with.
Quote from: epsomraver on October 03, 2014, 10:22:46 AM
Quote from: Martinsback on October 03, 2014, 08:52:27 AM
I took my black friend to the Cottage and we were both embarrassed and angry at the use of "whites" as in come on you Whites. Surely now that we are in the 21st century we can forget this imperialistic nonsense and move on?
What a plonker!
We can't legislate for other people's feelings can we. We all have the right to be offended.
I have a problem with Northampton. Towns nick name. The town is famous as shoemakers not shoe repairers so why is their nickname "the Cobblers" when it should be "the Cordwainers". Surely the FA and the. League should step in to insist that they change this nickname?
??????
SO IT'S .....................
COYC's COYC's COYC's COYC's COYC's COYC's COYC's COYC's COYC's COYC's COYC's COYC's COYC's COYC's
In FULHAM a complete record 1879-1987 by Dennis Turner and Alex White page 9.One of the "founders", H.D.Shrimpton,stated categorically in his "Foundation History of the Cottagers" that " the Fulham Football Club was founded in 1879 and NOT 1880 as sometimes published"
Do I look like I care what we call ourselves, as long as things are going well!
Neither term is used in anything but an affectionate way, whites could imply racist and cottagers is something my kids explained to me.
I think both terms are 100% OK and the thought police need to be eliminated.
I only realised what "cottaging" was after I'd created my username on here. Always referred to us as the Cottagers until I found these filthy swingers messaging me!
Quote from: JHaynes Paperboy on October 03, 2014, 11:55:10 AM
In FULHAM a complete record 1879-1987 by Dennis Turner and Alex White page 9.One of the "founders", H.D.Shrimpton,stated categorically in his "Foundation History of the Cottagers" that " the Fulham Football Club was founded in 1879 and NOT 1880 as sometimes published"
The new book is much more uncertain.
There seems to be no evidence prior to 1883 although the club was clearly in existence by then
Quote from: Woodlawn on October 03, 2014, 11:43:56 AM
We were always known as the lilywhites, I have books going back to the 1920's and it says Fulham football club Nickname "LILLYWHITES"
AT LAST........ Let's drop all this Cottaging marlarky..... Come on you Lillie's !!!
I like the Clyde FC one, ! THE BULLY WEE !
Jambo's for me
We have no songs or chants that reference "Cottagers".
Nobody I know who supports us calls us the Cottagers.
For me it has always been the whites.
Quote from: Martinsback on October 03, 2014, 09:09:50 AM
Quote from: Deanothefulhamfan on October 03, 2014, 08:56:42 AM
Martin is this a wind up attempt, with all the PC talk on here lately I am not sure if you are being serious?
Why oh why is "Cottagers" not PC? Surely we now all embrace practices which used to be considered uncouth or bawdy? It is the imperialistic stereotyping and racial superiority that should and will be banned in the future. Come on Fulham this is 2014 after all.
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Come on you lillywhites ! that is what we always called our 049:gif team .
Cottagers -no fulham fan has ever called the team the cottagers .
Our nickname has been 'The Cottagers' for as long as I can remember - more than 50 years. But years ago we were always called 'The Lilywhites' when cheering the team on. Room for both names it seems to me.
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I don't care what we're called although there's a certain style about getting behind the Cottagers and/or the Lillywhites. Even if we are the butt of the opposition's jokes, we just smile knowingly without being smug. After all, no other club has a fully-grown cottage on the edge of its pitch.
Nogood "cottage industry that, isit" Boyo
Quote from: NogoodBoyo on October 03, 2014, 07:33:50 PM
I don't care what we're called although there's a certain style about getting behind the Cottagers and/or the Lillywhites. Even if we are the butt of the opposition's jokes, we just smile knowingly without being smug. After all, no other club has a fully-grown cottage on the edge of its pitch.
Nogood "cottage industry that, isit" Boyo
Ah but Everton have a full blown Chapel in the corner of their ground. So, should they stop being called The Toffees?
It's interesting hearing all the long time supporters comments on here as I like hearing about the clubs history. I did not know that the whites came from Lily Lane.
Since I started supporting FFC I have always known that our nickname was the Cottagers. Never knew it could mean anything else until today. I've also known us to be called the Whites but that was only because of our choice in shirt colors not because of race superiority. If that was the case then why on earth would Rod or Dembele want to play for us.
This PC thing is getting way out of hand. I heard the other day on the radio that the movie Gone with the Wind is no longer PC to see. That most people under the age of 30 have never seen it due to it having a rape scene and slaves. My God people get over yourselves. Time to grow up and move on.
That's my rant for the day :048:
I bought Gone with the Wind a few months ago and have only watched half of it as got a bit bored. I will watch the rest at some point.
If you are watching something in your home that isn't particularly PC, eg in my case the box set and movie of the Inbetweeners whem Mr B was away, does it matter. Doubt if the inbetweeners is PC
Does it matter? I for one couldn't give two hoots if there are connotations or not (as you can see from my name on here). Whites, cottagers, lilywhites - it is still the club (and fans) I love.
I seem to recall the 'Cottagers' tag from way back when I was in shorts as well, so the idea it is 'recent' (?) does seem a little wayward.
I did find a reference that claims the name originated as far back as 1908 under Bradshaw, but without a definite confirmation from a better source that cannot be taken as conclusive (2 or three suitable references is the only evidence I would accept absolutely). I do further digging into my history books.
OK then, quick find and the Sunday Pictorial (Sunday Mirror Newspaper) has a report dated Jan 26, 1936, on the Fulham 5 Black[pool 2 match, by Ted Hufton, with the following text ...
" Perry, scoring four goals in succession, made this match a personal triumph, but it was no one man victory that Fulham obtained.
Team-work was the basis of the Cottagers' success - team work in which the defence as well the attack shared "
I'll get a pic of the article up as soon as I can find how.
So, possibly settles the initial dispute as to age, perhaps just down the personal preference now?
I think the nickname has always been the cottagers ,but that comes from the club , not the supporters . I have a couple of handbooks /monthly mags from the sixties called "Cottage Pie ". News from inside the cottage . "You liliewhites" comes from the days of rosettes and rattles ,and when you could walk from the putney End to the Hammersmith end along the terraces ,inside our ground, great days gone by . Sorry getting all teary eyed !
Quote from: colinwhite on October 03, 2014, 10:34:07 PM
I think the nickname has always been the cottagers ,but that comes from the club , not the supporters . I have a couple of handbooks /monthly mags from the sixties called "Cottage Pie ". News from inside the cottage . "You liliewhites" comes from the days of rosettes and rattles ,and when you could walk from the putney End to the Hammersmith end along the terraces ,inside our ground, great days gone by . Sorry getting all teary eyed !
I remember making a rattle during school woodworking classes, I made a double-rattle, painted it black and white. Nostalgia helps sometimes colin.
Agreed , you can't beat a bit of nostalgia . I was looking through some old programmes the other day from the sixties . We had the first colour illustrated programme in the football league !
Remember the green cover with Barrett,Earle and Conway ( my favorite player of the day )?
Magic !
As a final word on the subject (you must be joking!) ....the name Cottagers has probably lost its currency in the same way that "The Pensioners" has for our friends down the road. Unfashionable for chants, etc., but still used by commentators to distinguish us from other "Whites", (unlike the tag for Chelsea, perhaps because of its age connotation for them).