I have been around for a long time, including the Fulham Park Rangers fiasco. A long time ago Derby fans robbed us us, by their behaviour, of promotion. Is it not time that we forgave them and joined them in their fight to survive. In fact, it wasn't them that lost us promo, it was the fact that they scored and we didn't. However, they did prevent us from playing the full game.
Those of us who were around then, just think back to how we felt then. The thought that there would be no Derby is, as we know very very upsetting.
Quote from: Peabody on January 26, 2022, 08:57:39 AM
I have been around for a long time, including the Fulham Park Rangers fiasco. A long time ago Derby fans robbed us us, by their behaviour, of promotion. Is it not time that we forgave them and joined them in their fight to survive. In fact, it wasn't them that lost us promo, it was the fact that they scored and we didn't. However, they did prevent us from playing the full game.
Those of us who were around then, just think back to how we felt then. The thought that there would be no Derby is, as we know very very upsetting.
Very well said Peabody - extremely magnanimous of you and a credit to our supporters and club
Did we not lay the ghost of '83 to rest by beating them in the Playoffs on our way to promotion?
Quote from: Peabody on January 26, 2022, 08:57:39 AM
I have been around for a long time, including the Fulham Park Rangers fiasco. A long time ago Derby fans robbed us us, by their behaviour, of promotion. Is it not time that we forgave them and joined them in their fight to survive. In fact, it wasn't them that lost us promo, it was the fact that they scored and we didn't. However, they did prevent us from playing the full game.
Those of us who were around then, just think back to how we felt then. The thought that there would be no Derby is, as we know very very upsetting.
yep Peabody , nobody has been so vehement or carried a grudge like I have but even I am buckling a bit now for their plight .Their fans have had no say in what's happing ther or if they do it's counted for nothing.
Agree Peabody!!
Well said Peabody. This club cannot become another Bury because of useless ownership. It is always the supporters who suffer the most. As a neutral I really hope they survive.
Yes , I am with you Peabody. Before that terrible match which cost us promotion I always had great respect for Derby and their players.
Any one else old enough to remember the great Raich Carter.
I've never been, particularly , bothered by the Derby fans crowding the pitch that day, all those years ago.
Lets face it, we were, probably, not going to score two goals in the few minutes remaining.
Derby County is a great football club and we should all support them in their fight to survive. We've been there and it is a horrible experience, watching as the big beasts of corporate wealth circle around your club, looking to chop it up and devour it.
I'd like to see them stay up. They have a chance and if they do so it'll be a real achievement. As a Fulham fan, I've always been an underdog man.
Wonder what Robert Wilson's view of this is, I don't want them to go out of business but I will never forgive or forget them for that day.
I'm with you on this one Mr Peabody. Life is far too short to hold such grudges. What's the point? At the end of the day you have to take your hat off to Rooney who is doing a fantastic job with no resources, and the players are fighting for the survival of the club.
I hope they survive, for their fans. We have been in danger of dropping out of the league and for the fans it's heart breaking, the average guy in the street, who works and goes to see his team on a Saturday deserves more than the powers that be at Derby have served up.
Gone are the days of the businessman owning his local club. Football is now a business and subject to the ups and downs as is any other business. Badly run companies go out of business every day why should a football club be any different? Even well run companies fold for reasons beyond their control.
The need for instant success means clubs are borrowing more and more money, paying silly money for players and not paying HMRC. Maybe more clubs need to go out of business for those at the top of the game realise that things need to change. If ManUre went bust then I'm sure something would change immediately.
We are lucky that we have an owner with a silly amount of money who can afford to lose a few million and is investing in our future. Not all clubs are so lucky.
No club should be allowed to go out of existence
Yes but it shouldn't be down to luck.i find it hard to forgive what happened on that day all those years ago. But it is a completely different club these days. Derby were lucky then but most of those supporters probably don't even go to matches any more. The ones that do don't deserve this rubbish. Football is there to help the working person to take their mind off of real life problems at home and work
I don't like to see any football team in trouble. All teams, including non league, have supporters who love their team/club. Teams are an integral part of communities but unfortunately this problem keeps raising it's ugly head. Often caused by greedy or unscrupulous owners. (Ernie Clay!!!)
One piece of the jigsaw is probably the "fit and proper test" which I suspect is not fit for purpose.
Quote from: jarv on January 26, 2022, 01:44:01 PM
I don't like to see any football team in trouble. All teams, including non league, have supporters who love their team/club. Teams are an integral part of communities but unfortunately this problem keeps raising it's ugly head. Often caused by greedy or unscrupulous owners. (Ernie Clay!!!)
One piece of the jigsaw is probably the "fit and proper test" which I suspect is not fit for purpose.
+1
Quote from: f321ffc on January 26, 2022, 10:40:05 AM
Wonder what Robert Wilson's view of this is, I don't want them to go out of business but I will never forgive or forget them for that day.
Absolutely, penned by somebody that was actually there, like myself, if you weren't there that day it's virtually impossible for you to comment, a truly horrendous day that at times felt like you were fighting for your life,
**** Derby County and **** their supporters,
I hope their club survives but I hate to see Fulham supporters feeling sorry for them and showing pity, they are not entitled to that from us.
Well said Riversider, totally agree 100%.
No football fan should ever want another team to go bust, however, I'll be more than happy if they end up in league 2
Quote from: Mr K.Dilkington on January 26, 2022, 12:28:47 PM
No club should be allowed to go out of existence
However badly they are run? And who would bail them out, the tax payer? If that team from down the road had gone bust before the Russian oligarch with corrupt money bought them would anyone have cared? I wouldn't have.
I remember when Accrington Stanley went out of business mid season in 1960. Some very sad photographs of the Peel Park main stand. One of the first clubs to reform and battle its was back in the Football League by way of the football pyramid. One of the first results of other clubs I always look out for.
Personally I think it's just desserts with what is happening to them at the moment. I was not there on that day but my dad and grandad were and I have seen it on TV and it sounds exactly how Riversider has put it (horrendous). You reap what you sow in life and this has come back around to bite em on the arse big time. Would love to see them languush in league 2 for a few years.
I don't want to see any club disappear (even Derby) but as I was at that infamous game in the 80's I hope they go down to the none leagues and are forced to start again. At the end of the day they have broken rules!
I can remember Middlesbrough being deducted points in 1997 that relegated them, for not fulfilling one of their fixtures owing to more than half the squad being unavailable. The most vociferous complainant and supporter of the points deduction, was, Derby County. Given the Boro chairman is the same as was back then, the legal action they're now pursuing against Derby along with Wycombe does seem like what goes around, comes around.
Karma is a bitch. Take us for instance nearly out of business, merging with qpr but now we have a super rich owner. Derby on the other hand are getting long overdue payback.
I am not a great fan of Wayne Rooney but he has earned my respect in the way he has continued to battle against the odds and got the best out of a depleted side.
Quote from: Riversider on January 26, 2022, 02:10:36 PM
Quote from: f321ffc on January 26, 2022, 10:40:05 AM
Wonder what Robert Wilson's view of this is, I don't want them to go out of business but I will never forgive or forget them for that day.
Absolutely, penned by somebody that was actually there, like myself, if you weren't there that day it's virtually impossible for you to comment, a truly horrendous day that at times felt like you were fighting for your life,
**** Derby County and **** their supporters,
I hope their club survives but I hate to see Fulham supporters feeling sorry for them and showing pity, they are not entitled to that from us.
I go along with what you say for exactly the same reasons as i was there also, so i share your concerns, as you had to be there to know and suffer how shocking it actually was.
Therefore i am fresh out of mercy for Derby County, but despite that i would not want to see any English club go out of business.
A spell in the lower leagues with sanctions would suffice.
As is said if you stand by the banks of the river long enough, you will watch the bodies of your enemies float by.
Quote from: Ruislip Ray on January 26, 2022, 02:49:51 PM
Well said Riversider, totally agree 100%.
You only have to find the video of that day on you tube and the many recent comments from Derby fans celebrating those actions.
Well it goes on, 21 points deducted in stages, first 12, then 9, now this. They would be contenders for the play offs.
Had the Football League had the guts to apply its own regulations and restrictions relating to both crowd and player safety then the match should either have been abandoned or halted at the first encroachment onto the playing surface. But was there another agenda at work to finish all games at a similar time on that day? Yes, the Derby supporters were out of order and Fulham were the victims of that in ways that have nothing to do with encroachment but everything to do with level playing fields in all sports.
As far as karma goes we have a whole lot more money being thrown around doing no good and we now appear to have growing problems with supporter behaviour again. Isn't it all about having football authorities that are fit for purpose and not corrupt, dishonest corporate monstrosities who are also guilty of lining their own pockets with gold with a bias towards their own flavours of the moment? Derby are very much in the same boat as all other clubs outside the 'chosen ones'.
I don't envy Derby fans, wondering whether their club will even survive once all this is done, because of terrible decisions by their owners.
Boro and Wycombe are behaving poorly, the EFL aren't being honest from what I can see and the ones being punished are the fans. I think other clubs are planning ways to express their support, and I think we should too
Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
Quote from: St. Andrews White on January 28, 2022, 02:00:20 PM
I don't envy Derby fans, wondering whether their club will even survive once all this is done, because of terrible decisions by their owners.
Boro and Wycombe are behaving poorly, the EFL aren't being honest from what I can see and the ones being punished are the fans. I think other clubs are planning ways to express their support, and I think we should too
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You are right the fans do suffer when their club is punished with a points deduction but that's looking at the issue from a very narrow focus.
The basics are, despite the owner allegedly pumping millions into the club they failed to reach the promise land and were losing over 1 million £'s a month and couldn't pay their creditors.
Covid didn't help but the problems date back before the pandemic, 12 points deducted for entering administration & 9 for dodgy accounting and the owner are the EFL rules and you can't say the EFL have trown the book at them as there are various regulatory issues still outstanding.
The guilty owner leaves the club on the brink of survival but you think the EFL are being dishonest!
What about the owner, because he apologies to the fans is that's OK?
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on January 28, 2022, 03:00:52 PM
Quote from: St. Andrews White on January 28, 2022, 02:00:20 PM
I don't envy Derby fans, wondering whether their club will even survive once all this is done, because of terrible decisions by their owners.
Boro and Wycombe are behaving poorly, the EFL aren't being honest from what I can see and the ones being punished are the fans. I think other clubs are planning ways to express their support, and I think we should too
Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
You are right the fans do suffer when their club is punished with a points deduction but that's looking at the issue from a very narrow focus.
The basics are, despite the owner allegedly pumping millions into the club they failed to reach the promise land and were losing over 1 million £'s a month and couldn't pay their creditors.
Covid didn't help but the problems date back before the pandemic, 12 points deducted for entering administration & 9 for dodgy accounting and the owner are the EFL rules and you can't say the EFL have trown the book at them as there are various regulatory issues still outstanding.
The guilty owner leaves the club on the brink of survival but you think the EFL are being dishonest!
What about the owner, because he apologies to the fans is that's OK?
Of course Mel Morris was dishonest, he cooked the books and bet heavily on getting to the Prem and screwed the club when they failed to do so.
But from all I've heard, the EFL have handled this all very badly. Releasing contradictory statements, making up deadlines and then ignoring them, and failing to help remove the barriers to a prospective party from purchasing the club (mostly the legal claims I mentioned, and Mel Morris trying to keep hold of the ground). This, along with Bury and others, doesn't put the EFL in a good light at all and isn't exactly a narrow way of looking at it.
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I was at the Baseball Ground in '83 and it was a nasty experience. Not only the players, who had to contend with being jostled by the "fans" encroaching on the pitch, but for the supporters too given the violence during and after the match.
I have harboured a grudge against Derby ever since, and a disrespect for the FA for never having the balls to order a replay despite plenty of precedent for other abandoned matches being replayed.
Over the years the grudge has worn off - partly because of the passage of time, partly because I have friends now who follow Derby and I've been able to work it out of my system, and partly because of the situation they currently find themselves in.
Supporters are the ones who suffer when clubs are poorly ran - we know this only too well, in the dark days of Fulham Park Rangers, etc.
I wish them all the best, and also hats off to Wayne Rooney with what he is managing to do on a shoestring, this will be the making of him as a manager.
They are over 60 million in debt according to Sky in the last hour...Never known a Championship side to be that in debt.
Quote from: Riversider on January 26, 2022, 02:10:36 PM
Quote from: f321ffc on January 26, 2022, 10:40:05 AM
Wonder what Robert Wilson's view of this is, I don't want them to go out of business but I will never forgive or forget them for that day.
Absolutely, penned by somebody that was actually there, like myself, if you weren't there that day it's virtually impossible for you to comment, a truly horrendous day that at times felt like you were fighting for your life,
**** Derby County and **** their supporters,
I hope their club survives but I hate to see Fulham supporters feeling sorry for them and showing pity, they are not entitled to that from us.
I have to agree
Quote from: Dodger53 on January 28, 2022, 09:27:16 PM
Quote from: Riversider on January 26, 2022, 02:10:36 PM
Quote from: f321ffc on January 26, 2022, 10:40:05 AM
Wonder what Robert Wilson's view of this is, I don't want them to go out of business but I will never forgive or forget them for that day.
Absolutely, penned by somebody that was actually there, like myself, if you weren't there that day it's virtually impossible for you to comment, a truly horrendous day that at times felt like you were fighting for your life,
**** Derby County and **** their supporters,
I hope their club survives but I hate to see Fulham supporters feeling sorry for them and showing pity, they are not entitled to that from us.
A friend is writing a book on Reading FC and has been able to contact some of their players from the 80s and 90s, one of whom was Jeff Hopkins who is now living in Australia.
Even though it had nothing to do with Reading, he mentioned the farce at The Baseball Ground and how the Fulham players were being attacked at the final whistle and how he was relieved just to get into the changing rooms.
I watched FFC home and away from the early 70s to the late 90s and that afternoon was one that I will never forget for what went on on the pitch, the terraces and outside the ground. I've been in more scary situations like the big fight after the semi final replay at Maine Road where Birmingham came for us but fortunately some of the Man City Kippax got us out of a pretty dangerous situation, but post match at Derby was one that I was glad to escape unharmed from.
Having Ernie Clay as Chairman probably didn't help our cause with the FA, but if we had signed Andy Thomas after his loan deal expired we would have been promoted before that fateful day.
I have to agree
Quote from: Riversider on January 26, 2022, 02:10:36 PM
Quote from: f321ffc on January 26, 2022, 10:40:05 AM
Wonder what Robert Wilson's view of this is, I don't want them to go out of business but I will never forgive or forget them for that day.
Absolutely, penned by somebody that was actually there, like myself, if you weren't there that day it's virtually impossible for you to comment, a truly horrendous day that at times felt like you were fighting for your life,
**** Derby County and **** their supporters,
I hope their club survives but I hate to see Fulham supporters feeling sorry for them and showing pity, they are not entitled to that from us.
There are some things you cannot forgive and for me and many many other Fulham Foot Soldiers that is one of them.
I started following Fulham in the 90s, I don't know what happened with Derby, from what I'm reading here not good things
Love or hate Derby, this is a terrible condemnation of the way the game is run in this country, with money being so important, and clubs so reliant on rich, foreign benefactors, especially smaller clubs - and then having to trust these people, who often have little concern for the club and its fans, they just want to get rich.
We at Fulham have been so lucky with MAF and the Khans.
Quote from: Gezza on January 26, 2022, 08:19:49 PM
I am not a great fan of Wayne Rooney but he has earned my respect in the way he has continued to battle against the odds and got the best out of a depleted side.
I agree with Gezza, not a fan of Rooney but I do admire his determination and commitment to Derby. Wish there were more people in the Football world that has these principles.
Wayne Rooney says he turned down interview for Everton manager's jobRead the full article here:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jan/28/wayne-rooney-says-he-turned-down-interview-for-everton-manager-job
Wayne Rooney has said he turned down an approach from Everton to be interviewed for their manager's job, describing it as a tough decision.
Rooney, a boyhood Everton fan who joined the club aged nine and had two spells as a forward there, has been the Derby County manager since 2020. The financially stricken club are in administration and have been docked 21 points, making their tally of 14 points as the Championship's second-bottom side impressive.
"Everton approached my agent and asked me to interview for the vacant job, which I turned down," Rooney said. "I believe I will be a Premier League manager – I believe I'm ready for that, 100%. And if that is with Everton one day in the future that would be absolutely great. But I've got a job here that I'm doing at Derby County which is an important job to me."
The pull of Everton, for whom he played in the first team from 2002-04 and in 2017-18, did cause Rooney to consider the approach. "They got in touch with my agent [Paul Stretford], my agent let the administrators know as well, and yes of course it was a difficult decision for me," he said.
Frank Lampard has been offered the job according to the BBC
Quote from: bill taylors apprentice on January 28, 2022, 03:00:52 PM
Quote from: St. Andrews White on January 28, 2022, 02:00:20 PM
I don't envy Derby fans, wondering whether their club will even survive once all this is done, because of terrible decisions by their owners.
Boro and Wycombe are behaving poorly, the EFL aren't being honest from what I can see and the ones being punished are the fans. I think other clubs are planning ways to express their support, and I think we should too
Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
You are right the fans do suffer when their club is punished with a points deduction but that's looking at the issue from a very narrow focus.
The basics are, despite the owner allegedly pumping millions into the club they failed to reach the promise land and were losing over 1 million £'s a month and couldn't pay their creditors.
Covid didn't help but the problems date back before the pandemic, 12 points deducted for entering administration & 9 for dodgy accounting and the owner are the EFL rules and you can't say the EFL have trown the book at them as there are various regulatory issues still outstanding.
The guilty owner leaves the club on the brink of survival but you think the EFL are being dishonest!
What about the owner, because he apologies to the fans is that's OK?
I agree the onus and blame fall on the owners, but also the EFL and FA must take some responsibility for this mess.
I believe it's pretty well understood the 'fit & proper' test is a joke, the footablling authorities, if they truly had the good of the game at heart well over and above their own standing, would ensure that not only when ownership is being 'approved' have the owenrs shown a responsibility, but they should maintain that level throughout their ownership and membership of the league.
It seems the authorities tend to wipe their hands once they have supposidly completed their initial due diligence, until when, that is, a problem arises that they could and should have had means in place to spot beforehand, and then they act as though they are whiter than white and have no liability in not doing their job of overseeing the clubs.
Quote from: LC on January 29, 2022, 12:26:32 AM
I started following Fulham in the 90s, I don't know what happened with Derby, from what I'm reading here not good things
Affirmative 👍
I was there in '83....in the Derby end! It was truly a frightening experience.
A lot here are saying poor fans suffering from bad club financial management and they shouldn't suffer.
It's wasn't bad financial management which caused the pitch invasion and subsequent violence all over the pitch and outside.
So Karma truly has visited the fans!!
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on January 28, 2022, 08:51:59 PM
They are over 60 million in debt according to Sky in the last hour...Never known a Championship side to be that in debt.
Does the £60m include the cost of buying back the stadium?
Another late comeback they are fighting on the pitch.
I love this Derby team. Hope they and Rooney survive. Nothing against this fighting spirit. It's the thing warriors are made of. Best of luck Rams!
Quote from: Stevieboy on January 29, 2022, 01:45:47 PM
I was there in '83....in the Derby end! It was truly a frightening experience.
A lot here are saying poor fans suffering from bad club financial management and they shouldn't suffer.
It's wasn't bad financial management which caused the pitch invasion and subsequent violence all over the pitch and outside.
So Karma truly has visited the fans!!
Well said