And Lingard? Wasn't he helping West Ham to almost Champions League football a year ago? How are they they keeping within FFP if they have signed 11 players?
And they signed two Huddersfield players. Which is harsh on Huddersfield, after they were twice robbed by VAR in the play off final
Whiff of panic.Mind you one of their new signings has already broke his leg.
The answer to how they're staying within FFP is they got promoted with about 7 contracted players (and Samba left). It's similar to the position we were in when we beat Villa- but they're getting signings in with time to spare- and won't sign 7 players in the last 7 days of the window.
But to be fair they had loads of time to plan compared to what we had, so it's understandable that they've been able to get significantly more business done before we have.
Quote from: wheelerdeeler on July 21, 2022, 11:48:37 PM
The answer to how they're staying within FFP is they got promoted with about 7 contracted players (and Samba left). It's similar to the position we were in when we beat Villa- but they're getting signings in with time to spare- and won't sign 7 players in the last 7 days of the window.
But to be fair they had loads of time to plan compared to what we had, so it's understandable that they've been able to get significantly more business done before we have.
How on this earth do you figure that Forest had "loads of time to plan compared to what we had (sic)?".
Quote from: Twig on July 22, 2022, 12:50:07 AM
Quote from: wheelerdeeler on July 21, 2022, 11:48:37 PM
The answer to how they're staying within FFP is they got promoted with about 7 contracted players (and Samba left). It's similar to the position we were in when we beat Villa- but they're getting signings in with time to spare- and won't sign 7 players in the last 7 days of the window.
But to be fair they had loads of time to plan compared to what we had, so it's understandable that they've been able to get significantly more business done before we have.
How on this earth do you figure that Forest had "loads of time to plan compared to what we had (sic)?".
Sarcasm obviously doesn't translate well
Maybe they have some good people employed to bring in new players. Perhaps our guys could learn from them. Something is very wrong with the way we go about our business. It's no coincidence that it's happening again this window.
Quote from: Whitestone on July 22, 2022, 07:55:15 AM
Maybe they have some good people employed to bring in new players. Perhaps our guys could learn from them. Something is very wrong with the way we go about our business. It's no coincidence that it's happening again this window.
0robably a footbal experienced DOF in conjunction cation with the manager.
Still no guarantee of success though apart from having what looks a competent manager in cooper.
Come on Jessie Lingard for 200k a week is madness.
Let's Judge when the window has closed. Id rather 6btop players than over paying for 11 average players. Hell of gamble from them.
Quote from: Jimmy Hill on July 22, 2022, 08:07:48 AM
Come on Jessie Lingard for 200k a week is madness.
If they'd paid £10 million for him and offered him £50k a week would that be a better deal ?
No its Jesse Lingard. 50k a week on a free then maybe.
Quote from: Jimmy Hill on July 22, 2022, 08:07:48 AM
Come on Jessie Lingard for 200k a week is madness.
Is it 200k or is that just media talk ? I've also read that the figure is 115k rising to 150k with bonuses. Either way a lot of money but it's a one season deal which might make the difference for Forest.
Quote from: Jimmy Hill on July 22, 2022, 08:07:48 AM
Come on Jessie Lingard for 200k a week is madness.
Lingarrd is a free agent so £200,000 a week on a three year contract (I don't know the contract length but say 3 years) equates to the equivalent of an 18 million ish fee and 65000 grand a week. Not too crazy.
I don't know much about their finances but I think the answer might get this simple. FFP is counted over a number of season and their net spending has been very low so that put them in a very good starting position. They have slowly spent little to nothing on signings pre this season so they have close to zero amortisation that will hit this seasons FFP. Pretend that their signings have been given 4y contracts, the 80m spend will then be amortised over 4ys and only 20m will count against this year's FFP.
Yes, I suspect they were carrying relatively little ongoing cost into this coming season compared to ourselves. There are reasons why we won the league and one is that we had an expensive side and have spent a lot of money, trying to stay in the Prem and on getting promotion. It does look like FFP is making us negotiate hard and look for good deals.
Their big challenge will be moulding all these new players into a coherent team.
Our challenge is replacing holes in our team where we don't have premier league players.
The 3 players recruited so far are all starters, 2 fill holes and 1 replaces Fab. We just now need to fill the left centre back hole, provide cover or improve on right back ( this looks like it's now happening ). Then it's trying to upgrade elsewhere if we can, it's a much smaller challenge than Forest have.
You can never draw direct comparisons between the situation of one club and another as a single snapshot but if you take a longer look.... we are poor at how and when we bring in transfers and good at PR. The best incoming was Mitro and that was down to Slav whoi endlessly railed against the way squad selection was undertaken and as far as I can see not that much has changed.
I do still wonder about the CEO because making sure things are done properly and in a timely manner must be partly under his remit. We have had way more time than forest and even if I think they may be paying over the odds, at least they are making progress. We are more of the same and look where that has got us before. The opptimism has simply disolved as we fail to make signings at the right time. I love marco and he could have been a great long term manager for us but he will go the way of the others being blamed forhaving an inadequate squad.
To the people that say let's wait and see. What else can we do? I am just having to voice my concern again and whilst some people say it's hard to get transfers over the libne, clearly a different law of physics exists in Nottingham because they seem to be able to manage it.
Quote from: Whitestone on July 22, 2022, 08:17:25 AM
Quote from: Jimmy Hill on July 22, 2022, 08:07:48 AM
Come on Jessie Lingard for 200k a week is madness.
Is it 200k or is that just media talk ? I've also read that the figure is 115k rising to 150k with bonuses. Either way a lot of money but it's a one season deal which might make the difference for Forest.
Sure it more then that, as i pretty sure West Ham would pay him 115K, it will be high wages and a high signing on fee and high agent fee, and is Mr tiktok up for a relegation fight and he got to produce performances 5 times better then the rest of their player son that wage, plus Henderson on loan is probably another 100K a week, to me looks like poop or bust if they don't stay up they will have no money to retain players or build a new team. Theres a world cup coming up and this guy gone for money instead of a team in Europe I expect he will have a lot of niggles this season that will keep him out of games.
Quote from: ALG01 on July 22, 2022, 08:51:31 AM
You can never draw direct comparisons between the situation of one club and another as a single snapshot but if you take a longer look.... we are poor at how and when we bring in transfers and good at PR. The best incoming was Mitro and that was down to Slav whoi endlessly railed against the way squad selection was undertaken and as far as I can see not that much has changed.
I do still wonder about the CEO because making sure things are done properly and in a timely manner must be partly under his remit. We have had way more time than forest and even if I think they may be paying over the odds, at least they are making progress. We are more of the same and look where that has got us before. The opptimism has simply disolved as we fail to make signings at the right time. I love marco and he could have been a great long term manager for us but he will go the way of the others being blamed forhaving an inadequate squad.
To the people that say let's wait and see. What else can we do? I am just having to voice my concern again and whilst some people say it's hard to get transfers over the libne, clearly a different law of physics exists in Nottingham because they seem to be able to manage it.
Hang on...... you're forgetting that Mitro came to us at the very last minute of the 11th hour.
Quote from: Southcoastffc on July 22, 2022, 09:37:09 AM
Quote from: ALG01 on July 22, 2022, 08:51:31 AM
You can never draw direct comparisons between the situation of one club and another as a single snapshot but if you take a longer look.... we are poor at how and when we bring in transfers and good at PR. The best incoming was Mitro and that was down to Slav whoi endlessly railed against the way squad selection was undertaken and as far as I can see not that much has changed.
I do still wonder about the CEO because making sure things are done properly and in a timely manner must be partly under his remit. We have had way more time than forest and even if I think they may be paying over the odds, at least they are making progress. We are more of the same and look where that has got us before. The opptimism has simply disolved as we fail to make signings at the right time. I love marco and he could have been a great long term manager for us but he will go the way of the others being blamed forhaving an inadequate squad.
To the people that say let's wait and see. What else can we do? I am just having to voice my concern again and whilst some people say it's hard to get transfers over the libne, clearly a different law of physics exists in Nottingham because they seem to be able to manage it.
Hang on...... you're forgetting that Mitro came to us at the very last minute of the 11th hour.
Mitro is the anomaly, not the rule when he comes to why signings earlier, are generally better.
Breaking news. Forrest have signed 11 players and are now said to be putting a bid together for Dennis at Watford.
Interesting to see how it all works out for them but they have certainly got their act together quickly following play off promotion.
Quote from: filham on July 22, 2022, 09:50:15 AM
Breaking news. Forrest have signed 11 players and are now said to be putting a bid together for Dennis at Watford.
Interesting to see how it all works out for them but they have certainly got their act together quickly following play off promotion.
If they get Dennis ahead of us, I think I'll just chill out and condemn us to relegation and sip on an old fashioned at 10 in the morning. That would be a complete stinker.
Have Forest gotten anyone ahead of us? As in, we were both actually trying to sign a player that ultimately preferred them? Or are they just going around signing everyone they can? Because personally I wouldn't have been excited by most of their signings. But that is my opinion.
People are forgetting Lingard will have also received a hefty signing on fee, so it will be more than £10m. Could be a good deal for them if he's playing for a big move at the end of the one year deal, as he'll have to prove himself.
Quote from: Twig on July 22, 2022, 12:50:07 AM
Quote from: wheelerdeeler on July 21, 2022, 11:48:37 PM
The answer to how they're staying within FFP is they got promoted with about 7 contracted players (and Samba left). It's similar to the position we were in when we beat Villa- but they're getting signings in with time to spare- and won't sign 7 players in the last 7 days of the window.
But to be fair they had loads of time to plan compared to what we had, so it's understandable that they've been able to get significantly more business done before we have.
How on this earth do you figure that Forest had "loads of time to plan compared to what we had (sic)?".
but I spotted the sarcasm
Quote from: bobbo on July 22, 2022, 10:10:37 AM
Quote from: Twig on July 22, 2022, 12:50:07 AM
Quote from: wheelerdeeler on July 21, 2022, 11:48:37 PM
The answer to how they're staying within FFP is they got promoted with about 7 contracted players (and Samba left). It's similar to the position we were in when we beat Villa- but they're getting signings in with time to spare- and won't sign 7 players in the last 7 days of the window.
But to be fair they had loads of time to plan compared to what we had, so it's understandable that they've been able to get significantly more business done before we have.
How on this earth do you figure that Forest had "loads of time to plan compared to what we had (sic)?".
but I spotted the sarcasm
Sorry, missed that. Doh!
Think everyone is missing the point. Its Jesse lingard!
Put it this way Bobby Decordova Reid has more senior mens honours than him. Imo a better player.
Be interesting to see how Forest fit Lingard & Brennan Johnson in the same team. They both normally play as a 2nd-striker / in the hole.
Exciting time to be a forest fan but it's a huge task ahead. Bedding all these new players in and dressing room harmony with Lingard on about 5 times more money than everyone else in the squad.
The only player i would have liked to see at Fulham from the 11 signings is Moussa Niakhaté and a much cheaper Neco Williams. Possibly a Lewis O'Brian but he would just be back up so wouldn't want to come anyway.
I really don't care what other teams are doing. Lets look at where we are at the start of the season, end of the window and at the end of the season.
Quote from: Jimmy Hill on July 22, 2022, 12:11:23 PM
Put it this way Bobby Decordova Reid has more senior mens honours than him. Imo a better player.
You think Reid is better than Lingard?
Quote from: StuinSalop on July 22, 2022, 08:41:38 AM
Yes, I suspect they were carrying relatively little ongoing cost into this coming season compared to ourselves. There are reasons why we won the league and one is that we had an expensive side and have spent a lot of money, trying to stay in the Prem and on getting promotion. It does look like FFP is making us negotiate hard and look for good deals.
Their big challenge will be moulding all these new players into a coherent team.
Our challenge is replacing holes in our team where we don't have premier league players.
The 3 players recruited so far are all starters, 2 fill holes and 1 replaces Fab. We just now need to fill the left centre back hole, provide cover or improve on right back ( this looks like it's now happening ). Then it's trying to upgrade elsewhere if we can, it's a much smaller challenge than Forest have.
Agree. Definitely a better strategy than Nottingham Forest IMO
We have less to spend but a more cohesive team and firm understanding where we need to strengthen.
Forest's holes are everywhere and they need to build a 'team' in the heat of battle
Quote from: Sting of the North on July 22, 2022, 10:05:47 AM
Have Forest gotten anyone ahead of us? As in, we were both actually trying to sign a player that ultimately preferred them? Or are they just going around signing everyone they can? Because personally I wouldn't have been excited by most of their signings. But that is my opinion.
Agreed
Palhina and Solomon a cut above their signings IMO in terms of potential.
Then Periera is more up for debate but cautiously optimistic following a good season in Brazil.
Mbabu over Williams in terms of what he's proved already and value for money at a third of the price which lets us strengthen elsewhere
If we get them done, Leno or Neto on a permanent over Henderson on a loan with no option.
We just need to sort the defense out and maybe utilize the 2 loans for some extra depth and I won't be giving much of monkeys if they sign another 10 from here - they had no team so naturally have more work to do.
Quote from: Southcoastffc on July 22, 2022, 09:37:09 AM
Quote from: ALG01 on July 22, 2022, 08:51:31 AM
You can never draw direct comparisons between the situation of one club and another as a single snapshot but if you take a longer look.... we are poor at how and when we bring in transfers and good at PR. The best incoming was Mitro and that was down to Slav whoi endlessly railed against the way squad selection was undertaken and as far as I can see not that much has changed.
I do still wonder about the CEO because making sure things are done properly and in a timely manner must be partly under his remit. We have had way more time than forest and even if I think they may be paying over the odds, at least they are making progress. We are more of the same and look where that has got us before. The opptimism has simply disolved as we fail to make signings at the right time. I love marco and he could have been a great long term manager for us but he will go the way of the others being blamed forhaving an inadequate squad.
To the people that say let's wait and see. What else can we do? I am just having to voice my concern again and whilst some people say it's hard to get transfers over the libne, clearly a different law of physics exists in Nottingham because they seem to be able to manage it.
Hang on...... you're forgetting that Mitro came to us at the very last minute of the 11th hour.
I am not forgetting anything. He came mid season because slav realised he might be avaialble. I used slav as a pointer that he complained about how we handled signings all that time ago and we are still getting it wrong.
Brentford just signed Ben mee. And before anyone comments relegated last season or similar nonsense he has multiple years of prem survival experience and got the club as high as Europe. Look at burn if you still want to nay say. If Brentford could sign him crazy for us not to have gone after him particularly if we're not signing any other centre backs
Quote from: ffcthereligion on July 22, 2022, 03:13:28 PM
Brentford just signed Ben mee. And before anyone comments relegated last season or similar nonsense he has multiple years of prem survival experience and got the club as high as Europe. Look at burn if you still want to nay say. If Brentford could sign him crazy for us not to have gone after him particularly if we're not signing any other centre backs
Agree. We clearly need more than one CB. Mee would have been ideal.
Quote from: ffcthereligion on July 22, 2022, 03:13:28 PM
Brentford just signed Ben mee. And before anyone comments relegated last season or similar nonsense he has multiple years of prem survival experience and got the club as high as Europe. Look at burn if you still want to nay say. If Brentford could sign him crazy for us not to have gone after him particularly if we're not signing any other centre backs
Brentford were the only PL club interested in him and don't even see him as a starter so that says how the rest of the PL saw him as a viable option - he's coming back from a bad fibula fracture and was on £70k a week and so it's a huge risk offering a 32 year old (turning 33 in September) that sort of money considering he hasn't played since March
Quote from: Deeping_white on July 22, 2022, 03:19:13 PM
Quote from: ffcthereligion on July 22, 2022, 03:13:28 PM
Brentford just signed Ben mee. And before anyone comments relegated last season or similar nonsense he has multiple years of prem survival experience and got the club as high as Europe. Look at burn if you still want to nay say. If Brentford could sign him crazy for us not to have gone after him particularly if we're not signing any other centre backs
Brentford were the only PL club interested in him and don't even see him as a starter so that says how the rest of the PL saw him as a viable option - he's coming back from a bad fibula fracture and was on £70k a week and so it's a huge risk offering a 32 year old (turning 33 in September) that sort of money considering he hasn't played since March
A 'huge risk' you say. When the option is the older Ream I think it's a risk worth considering. As for salary I doubt that Brentford are paying over the odds there. Mee would have been perfect as an option for a promoted side.
Quote from: Whitestone on July 22, 2022, 03:16:47 PM
Quote from: ffcthereligion on July 22, 2022, 03:13:28 PM
Brentford just signed Ben mee. And before anyone comments relegated last season or similar nonsense he has multiple years of prem survival experience and got the club as high as Europe. Look at burn if you still want to nay say. If Brentford could sign him crazy for us not to have gone after him particularly if we're not signing any other centre backs
Agree. We clearly need more than one CB. Mee would have been ideal.
Doubt we'd have signed him, 32 years old with a hairline crack in his calfbone? A recent Athletic interview suggested Tony was keen to avoid signing good but injured players on the cheap to avoid the same mistakes.
He'd have been absolutely rinsed by many if we'd signed him "kongolo and mawson all over again, when will he learn" etc
We're in talks clearly for better long term options. Let's see what we get in the door.
Quote from: Whitestone on July 22, 2022, 03:30:47 PM
Quote from: Deeping_white on July 22, 2022, 03:19:13 PM
Quote from: ffcthereligion on July 22, 2022, 03:13:28 PM
Brentford just signed Ben mee. And before anyone comments relegated last season or similar nonsense he has multiple years of prem survival experience and got the club as high as Europe. Look at burn if you still want to nay say. If Brentford could sign him crazy for us not to have gone after him particularly if we're not signing any other centre backs
Brentford were the only PL club interested in him and don't even see him as a starter so that says how the rest of the PL saw him as a viable option - he's coming back from a bad fibula fracture and was on £70k a week and so it's a huge risk offering a 32 year old (turning 33 in September) that sort of money considering he hasn't played since March
A 'huge risk' you say. When the option is the older Ream I think it's a risk worth considering. As for salary I doubt that Brentford are paying over the odds there. Mee would have been perfect as an option for a promoted side.
well yes, he's not played a competitive game of football since Spring. If he wasn't fit straight away, which there is a serious chance of, imagine how many people would be on here slagging the club off for sigining a crocked nearly 33 year old CB.
I find it incredible that anyone comes on this forum and tries to argue Fulham have done well in the window. It has been an unmitigated disaster.
The veteran centre backs that we have missed are copious, the goalscorers, the GK's...and now we are even missing the easy ones. It's become a farce. Such a shame, we had so much time to plan and we have done really badly.
Try and explain away this window. It is really disappointing.It's last year's defence against the Prem....shine on !
Quote from: clarkey on July 22, 2022, 03:48:05 PM
I find it incredible that anyone comes on this forum and tries to argue Fulham have done well in the window. It has been an unmitigated disaster.
The veteran centre backs that we have missed are copious, the goalscorers, the GK's...and now we are even missing the easy ones. It's become a farce. Such a shame, we had so much time to plan and we have done really badly.
Try and explain away this window. It is really disappointing.It's last year's defence against the Prem....shine on !
Same posters who said the same last time as well. Just ignore it and lets hope this cluster f**k of a window gets some players who perform immediately and enough to keep SIlva from walking.
Quote from: Deeping_white on July 22, 2022, 03:37:31 PM
Quote from: Whitestone on July 22, 2022, 03:30:47 PM
Quote from: Deeping_white on July 22, 2022, 03:19:13 PM
Quote from: ffcthereligion on July 22, 2022, 03:13:28 PM
Brentford just signed Ben mee. And before anyone comments relegated last season or similar nonsense he has multiple years of prem survival experience and got the club as high as Europe. Look at burn if you still want to nay say. If Brentford could sign him crazy for us not to have gone after him particularly if we're not signing any other centre backs
Brentford were the only PL club interested in him and don't even see him as a starter so that says how the rest of the PL saw him as a viable option - he's coming back from a bad fibula fracture and was on £70k a week and so it's a huge risk offering a 32 year old (turning 33 in September) that sort of money considering he hasn't played since March
A 'huge risk' you say. When the option is the older Ream I think it's a risk worth considering. As for salary I doubt that Brentford are paying over the odds there. Mee would have been perfect as an option for a promoted side.
well yes, he's not played a competitive game of football since Spring. If he wasn't fit straight away, which there is a serious chance of, imagine how many people would be on here slagging the club off for sigining a crocked nearly 33 year old CB.
I don't disagree but we are now 14 days away from the new season. Earlier in the window there were more options. Now I'm not so sure. It seems we have probably moved on from the list of 6 Cb's mentioned by West Sussex White several weeks ago. It's a shambles whichever way it's dressed up.
Quote from: Whitestone on July 22, 2022, 04:01:26 PM
Quote from: Deeping_white on July 22, 2022, 03:37:31 PM
Quote from: Whitestone on July 22, 2022, 03:30:47 PM
Quote from: Deeping_white on July 22, 2022, 03:19:13 PM
Quote from: ffcthereligion on July 22, 2022, 03:13:28 PM
Brentford just signed Ben mee. And before anyone comments relegated last season or similar nonsense he has multiple years of prem survival experience and got the club as high as Europe. Look at burn if you still want to nay say. If Brentford could sign him crazy for us not to have gone after him particularly if we're not signing any other centre backs
Brentford were the only PL club interested in him and don't even see him as a starter so that says how the rest of the PL saw him as a viable option - he's coming back from a bad fibula fracture and was on £70k a week and so it's a huge risk offering a 32 year old (turning 33 in September) that sort of money considering he hasn't played since March
A 'huge risk' you say. When the option is the older Ream I think it's a risk worth considering. As for salary I doubt that Brentford are paying over the odds there. Mee would have been perfect as an option for a promoted side.
well yes, he's not played a competitive game of football since Spring. If he wasn't fit straight away, which there is a serious chance of, imagine how many people would be on here slagging the club off for sigining a crocked nearly 33 year old CB.
I don't disagree but we are now 14 days away from the new season. Earlier in the window there were more options. Now I'm not so sure. It seems we have probably moved on from the list of 6 Cb's mentioned by West Sussex White several weeks ago. It's a shambles whichever way it's dressed up.
In the transfer window, you need to be pro-active, o.k. you won't get all your targets, but we won't be chasing targets at the bottom of the list, because the top targets have been hunted down by pro-active clubs.
I'm hoping Marco can make something of the hand he's been dealt.
Quote from: clarkey on July 22, 2022, 03:48:05 PM
I find it incredible that anyone comes on this forum and tries to argue Fulham have done well in the window. It has been an unmitigated disaster.
The veteran centre backs that we have missed are copious, the goalscorers, the GK's...and now we are even missing the easy ones. It's become a farce. Such a shame, we had so much time to plan and we have done really badly.
Try and explain away this window. It is really disappointing.It's last year's defence against the Prem....shine on !
I dont think we've done all we need but not everyone is pant wetting about it.
Im still in the camp of I'd rather wait to get an Anderson-level defender than settle for a lesser CB like an injured Ben Mee. But then Im in the camp that felt had Silva been given our last prem squad we'd have stayed up so that explains that. If you feel last time the reason for us going down was more to do with Parker than anything else ya less precious about the first couple games, plenty time to bring players in before the 2nd/3rd/4th fixture. Heck a fortnight is plenty time to grab a CB too. And id they're good enough theyll make an immediate impact just like Anderson and Tosin did.
Seems like so far its
Palinha
Solomon
Periera
And now Mbabu all but done.
Happy with all those options really , perhaps a question mark on Periera for now but comes off a good season.
So yeh I think we've done well and signed some very good players.
Seems we are very much also closing in on a deal for at least 1 good goalkeeper between Leno and Neto. Rico alright althought not so good, so expect thatll be tied up soon.
So it really is then 2 weeks before the season starts and all attention on CB's. Again, considering last time we signed Anderson and Tosin in the last week I'd be more than happy if we repeated that level of recruitment + starting with a better team than last time out and feel confident Silva could keep us up in that instance.
All of us would love it to be tied up already but equally I dont really see or feel the need to catastrophise all the time about it. As has been stated loads, good players spent decades moving between clubs before this transfer window stuff and no one squabbled about how they had to have a month of training before theyd be any use.
Just my 2 cents.
Regardless like all of us, once this RB and GK are brought in which seems to be the case I very much hope for CB's as the next important piece to focus on
A lot of the quality in a transfer window doesn't become available until the end, this is when the best team have got improvements in and current players either aren't going to be in squad or have dropped to 3rd choice and are looking at moving or teams what to recoup money
Quote from: clarkey on July 22, 2022, 03:48:05 PM
I find it incredible that anyone comes on this forum and tries to argue Fulham have done well in the window. It has been an unmitigated disaster.
The veteran centre backs that we have missed are copious, the goalscorers, the GK's...and now we are even missing the easy ones. It's become a farce. Such a shame, we had so much time to plan and we have done really badly.
Try and explain away this window. It is really disappointing.It's last year's defence against the Prem....shine on !
I am not sure why they say everything is brilliant when it clearly isn't.
Sounds like they have fallen for club pr.
But it is a shame they say it's ok when clearly it isn't
Who said 'everything is brilliant'? Surely it's entirely possible to have various opinions that are non-binary?
Quote from: Sting of the North on July 22, 2022, 08:47:30 PM
Who said 'everything is brilliant'? Surely it's entirely possible to have various opinions that are non-binary?
And herein lies the problem. We've seen fair criticism (imo) disregarded and people pretend we're on the apocalyptic scale and we've also had posters say everything isn't THAT bad yet and we have time, suggested that everything is roses. A bit of nuance wouldn't go a miss. For what its worth, not a fan of the window so far. TK out. Bring on the zombies.
Quote from: FFC1987 on July 22, 2022, 03:58:38 PM
Quote from: clarkey on July 22, 2022, 03:48:05 PM
I find it incredible that anyone comes on this forum and tries to argue Fulham have done well in the window. It has been an unmitigated disaster.
The veteran centre backs that we have missed are copious, the goalscorers, the GK's...and now we are even missing the easy ones. It's become a farce. Such a shame, we had so much time to plan and we have done really badly.
Try and explain away this window. It is really disappointing.It's last year's defence against the Prem....shine on !
Same posters who said the same last time as well. Just ignore it and lets hope this cluster f**k of a window gets some players who perform immediately and enough to keep SIlva from walking.
Yeah, let's overspend on old players just because others have!?
Under Mo we ended up doing that, after being a solid Prem team for long while, and look where that got us!
I'm so glad none of you lot deal in our transfers as it seems that any player bought by NF or Brentford are ones we've missed/should have gone for! Also that we should just whatever the asking price is!
I assume those that feel that an extra 1 or 2 million would like to think about how much that actually is, and/or how that affects ffp?
I would also hope that those that suggest this type of fee are not opposed to the seat ticket prices for certain games this season?
As an aside, I thought Fulham1987 was the year the poster was born, only to realise it's how many posts made on each and every thread! (Well almost!)
Do you always say so much to add so little? Don't like me posting on various threads of a forum, there's a mute button. Would much prefer if you did use the function as clearly, you don't actually read what others have posted. Now bore off back to the bridge you crawled out of.
Quote from: Sting of the North on July 22, 2022, 08:47:30 PM
Who said 'everything is brilliant'? Surely it's entirely possible to have various opinions that are non-binary?
You can hold any opinion you want because that makes it opinion.
However, and as you know, a select few posters always, and i mean always,defend the club and any of its actions/inactions no matter what. If i and others voice real concern because things are completely wrong and running counter to the expectation raised by the owner and his PR team, i dislike being told black is white, or even being lured into circular argument.
The club transfer policy is poor , the ffp issue is a result of that policy, the inability to sign players in a timely manner shows a level of amateurism and i fear another opportunity will be wasted and a top class manger will slip through our fingers, again.
But you are entitled to your opinion.
But i alwatys return to my favourite theme, i want the best for the club, i don't love the individuals, when i read many other supporters posts i don't think the same is true... not speaking up and saying our off field performance is poor, is doing the club a mega diservice.
Quote from: ALG01 on July 22, 2022, 11:02:08 PM
However, and as you know, a select few posters always, and i mean always,defend the club and any of its actions/inactions no matter what.
And a few well-known posters only seem to come onto the forum to criticise the Club - never to say anything positive.
Quote from: Arthur on July 22, 2022, 11:28:18 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on July 22, 2022, 11:02:08 PM
However, and as you know, a select few posters always, and i mean always,defend the club and any of its actions/inactions no matter what.
And a few well-known posters invariably criticise the Club no matter what.
That really is ridiculous and actually i resent the remark totally. I have said many times i have had an unbroken season ticket for 60+years, even with 2000 in the ground going to endless distant pointless away games midweek in the freezing rain, so i do not expect such a comment.
I critisise what is wrong! When it's wrong and the situation we have now is wrong.
You invariably critisise me with a handful of others, over and over. If i say black you inevitably say white. Please keep away if this is the best you have to say when the poor management of the club is throwingxawzy anther brilliant opportunity.
Quote from: ALG01 on July 22, 2022, 11:54:46 PM
Quote from: Arthur on July 22, 2022, 11:28:18 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on July 22, 2022, 11:02:08 PM
However, and as you know, a select few posters always, and i mean always,defend the club and any of its actions/inactions no matter what.
And a few well-known posters invariably criticise the Club no matter what.
That really is ridiculous and actually i resent the remark totally. I have said many times i have had an unbroken season ticket for 60+years, even with 2000 in the ground going to endless distant pointless away games midweek in the freezing rain, so i do not expect such a comment.
I critisise what is wrong! When it's wrong and the situation we have now is wrong.
You invariably critisise me with a handful of others, over and over. If i say black you inevitably say white. Please keep away if this is the best you have to say when the poor management of the club is throwingxawzy anther brilliant opportunity.
Mind what you say, please.
It was your remark - scornful of those who defend the Club - that drew my parallel response. Don't throw the first stone and then bleat when someone throws one back - rolling out the 'I've been a supporter for so many years' line for the umpteenth time. Let me tell you: So have I. Since I was 6 years old. More than 50 years ago. I'm a season ticket holder and every home game involves a 400-mile round trip. But such dedication doesn't make my opinion any more valid or correct - and neither does your long standing support enhance yours. Hard luck.
This is not the first time you've berated those who don't go along with your line of thinking - but it is the first time I've let you know it's a two-sided coin. And in spite of your protestation, I've seen instances where your default response has been to criticise the Club - accusing it of 'panic' and 'desperation' on the day of Marco Silva was unveiled, for one, only because you didn't know who he was.
If you don't want to feel you have to defend yourself (as opposed to defending your opinions), then stick to criticising the Club without taking a sideswipe at those who don't buy into to your way of thinking.
I doubt anyone on here knows the full ins and outs of why we haven't been able get most of the players we've been linked with, so far; but obviously efforts have been made - so how fair is it to criticise the club negotiators? I don't know.
Forest signed Neco, when we weren't able to - when it seemed an obvious choice to come here, but was this to do with FFP? Just one example, of why Forest may have been more successful in transfer incomings than us - if they really have been.
But I still expect us to sign more players, probably including a cb and a keeper.
Abusing each other , if someone expresses a somewhat different view than one's own, is pointless when we all want the same thing - Fulham to start the new season with a team capable of staying up, and none of us know the full reality of the situation.
Quote from: filham on July 22, 2022, 09:50:15 AM
Breaking news. Forrest have signed 11 players and are now said to be putting a bid together for Dennis at Watford.
Interesting to see how it all works out for them but they have certainly got their act together quickly following play off promotion.
and their full strength team drew 0-0 with Barnsley.
Quote from: RaySmith on July 23, 2022, 01:51:34 AM
I doubt anyone on here knows the full ins and outs of why we haven't been able get most of the players we've been linked with, so far; but obviously efforts have been made - so how fair is it to criticise the club negotiators? I don't know.
Forest signed Neco, when we weren't able to - when it seemed an obvious choice to come here, but was this to do with FFP? Just one example, of why Forest may have been more successful in transfer incomings than us - if they really have been.
But I still expect us to sign more players, probably including a cb and a keeper.
Abusing each other , if someone expresses a somewhat different view than one's own, is pointless when we all want the same thing - Fulham to start the new season with a team capable of staying up, and none of us know the full reality of the situation.
haha we weren't able to?? We chose not to spend 17 million on someone who has looked not prem level every time he's played in it.
Williams for 17 million is way over the top. If we'd paid that, many on here would be saying "We've had our pants pulled down".
And if Forest are paying Lingard the rumoured weekly wage, they run a huge risk of a) putting the rest of their squad's noses out of joint and b) being in deep, deep sh*t should they get relegated.
Sure, it would be good to have made more signings by now, but the assumption that the club is incompetent / not trying / being mean, is just that, an assumption.
The last two season's signings have been mostly good. The likes of Areola, Anderson etc. were top class. That squad was good enough to stay in the Prem. The same team that made those signings is, I presume, still the same team working hard to make signings now, plus having a better manager in Marco.
Most signings are made late in the window because that's when players and agents hold out to see what the best offer is.
Quote from: Snibbo on July 23, 2022, 05:17:20 AM
Williams for 17 million is way over the top. If we'd paid that, many on here would be saying "We've had our pants pulled down".
And if Forest are paying Lingard the rumoured weekly wage, they run a huge risk of a) putting the rest of their squad's noses out of joint and b) being in deep, deep sh*t should they get relegated.
Sure, it would be good to have made more signings by now, but the assumption that the club is incompetent / not trying / being mean, is just that, an assumption.
The last two season's signings have been mostly good. The likes of Areola, Anderson etc. were top class. That squad was good enough to stay in the Prem. The same team that made those signings is, I presume, still the same team working hard to make signings now, plus having a better manager in Marco.
Most signings are made late in the window because that's when players and agents hold out to see what the best offer is.
If we signed Williams and he helped us stay up, it would be worth it though, but now we've got another fb in it sems - may be a better buy, and did seem an over the top price for Neco.
But agree with you that we shouldn't make assumptions about the transfer negotiating team being incompetent or whatever - that's what I was trying to say in my post.
I feel that we will start the season with a strong looking team. If we begin well, and, importantly, stay up, then Silva, and the transfer team will be seen as geniuses.
We didn't pay that much for Williams because we're not going to play with wing backs whereas forest are and they knew they were losing spence. It's very simple. A right back is a different role
11 new players and 5 subs allowed they defo getting a squad in depth together
Quote from: ALG01 on July 22, 2022, 11:02:08 PM
Quote from: Sting of the North on July 22, 2022, 08:47:30 PM
Who said 'everything is brilliant'? Surely it's entirely possible to have various opinions that are non-binary?
You can hold any opinion you want because that makes it opinion.
However, and as you know, a select few posters always, and i mean always,defend the club and any of its actions/inactions no matter what. If i and others voice real concern because things are completely wrong and running counter to the expectation raised by the owner and his PR team, i dislike being told black is white, or even being lured into circular argument.
The club transfer policy is poor , the ffp issue is a result of that policy, the inability to sign players in a timely manner shows a level of amateurism and i fear another opportunity will be wasted and a top class manger will slip through our fingers, again.
But you are entitled to your opinion.
But i alwatys return to my favourite theme, i want the best for the club, i don't love the individuals, when i read many other supporters posts i don't think the same is true... not speaking up and saying our off field performance is poor, is doing the club a mega diservice.
How can EVERYTHING be wrong? We were promoted at a canter and were champions. We have made 2 quality signings and one that may prove to be astute or may be a dud.... Who knows? We have other quality players to come in if negotiations can be concluded. We have let players go who were not part of future plans. Get some perspective..... we had around 15 years hanging around the bottom of the pro divisions. Things are not perfect but everything is not wrong.
What they are doing is a fulham of 18/19 season.
Everything to do with transfers is taking much longer then it should, no doubt has a 'tick box' thing going on, no doubt Khan Junior looks through the Medical Reports too
Pure supposition on your part there and even if he did look over medical reports, whats the problem with that?
Quote from: Somerset Fulham on July 23, 2022, 10:56:49 AM
Pure supposition on your part there and even if he did look over medical reports, whats the problem with that?
I mean why would we want to carry out due diligence when spending several millions of pounds, money grows on trees dont you know
Of all the complaints to have over clearly delayed transfers :022:
Low hanging fruit though to try and justify it all gents. It's been a poor window thus far.
Quote from: rebel on July 23, 2022, 10:25:55 AM
Everything to do with transfers is taking much longer then it should, no doubt has a 'tick box' thing going on, no doubt Khan Junior looks through the Medical Reports too
Or we are tight for cash and trying to get the best deal we can?
Couldn't care less what Forrest are doing, how many signings they make.
We had better players to start with, panic buying won't help them.
11 new players will cause issues, takes a while to gel.
Quote from: Motspur Park on July 23, 2022, 09:36:16 AM
Quote from: ALG01 on July 22, 2022, 11:02:08 PM
Quote from: Sting of the North on July 22, 2022, 08:47:30 PM
Who said 'everything is brilliant'? Surely it's entirely possible to have various opinions that are non-binary?
You can hold any opinion you want because that makes it opinion.
However, and as you know, a select few posters always, and i mean always,defend the club and any of its actions/inactions no matter what. If i and others voice real concern because things are completely wrong and running counter to the expectation raised by the owner and his PR team, i dislike being told black is white, or even being lured into circular argument.
The club transfer policy is poor , the ffp issue is a result of that policy, the inability to sign players in a timely manner shows a level of amateurism and i fear another opportunity will be wasted and a top class manger will slip through our fingers, again.
But you are entitled to your opinion.
But i alwatys return to my favourite theme, i want the best for the club, i don't love the individuals, when i read many other supporters posts i don't think the same is true... not speaking up and saying our off field performance is poor, is doing the club a mega diservice.
How can EVERYTHING be wrong? We were promoted at a canter and were champions. We have made 2 quality signings and one that may prove to be astute or may be a dud.... Who knows? We have other quality players to come in if negotiations can be concluded. We have let players go who were not part of future plans. Get some perspective..... we had around 15 years hanging around the bottom of the pro divisions. Things are not perfect but everything is not wrong.
I didn't say everything is wrong but our transfer policy over the recent seasons is surely very poor in the years we have been promoted, and even the years we weren't and I sight previous managers comments.
We were expecting lessons to have been learned by now but clearly that is not the case. we all know we needed to have more of a squad in place. By now two confiremd players is alarming and not what the owner suggested would be happening.
my perspective is wanting us to improve and survive. I see no evidence that this management knows how to get this done.
You said things are 'completely wrong' so by definition you were saying everything is wrong.
Quote from: ALG01 on July 23, 2022, 11:48:41 AM
I didn't say everything is wrong but our transfer policy over the recent seasons is surely very poor in the years we have been promoted, and even the years we weren't and I sight previous managers comments.
Managers? Since Khan Jnr took over only Jokanovic openly criticised recruitment by saying he had been told it wasn't his job! Parker was involved (according to him and TK) and Marco Silva is presumed to be involved because Khan Snr wouldn't have it any other way. That leaves Ranieri who thought Khan Jnr had done well and the team was 'good enough'. Is it any wonder people question your comments?
Just two weeks to go to the start of the season and it looks as if we have only Tosin and Ream to fill the two center back positions, that seems a huge risk. Silva needs to wrap these two players in cotton wool as a minor injury to either of them right now would be a disaster for us.
However , I am pleased that we are not splashing cash wildly on players and are resisting some of the crazy wage demands, we have in recent times made some bad expensive buys.
I hope we can find a good center back soon but even then it will not be the time to judge whether or not we have had a good window. Lets make that judgement at Christmas when we see how the new players perform and where we are in the table.
Snibbo you are entirely right in what you say, but the whole point is that good transfer windows are achieved by being ahead of the curve. Look at the squad Leicester put together under the noses of the big boys. Shrewd scouting, excellent contacts and following a plan, putting a squad together made up of some real talent.Those signings of Anderson and Areola were great but far too late.
We had a better opportunity this season to really put together a young, exciting squad, with a combination of players Silva knew from Portugal (especially youngsters) and some tried and tested veterans on their way down but full of Prem experience.Like Mee or a number of others.
Football is an easy industry to assess how well your club are performing, because it is an extremely public and well covered industry.However hard they have tried at this stage the results are there in b and w. We have signed three players. One of whom is not very good from Utd, one is not proven in the Prem and one looks like a good player.
I am just disappointed, and I think all true fans would feel the same.We have not done well this window. I was expecting an influx closer to Forest's number of incoming players or at least six or seven.
I bet the Forest fans feel excited with their signings.We have a good CDM but then we let a decent one go. We have not cleared out all the dead wood and we have not strengthened the main areas that need help. We are not playing the friendlies with our new players in place.
It is same as before. Shame.Don't tell me you don't look every day at the transfer talk, and see Fulham notable by their absence and question what on earth is going on ? Or at least Why ? Be good to have a proper explanation from the Club at some stage, what the aim was and what the reality is. But that won't happen.
Let's hope we do not get any injuries early on to Tosin , Wilson or Mitro.
Quote from: Somerset Fulham on July 23, 2022, 10:56:49 AM
Pure supposition on your part there and even if he did look over medical reports, whats the problem with that?
Everything is wrong with that, there's something called 'division of labour', what's the point of having other people in their specialties, it's not like he can give a second opinion is it. He needs limited information that the player has passed his medical.
Actually maybe he does need to know a lot more, if the player has an injury, he can get a few million knocked off. Yeah, we recruit another injured player.
Quote from: Nero on July 23, 2022, 11:17:51 AM
Quote from: Somerset Fulham on July 23, 2022, 10:56:49 AM
Pure supposition on your part there and even if he did look over medical reports, whats the problem with that?
I mean why would we want to carry out due diligence when spending several millions of pounds, money grows on trees dont you know
I didn't say anything about not carrying out due diligence (medicals / history), I'm just saying that he shouldn't be overly involved in the transfers process.
Quote from: rebel on July 23, 2022, 05:05:38 PM
Quote from: Nero on July 23, 2022, 11:17:51 AM
Quote from: Somerset Fulham on July 23, 2022, 10:56:49 AM
Pure supposition on your part there and even if he did look over medical reports, whats the problem with that?
I mean why would we want to carry out due diligence when spending several millions of pounds, money grows on trees dont you know
I didn't say anything about not carrying out due diligence (medicals / history), I'm just saying that he shouldn't be overly involved in the transfers process.
But you don't know his level of involvement do you? Do you have any hints or evidence that he spends any significant amount looking over medical reports, for example? Otherwise, there may as well be entirely different reasons for the alleged problems?
Quote from: Sting of the North on July 23, 2022, 05:54:26 PM
Quote from: rebel on July 23, 2022, 05:05:38 PM
Quote from: Nero on July 23, 2022, 11:17:51 AM
Quote from: Somerset Fulham on July 23, 2022, 10:56:49 AM
Pure supposition on your part there and even if he did look over medical reports, whats the problem with that?
I mean why would we want to carry out due diligence when spending several millions of pounds, money grows on trees dont you know
I didn't say anything about not carrying out due diligence (medicals / history), I'm just saying that he shouldn't be overly involved in the transfers process.
But you don't know his level of involvement do you? Do you have any hints or evidence that he spends any significant amount looking over medical reports, for example? Otherwise, there may as well be entirely different reasons for the alleged problems?
I'd say its safe to assume based on his twitter output, and statements from the chairmen in the past, that he plays a significant role in transfers. I'm not suggesting he looks through the medical notes, I very much doubt he does, but I absolutely think TK has a lot to answer for and has himself placed said blame on himself for not getting stuff done as quickly as has previously been needed.
Hard to not accept from his own words of conformation that he's central to transfers and plays a pivotal role in them.
Sure, but that doesn't mean that the problem of the alleged delay on transfers is the level of involvement from Khan Jr. The argument here was that it is TK's actions or control behaviour that is the reason for us not getting more players over the line. It could equally be one or several other reasons (incompetence, bad support staff, bad luck, inexperience etc.). Thus, I questioned whether or not there were reasonable information to suggest that the problem is that TK is too involved.
Quote from: Sting of the North on July 23, 2022, 06:03:26 PM
Sure, but that doesn't mean that the problem of the alleged delay on transfers is the level of involvement from Khan Jr. The argument here was that it is TK's actions or control behaviour that is the reason for us not getting more players over the line. It could equally be one or several other reasons (incompetence, bad support staff, bad luck, inexperience etc.). Thus, I questioned whether or not there were reasonable information to suggest that the problem is that TK is too involved.
That seems fair enough. I guess following on, its the more the people that don't think TK has done anything wrong or can't see it I tend to argue with. For what its worth, I'm been firmly a TK fan minus some of his questionable social media to this point, but this windows stinks (to me anyway).
I find it far too early to assess this window. I prefer to see where the pieces fit together before passing judgment.
Quote from: Sting of the North on July 23, 2022, 06:11:05 PM
I find it far too early to assess this window. I prefer to see where the pieces fit together before passing judgment.
I take it as a two phase process. One for how quickly we get key players in for a good pre-season, then we should have no excuses for a poor start. Then lets see how the late comers react and where we are by christmas.
Quote from: toshes mate on July 23, 2022, 12:05:01 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on July 23, 2022, 11:48:41 AM
I didn't say everything is wrong but our transfer policy over the recent seasons is surely very poor in the years we have been promoted, and even the years we weren't and I sight previous managers comments.
Managers? Since Khan Jnr took over only Jokanovic openly criticised recruitment by saying he had been told it wasn't his job! Parker was involved (according to him and TK) and Marco Silva is presumed to be involved because Khan Snr wouldn't have it any other way. That leaves Ranieri who thought Khan Jnr had done well and the team was 'good enough'. Is it any wonder people question your comments?
Parker and kit both were very critical.
The wonder is the same handful of people have a go at me while saying nothing.
Iit is very tiresome people like you prefer to have a go at me rather than the very poor performance of our transfer policy.
Or i can take your view and just accept the dross in an unquestioning way.
I think Tony has been a mediocre/somewhat-below-average DoF in the past, and is one factor of several, in our various relegations in recent history (not the one 10 years ago). I don't think he is amazing or anything close to that as a DoF now.
I wish we had a full-time, dedicated DoF.
I don't think, based on the last few windows, comments/articles the last couple of years, as well as what has been reported this window, that Tony is much to blame directly for the current window situation (send more CBs!). I don't get the sense that Tony controls the direct negotiations much, and I'm not convinced he was ever much. I put more of the blame on Ali Mac, and to an extent the requirement of a limited-income club like ours to comply with FFP.
Of course, some of the FFP stuff is just payment, with interest, on some previously bad decisions by TK, but most of that has turned over at this point, and while hindsight makes the overpayment on Knockaert and Cavaleiro obvious now, IIRC bringing them in with loan-to-buy deals was seen as worth it to ensure an immediate return to the Premier League.
Quote from: ALG01 on July 23, 2022, 06:41:03 PM
Quote from: toshes mate on July 23, 2022, 12:05:01 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on July 23, 2022, 11:48:41 AM
I didn't say everything is wrong but our transfer policy over the recent seasons is surely very poor in the years we have been promoted, and even the years we weren't and I sight previous managers comments.
Managers? Since Khan Jnr took over only Jokanovic openly criticised recruitment by saying he had been told it wasn't his job! Parker was involved (according to him and TK) and Marco Silva is presumed to be involved because Khan Snr wouldn't have it any other way. That leaves Ranieri who thought Khan Jnr had done well and the team was 'good enough'. Is it any wonder people question your comments?
Parker and kit both were very critical.
The wonder is the same handful of people have a go at me while saying nothing.
Iit is very tiresome people like you prefer to have a go at me rather than the very poor performance of our transfer policy.
Or i can take your view and just accept the dross in an unquestioning way.
Symons was gone before TK took the reigns.
I question as much as anyone but try hard to think of the right questions to ask. You should try it too.
Forest fans are getting in my nerves. But on the other hand I admire the club for having a go.
I'm sure Cooper told them who he wanted, rather than Tony just bought his from the stat machine and told Joka to sort it!
Sent from my SM-G990B using Tapatalk
Quote from: Blawarmy on July 24, 2022, 12:53:12 PM
Forest fans are getting in my nerves. But on the other hand I admire the club for having a go.
I'm sure Cooper told them who he wanted, rather than Tony just bought his from the stat machine and told Joka to sort it!
Sent from my SM-G990B using Tapatalk
It was the same system under Joka as now, but Joka threw his dummy out and didn't want to be involved because he didn't get a player he wanted so it had to be down to 2 boxes
Quote from: toshes mate on July 23, 2022, 07:35:03 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on July 23, 2022, 06:41:03 PM
Quote from: toshes mate on July 23, 2022, 12:05:01 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on July 23, 2022, 11:48:41 AM
I didn't say everything is wrong but our transfer policy over the recent seasons is surely very poor in the years we have been promoted, and even the years we weren't and I sight previous managers comments.
Managers? Since Khan Jnr took over only Jokanovic openly criticised recruitment by saying he had been told it wasn't his job! Parker was involved (according to him and TK) and Marco Silva is presumed to be involved because Khan Snr wouldn't have it any other way. That leaves Ranieri who thought Khan Jnr had done well and the team was 'good enough'. Is it any wonder people question your comments?
Parker and kit both were very critical.
The wonder is the same handful of people have a go at me while saying nothing.
Iit is very tiresome people like you prefer to have a go at me rather than the very poor performance of our transfer policy.
Or i can take your view and just accept the dross in an unquestioning way.
Symons was gone before TK took the reigns.
I question as much as anyone but try hard to think of the right questions to ask. You should try it too.
Love this. I'm a casual poster but an intense reader and am finding some of the TK criticism intolerable which is why I don't engage in much posting. However most of the criticism seems to me to be made up nonsense or perhaps completely incorrect assumptions by a lot of posters and I'm so pleased to see one of these posters (Alg01) being found out here in claiming Kit Symons was criticising Mr Khan Junior before he was even employed by the club!
Quote from: toshes mate on July 23, 2022, 07:35:03 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on July 23, 2022, 06:41:03 PM
Quote from: toshes mate on July 23, 2022, 12:05:01 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on July 23, 2022, 11:48:41 AM
I didn't say everything is wrong but our transfer policy over the recent seasons is surely very poor in the years we have been promoted, and even the years we weren't and I sight previous managers comments.
Managers? Since Khan Jnr took over only Jokanovic openly criticised recruitment by saying he had been told it wasn't his job! Parker was involved (according to him and TK) and Marco Silva is presumed to be involved because Khan Snr wouldn't have it any other way. That leaves Ranieri who thought Khan Jnr had done well and the team was 'good enough'. Is it any wonder people question your comments?
Parker and kit both were very critical.
The wonder is the same handful of people have a go at me while saying nothing.
Iit is very tiresome people like you prefer to have a go at me rather than the very poor performance of our transfer policy.
Or i can take your view and just accept the dross in an unquestioning way.
Symons was gone before TK took the reigns.
I question as much as anyone but try hard to think of the right questions to ask. You should try it too.
You are wrong
Kit was working with TK
I have heard a first hand account of the interference
Quote from: Kingjay81 on July 24, 2022, 01:50:03 PM
Quote from: toshes mate on July 23, 2022, 07:35:03 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on July 23, 2022, 06:41:03 PM
Quote from: toshes mate on July 23, 2022, 12:05:01 PM
Quote from: ALG01 on July 23, 2022, 11:48:41 AM
I didn't say everything is wrong but our transfer policy over the recent seasons is surely very poor in the years we have been promoted, and even the years we weren't and I sight previous managers comments.
Managers? Since Khan Jnr took over only Jokanovic openly criticised recruitment by saying he had been told it wasn't his job! Parker was involved (according to him and TK) and Marco Silva is presumed to be involved because Khan Snr wouldn't have it any other way. That leaves Ranieri who thought Khan Jnr had done well and the team was 'good enough'. Is it any wonder people question your comments?
Parker and kit both were very critical.
The wonder is the same handful of people have a go at me while saying nothing.
Iit is very tiresome people like you prefer to have a go at me rather than the very poor performance of our transfer policy.
Or i can take your view and just accept the dross in an unquestioning way.
Symons was gone before TK took the reigns.
I question as much as anyone but try hard to think of the right questions to ask. You should try it too.
Love this. I'm a casual poster but an intense reader and am finding some of the TK criticism intolerable which is why I don't engage in much posting. However most of the criticism seems to me to be made up nonsense or perhaps completely incorrect assumptions by a lot of posters and I'm so pleased to see one of these posters (Alg01) being found out here in claiming Kit Symons was criticising Mr Khan Junior before he was even employed by the club!
See, I'd be somewhat sympathetic to posts like this if you gave any sort of evidence for others baseless claims. I'll take issue with this as, whilst I'm not in Alg01 camp, I can't imagine how deluded and head in sand one would have to be in suggesting TK hasn't done much or anything wrong when a cursory glance at his own words would provide ample evidence that he has. And the biggest gaff is, he's reliving the same one to some extent with no CB's in early having released a few (who albeit weren't good enough). I'm not going to die on the hill that TK and Kit worked together, but that seems hardly relevant when we have ample evidence of him not quite being up to standards with other managers.
Mike Rigg was appointed by Shahid Khan as Chief Football Officer in December 2014 specifically as support to Kit Symons. Rigg's background was as a talent finder and technical director with for example Manchester City, QPR and the FA. Rigg did not leave Fulham until November 2016 well into Jokanovic's first season and so Symons, unlike the Serb, was well supported throughout his tenure.
This is what Khan Snr said at the time Rigg was appointed:
"Based on my experience over the past 17 months and through the most recent managerial search, it became clear to me that the new Fulham manager - in fact, the entire football operation - would benefit from someone whose sole responsibility was to focus on the short, mid and long-term product on the pitch. In my mind, that called for a head of all football activities that would report directly to me but work collaboratively with Kit, our scouting group, the Academy, sports performance medical and our analytics team.
This wasn't a revelation, but rather the recognition that the challenges football clubs face today are more complex than ever and our ambition requires that we organise in the optimal way to achieve our goals. But we were not interested in accelerating this organisational shift for Fulham until, or unless, we found the right person. And we have in Mike Rigg."
This is what the FA had to say about Rigg's departure.
"We are really sorry to see Mike go but we totally understand his reasons,' said Ashworth, in a statement released by the FA. 'It was always likely he would move back into club football at some stage, as this type of role becomes increasingly common within the game.
Mike has played a huge part in the transformation of the way in which we work in talent identification and helped build and shape a department that looks after both the male and female game.
I would like to place on record my thanks for all of his hard work and support and wish him well in his new role at Fulham.'
*
With hindsight Khan Snr may have to see the takeover of recruitment by TK and CK as a very big and disruptive mistake because clearly the plan was to build a proper professional football base at Motspur Park able to seek out and recruit talent. Rigg was central to that and had much essential experience necessary to make it work. Neither TK nor CK had such experience in any form of football let alone English football.
What did TK and CK offer other than the same analytics available to any football club with a PC and the software necessary to watch the marketplace 24/7/365 and why did Rigg leave so quickly after they began their reign? Those are questions that need answers although I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for them.
Some people really need to do their fact finding before they jump out of the frying pan into the fire and it isn't that hard to do the former thus avoiding having to suffer the latter ...
This article seems to suggest that Forest haven't finished their spending yet (and there is a slight dig at us too)
https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2022/07/23/ive-been-told-journalist-shares-exciting-nottingham-forest-transfer-update/
Quote from: toshes mate on July 24, 2022, 03:47:12 PMWhat did TK and CK offer other than the same analytics available to any football club with a PC and the software necessary to watch the marketplace 24/7/365 and why did Rigg leave so quickly after they began their reign? Those are questions that need answers although I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for them.
Those are very relevant questions and I think the unfortunate answer is an ambitious scion who wanted to make his name in a sporting operation where he could actually run everything (unlike the NFL, where the Jaguars have always had a General Manager). That necessitated the departure of any experienced heads like Rigg and a pause on hiring any replacement.
I don't think TK is overly bad, but he is definitely a rich kid who gets to play real life Football Manager/WWE GM mode. Nepotism is never a good thing in a business.
Quote from: Surlyc on July 25, 2022, 10:02:59 AM
Quote from: toshes mate on July 24, 2022, 03:47:12 PMWhat did TK and CK offer other than the same analytics available to any football club with a PC and the software necessary to watch the marketplace 24/7/365 and why did Rigg leave so quickly after they began their reign? Those are questions that need answers although I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for them.
Those are very relevant questions and I think the unfortunate answer is an ambitious scion who wanted to make his name in a sporting operation where he could actually run everything (unlike the NFL, where the Jaguars have always had a General Manager). That necessitated the departure of any experienced heads like Rigg and a pause on hiring any replacement.
I don't think TK is overly bad, but he is definitely a rich kid who gets to play real life Football Manager/WWE GM mode. Nepotism is never a good thing in a business.
I really do not understand what happened but I do believe there are many other questions that arose from CK's rhetoric, his many rambling complaints about the state of English football which led to actions taken against him, and his general demeanour after he was dismissed by Khan Snr. It just seemed such a toxic environment so soon after such positive activity from Shahid Khan.
I would conjecture there was a lot of jealousy in the work place where the professionals were given a very hard time by the amateurs. What I didn't quote from my fact finding were the clear messages from Khan Snr about developing and enlarging Motspur Park with Mackintosh taking over the commercial reigns and the plans to develop the Riverside.
Khan Snr genuinely seemed so clear headed and long sighted and yet he seemingly changed his mind about directions of travel so suddenly in Summer 2016. Naivety perhaps but I think it may have been something else entirely. I'll probe further but I really don't know exactly where to look at the moment and so it is all stabbing in the dark.
If we had signed as many players as Forest - people would saying have we not learn from a 2018 when we signed virtually a new team; Schurrle, Le Marchand, Mawson, Seri, Anguissa, Fabri, ........... etc, that didn't work out too well!
Back then we got accused of buying for sake of buying, no team spirit, players who were part of the promotion being dislodged by overpaid mercenaries.
Will be interesting to see how Forest integrate all those players with the team that got them up, they will definitely have to overcome the us and them.
Have to hand it to Forest - they have supported their coach to the hilt with some excellent players - mostly proven to greater or lesser degrees in the Premiership or Championship.
Looking at our 2018 buys many had no Premiership or Championship pedigree so could be viewed as 'gambles.'
In my opinion have to say Forest appear to have a better balanced & proven squad compared to our 2018 intake, even if we had a better Championship promotion squad. Mind you hindsight is a wonderful gift!
Quote from: Lambo on July 25, 2022, 12:23:42 PM
If we had signed as many players as Forest - people would saying have we not learn from a 2018 when we signed virtually a new team; Schurrle, Le Marchand, Mawson, Seri, Anguissa, Fabri, ........... etc, that didn't work out too well!
Back then we got accused of buying for sake of buying, no team spirit, players who were part of the promotion being dislodged by overpaid mercenaries.
Will be interesting to see how Forest integrate all those players with the team that got them up, they will definitely have to overcome the us and them.
Joka wanted Premiership experienced players, instead Khan did the 'Moneyball' thing.
The main thing to remember is that with their loans and departures, Forest already needed to pay at least £50m on players get a squad that was close to what we had in the Championship last year, let alone one that is ready for the Premier League.
Their choice was either to spend a load of money to have any chance of being competitive, or go back down immediately - having paid nothing and pissed the fans off, or paying a 'moderate' amount for a slightly less awful relegation.
Just a Mod note, this is a thread about Notts Forest, though there will be obvious comparisons to how Fulham have fared in the same window, the discussion regarding TK is for the thread dealing with comments about TK (Tony Khan Thread Merged - Anything Tony Khan here ) (https://www.friendsoffulham.com/forum/index.php?topic=86541.0)). Can we keep this thread about Forest please?
This isn't about Forest but kind of relevant. Bournemouth are having what would appear to be an absolute shocker of a window with a side that wasn't as good as ours before the window opened.
And yet a quick look on their forums and most of them seem happy and at ease with what they have and are behind their club for the start of the season and have confidence that they will beat the drop. Its a bit of strange in comparison to here.
Quote from: Somerset Fulham on July 26, 2022, 02:10:38 PM
This isn't about Forest but kind of relevant. Bournemouth are having what would appear to be an absolute shocker of a window with a side that wasn't as good as ours before the window opened.
And yet a quick look on their forums and most of them seem happy and at ease with what they have and are behind their club for the start of the season and have confidence that they will beat the drop. Its a bit of strange in comparison to here.
It could be all over for them after 6 games; villa, Man C, Arsenal, Liverpool and Wolves...0 points and then loosing to Nottingham in GW6 could be the end!
Quote from: copthornemike on July 25, 2022, 12:51:53 PM
Have to hand it to Forest - they have supported their coach to the hilt with some excellent players - mostly proven to greater or lesser degrees in the Premiership or Championship.
Looking at our 2018 buys many had no Premiership or Championship pedigree so could be viewed as 'gambles.'
In my opinion have to say Forest appear to have a better balanced & proven squad compared to our 2018 intake, even if we had a better Championship promotion squad. Mind you hindsight is a wonderful gift!
Absolutely right and even if they get relegated - they will be in a much better position than us. A lot of their signiings will probably hang around ( unlike Anguissa Seri) or will have some resale value
Just signed some more, could be problems in the dressing room with everyone wanting to play also they have less than 2 weeks to blend them all together and it is a lot to organise.
Just taken their spending to £73.5 million with a midfielder from Stuttgart joining, with Alex Moreno (the left back we were linked to) set to join next.
Mad shopping trolley dash across Europe! Alex Moreno is an excellent left back, but they've already signed 2. He's also 29, and they wanted 10-12mil for him, which is why we walked away.
People were probably saying the same about us a few years ago........and that ended well !!!!
Quote from: Stevieboy on July 26, 2022, 06:29:21 PM
People were probably saying the same about us a few years ago........and that ended well !!!!
The difference is that they've signed players of a much higher calibre than we did
Quote from: Pluto on July 26, 2022, 07:16:29 PM
Quote from: Stevieboy on July 26, 2022, 06:29:21 PM
People were probably saying the same about us a few years ago........and that ended well !!!!
The difference is that they've signed players of a much higher calibre than we did
Have they though? Barely any of them have a great deal of PL experience, and those that do have never played in a decent PL team consistently other than Lingard who's had a 13 game spell over the last 5 years where he's done anything of note. If we were spending £15m on players from foreign leagues then over half this board would be in meltdown accusing TK of playing moneyball again
There's nothing wrong with keeping our core group of players, they helped win the Championship. Forrest is going to upset the apple cart, I imagine, but with five subs now, perhaps they're going the right way. We need three more players minimum. Goalkeeper, CB, striker (unless we keep Muniz, then another Defender)
Twelfth
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Quote from: Blawarmy on July 31, 2022, 11:37:20 AM
Twelfth
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I wouldn't swap any of them, in fact, I wouldn't swap all of them for Palhinha & Solomon.
Quote from: 70sPimlico on July 31, 2022, 12:13:50 PM
Quote from: Blawarmy on July 31, 2022, 11:37:20 AM
Twelfth
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I wouldn't swap any of them, in fact, I wouldn't swap all of them for Palhinha & Solomon.
Maybe a CB.
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With reports that Forest are signing Hwang Ui-Jo and Emmanuel Dennis I thought I'd revive this thread. Obviously LOTS of questions about what's going on at Forest, but I'm wondering what it says about Taiwo Awoniyi, a striker they spent 17M on in late June, that they're supposedly spending another $25M on strikers a month and a half after they brought him in???
Forest about to sign Maupay for £15m. That brings their spending on strikers to over £50m and their overall spending to £120m. A good £15m more than we spent and I don't think they're done yet.
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on August 14, 2022, 12:19:15 AM
Forest about to sign Maupay for £15m. That brings their spending on strikers to over £50m and their overall spending to £120m. A good £15m more than we spent and I don't think they're done yet.
It's pure insanity
Quote from: Chi_FFC on August 12, 2022, 03:37:09 PM
With reports that Forest are signing Hwang Ui-Jo and Emmanuel Dennis I thought I'd revive this thread. Obviously LOTS of questions about what's going on at Forest, but I'm wondering what it says about Taiwo Awoniyi, a striker they spent 17M on in late June, that they're supposedly spending another $25M on strikers a month and a half after they brought him in???
They're apparently sending the Korean lad to Olympiacos, in a pretty blatant FFP easing move for their common owner.
Now they're about to sign Aouar, Lyon midfielder.
Regardless of your take on it, you can't help but admire what they're doing to try and achieve survival. They really are building a decent squad there considering how much work was needed.
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 14, 2022, 01:19:07 PM
Regardless of your take on it, you can't help but admire what they're doing to try and achieve survival. They really are building a decent squad there considering how much work was needed.
Agreed.
In some instances the recruiting looks a bit haphazard - kind of buying players for the sake of buying them, with no regard for how they fit in to the way they play - but if they gel they could have a decent season.
It's going to be a very interesting season, you could mount a decent argument for any of the bottom 10 sides to find themselves in relegation trouble.
Quote from: FFC In Oz on August 14, 2022, 01:25:53 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 14, 2022, 01:19:07 PM
Regardless of your take on it, you can't help but admire what they're doing to try and achieve survival. They really are building a decent squad there considering how much work was needed.
Agreed.
In some instances the recruiting looks a bit haphazard - kind of buying players for the sake of buying them, with no regard for how they fit in to the way they play - but if they gel they could have a decent season.
It's going to be a very interesting season, you could mount a decent argument for any of the bottom 10 sides to find themselves in relegation trouble.
Absolutely. Could go further and suggest a few of those 7-10 historic teams could find themselves in Evertons position last year too with how competitive things are becoming (United perhaps) although things will likely start to level out and teams start to drop away. Just hope it isn't us!
Today must be the first time I've wanted WHU to win.
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 14, 2022, 01:19:07 PM
Regardless of your take on it, you can't help but admire what they're doing to try and achieve survival. They really are building a decent squad there considering how much work was needed.
Seems a bit early to celebrate the quality of their squad.
I must sat that this game is six minutes old and they already look a 1,000 times better than they did last week.
West Ham still comfortable though and look like they will weather the early storm.
Quote from: Tabby on August 14, 2022, 02:07:03 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 14, 2022, 01:19:07 PM
Regardless of your take on it, you can't help but admire what they're doing to try and achieve survival. They really are building a decent squad there considering how much work was needed.
Seems a bit early to celebrate the quality of their squad.
On paper I think it's at the least an admirable attempt at building a EPL squad no?
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 14, 2022, 02:09:24 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 14, 2022, 02:07:03 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 14, 2022, 01:19:07 PM
Regardless of your take on it, you can't help but admire what they're doing to try and achieve survival. They really are building a decent squad there considering how much work was needed.
Seems a bit early to celebrate the quality of their squad.
On paper I think it's at the least an admirable attempt at building a EPL squad no?
People were saying the same about our squad when we "did a Fulham". Vietto, Schürrle, Mawson, Anguissa, Seri, Fabri, Chambers and Fosu Mensah were all rated to do well before the season started.
Quote from: Tabby on August 14, 2022, 02:12:24 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 14, 2022, 02:09:24 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 14, 2022, 02:07:03 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 14, 2022, 01:19:07 PM
Regardless of your take on it, you can't help but admire what they're doing to try and achieve survival. They really are building a decent squad there considering how much work was needed.
Seems a bit early to celebrate the quality of their squad.
On paper I think it's at the least an admirable attempt at building a EPL squad no?
People were saying the same about our squad when we "did a Fulham". Vietto, Schürrle, Mawson, Anguissa, Seri, Fabri, Chambers and Fosu Mensah were all rated to do well before the season started.
Yeh, don't disagree but again, it was without hindsight, an admirable attempt. We also had a lot to do that season to build a squad good enough to compete. I'd wager Forest will do better than we did with what they've built but likely still fall short.
Benrahma has Neco on toast so far.
What a mistake by Antonio
Well this is weird.
Quote from: Somerset Fulham on August 14, 2022, 02:44:53 PM
Benrahma has Neco on toast so far.
In a weird way, I think both are playing good games really. Much as you'd expect, Neco much better going forwards.
Yep. Williams is much, much better going forward but Benrahma is ghosting past him at will.
Still, Forest one up and not really deserved. Its been a strange game.
Quote from: Tabby on August 14, 2022, 02:12:24 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 14, 2022, 02:09:24 PM
Quote from: Tabby on August 14, 2022, 02:07:03 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 14, 2022, 01:19:07 PM
Regardless of your take on it, you can't help but admire what they're doing to try and achieve survival. They really are building a decent squad there considering how much work was needed.
Seems a bit early to celebrate the quality of their squad.
On paper I think it's at the least an admirable attempt at building a EPL squad no?
People were saying the same about our squad when we "did a Fulham". Vietto, Schürrle, Mawson, Anguissa, Seri, Fabri, Chambers and Fosu Mensah were all rated to do well before the season started.
Not much recent, or any,Prem experience there, though - the Prem experienced Mawsome hardly played through injury, and Chambers was our Player of the Season, while our 'big' foreign signings of Seri, Anguissa, Fabri, Schurrle failed to impress, though having little time to integrate into the team.
Williams looking very good going forward for Forest, Linguard too.
Watching Neco's efforts it looks so familiar. Really positive in attack and a liability in defence. I always fancied him as a winger or attacking midfield
Dodgy ref decisions going Forests way. Again. [emoji848]
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It'll be interesting seeing if Forest can maintain this pace.
2-0
Maybe offside
Disallowed
Keepers now allowed to move in anticipation of the pen? rather than having to wait until the ball is kicked.
Thus the save from Mitro yesterday, and the Forest keeper's save today.
Makes converting a pen much tougher, though a pro should always be able to do it.
WHU won't score today even if they play all evening.
We should have signed Niakhate
Neco just cleared off the line
Quote from: Pluto on August 14, 2022, 03:39:23 PM
We should have signed Niakhate
Based on our opening games, defending hasn't been our issue. It's scoring goals. Dennis/Cornet might of been better. Be interested in who we end up with.
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 14, 2022, 01:19:07 PM
Regardless of your take on it, you can't help but admire what they're doing to try and achieve survival. They really are building a decent squad there considering how much work was needed.
And they are beating the ammers
They have to do something about time wasting in football. It makes the end of games so annoying and terrible to watch.
Can't believe they're going to sign Aouar, he's top quality. They've got a good squad now. More pressure on us to bring in some attacking quality.
WHU looking really bad the first two games.
Quote from: TheCeiling on August 14, 2022, 04:01:09 PM
WHU looking really bad the first two games.
What I found today is, When Bowen is crowded out, they just lack so much cutting edge.
Didn't think much of Forest defensively, and think they got very lucky at times, plus Henderson with some good saves. They do look a threat going forward though, and Dennis is another good addition. If they can tighten up at the back I think they'll be fine. Cooper is a good manager
More annoying that again, a team who we expect to be down and around relegation, play a team in the top half who aren't performing but manage to pick up a win. Something we really should of done too. Oh well. We'll just need to hope we can beat Brentford.
Quote from: TheCeiling on August 14, 2022, 04:01:09 PM
WHU looking really bad the first two games.
Yes...But they could have scored 5 today.
Was nice to see Forest shirts without sponsor crap written all over the front.
Well... spending 125m this window, perhaps forest have put all their eggs in a very well built basket...
Quote from: Mitrovic the warrior on August 14, 2022, 04:00:39 PM
Can't believe they're going to sign Aouar, he's top quality. They've got a good squad now. More pressure on us to bring in some attacking quality.
I agree with all of that, but if the rumours are true then they are signing him on top of having already signed Mangala and O'Brien, and have deals done for Kouyate and Freuler. That's 5 new central midfielders, which will cost north of £40m and lots more on wages, for 2 places in their team.
I get they had a lot of financial headroom given their squad, but they have still consistently made heavily losses the last few years in the Championship and it will be really, really interesting to see their accounts.
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on August 14, 2022, 04:10:06 PM
Was nice to see Forest shirts without sponsor crap written all over the front.
Where's all the money coming from. I sniff something very dodgy.
Sent from my SM-G990B using Tapatalk
Beware of Greeks bearing gifts ......
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on August 14, 2022, 04:10:06 PM
Was nice to see Forest shirts without sponsor crap written all over the front.
According to a forest fan at work they want 20 million for the front of their shirts apparently
Quote from: Blawarmy on August 14, 2022, 05:02:50 PM
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on August 14, 2022, 04:10:06 PM
Was nice to see Forest shirts without sponsor crap written all over the front.
Where's all the money coming from. I sniff something very dodgy.
Sent from my SM-G990B using Tapatalk
Just checked him out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelos_Marinakis
Lots of investigations about him match fixing and drug trafficking. Which he was cleared of all.
Right at the very bottom of the page it says (about the drug trafficking): "In January 2021 and after 10 witnesses of the case have already died, and after reviewing the case, the judge came to the conclusion that there was no evidence implicating Marinakis, and therefore concluded his investigation."
He is basically Greek Mafia.
Best stick with Shad. We are in a good place 051
Quote from: Colton F.C. on August 14, 2022, 05:36:57 PM
Best stick with Shad. We are in a good place 051
Shad is an astute business man. We may disagree with some decisions, but he's a genuine gem. I don't get good or even legal vibes from Notts Forest owners
Don't worry. If Forest keep winning games the owner will bet heavily on them being relegated and do whatever it takes to make it happen, LOL.
Quote from: Cambridge Away on August 14, 2022, 05:22:58 PM
Quote from: Blawarmy on August 14, 2022, 05:02:50 PM
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on August 14, 2022, 04:10:06 PM
Was nice to see Forest shirts without sponsor crap written all over the front.
Where's all the money coming from. I sniff something very dodgy.
Sent from my SM-G990B using Tapatalk
Just checked him out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelos_Marinakis
Lots of investigations about him match fixing and drug trafficking. Which he was cleared of all.
Right at the very bottom of the page it says (about the drug trafficking): "In January 2021 and after 10 witnesses of the case have already died, and after reviewing the case, the judge came to the conclusion that there was no evidence implicating Marinakis, and therefore concluded his investigation."
That's convenient... 067.gif
Quote from: Grassy Noel on August 14, 2022, 03:00:59 PM
Watching Neco's efforts it looks so familiar. Really positive in attack and a liability in defence. I always fancied him as a winger or attacking midfield
Wish we had signed him, could do with him with the injuries to our wingers.
Quote from: S.F.Sorrow on August 14, 2022, 05:52:23 PM
Don't worry. If Forest keep winning games the owner will bet heavily on them being relegated and do whatever it takes to make it happen, LOL.
You joke, but it was extremely mysterious circumstances that they beat Huddersfield with refereeing and VAR for two decisions.
Now, for legal purposes, i'm not saying he did NOT bribe some referees :005:, but if he DID :033:, then it is unfortunate for Huddersfield.
Switzerland midfielder Remo Freuler next for £7.6m.
Quote from: Cambridge Away on August 14, 2022, 05:22:58 PM
Quote from: Blawarmy on August 14, 2022, 05:02:50 PM
Quote from: Mince n Tatties on August 14, 2022, 04:10:06 PM
Was nice to see Forest shirts without sponsor crap written all over the front.
Where's all the money coming from. I sniff something very dodgy.
Sent from my SM-G990B using Tapatalk
Just checked him out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelos_Marinakis
Lots of investigations about him match fixing and drug trafficking. Which he was cleared of all.
Right at the very bottom of the page it says (about the drug trafficking): "In January 2021 and after 10 witnesses of the case have already died, and after reviewing the case, the judge came to the conclusion that there was no evidence implicating Marinakis, and therefore concluded his investigation."
However nothing to see here as I presume the FA have done due diligence with its famous fit and proper test.
I'd be careful with some of the allegations being put forward on here.
Quote from: davew on August 14, 2022, 06:16:41 PM
Quote from: Grassy Noel on August 14, 2022, 03:00:59 PM
Watching Neco's efforts it looks so familiar. Really positive in attack and a liability in defence. I always fancied him as a winger or attacking midfield
Wish we had signed him, could do with him with the injuries to our wingers.
For £17m we could buy a really good natural winger, never mind a wing back that can play as a winger.
Re Forest
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2022/aug/13/nottingham-forest-sudden-success-too-many-changes?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
Has Nottingham Forest's sudden ascent led to too many changes?
Jonathan Wilson
Promoted club have brought in more than a dozen players this summer, illustrating that progress can be destabilising
When was it that alarm bells began to ring? Was it when Omar Richards arrived from Bayern Munich for £8.5m to become Nottingham Forest's sixth summer signing? Was it Lewis O'Brien's £6m switch from Huddersfield? Or perhaps Remo Freuler, signed this past week from Atalanta for £7.6m, was one signing too many – and that was before a £20m fee was agreed for Emmanuel Dennis.
Saturday night's confirmation of that move means Forest have now brought in 15 players this summer at a cost of just under £110m, and they have been strongly linked with Morgan Gibbs‑White. That figure, irrespective of the quality of the players or the logic of each individual signing, is enough to inspire a qualm of anxiety.
Premier League history is dotted with the minatory lessons of the overspenders. Nobody wants to do a Middlesbrough 1996-97, a Derby 2006-07, a QPR 2011-12 or a Fulham 2018-19. The dangers of mass changes should be clear, but the riches of the Premier League can do strange things to directors.
Football transfer window summer 2022 – Europe's top five men's leagues
Six of Forest's new signings started the 2-0 defeat at Newcastle last Saturday and two more came off the bench. There were eight changes from the team that started the playoff final. If Forest looked disjointed, it's hardly surprising. While Forest's board have actively chosen the degree of turbulence, some level of flux is inevitable.
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Forest's rise was sudden. They were bottom when Steve Cooper was appointed in September and played themselves into the playoff spots only in April.
By the end of the season, they had five loanees as regular starters, none of whom joined the club on a permanent basis, while the goalkeeper Brice Samba refused a contract extension and left for Lens. That's immediately half a team that needs replacing, which is part of the problem of a strategy based on reducing liability by relying on loan deals. This is not to say such a policy is wrong as such – it may be financially necessary – but it does create instability.
Even leaving that aside, economic reality means that significant change is probably necessary if a promoted team are to compete. That there is a vast gulf between the Premier League and the Championship (and a growing one between the Championship and League One) is obvious. But there is something corrosive about that stratification; it's another little bit of football's soul lost in the pursuit of profit that has characterised the three decades of the Premier League era.
The cases of Ipswich in 1961-62 and Nottingham Forest in 1977-78, winning the title in their first season after promotion with essentially the same squad, are extreme, but might it not be nice if promotion did not mean having to replace the majority of the squad that achieved it? Anybody who has played a team sport at any level (or watched Ocean's 11 or The Dirty Dozen) knows the power of that sense of a group of often very different individuals coming together in common cause, different attributes meshing to create a whole that is greater than the sum of its parts.
Nottingham Forest captain John McGovern holds the League Championship trophy aloft as he and his team-mates celebrate their triumph in April 1978
Nottingham Forest captain John McGovern holds the League Championship trophy aloft as he and his team-mates celebrate their triumph in April 1978, (left-right) Tony Woodcock, John Robertson, Kenny Burns, McGovern, Peter Shilton, Viv Anderson and Colin Barrett. Photograph: PA Images
Maybe it's naive to believe that should be the case at the highest level as well – the idea of friendships within football has been scorned by enough former pros to make clear that it's an industry as grubby and bitter as any other – but for fans the idea the players wearing their colours have somehow committed to their values and their identity feels vital. What is a club, if it is not that feeling of communality? Otherwise there's a Trigger's broom situation: if you change every component, what makes it still Nottingham Forest?
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Yet that requires a significant suspension of disbelief. Players will move on for better offers. Clubs will jettison players they no longer need just as quickly – a tendency of which the current shenanigans at Barcelona are just an extreme example. Football is a brutal, mercenary world, the sense that it somehow matters based not quite on a fiction, but on something that is, at best, fleeting and ephemeral. Nowhere is that more apparent than in the case of a promoted side.
Even as the vital points are secured, or as the playoff final is won, executives are finalising plans of who to buy, how to bring in the necessary experience, the top-flight quality. And so, inevitably, of who to let go, who is unmitigatedly Championship in standard, whose wages have to be cleared from the books.
That is not to blame the execs; that is what they ought to be doing. In modern football there can be no passengers, no room for sentiment. Thanks very much for your service, stalwart box-to-boxer of the second-flight slog who dragged us over the line, but we've managed to get mid-table Ligue 1 side X down to 15mil for their up-and-coming holding midfielder Y.
Nottingham Forest manager Steve Cooper last weekend.
Nottingham Forest manager Steve Cooper last weekend. Photograph: Richard Lee/Shutterstock
Do players ever feel the futility of that, knowing there's a good chance that promotion will mean their departure? What emotional bonds can fans really form with players who are likely to be moved on for having achieved success? Progress can sometimes feel very destabilising; there is something oddly self-sacrificial in those players who cast their futures into doubt by winning promotion.
And what chance then a manager, not only having to cope with a step up in level, but also with moulding a squad of players who have never met before into a team? Even Danny Ocean was only putting together a team of 11 – and his casino robbers were not competing against better-resourced gangs who had been working together for years. Aston Villa bought 15 players in the summer of 2019 and survived, but only by a point and largely because they already had Jack Grealish.
The teams who do best having gone up – Brentford, Leeds, Wolves, Swansea – tend to be those with a clearly defined philosophy and a well-practised style. Success came too suddenly for Forest to be able to achieve that and the result is the mass purchase of this summer.
Cooper is a highly promising manager but turning this season into an episode of Ready Steady Cook has made his task almost impossibly hard.
Only one match in, but i get a feeling that Forest are about to prove that you can do well signing a whole new team. It is all about the quality. Ours (4 years ago) will go down as the worst window in the history of Fulham. Possibly in the game?
Quote from: Cambridge Away on August 15, 2022, 02:21:45 PM
Only one match in, but i get a feeling that Forest are about to prove that you can do well signing a whole new team. It is all about the quality. Ours (4 years ago) will go down as the worst window in the history of Fulham. Possibly in the game?
They got played off the park against Newcastle and VAR and some very wasteful West Ham finishing consipred to see them somehow get a win when they really should've lost. They've been bog standard in both games so far
Quote from: Deeping_white on August 15, 2022, 02:30:35 PM
Quote from: Cambridge Away on August 15, 2022, 02:21:45 PM
Only one match in, but i get a feeling that Forest are about to prove that you can do well signing a whole new team. It is all about the quality. Ours (4 years ago) will go down as the worst window in the history of Fulham. Possibly in the game?
They got played off the park against Newcastle and VAR and some very wasteful West Ham finishing consipred to see them somehow get a win when they really should've lost. They've been bog standard in both games so far
Says more that they haven't play well but managed more points than us though to some extent....
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 15, 2022, 02:42:19 PM
Quote from: Deeping_white on August 15, 2022, 02:30:35 PM
Quote from: Cambridge Away on August 15, 2022, 02:21:45 PM
Only one match in, but i get a feeling that Forest are about to prove that you can do well signing a whole new team. It is all about the quality. Ours (4 years ago) will go down as the worst window in the history of Fulham. Possibly in the game?
They got played off the park against Newcastle and VAR and some very wasteful West Ham finishing consipred to see them somehow get a win when they really should've lost. They've been bog standard in both games so far
Says more that they haven't play well but managed more points than us though to some extent....
Are you going to be really defeatist when it comes to us and Forest all season or what?
Quote from: Deeping_white on August 15, 2022, 02:49:38 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 15, 2022, 02:42:19 PM
Quote from: Deeping_white on August 15, 2022, 02:30:35 PM
Quote from: Cambridge Away on August 15, 2022, 02:21:45 PM
Only one match in, but i get a feeling that Forest are about to prove that you can do well signing a whole new team. It is all about the quality. Ours (4 years ago) will go down as the worst window in the history of Fulham. Possibly in the game?
They got played off the park against Newcastle and VAR and some very wasteful West Ham finishing consipred to see them somehow get a win when they really should've lost. They've been bog standard in both games so far
Says more that they haven't play well but managed more points than us though to some extent....
Are you going to be really defeatist when it comes to us and Forest all season or what?
Nope. Just not going to slag off a team who on paper, shouldn't have more points than us but do. That's credit to them. Once we pass them on the table and shoot towards midtable, I promise I'll be a happy camper :)
Good old Friends Of Forest. A great MB.
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 15, 2022, 02:51:31 PM
Quote from: Deeping_white on August 15, 2022, 02:49:38 PM
Quote from: FFC1987 on August 15, 2022, 02:42:19 PM
Quote from: Deeping_white on August 15, 2022, 02:30:35 PM
Quote from: Cambridge Away on August 15, 2022, 02:21:45 PM
Only one match in, but i get a feeling that Forest are about to prove that you can do well signing a whole new team. It is all about the quality. Ours (4 years ago) will go down as the worst window in the history of Fulham. Possibly in the game?
They got played off the park against Newcastle and VAR and some very wasteful West Ham finishing consipred to see them somehow get a win when they really should've lost. They've been bog standard in both games so far
Says more that they haven't play well but managed more points than us though to some extent....
Are you going to be really defeatist when it comes to us and Forest all season or what?
Nope. Just not going to slag off a team who on paper, shouldn't have more points than us but do. That's credit to them. Once we pass them on the table and shoot towards midtable, I promise I'll be a happy camper :)
Our opening two fixtures were objectively tougher than them so not sure how you come to that conlcusion. Based on last season we've played 2nd and 10th, they got 7th and 11th so realistically always stood a better chance of getting more points than we would
15 players in now, and at least a few more incoming :)
Quote from: We Are Premier League on August 15, 2022, 03:27:11 PM
15 players in now, and at least a few more incoming :)
Tell me when they sign the 1,000th.
Quote from: Deeping_white on August 15, 2022, 02:30:35 PM
Quote from: Cambridge Away on August 15, 2022, 02:21:45 PM
Only one match in, but i get a feeling that Forest are about to prove that you can do well signing a whole new team. It is all about the quality. Ours (4 years ago) will go down as the worst window in the history of Fulham. Possibly in the game?
They got played off the park against Newcastle and VAR and some very wasteful West Ham finishing consipred to see them somehow get a win when they really should've lost. They've been bog standard in both games so far
I wasn't comparing them to us this season (it was the our squad 4 years ago i was comparing). Just saying that they are not on zero points, which you would expect from a team that needs time to gel. If they are already looking "bog standard" that's a success right?
Lingard would have been a great signing, always good for a goal.
Great Business for Forest.
Gibbs-White for £45m
Why doesn't FPP apply to them ?
Hmm A lot of Forest fans (on twitter) seem to think they might still have more to spend. I can't work it out to be honest.
Quote from: Baszab on August 18, 2022, 02:18:28 PM
Gibbs-White for £45m
Why doesn't FPP apply to them ?
Presumably losses are over the next 3 years so can tighten their belts for the next season or 2? They have signed some good risk free (as risk free as you can get) players so I can see them building a team that won't need touch changing for a few years.
But I have no idea really!
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That is a complete waste of money.
Not jealous in the slightest, but I hope they fall on their sword with this. No way can they justify this much spending and comply with FFP
I think they can just stay clear of ffp if they stay up, if they go down then I believe they will be in big trouble. Also the fifa salaries to turnover comes in next season does it not
Quote from: bobby01 on August 18, 2022, 02:46:36 PM
I think they can just stay clear of ffp if they stay up, if they go down then I believe they will be in big trouble. Also the fifa salaries to turnover comes in next season does it not
Not if all the contracts have sensible relegation clauses, they should be fine.
I don't see how they can be compliant even staying up. What is it now in fees, £170m atleast then add agents fees then amortise that and add wages (Lingard alone is a huge amount). Something very dodgy going on, hardly surprising given what their owner has got away with previously. Barely anything being asked by the media who I assume are too scared of the bloke.
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At this point they seem to double our spending and amount of signings from the "doing a fulham" season. They're spending Manchester City after being bought money.
I completely understand that they needed to sign a lot of players, but their approach is also pretty mad. They're essentially looking to compress 3 or 4 transfer windows of spend/movement into 1, and there is a lot of risk there.
There are a lot of signings (and fees and wages) committed to players who will spend a lot of time on the bench.
Quote from: HarryBayles on August 18, 2022, 02:53:39 PM
I don't see how they can be compliant even staying up. What is it now in fees, £170m atleast then add agents fees then amortise that and add wages (Lingard alone is a huge amount). Something very dodgy going on, hardly surprising given what their owner has got away with previously. Barely anything being asked by the media who I assume are too scared of the bloke.
PL (only) FFP is different to FFP if you're in the football league or if you're not playing European Football.
As this is their first year they have loads of financial flexibility - but the reality will be that if they stay up they will be massively constrained the next couple of seasons. Obviously if they go back down there is a lot of risk and you would hope they've got the right clauses in contracts.
You have to wonder how involved Cooper is in these deals really.
Nottingham Forest have overpaid for Morgan Gibbs-White if the £45m figure is true.
This is the last time I'm going to say it, but Fabio must be worth near £70m if this is how we're pricing players
Quote from: Somerset Fulham on August 18, 2022, 03:25:46 PM
You have to wonder how involved Cooper is in these deals really.
Just seen his press conference and he said likely to be even more incoming (and outgoings).
He gave me the impression he has absolutely no say in the matter. Think the owner is acting like he is playing FIFA or something.
Quote from: HarryBayles on August 18, 2022, 02:53:39 PM
I don't see how they can be compliant even staying up. What is it now in fees, £170m atleast then add agents fees then amortise that and add wages (Lingard alone is a huge amount). Something very dodgy going on, hardly surprising given what their owner has got away with previously. Barely anything being asked by the media who I assume are too scared of the bloke.
As the ref seemed to be in the playoff final denying Sheff Utd 2 goals
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