My stream cut out just before he scored so only just seen it. My oh my what a fantastic goal, so calm and composed in front of goal. This just proves my point recently that we need to see him getting forward and taking more shots, especially when we're struggling for goals of late. Hopefully he can do that more often now.
i cant see marco picking tc ahead of reed and so he will have to settle for coming off the bench. and sometimes what with time wasting or should i say game management he may only get a handful of meaningful touches. sad thing is tc starts fa cup games but if we got to wembley would marco then pick his strongest side with tc on the bench?
Given the rumours of strengthening the midfield in the window or the summer, it's probably his last few months with us. Still a wonderful player, probably has one more promotion from the Championship in him for a club playing the right way.
Quote from: wback on January 29, 2023, 01:30:07 PM
Given the rumours of strengthening the midfield in the window or the summer, it's probably his last few months with us. Still a wonderful player, probably has one more promotion from the Championship in him for a club playing the right way.
Nonsense!
I love Tom and want to see him retire here. Still believe there is a place for him at the club and he offers something fairly unique in the squad atm. In fact, I do not feel he should have been taken off yesterday (should have been Pereria) and we lost creativity in the last 10 mins without him
However we need to stop the endless Cairney threads. Yes it was a great goal, but against a defence just promoted from league one, in the premier league he is tackled and we're asking why didnt he shoot earlier. He is not a premier league starter and we should not change the system to accommodate him. Lets accept and celebrate him for what he is off the bench
When he comes on he shows his class, I just wonder if he has fitness/injury issues and struggles over 90.
My one issue with Marco is his in game management.
TC was pulling all the strings and was easily MOTM
Ludicrous to substitute him.
Marco, what game were you watching !
My one issue with Marco is his in game management.
TC was pulling all the strings and was easily MOTM
Ludicrous to substitute him.
Marco, what game were you watching !
Quote from: ffcthereligion on January 29, 2023, 02:00:55 PM
I love Tom and want to see him retire here. Still believe there is a place for him at the club and he offers something fairly unique in the squad atm. In fact, I do not feel he should have been taken off yesterday (should have been Pereria) and we lost creativity in the last 10 mins without him
However we need to stop the endless Cairney threads. Yes it was a great goal, but against a defence just promoted from league one, in the premier league he is tackled and we're asking why didnt he shoot earlier. He is not a premier league starter and we should not change the system to accommodate him. Lets accept and celebrate him for what he is off the bench
Well for a start he never gets in the sort of position to take a shot in the Premier League, he's rarely to be found anywhere close to the box.
I think a lot of people do not understand substitutions. It's not a punishment. It's not because a player is ineffectual. It may be to make the other members of the team to take some responsibility and make new things happen. It could also be to make sure he is ready if or the next match as he may be carrying an injury.
This something all supporters do, jumping to conclusions without knowing why a substitution or certain decisions are made on and off the pitch. I was having this discussion with someone on another site, he was quite aggressive saying that MS had made a mistake in taking TC off, I tried to reason with the guy saying that at the time MS thought it was the right thing to do, hindsight is always the answer when things don't work out.
Quote from: wback on January 29, 2023, 01:30:07 PM
Given the rumours of strengthening the midfield in the window or the summer, it's probably his last few months with us. Still a wonderful player, probably has one more promotion from the Championship in him for a club playing the right way.
This is a sensible post..
Quote from: Takemehome27 on January 29, 2023, 01:55:31 PM
Quote from: wback on January 29, 2023, 01:30:07 PM
Given the rumours of strengthening the midfield in the window or the summer, it's probably his last few months with us. Still a wonderful player, probably has one more promotion from the Championship in him for a club playing the right way.
Nonsense!
Beyond nonsense
Quote from: ex-Pat on January 30, 2023, 03:02:19 PM
Quote from: wback on January 29, 2023, 01:30:07 PM
Given the rumours of strengthening the midfield in the window or the summer, it's probably his last few months with us. Still a wonderful player, probably has one more promotion from the Championship in him for a club playing the right way.
This is a sensible post..
I bet you said the same thing about Tim Ream
Quote from: ex-Pat on January 30, 2023, 03:02:19 PM
Quote from: wback on January 29, 2023, 01:30:07 PM
Given the rumours of strengthening the midfield in the window or the summer, it's probably his last few months with us. Still a wonderful player, probably has one more promotion from the Championship in him for a club playing the right way.
This is a sensible post..
Why?
It's amazing really, he Scores a worldy yet still gets slagged off...
Rewatch that goal, the speed the ball comes into him from that cross, he controls it so perfectly then takes it down then bluffs two players and casually nets it like no other,
If Pierra or Mitrovic scored that goal they'd all be creaming themselves
It's been a tough time for TC managing his knee(s) and the many differences between keeping up a promotion challenge or tempering a survival regime with moments of serious hope. But the guy handles it all with elegance and flair, a welcome relief from the clumsiness and guile from the many who lack his ball skills. He is still a class act.
Quote from: toshes mate on February 01, 2023, 08:23:25 AM
It's been a tough time for TC managing his knee(s) and the many differences between keeping up a promotion challenge or tempering a survival regime with moments of serious hope. But the guy handles it all with elegance and flair, a welcome relief from the clumsiness and guile from the many who lack his ball skills. He is still a class act.
Totally agree, my only issue, he has a fantastic left foot but he does not shoot often enough.
Would not swap him for anyone.
Quote from: Twig on January 30, 2023, 04:49:59 PM
Why?
Another year in the legs, at least 1-2 more incomers in that general area, another year on the bench ahead.
I think he'll probably be offered the chance to move on and will take it?
This is in no way slagging Cairney off, he is a wonderful footballer and been a magnificent player for Fulham over many years.
However
He has weaknesses and I think most Fulhams know this. He is very one footed and most importantly for a central midfield player most games he lacks dynamism. The game v Sunderland showed this perfectly, playing from the start with Pereira in front of him left only Palhinha covering the back 4. Marco likes us to play with our full backs high and that leaves space. Cainey can't get back to cover and that leaves more space, hence an open game where we look vulnerable to the counter attack. Cairney is really a no10 but does not run beyond Mitro like Pereira,
Coming on for the final 20 minutes is perfect as the game has by then slowed down and Tom can get hold of the ball and dictate.
I think we will carry on with Tom as super sub and Reed and Lukic fighting it out for the no 8, with one replacing the other, not sure if this means Tom will be fighting it out with Pereira or not. Will be interesting to see how Marco now manages the midfield with 5 very good options. Lukic could be in competition with Palhinho however I think at the moment Palhinho is undroppable, rather like Mitro, Leno, Willian, Tete, Robinson and possibly Ream.
Completely brilliant goal from Tom - shows he's still got it, as do his recent performances generally, when he's come on.
Some fans always seem keen to write off our players, and saying this is his last season with Fulham, and he could help a Championship team win promotion, seems so insulting to the man, who still has terrific, game changing ability, and has been a Fulham hero - and still is.
Quote from: StuinSalop on February 01, 2023, 09:18:58 AM
This is in no way slagging Cairney off, he is a wonderful footballer and been a magnificent player for Fulham over many years.
However
He has weaknesses and I think most Fulhams know this. He is very one footed and most importantly for a central midfield player most games he lacks dynamism. The game v Sunderland showed this perfectly, playing from the start with Pereira in front of him left only Palhinha covering the back 4. Marco likes us to play with our full backs high and that leaves space. Cainey can't get back to cover and that leaves more space, hence an open game where we look vulnerable to the counter attack. Cairney is really a no10 but does not run beyond Mitro like Pereira,
Coming on for the final 20 minutes is perfect as the game has by then slowed down and Tom can get hold of the ball and dictate.
I think we will carry on with Tom as super sub and Reed and Lukic fighting it out for the no 8, with one replacing the other, not sure if this means Tom will be fighting it out with Pereira or not. Will be interesting to see how Marco now manages the midfield with 5 very good options. Lukic could be in competition with Palhinho however I think at the moment Palhinho is undroppable, rather like Mitro, Leno, Willian, Tete, Robinson and possibly Ream.
I think he'll swap 2 midfielders in the second half every game now, he probably would have done the same had the second aubstitute midfielder not been Chalobah. Now I think Palhinha, Reed/Lukic and Andreas will be starters with Cairney and Reed/Lukic coming on for the two that are more tired/in danger of getting a second yellow.
Lukic has played at dm a lot, he's a deeper player than Cairney, much more similar to Reed and Palhinia.
Cairney is still our truly only creative central player, capable of assist and goal, other than Andreas.
The way Jao and Harrison play with constant crunching tackles there will be plenty of cards and injuries in the future, seems like the Serbs a similar type of player
There's plenty of room in this squad for TC and anyone that's writing him off simply hasn't got the foggiest
Quote from: StuinSalop on February 01, 2023, 09:18:58 AM
This is in no way slagging Cairney off, he is a wonderful footballer and been a magnificent player for Fulham over many years.
However
He has weaknesses and I think most Fulhams know this. He is very one footed and most importantly for a central midfield player most games he lacks dynamism. The game v Sunderland showed this perfectly, playing from the start with Pereira in front of him left only Palhinha covering the back 4. Marco likes us to play with our full backs high and that leaves space. Cainey can't get back to cover and that leaves more space, hence an open game where we look vulnerable to the counter attack. Cairney is really a no10 but does not run beyond Mitro like Pereira,
Coming on for the final 20 minutes is perfect as the game has by then slowed down and Tom can get hold of the ball and dictate.
I think we will carry on with Tom as super sub and Reed and Lukic fighting it out for the no 8, with one replacing the other, not sure if this means Tom will be fighting it out with Pereira or not. Will be interesting to see how Marco now manages the midfield with 5 very good options. Lukic could be in competition with Palhinho however I think at the moment Palhinho is undroppable, rather like Mitro, Leno, Willian, Tete, Robinson and possibly Ream.
Possible Ream?
100% Ream.
Tosin and Diop seems way less assured then Diop and Ream
Quote from: StuinSalop on February 01, 2023, 09:18:58 AM
This is in no way slagging Cairney off, he is a wonderful footballer and been a magnificent player for Fulham over many years.
However
He has weaknesses ...
Every human being has weaknesses and in life and sport generally 'would be opponents' seek to find out what they are. Often the weakness is exagerrated by observers which is what has happened to e.g. Tim Ream. Not so strangely Tom's strength - his left foot - becomes his weakness because his right leg is standing room only. The same things were said about Johnny Haynes and how opponents could stifle him. Some successes at stifling led to punters calling FFC a one man team. Of course the observations appeared correct when the Maestro counter activity work but his evolved solution (how Haynes and the team overcame the tactics) deserved the same accolade but seldom got it, especially upon the next time FFC were caused to falter with Haynes playing.
Cairney has little to prove to anyone especially so during the Jokanovic era and that same guy plays even now. I know people want to see him plant the ball in the net from the fringes of the penalty box but Tom knows how quickly shots are charged down from his favourite spots at this level of football. The guy has a really good football brain.
Quote from: toshes mate on February 02, 2023, 09:14:48 AM
Quote from: StuinSalop on February 01, 2023, 09:18:58 AM
This is in no way slagging Cairney off, he is a wonderful footballer and been a magnificent player for Fulham over many years.
However
He has weaknesses ...
Every human being has weaknesses and in life and sport generally 'would be opponents' seek to find out what they are. Often the weakness is exagerrated by observers which is what has happened to e.g. Tim Ream. Not so strangely Tom's strength - his left foot - becomes his weakness because his right leg is standing room only. The same things were said about Johnny Haynes and how opponents could stifle him. Some successes at stifling led to punters calling FFC a one man team. Of course the observations appeared correct when the Maestro counter activity work but his evolved solution (how Haynes and the team overcame the tactics) deserved the same accolade but seldom got it, especially upon the next time FFC were caused to falter with Haynes playing.
Cairney has little to prove to anyone especially so during the Jokanovic era and that same guy plays even now. I know people want to see him plant the ball in the net from the fringes of the penalty box but Tom knows how quickly shots are charged down from his favourite spots at this level of football. The guy has a really good football brain.
You're missing my main point which is not his one footed ness but the fact that when he playes we are more open as his defensive qualities are poor. It's a question of team balance and finding the best way to use Tom and his skills are key. My view is his 20 minute cameo in games is just about perfect.
As for Johnny Haynes, I did watch him but it was after his car crash so I never saw the great man at his best, indeed towards the end of his career he sometimes held Fulham back. ( duck to avoid incoming abuse).
Quote from: StuinSalop on February 02, 2023, 09:27:10 AM
Quote from: toshes mate on February 02, 2023, 09:14:48 AM
Quote from: StuinSalop on February 01, 2023, 09:18:58 AM
This is in no way slagging Cairney off, he is a wonderful footballer and been a magnificent player for Fulham over many years.
However
He has weaknesses ...
Every human being has weaknesses and in life and sport generally 'would be opponents' seek to find out what they are. Often the weakness is exagerrated by observers which is what has happened to e.g. Tim Ream. Not so strangely Tom's strength - his left foot - becomes his weakness because his right leg is standing room only. The same things were said about Johnny Haynes and how opponents could stifle him. Some successes at stifling led to punters calling FFC a one man team. Of course the observations appeared correct when the Maestro counter activity work but his evolved solution (how Haynes and the team overcame the tactics) deserved the same accolade but seldom got it, especially upon the next time FFC were caused to falter with Haynes playing.
Cairney has little to prove to anyone especially so during the Jokanovic era and that same guy plays even now. I know people want to see him plant the ball in the net from the fringes of the penalty box but Tom knows how quickly shots are charged down from his favourite spots at this level of football. The guy has a really good football brain.
You're missing my main point which is not his one footed ness but the fact that when he playes we are more open as his defensive qualities are poor. It's a question of team balance and finding the best way to use Tom and his skills are key. My view is his 20 minute cameo in games is just about perfect.
As for Johnny Haynes, I did watch him but it was after his car crash so I never saw the great man at his best, indeed towards the end of his career he sometimes held Fulham back. ( duck to avoid incoming abuse).
I think you are over egging your point since I would assume Tom is under instruction as to how to play and preserve fitness and his dodgy knees. FFC's defensive weaknesses, most recently predominately observed in the Parker era in the PL was because the midfield was never fit for purpose and failed to hold breakaways long enough to foil them. Of course Cairney, as one of eleven defenders, is to blame when opponents score but in my books he doesn't weaken a team when he plays. It is all opinion.
I feel compelled to say that there is a lot of balderdash spouted here. Tom Cairney was outstanding against Sunderland & was our playmaker. Yep, very one-footed but he oozes class, can spot a pass early & can score some scorchers. Rather than babble out his demise, I believe we should be examining ways to make the team more effective with him included!
Quote from: Bracken White on February 02, 2023, 01:36:50 PM
I feel compelled to say that there is a lot of balderdash spouted here. Tom Cairney was outstanding against Sunderland & was our playmaker. Yep, very one-footed but he oozes class, can spot a pass early & can score some scorchers. Rather than babble out his demise, I believe we should be examining ways to make the team more effective with him included!
Completely agree with this, he is one of our only attacking, creative midfielders. I can't think of a player in our team that can control a game the way he can.
Well you may think that I am talking rubbish but I think Marco probably agrees with me because he does not start Tom and my observations explained above a likely to a reason why. It's all about opinions and on the ball Tom is as good as anyone and better than most. However football matches are won and lost depending on how effective a team is a scoring AND no conceding. Playing 4-2-3-1 with Tom as one of the 2 midfield players creates issues. I would in fact suggest v Sunderland we played a more 4-1-4-1 with Tom and Pereira as more advanced in midfield leave space for Sunderland to attack.
Quote from: StuinSalop on February 02, 2023, 01:57:22 PM
Well you may think that I am talking rubbish but I think Marco probably agrees with me because he does not start Tom and my observations explained above a likely to a reason why. It's all about opinions and on the ball Tom is as good as anyone and better than most. However football matches are won and lost depending on how effective a team is a scoring AND no conceding. Playing 4-2-3-1 with Tom as one of the 2 midfield players creates issues. I would in fact suggest v Sunderland we played a more 4-1-4-1 with Tom and Pereira as more advanced in midfield leave space for Sunderland to attack.
100% agree with this. Tom is good but lets not kid ourselves, he shines the most against lesser opposition. He is not good enough to start in the prem but is a very good impact sub to play balls for when we bring on pacey players in the last 10-15
Quote from: Sammyffc on February 02, 2023, 03:53:22 PM
Quote from: StuinSalop on February 02, 2023, 01:57:22 PM
Well you may think that I am talking rubbish but I think Marco probably agrees with me because he does not start Tom and my observations explained above a likely to a reason why. It's all about opinions and on the ball Tom is as good as anyone and better than most. However football matches are won and lost depending on how effective a team is a scoring AND no conceding. Playing 4-2-3-1 with Tom as one of the 2 midfield players creates issues. I would in fact suggest v Sunderland we played a more 4-1-4-1 with Tom and Pereira as more advanced in midfield leave space for Sunderland to attack.
100% agree with this. Tom is good but lets not kid ourselves, he shines the most against lesser opposition. He is not good enough to start in the prem but is a very good impact sub to play balls for when we bring on pacey players in the last 10-15
He's shone every time he's come on this season regardless of what quality of opposition we were playing. That said I tend to reluctantly agree that his future is coming off the bench but I would strongly argue that there have been multiple times when Marco has left it a bit too late to bring him on.
Quote from: Sammyffc on February 02, 2023, 03:53:22 PM
Quote from: StuinSalop on February 02, 2023, 01:57:22 PM
Well you may think that I am talking rubbish but I think Marco probably agrees with me because he does not start Tom and my observations explained above a likely to a reason why. It's all about opinions and on the ball Tom is as good as anyone and better than most. However football matches are won and lost depending on how effective a team is a scoring AND no conceding. Playing 4-2-3-1 with Tom as one of the 2 midfield players creates issues. I would in fact suggest v Sunderland we played a more 4-1-4-1 with Tom and Pereira as more advanced in midfield leave space for Sunderland to attack.
100% agree with this. Tom is good but lets not kid ourselves, he shines the most against lesser opposition. He is not good enough to start in the prem but is a very good impact sub to play balls for when we bring on pacey players in the last 10-15
Tom is not good enough to start in the Prem ?
In your opinion that is, I have a completely different opinion....
Please add an IMO when spouting like that
How bad are Tom's knees? I know that was what kept him out for nearly a year from 20-21 to 21-22, and there have been reports in the past that he's been avoiding training due to pain (end of our promotion season under SP?) but is there any news that suggests he's managing them still now?
Feel that gets posted a lot but I have no idea how true it is. Same with the 'he can't complete 90 minutes perspective' - I think he's played the full 90 just fine a few times this year, the reason he doesn't is purely tactical from MS.
Quote from: perry geyton on February 02, 2023, 07:04:38 PM
Quote from: Sammyffc on February 02, 2023, 03:53:22 PM
Quote from: StuinSalop on February 02, 2023, 01:57:22 PM
Well you may think that I am talking rubbish but I think Marco probably agrees with me because he does not start Tom and my observations explained above a likely to a reason why. It's all about opinions and on the ball Tom is as good as anyone and better than most. However football matches are won and lost depending on how effective a team is a scoring AND no conceding. Playing 4-2-3-1 with Tom as one of the 2 midfield players creates issues. I would in fact suggest v Sunderland we played a more 4-1-4-1 with Tom and Pereira as more advanced in midfield leave space for Sunderland to attack.
100% agree with this. Tom is good but lets not kid ourselves, he shines the most against lesser opposition. He is not good enough to start in the prem but is a very good impact sub to play balls for when we bring on pacey players in the last 10-15
Tom is not good enough to start in the Prem ?
In your opinion that is, I have a completely different opinion....
Please add an IMO when spouting like that
Absolutely he's good enough Perry (imo lol), I think it's just a question of his physical condition and the way Silva uses him suggests that he might not be able to stand up to the demands of playing a full 90 mins regularly.
Quote from: StuinSalop on February 02, 2023, 01:57:22 PM
Well you may think that I am talking rubbish but I think Marco probably agrees with me because he does not start Tom and my observations explained above a likely to a reason why. It's all about opinions and on the ball Tom is as good as anyone and better than most. However football matches are won and lost depending on how effective a team is a scoring AND no conceding. Playing 4-2-3-1 with Tom as one of the 2 midfield players creates issues. I would in fact suggest v Sunderland we played a more 4-1-4-1 with Tom and Pereira as more advanced in midfield leave space for Sunderland to attack.
100% agree with you SS.
Quote from: Twig on February 02, 2023, 07:47:08 PM
Quote from: perry geyton on February 02, 2023, 07:04:38 PM
Quote from: Sammyffc on February 02, 2023, 03:53:22 PM
Quote from: StuinSalop on February 02, 2023, 01:57:22 PM
Well you may think that I am talking rubbish but I think Marco probably agrees with me because he does not start Tom and my observations explained above a likely to a reason why. It's all about opinions and on the ball Tom is as good as anyone and better than most. However football matches are won and lost depending on how effective a team is a scoring AND no conceding. Playing 4-2-3-1 with Tom as one of the 2 midfield players creates issues. I would in fact suggest v Sunderland we played a more 4-1-4-1 with Tom and Pereira as more advanced in midfield leave space for Sunderland to attack.
100% agree with this. Tom is good but lets not kid ourselves, he shines the most against lesser opposition. He is not good enough to start in the prem but is a very good impact sub to play balls for when we bring on pacey players in the last 10-15
Tom is not good enough to start in the Prem ?
In your opinion that is, I have a completely different opinion....
Please add an IMO when spouting like that
Absolutely he's good enough Perry (imo lol), I think it's just a question of his physical condition and the way Silva uses him suggests that he might not be able to stand up to the demands of playing a full 90 mins regularly.
I think he can play a full 90 Twig
The whole his knees are shot thing is a load of nonsense to me, he was previously injured but now he's not...
People do recover from injuries he's not that old,
We all know Marco likes to play fast that's why Peirrah always starts ahead of him but when it's not working he switches to Tom a slower build up play YES but the boy has the best feet and most skill in our team and can pick a pass like know one else PLUS he can shoot a ball
The whole he's not good enough for the Prem mentality is completely redundant and sheepy logic, as Tom has proved on so many occasions
Same applies to Tim Ream who's proved so many doubters wrong this season,
Quote from: perry geyton on February 02, 2023, 07:04:38 PM
Quote from: Sammyffc on February 02, 2023, 03:53:22 PM
Quote from: StuinSalop on February 02, 2023, 01:57:22 PM
Well you may think that I am talking rubbish but I think Marco probably agrees with me because he does not start Tom and my observations explained above a likely to a reason why. It's all about opinions and on the ball Tom is as good as anyone and better than most. However football matches are won and lost depending on how effective a team is a scoring AND no conceding. Playing 4-2-3-1 with Tom as one of the 2 midfield players creates issues. I would in fact suggest v Sunderland we played a more 4-1-4-1 with Tom and Pereira as more advanced in midfield leave space for Sunderland to attack.
100% agree with this. Tom is good but lets not kid ourselves, he shines the most against lesser opposition. He is not good enough to start in the prem but is a very good impact sub to play balls for when we bring on pacey players in the last 10-15
Tom is not good enough to start in the Prem ?
In your opinion that is, I have a completely different opinion....
Please add an IMO when spouting like that
IMO he isn't , and the stats back it up.
73 appearences in the prem, 3 goals 2 assists. are you really sitting there telling me thats prem quality? come on....
Anguissa played as a CDM and has more assists than him ( 3 ) in 14 less games in the prem
Pereira has 21 appearences for us and 2 goals , 5 assists ....
Reed has 20 appearences 1 goal 2 assists..
Palhinha has the same amout of goals as him as a CDM ....
So how on earth is Tom prem level ?
Quote from: Sammyffc on February 03, 2023, 03:22:33 AM
Quote from: perry geyton on February 02, 2023, 07:04:38 PM
Quote from: Sammyffc on February 02, 2023, 03:53:22 PM
Quote from: StuinSalop on February 02, 2023, 01:57:22 PM
Well you may think that I am talking rubbish but I think Marco probably agrees with me because he does not start Tom and my observations explained above a likely to a reason why. It's all about opinions and on the ball Tom is as good as anyone and better than most. However football matches are won and lost depending on how effective a team is a scoring AND no conceding. Playing 4-2-3-1 with Tom as one of the 2 midfield players creates issues. I would in fact suggest v Sunderland we played a more 4-1-4-1 with Tom and Pereira as more advanced in midfield leave space for Sunderland to attack.
100% agree with this. Tom is good but lets not kid ourselves, he shines the most against lesser opposition. He is not good enough to start in the prem but is a very good impact sub to play balls for when we bring on pacey players in the last 10-15
Tom is not good enough to start in the Prem ?
In your opinion that is, I have a completely different opinion....
Please add an IMO when spouting like that
IMO he isn't , and the stats back it up.
73 appearences in the prem, 3 goals 2 assists. are you really sitting there telling me thats prem quality? come on....
Anguissa played as a CDM and has more assists than him ( 3 ) in 14 less games in the prem
Pereira has 21 appearences for us and 2 goals , 5 assists ....
Reed has 20 appearences 1 goal 2 assists..
Palhinha has the same amout of goals as him as a CDM ....
So how on earth is Tom prem level ?
Yeah I'm telling you he's quality stat boy 100%
Tell me Sammy what was your opinion on Tim Ream continuing on at the end of last season? I'm curious to know
Tom is a sublime footballer.A great ball retainer as well as a creator. We all know that . But he hasn't started many games for a reason . He's not the ball winning ,everywhere central midfielder ,nor the pressing forward thinking number ten we have at present . We. are more open as a team with Tom playing centrally. Marco has found the perfect role for him : significant sub that changes games from the bench and helps us either dominate possession or retain it more as we see games out. Definitely good enough for the premiership in his new role.
All teams need playmakers and team mates on much the same wavelength as each other. But playmakers who can fulill other roles reliably in every game are few and far between. Hence the all singing and dancing goalkeepers, defenders, midfielders and even forwards. Contemporary football demands versatility in much the same way as athletics demands runners who are good at the beginning, the middle and the end of races. But you will hear athletics coaches talk about the middle of races and how important it is to be effective and ensure the race is won before it even enters its final phase. Football is the same in what it demands in midfield and that is a reason why so many formations appear to exist.
Jokanovic insisted on nothing but effective partnerships and so the midfield roamed wherever it wanted until a defence was in disarray. Silva's team ethic is for a more cohesive midfield which can penetrate via width or narrowness just as effectively and even miss out the midfield altogether if offside can be avoided. The whole is about versatility and how many not so versatile players you can afford to start with and not be carrying passengers. Parker couldn't even afford space for Mitro because he never understood forward play or how much effort the Serbian put into his game. That is why he failed. Silva is much more on a wavelength with individuals but he does not have a large squad to play around with. Hence solutions are much more limited and yet he still manages to produce some exceptional performances from the squad.
Cairney is a richly talented player whose history has been littered by injuries. He has been managed for these physical issues ever since his initial 'op' and I don't think there is any other reason for his 'shorter' cameos than that.
tom cairney - the man with premier league feet but Sunday league legs
Quote from: colinwhite on February 03, 2023, 05:33:15 AM
Tom is a sublime footballer.A great ball retainer as well as a creator. We all know that . But he hasn't started many games for a reason . He's not the ball winning ,everywhere central midfielder ,nor the pressing forward thinking number ten we have at present . We. are more open as a team with Tom playing centrally. Marco has found the perfect role for him : significant sub that changes games from the bench and helps us either dominate possession or retain it more as we see games out. Definitely good enough for the premiership in his new role.
Great summary - TC is quality
Quote from: spoonffc on February 03, 2023, 09:09:32 AM
tom cairney - the man with premier league feet but Sunday league legs
I get that views differ, but I really don't get utterly hyperbolic statements like this one.
A recent example to look at is the Man U game, where TC got his only PL start this season. Him, Palhinha and Pereira was up against Casemiro, Eriksen and Fernandes (all widely regarded as world class) and he looked every bit as much a PL player as the rest of them. It was one of our best midfield displays this season, and TC was a huge part of it. The fact that the game ended in such a bad way does not at all take away from the excellent Fulham performance of which TC was at the heart of much of it.
That alone should be sufficient to conclude that statements such as the quoted are nothing short of disrepspectful.
In my opinion.
Quote from: toshes mate on February 01, 2023, 08:23:25 AM
It's been a tough time for TC managing his knee(s) and the many differences between keeping up a promotion challenge or tempering a survival regime with moments of serious hope. But the guy handles it all with elegance and flair, a welcome relief from the clumsiness and guile from the many who lack his ball skills. He is still a class act.
The voice of reason TM
Love Tom to bits and you have described his salient points superbly, yes a class act on and off the field.
If Messi had scored that goal the buffoons in the media and studio would be creaming themselves and repeating the footage day and night.
He has plenty of football in him yet at Premier League level and i value him very highly. He can still do a job for Fulham and should not be put out to graze yet after all his years of service.
I shall never forget his winning goal at Wembley v Aston Villa and have us long suffering Fulham fans something to celebrate.
People can have short memories but there are some players and their service to Fulham which happen that you should never forget, and Tom deserves respect and allow him to serve Fulham as long as possible.
Quote from: Sammyffc on February 03, 2023, 03:22:33 AM
Quote from: perry geyton on February 02, 2023, 07:04:38 PM
Quote from: Sammyffc on February 02, 2023, 03:53:22 PM
Quote from: StuinSalop on February 02, 2023, 01:57:22 PM
Well you may think that I am talking rubbish but I think Marco probably agrees with me because he does not start Tom and my observations explained above a likely to a reason why. It's all about opinions and on the ball Tom is as good as anyone and better than most. However football matches are won and lost depending on how effective a team is a scoring AND no conceding. Playing 4-2-3-1 with Tom as one of the 2 midfield players creates issues. I would in fact suggest v Sunderland we played a more 4-1-4-1 with Tom and Pereira as more advanced in midfield leave space for Sunderland to attack.
100% agree with this. Tom is good but lets not kid ourselves, he shines the most against lesser opposition. He is not good enough to start in the prem but is a very good impact sub to play balls for when we bring on pacey players in the last 10-15
Tom is not good enough to start in the Prem ?
In your opinion that is, I have a completely different opinion....
Please add an IMO when spouting like that
IMO he isn't , and the stats back it up.
73 appearences in the prem, 3 goals 2 assists. are you really sitting there telling me thats prem quality? come on....
Anguissa played as a CDM and has more assists than him ( 3 ) in 14 less games in the prem
Pereira has 21 appearences for us and 2 goals , 5 assists ....
Reed has 20 appearences 1 goal 2 assists..
Palhinha has the same amout of goals as him as a CDM ....
So how on earth is Tom prem level ?
I guess if you believe that the only thing a player can contribute is goals and assists, then you have a point. We should probably play BDR instead of Reed (whose stats you completely botched both for games played and goals). As an aside, maybe you should look at goals/assist per 90 minutes to at least get something comparable (not that it really matter with the small sample size, but anyhow).
If you believe that there are other atributes that may also contribute to a player's worth, then I suggest you go back to the drawing board.
Quote from: Sting of the North on February 03, 2023, 09:37:55 AM
Quote from: Sammyffc on February 03, 2023, 03:22:33 AM
Quote from: perry geyton on February 02, 2023, 07:04:38 PM
Quote from: Sammyffc on February 02, 2023, 03:53:22 PM
Quote from: StuinSalop on February 02, 2023, 01:57:22 PM
Well you may think that I am talking rubbish but I think Marco probably agrees with me because he does not start Tom and my observations explained above a likely to a reason why. It's all about opinions and on the ball Tom is as good as anyone and better than most. However football matches are won and lost depending on how effective a team is a scoring AND no conceding. Playing 4-2-3-1 with Tom as one of the 2 midfield players creates issues. I would in fact suggest v Sunderland we played a more 4-1-4-1 with Tom and Pereira as more advanced in midfield leave space for Sunderland to attack.
100% agree with this. Tom is good but lets not kid ourselves, he shines the most against lesser opposition. He is not good enough to start in the prem but is a very good impact sub to play balls for when we bring on pacey players in the last 10-15
Tom is not good enough to start in the Prem ?
In your opinion that is, I have a completely different opinion....
Please add an IMO when spouting like that
IMO he isn't , and the stats back it up.
73 appearences in the prem, 3 goals 2 assists. are you really sitting there telling me thats prem quality? come on....
Anguissa played as a CDM and has more assists than him ( 3 ) in 14 less games in the prem
Pereira has 21 appearences for us and 2 goals , 5 assists ....
Reed has 20 appearences 1 goal 2 assists..
Palhinha has the same amout of goals as him as a CDM ....
So how on earth is Tom prem level ?
I guess if you believe that the only thing a player can contribute is goals and assists, then you have a point. We should probably play BDR instead of Reed (whose stats you completely botched both for games played and goals). As an aside, maybe you should look at goals/assist per 90 minutes to at least get something comparable (not that it really matter with the small sample size, but anyhow).
If you believe that there are other atributes that may also contribute to a player's worth, then I suggest you go back to the drawing board.
Fair points you make, but what exactly are you saying his qualities in the prem are? or position? whos place is he taking? he has always been a CAM or CM with attacking free roam, yet has some of the worst prem attacking stats ive seen for a player in any of those positions. if you looked at any of his stats i think you would realise the point i am making.
If you say that you think Tom should start because he passes the ball then you might have a point, but thats about it. This is the premier league, we are playing against top players week in week out and we need quality.
Alot of fans have sentimental value when it comes to player, even in the championship many fans were complaining he was a one foot wonder and goes missing during games which was unfair, yet in this league apparently he is good enough to start ??
Tom Cairney in the championship is gold-dust
Tom Cairney in the premier league is just dust.
Quote from: perry geyton on February 03, 2023, 04:58:04 AM
Quote from: Sammyffc on February 03, 2023, 03:22:33 AM
Quote from: perry geyton on February 02, 2023, 07:04:38 PM
Quote from: Sammyffc on February 02, 2023, 03:53:22 PM
Quote from: StuinSalop on February 02, 2023, 01:57:22 PM
Well you may think that I am talking rubbish but I think Marco probably agrees with me because he does not start Tom and my observations explained above a likely to a reason why. It's all about opinions and on the ball Tom is as good as anyone and better than most. However football matches are won and lost depending on how effective a team is a scoring AND no conceding. Playing 4-2-3-1 with Tom as one of the 2 midfield players creates issues. I would in fact suggest v Sunderland we played a more 4-1-4-1 with Tom and Pereira as more advanced in midfield leave space for Sunderland to attack.
100% agree with this. Tom is good but lets not kid ourselves, he shines the most against lesser opposition. He is not good enough to start in the prem but is a very good impact sub to play balls for when we bring on pacey players in the last 10-15
Tom is not good enough to start in the Prem ?
In your opinion that is, I have a completely different opinion....
Please add an IMO when spouting like that
IMO he isn't , and the stats back it up.
73 appearences in the prem, 3 goals 2 assists. are you really sitting there telling me thats prem quality? come on....
Anguissa played as a CDM and has more assists than him ( 3 ) in 14 less games in the prem
Pereira has 21 appearences for us and 2 goals , 5 assists ....
Reed has 20 appearences 1 goal 2 assists..
Palhinha has the same amout of goals as him as a CDM ....
So how on earth is Tom prem level ?
Yeah I'm telling you he's quality stat boy 100%
Tell me Sammy what was your opinion on Tim Ream continuing on at the end of last season? I'm curious to know
Comparing a CB to an attacking midfielder? weird one.
Lets just compare a left back to a striker then for game stats if thats how your brain works on merit on who should start ?
Again, if you believe goals and assists are the only existing attacking stats (and that being abl to pass the ball is unimportant), then I guess there is no argument
I believe there are other things to a game of football, but to each their own.
Quote from: Sting of the North on February 03, 2023, 12:52:19 PM
Again, if you believe goals and assists are the only existing attacking stats (and that being abl to pass the ball is unimportant), then I guess there is no argument
I believe there are other things to a game of football, but to each their own.
I don't believe that though in a general sense, but for his position and an expert in his position i absolutely do. His job is to create chances and hopefully score, he does neither. In fact, in 73 games he has only created 8 big chances. There is a reason he was dropped by Marco, and its pretty obvious why.
I agree that there is a reason (for TC not playing more), probably more than one. I also think the playing profile reason is pretty obvious, but it is definitely not what you think it is (that TC is not good enough in creating chances).
For his position? What does that even mean? How many times has he actually played as a number 10 in the PL in a team that is not constantly on the back foot (one of many reasons your "stats" are mainly useless). He has many times played deeper, to start with, sometimes out wide. Our two first seasons in the PL with TC we were mainly useless, especially in an attacking sense.
But since it seem to totally elude you, TC:s most important contributions were never goals and assists, those were a bonus. His ball retention and passing skills that keeps play ticking has always been his biggest strength for us. In that department he is miles ahead of everyone else in our team, except maybe Ream and Willian (but they play very different positions). Those skills can bu used to attack by shifting the ball with intelligence. They can also be used to defend by keeping the ball within the team and at the same time not putting teammates under pressure. He has shown more than once that he can use those skills effectively in the PL as well. If that has escaped you I just think that we see football as very different games and I am afraid we will never understand each other.
Quote from: Sting of the North on February 03, 2023, 01:19:18 PM
I agree that there is a reason (for TC not playing more), probably more than one. I also think the playing profile reason is pretty obvious, but it is definitely not what you think it is (that TC is not good enough in creating chances).
For his position? What does that even mean? How many times has he actually played as a number 10 in the PL in a team that is not constantly on the back foot (one of many reasons your "stats" are mainly useless). He has many times played deeper, to start with, sometimes out wide. Our two first seasons in the PL with TC we were mainly useless, especially in an attacking sense.
But since it seem to totally elude you, TC:s most important contributions were never goals and assists, those were a bonus. His ball retention and passing skills that keeps play ticking has always been his biggest strength for us. In that department he is miles ahead of everyone else in our team, except maybe Ream and Willian (but they play very different positions). Those skills can bu used to attack by shifting the ball with intelligence. They can also be used to defend by keeping the ball within the team and at the same time not putting teammates under pressure. He has shown more than once that he can use those skills effectively in the PL as well. If that has escaped you I just think that we see football as very different games and I am afraid we will never understand each other.
I totally understand your point of view, however as you said i believe we just don't align. My main point is that people are saying he should be starting for us, that is all i am going against. If the question was should we bring him on with 20 minutes to go to hold the ball up then sure, do it. However i am not seeing where or how he starts for us in the premier league? over reed who runs his socks off, palhinha who is one of the best CDMs in the league and Pereira who has been a revelation for us and can pin a pass on either feet to a dime
Quote from: Sammyffc on February 03, 2023, 01:29:26 PM
Quote from: Sting of the North on February 03, 2023, 01:19:18 PM
I agree that there is a reason (for TC not playing more), probably more than one. I also think the playing profile reason is pretty obvious, but it is definitely not what you think it is (that TC is not good enough in creating chances).
For his position? What does that even mean? How many times has he actually played as a number 10 in the PL in a team that is not constantly on the back foot (one of many reasons your "stats" are mainly useless). He has many times played deeper, to start with, sometimes out wide. Our two first seasons in the PL with TC we were mainly useless, especially in an attacking sense.
But since it seem to totally elude you, TC:s most important contributions were never goals and assists, those were a bonus. His ball retention and passing skills that keeps play ticking has always been his biggest strength for us. In that department he is miles ahead of everyone else in our team, except maybe Ream and Willian (but they play very different positions). Those skills can bu used to attack by shifting the ball with intelligence. They can also be used to defend by keeping the ball within the team and at the same time not putting teammates under pressure. He has shown more than once that he can use those skills effectively in the PL as well. If that has escaped you I just think that we see football as very different games and I am afraid we will never understand each other.
I totally understand your point of view, however as you said i believe we just don't align. My main point is that people are saying he should be starting for us, that is all i am going against. If the question was should we bring him on with 20 minutes to go to hold the ball up then sure, do it. However i am not seeing where or how he starts for us in the premier league? over reed who runs his socks off, palhinha who is one of the best CDMs in the league and Pereira who has been a revelation for us and can pin a pass on either feet to a dime
Over Reed against teams where we could expect to have our fair share of the ball (it even worked very well against Man U's world class midfield, best control we have had all season). But clearly either Silva values our high press more than having control, or there is something in the discussion about TC's ability to regluarly play big minutes. TC is better in a slightly deeper position in my opinion. Should be interesting to see us play with Lukic now, if he is as good as we hope, since finally we may have someone with passing skills further back in midfield.
Quote from: Sting of the North on February 03, 2023, 12:52:19 PM
Again, if you believe goals and assists are the only existing attacking stats (and that being abl to pass the ball is unimportant), then I guess there is no argument
I believe there are other things to a game of football, but to each their own.
Completely correct, but even the stats supoort him being good enough at this level, per 90 in the prem, Cairney has the most forward passes and (non set piece) chances created out of all our central midfielders....
I think at the moment Tom Cairney is my favourite Fulham player, that doesn't mean he is the best but the one I enjoy watching the most and I wish we could see more of him.
However I understand why he does not start every game, we do need a physical presence in midfield that is better provided by others.
It occurs to me that Tom may decide to move on at the end of the season to a Championship club where he will get more games. Us fans should therefore appreciate in every minute we have left of watching Tom because he is pure class and we may never see his likes again.
I intend to treasure every moment of watching him and hope he is given at least 30 minutes in each remaining match.
Tc is clearly a lot better than Harrison Reed on the ball . Without the ball ,in press and winning back the ball Reed is by far the better ,and he also covers a lot more ground than Tom. Both players have deficiencies but it seems to me that Marco chooses to go with HR as he gives us better defensive balance. With Tc in that role we are more open when the opposition has the ball.Simple.
Quote from: Sting of the North on February 03, 2023, 01:45:19 PM
Quote from: Sammyffc on February 03, 2023, 01:29:26 PM
Quote from: Sting of the North on February 03, 2023, 01:19:18 PM
I agree that there is a reason (for TC not playing more), probably more than one. I also think the playing profile reason is pretty obvious, but it is definitely not what you think it is (that TC is not good enough in creating chances).
For his position? What does that even mean? How many times has he actually played as a number 10 in the PL in a team that is not constantly on the back foot (one of many reasons your "stats" are mainly useless). He has many times played deeper, to start with, sometimes out wide. Our two first seasons in the PL with TC we were mainly useless, especially in an attacking sense.
But since it seem to totally elude you, TC:s most important contributions were never goals and assists, those were a bonus. His ball retention and passing skills that keeps play ticking has always been his biggest strength for us. In that department he is miles ahead of everyone else in our team, except maybe Ream and Willian (but they play very different positions). Those skills can bu used to attack by shifting the ball with intelligence. They can also be used to defend by keeping the ball within the team and at the same time not putting teammates under pressure. He has shown more than once that he can use those skills effectively in the PL as well. If that has escaped you I just think that we see football as very different games and I am afraid we will never understand each other.
I totally understand your point of view, however as you said i believe we just don't align. My main point is that people are saying he should be starting for us, that is all i am going against. If the question was should we bring him on with 20 minutes to go to hold the ball up then sure, do it. However i am not seeing where or how he starts for us in the premier league? over reed who runs his socks off, palhinha who is one of the best CDMs in the league and Pereira who has been a revelation for us and can pin a pass on either feet to a dime
Over Reed against teams where we could expect to have our fair share of the ball (it even worked very well against Man U's world class midfield, best control we have had all season). But clearly either Silva values our high press more than having control, or there is something in the discussion about TC's ability to regluarly play big minutes. TC is better in a slightly deeper position in my opinion. Should be interesting to see us play with Lukic now, if he is as good as we hope, since finally we may have someone with passing skills further back in midfield.
Sting I think you have made the salient points superbly in this thread. I fully agree with you.
Quote from: StuinSalop on February 02, 2023, 09:27:10 AM
Quote from: toshes mate on February 02, 2023, 09:14:48 AM
Quote from: StuinSalop on February 01, 2023, 09:18:58 AM
This is in no way slagging Cairney off, he is a wonderful footballer and been a magnificent player for Fulham over many years.
However
He has weaknesses ...
Every human being has weaknesses and in life and sport generally 'would be opponents' seek to find out what they are. Often the weakness is exagerrated by observers which is what has happened to e.g. Tim Ream. Not so strangely Tom's strength - his left foot - becomes his weakness because his right leg is standing room only. The same things were said about Johnny Haynes and how opponents could stifle him. Some successes at stifling led to punters calling FFC a one man team. Of course the observations appeared correct when the Maestro counter activity work but his evolved solution (how Haynes and the team overcame the tactics) deserved the same accolade but seldom got it, especially upon the next time FFC were caused to falter with Haynes playing.
Cairney has little to prove to anyone especially so during the Jokanovic era and that same guy plays even now. I know people want to see him plant the ball in the net from the fringes of the penalty box but Tom knows how quickly shots are charged down from his favourite spots at this level of football. The guy has a really good football brain.
You're missing my main point which is not his one footed ness but the fact that when he playes we are more open as his defensive qualities are poor. It's a question of team balance and finding the best way to use Tom and his skills are key. My view is his 20 minute cameo in games is just about perfect.
As for Johnny Haynes, I did watch him but it was after his car crash so I never saw the great man at his best, indeed towards the end of his career he sometimes held Fulham back. ( duck to avoid incoming abuse).
Well I was privileged to have watched the Maestro in every home game he played from 1954 to 1964 plus a few away matches and a number of internationals. I can tell you that, good as Cairney is, he is not in the same class as Haynes. JH could make a killer pass "out of the blue" with either foot and from anywhere on the pitch. With TC I often find myself willing him to make that pass long before he does. Not with JH - you never saw it coming and nor did the opponents. When JH was on the ball and moving it forward, the opposing defenders would be back tracking furiously, looking over their shoulders to see where they had left a space. He may have had a period when he was "stifled" but he was rarely if ever dispossessed. Defensively he was adequate, though that was a slight weakness, but the game was different then and defending was left to defenders in the main.
"Pereira who has been a revelation for us and can pin a pass on either feet to a dime"
hahahaha. i commented on a recent match thread his play had been scruffy and untidy. his last 3 passes had gone to the opposition. yes 3 on the trot.
and then another poster said he hadnt put a foot wrong all game. people do see different things.
Quote from: Sammyffc on February 03, 2023, 12:50:11 PM
Quote from: perry geyton on February 03, 2023, 04:58:04 AM
Quote from: Sammyffc on February 03, 2023, 03:22:33 AM
Quote from: perry geyton on February 02, 2023, 07:04:38 PM
Quote from: Sammyffc on February 02, 2023, 03:53:22 PM
Quote from: StuinSalop on February 02, 2023, 01:57:22 PM
Well you may think that I am talking rubbish but I think Marco probably agrees with me because he does not start Tom and my observations explained above a likely to a reason why. It's all about opinions and on the ball Tom is as good as anyone and better than most. However football matches are won and lost depending on how effective a team is a scoring AND no conceding. Playing 4-2-3-1 with Tom as one of the 2 midfield players creates issues. I would in fact suggest v Sunderland we played a more 4-1-4-1 with Tom and Pereira as more advanced in midfield leave space for Sunderland to attack.
100% agree with this. Tom is good but lets not kid ourselves, he shines the most against lesser opposition. He is not good enough to start in the prem but is a very good impact sub to play balls for when we bring on pacey players in the last 10-15
Tom is not good enough to start in the Prem ?
In your opinion that is, I have a completely different opinion....
Please add an IMO when spouting like that
IMO he isn't , and the stats back it up.
73 appearences in the prem, 3 goals 2 assists. are you really sitting there telling me thats prem quality? come on....
Anguissa played as a CDM and has more assists than him ( 3 ) in 14 less games in the prem
Pereira has 21 appearences for us and 2 goals , 5 assists ....
Reed has 20 appearences 1 goal 2 assists..
Palhinha has the same amout of goals as him as a CDM ....
So how on earth is Tom prem level ?
Yeah I'm telling you he's quality stat boy 100%
Tell me Sammy what was your opinion on Tim Ream continuing on at the end of last season? I'm curious to know
Comparing a CB to an attacking midfielder? weird one.
Lets just compare a left back to a striker then for game stats if thats how your brain works on merit on who should start ?
BUT You didn't answer my question did you Mr Know It All
Did you write Tim Ream off and say he should retire cos he's not good enough for the premier league ? It's a simple question,
it's regarding a player has nothing to do with the position they play in
Did you or not ?
Quote from: Sammyffc on February 03, 2023, 12:56:06 PM
Quote from: Sting of the North on February 03, 2023, 12:52:19 PM
Again, if you believe goals and assists are the only existing attacking stats (and that being abl to pass the ball is unimportant), then I guess there is no argument
I believe there are other things to a game of football, but to each their own.
I don't believe that though in a general sense, but for his position and an expert in his position i absolutely do. His job is to create chances and hopefully score, he does neither. In fact, in 73 games he has only created 8 big chances. There is a reason he was dropped by Marco, and its pretty obvious why.
Sammy your welcome to all the opinions you wish to hold. This one, however, it seems like this one has been pulled firmly from where the sun don't shine.
There are a lot of match actions that can't be tracked by stats. Or more accurately, are not yet able to be tracked by stats (but you seem switched on, so I'd bet money that you're already aware of this).
A top example of this is Andreas Pereira himself, who Slavisa wanted to sign 7 years ago. The transfer was blocked by Tony Kahn as they couldn't validate the player as they hadn't considered tracking players in the development leagues.
Cairney's composure on the ball and is ability to keep the ball, make the right decisions on the ball every single time and so frequently open up new channels is almost unrivalled.
So often if you look at who's played the ball to the bloke who's put the ball in the box.. it'll be Tom.
If you don't think he's up to Prem standard, I'd be tempted to suggest that football just isn't for you :dft012:
Sammy you are right, but some are too blind to see it. TC is a great championship player but lacks quality in the Premier League. Funny how no top division club has ever made an offer for him, or Ream for that matter. TR is having one good season but has always been prone to mistakes and is slow. He's doing a good job this season though. It will soon be time for them both to go, so I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it.
Quote from: blingo on February 05, 2023, 02:14:27 PM
Sammy you are right, but some are too blind to see it. TC is a great championship player but lacks quality in the Premier League. Funny how no top division club has ever made an offer for him, or Ream for that matter. TR is having one good season but has always been prone to mistakes and is slow. He's doing a good job this season though. It will soon be time for them both to go, so I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it.
Bongo talking out his backside again
Can one of the usual suspects who reply multiple times to every cairney post defending him please explain what it is about him that they feel so strongly about? The same suspects have been doing so for literally years
Quote from: colinwhite on February 03, 2023, 05:12:36 PM
Tc is clearly a lot better than Harrison Reed on the ball . Without the ball ,in press and winning back the ball Reed is by far the better ,and he also covers a lot more ground than Tom. Both players have deficiencies but it seems to me that Marco chooses to go with HR as he gives us better defensive balance. With Tc in that role we are more open when the opposition has the ball.Simple.
I agree Colin. Reed and TC both have roles to play but the qualities that Reed offers better match the style of football Marco designed for the current squad. I don't believe Cairney will start many league matches over Harrison simply because the qualities Harrison offers better match what Marco is looking for the starter in his system. Having said that I do be TC has a big role to play this season.
I don't think I've posted re TC before, but the reason I like him is that after Danny Murphy retired, and until this season's arrivals, he was the best reader of a game in our squad. Also important is that when he shoots, he usually scores.
If TC wasn't so one footed he would have been an absolute top player and likely left us for bigger teams long ago.
Quote from: ffcthereligion on February 05, 2023, 05:21:16 PM
Can one of the usual suspects who reply multiple times to every cairney post defending him please explain what it is about him that they feel so strongly about? The same suspects have been doing so for literally years
Opposed to people constantly slagging him off you mean ?
Same rules apply to Tim Ream, I've defended him for years against a Berates of insults, same applies to Tom I'll always defend him cos he's quality and if you simply can't see that and what he offers to
This team then you might wanna address your logic
Both Tim Ream and TC have performed exceptionally well for FFC over many years.
They both have admirable qualities and, like us all, shortcomings.
I will enjoy their continued contributions this season.
However, if we are to consolidate in the Premier League I believe their contribution next season should diminish and we must find replacements for them.
Unfortunately, time is catching up with them but lets enjoy them whilst we have them.
Quote from: ffc73 on February 05, 2023, 07:48:05 PM
Both Tim Ream and TC have performed exceptionally well for FFC over many years.
They both have admirable qualities and, like us all, shortcomings.
I will enjoy their continued contributions this season.
However, if we are to consolidate in the Premier League I believe their contribution next season should diminish and we must find replacements for them.
Unfortunately, time is catching up with them but lets enjoy them whilst we have them.
Thank you for posting a neutral, rational response. I love both players, they've been incredible servants for the majority of their own careers for us, and stuck through the highs and lows... especially the lows. Yes, their time is coming to an end, but to slander their names is uncalled for.
I think with TC there will come a time soon (probs when Lukic is starting over Reed) where he doesnt become the first sub and has to make do with the last 10 minutes. He will then need to choose whether he wants to play elsewhere or have a bitpart club captain role where he will forever be a fan favourite but wont play very often. He has just turned 32 and as speed has never been a big part of his game he could easily play until his late 30s... but that wont be at prem level. His days starting for us are rightly over and in the summer we will probs sign another midfielder at which point he is the 6th choice midfielder and will be getting similar kind of minutes to what Chalobah was getting... he deserves more than that and will hopefully move on.
Wont be that long before Ream, Cairney and Kebano will no longer be at the club... I had to say goodbye to my fav player Odoi last season and its very painful.
FFC73 that is my feeling towards 2 players who have shown Exceptional service to our great club.