I see a lot of fans online are worried about this game. I guess you haven't watched us play in a long time. We've been terrible for quite some time. I fully expect England to beat us today.
Our coach is tactically clueless. The good results we got recently (e.g. the 0-0 draw against Spain where we had the best chance of the game) were due to individual quality of our defence+goalkeeper. In attack we also rely on individual brilliance, Vlahovic is in excellent form and generally we have attackers who can score if given half a chance.
When the lineups come out, I'll give a more detailed preview, because I have no clue what system we will play in or who will play.
If by some chance anyone here is in Serbia to watch the game live, I hope you have a good time.
Hello Serbia, hope all is well
Is that bloke Metro in the team....and don't worry - we've got Henderson in our squad... we're going for youth over experience
Frankly The Great British Bake off is also on so that will probably be more exciting.
Boring, boring England. Must be mad have the alarm set for 0130 Hrs. Could be asleep again by 0150. Please no Jordan Henderson or Loftus Cheek.
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on September 09, 2025, 10:26:08 AMHello Serbia, hope all is well
Is that bloke Metro in the team....and don't worry - we've got Henderson in our squad... we're going for youth over experience
Mitro is in the team, but I doubt he will start. His 10ish minutes against Latvia in our last game were his first minutes since the qualifier against Androrra (which was three months ago). He looked incredibly unfit for the first time in the national team. It will probably be either Vlahovic and Jovic or just Vlahovic.
Quote from: Lighthouse on September 09, 2025, 10:31:36 AMFrankly The Great British Bake off is also on so that will probably be more exciting.
And a repeat of an edition of Bargain Hunt. Cannot wait!
I will watch it because it's England.
How long I watch for is another matter.
I will be watching the Great British Sewing Bee.
Can see this being 0-0
Quote from: SerbianLad on September 09, 2025, 10:47:55 AMQuote from: H4usuallysitting on September 09, 2025, 10:26:08 AMHello Serbia, hope all is well
Is that bloke Metro in the team....and don't worry - we've got Henderson in our squad... we're going for youth over experience
Mitro is in the team, but I doubt he will start. His 10ish minutes against Latvia in our last game were his first minutes since the qualifier against Androrra (which was three months ago). He looked incredibly unfit for the first time in the national team. It will probably be either Vlahovic and Jovic or just Vlahovic.
He's bound to get even fitter now he's moved to Qatar!
Quote from: Lighthouse on September 09, 2025, 10:31:36 AMFrankly The Great British Bake off is also on so that will probably be more exciting.
Will there be cake
Quote from: SerbianLad on September 09, 2025, 10:47:55 AMQuote from: H4usuallysitting on September 09, 2025, 10:26:08 AMHello Serbia, hope all is well
Is that bloke Metro in the team....and don't worry - we've got Henderson in our squad... we're going for youth over experience
Mitro is in the team, but I doubt he will start. His 10ish minutes against Latvia in our last game were his first minutes since the qualifier against Androrra (which was three months ago). He looked incredibly unfit for the first time in the national team. It will probably be either Vlahovic and Jovic or just Vlahovic.
Cheers Serbia
They must of opened that Greggs in Saudi
Going up to the Lyons Way tonight to watch my local team Worthing Utd play Loxwood in the Sussex Cup. I don`t think my blood pressure could stand up to another England game.
I'll be glad when the international break ends and we can get back to the proper football. Fulham v Leeds! COYW
Our head coach went with the most defensive lineup in a while. 3 centre backs and pretty much 3 defensive midfielders. One striker(Vlahovic). I expect us to park the bus and try and hit long balls to Vlahovic and then hope he can hold on to it and bring others into play.
Your fans need to behave tonight SL or the sanctions will be severe. A disgrace that racism is still prevalent in society. Got a horrible feeling about tonight. Hope football wins.
England will win 0-2.
It will be a Very Very boring game though.
Quote from: H4usuallysitting on September 09, 2025, 04:33:20 PMQuote from: Lighthouse on September 09, 2025, 10:31:36 AMFrankly The Great British Bake off is also on so that will probably be more exciting.
Will there be cake
Lukic is starting for Serbia with a meringue base with a raspberry soufflé type topping. The problems always will be to try and keep the base firm and not soggy.
Quote from: iansthailand on September 09, 2025, 07:05:48 PMYour fans need to behave tonight SL or the sanctions will be severe. A disgrace that racism is still prevalent in society. Got a horrible feeling about tonight. Hope football wins.
Racism has no place in football or anywhere for that matter. Racism is less prevalent in Serbia than England and there are multiple studies that confirm this. I don't understand the media campaign against Serbia prior to this game. We are not a racist country at all.
Edit: An example - https://theconversation.com/this-map-shows-what-white-europeans-associate-with-race-and-it-makes-for-uncomfortable-reading-76661
As you can see, we actually are the least racist country by this study. Yugoslavia was one of the founders, and the birthplace of the Non-Aligned Movement which consisted mostly of countries from Africa and Asia and many people from those countries came here to study at our universities.
Other Slavic countries (like Czech Republic for example) or other Balkan countries (like Bulgaria for example) have problems with racism, we do not.
Quote from: SerbianLad on September 09, 2025, 07:31:43 PMQuote from: iansthailand on September 09, 2025, 07:05:48 PMYour fans need to behave tonight SL or the sanctions will be severe. A disgrace that racism is still prevalent in society. Got a horrible feeling about tonight. Hope football wins.
Racism has no place in football or anywhere for that matter. Racism is less prevalent in Serbia than England and there are multiple studies that confirm this. I don't understand the media campaign against Serbia prior to this game. We are not a racist country at all.
It's because you are always getting in trouble for chanting about Kosovo which is called racist when ethnic discrimination is probably more accurate so people assume it is racism for being anti black.
There were also a couple incidents like 13 and 18 years ago where and England player was racially abused.
Mitro getting his 100 cap honour was a nice touch.
Quote from: btffc on September 09, 2025, 07:38:00 PMQuote from: SerbianLad on September 09, 2025, 07:31:43 PMQuote from: iansthailand on September 09, 2025, 07:05:48 PMYour fans need to behave tonight SL or the sanctions will be severe. A disgrace that racism is still prevalent in society. Got a horrible feeling about tonight. Hope football wins.
Racism has no place in football or anywhere for that matter. Racism is less prevalent in Serbia than England and there are multiple studies that confirm this. I don't understand the media campaign against Serbia prior to this game. We are not a racist country at all.
It's because you are always getting in trouble for chanting about Kosovo which is called racist when ethnic discrimination is probably more accurate so people assume it is racism for being anti black.
There were also a couple incidents like 13 and 18 years ago where and England player was racially abused.
Don't talk about Kosovo and Metohija if you're not from there please, it's a very complex and political topic. The fact is that majority of countries don't recognise it as a independent nation, but as a part of Serbia, and the chants people say state "Kosovo is Serbia" which by United Nations is true.
Lukic booked unsurprisingly....
Congrats on the win lads! No way are we scoring today with this set-up from our coach.
Edit:0-2, even less of a chance now.
2-0 up after 34 minutes, maybe England will rack up a few goals after all...
10 shots, 5 on target in 38 mins.
All hail Tuchel! He is worthy now to wear the waistcoat of the great man.
Terrible half from us, even by our recent, poor standards. Our team selection made no sense and this was to be expected. The best result we could have hoped for in this set-up was 0-0, but as soon as you scored it became even easier for you.
I expect some subs at half time. Hopefully Jovic and Samardzic will come on, but regardless, I think you'll win easily and probably keep a clean sheet too.
Well I'm enjoying the performance, so going to stick with it and enjoy England again.
It would be a nicer win if Serbia turned up.
I wasn't trying to say Serbia is a racist country (I don't know enough about the area) but with UEFA closing part of the ground you will be under stricter scrutiny than usual. The UK has had its crowd problems and racism, as you say, is still very much part of our society today.
Quote from: iansthailand on September 09, 2025, 08:49:05 PMI wasn't trying to say Serbia is a racist country (I don't know enough about the area) but with UEFA closing part of the ground you will be under stricter scrutiny than usual. The UK has had its crowd problems and racism, as you say, is still very much part of our society today.
That was related to various incidents in the past few games, none of which were related to racism.
Quote from: SerbianLad on September 09, 2025, 08:50:19 PMQuote from: iansthailand on September 09, 2025, 08:49:05 PMI wasn't trying to say Serbia is a racist country (I don't know enough about the area) but with UEFA closing part of the ground you will be under stricter scrutiny than usual. The UK has had its crowd problems and racism, as you say, is still very much part of our society today.
That was related to various incidents in the past few games, none of which were related to racism.
Like lasers?
Quote from: Grassy Noel on September 09, 2025, 08:53:04 PMQuote from: SerbianLad on September 09, 2025, 08:50:19 PMQuote from: iansthailand on September 09, 2025, 08:49:05 PMI wasn't trying to say Serbia is a racist country (I don't know enough about the area) but with UEFA closing part of the ground you will be under stricter scrutiny than usual. The UK has had its crowd problems and racism, as you say, is still very much part of our society today.
That was related to various incidents in the past few games, none of which were related to racism.
Like lasers?
Some of our fans threw stuff on the pitch, chanted Kosovo is Serbia (which UEFA views as discriminatory language) and some other things I can't remember.
0-3.
On replay, seems like an offside to me, but we're not getting anything from this game so I'm not bothered.
We now have the team that should have started, more or less. I expect we'll play some better stuff now.
That is so harsh
Quote from: Hatch007 on September 09, 2025, 09:20:07 PMThat is so harsh
Assuming you mean the red card, I disagree. Milenkovic got none of the ball and took out Kane which prevented him running into the box and having a shot - that's a textbook red.
Quote from: Grassy Noel on September 09, 2025, 08:27:03 PMAll hail Tuchel! He is worthy now to wear the waistcoat of the great man.
Billy Smart?
Haaland has hit five for Norway tonight...
Norway with only a slight lead on Moldova tonight..
10-1 so far.
I hope you score a few more. Maybe then we will sack this clown of a coach.
Quote from: FFC007 on September 09, 2025, 09:29:38 PMHaaland has hit five for Norway tonight...
Norway with only a slight lead on Moldova tonight..
10-1 so far.
None from Sander though
Quote from: The Cravenette on September 09, 2025, 09:32:14 PMQuote from: FFC007 on September 09, 2025, 09:29:38 PMHaaland has hit five for Norway tonight...
Norway with only a slight lead on Moldova tonight..
10-1 so far.
None from Sander though
Finished 11-1.
Aasgard has hit four inside 23 minutes, including two penalties.
Come on score one more at least! Surely our biggest loss in history would mean we sack our coach?
For the benefit of the people who had the misfortune of having to watch Bake Off and Bargain Hunt and other boring TV productions.
Final Score Serbia 0 England 5
Goal Scorers Kane, Madueke, Konsa. Guehi. Rashford pen.
Well played England 🏴
::scarf::
Credit where it's due... much better performance, good movement off the ball and some sound forward passing...
5 goals... against decent opposition... cannot argue with that..
Well played England
Quote from: SerbianLad on September 09, 2025, 10:17:23 AMI see a lot of fans online are worried about this game. I guess you haven't watched us play in a long time. We've been terrible for quite some time. I fully expect England to beat us today.
Our coach is tactically clueless. The good results we got recently (e.g. the 0-0 draw against Spain where we had the best chance of the game) were due to individual quality of our defence+goalkeeper. In attack we also rely on individual brilliance, Vlahovic is in excellent form and generally we have attackers who can score if given half a chance.
When the lineups come out, I'll give a more detailed preview, because I have no clue what system we will play in or who will play.
If by some chance anyone here is in Serbia to watch the game live, I hope you have a good time.
Looks like you called it correctly, SL!
I hope England have at least helped contribute to the sacking of your manager. Serbia should never lose by that margin at home.
Quote from: Eton White on September 09, 2025, 09:49:01 PMQuote from: SerbianLad on September 09, 2025, 10:17:23 AMI see a lot of fans online are worried about this game. I guess you haven't watched us play in a long time. We've been terrible for quite some time. I fully expect England to beat us today.
Our coach is tactically clueless. The good results we got recently (e.g. the 0-0 draw against Spain where we had the best chance of the game) were due to individual quality of our defence+goalkeeper. In attack we also rely on individual brilliance, Vlahovic is in excellent form and generally we have attackers who can score if given half a chance.
When the lineups come out, I'll give a more detailed preview, because I have no clue what system we will play in or who will play.
If by some chance anyone here is in Serbia to watch the game live, I hope you have a good time.
Looks like you called it correctly, SL!
I hope England have at least helped contribute to the sacking of your manager. Serbia should never lose by that margin at home.
This has tied our record loss (the other 5-0 loss was away). We have much better players (on paper at least) than any other team in this group bar England, yet we produced by far the worst display.
Our only convincing performance this campaign was against Androrra, where we won 3-0, but that was literally only because Andorran defenders couldn't handle Mitro physically and he scored an easy hattrick.
I've never seem us play worse football than today. If this doesn't get him fired, nothing will...
Unfortunately that isn't guaranteed, as he's pretty close to our president and there's lot of corruption in our FA.
He made two assists too.
Good peformance, no matter how poor Serbia were tonight their record shows that they are decent and we dismantled them.
Our coach just put all the blame on our players. LOL
He said that this result was always going to happen as your players are that much better than ours and that no other result was possible! I guess Andorra has much better players than us, since they managed to get better results 2 times already!
I watched the first half, was listening to the second on the radio. England played really well in the first half, I was impressed. Disappointed in the way Serbia played, I expected much better from them. Their set up gave England way too much respect.
I felt sorry for the Serbian families who were leaving in large numbers after those incidents in the crowd, with some of the children looking frightened.
Quote from: SerbianLad on September 09, 2025, 10:16:50 PMOur coach just put all the blame on our players. LOL
He said that this result was always going to happen as your players are that much better than ours and that no other result was possible! I guess Andorra has much better players than us, since they managed to get better results 2 times already!
When a coach openly blames his players publicly, it's always a sign that he's on his way out!
Quote from: Eton White on September 09, 2025, 10:19:37 PMQuote from: SerbianLad on September 09, 2025, 10:16:50 PMOur coach just put all the blame on our players. LOL
He said that this result was always going to happen as your players are that much better than ours and that no other result was possible! I guess Andorra has much better players than us, since they managed to get better results 2 times already!
When a coach openly blames his players publicly, it's always a sign that he's on his way out!
I'll believe when I see the back of him!
Did Mitrovic do anything of note in his 20 min cameo?
Quote from: demeant0r on September 09, 2025, 10:22:46 PMDid Mitrovic do anything of note in his 20 min cameo?
Nope. Looked unfit again. As I said, he didn't play football at all in last 3 months because of an injury. He actually ruined two decent attacks we had. A great diagonal ball from Lukic should have opened up space for us, but he had a poor first touch. The other chance was a counter attack when he gave a poor pass that went for an England throw in.
Quote from: SerbianLad on September 09, 2025, 10:26:05 PMQuote from: demeant0r on September 09, 2025, 10:22:46 PMDid Mitrovic do anything of note in his 20 min cameo?
Nope. Looked unfit again. As I said, he didn't play football at all in last 3 months because of an injury. He actually ruined two decent attacks we had. A great diagonal ball from Lukic should have opened up space for us, but he had a poor first touch. The other chance was a counter attack when he gave a poor pass that went for an England throw in.
This guy is an enigma. Ruined his entire career by chasing more money even though he had loads already and now he plays at even worse league than Saudi. No team will want him when he leaves Qatar.
Quote from: demeant0r on September 09, 2025, 10:30:53 PMQuote from: SerbianLad on September 09, 2025, 10:26:05 PMQuote from: demeant0r on September 09, 2025, 10:22:46 PMDid Mitrovic do anything of note in his 20 min cameo?
Nope. Looked unfit again. As I said, he didn't play football at all in last 3 months because of an injury. He actually ruined two decent attacks we had. A great diagonal ball from Lukic should have opened up space for us, but he had a poor first touch. The other chance was a counter attack when he gave a poor pass that went for an England throw in.
This guy is an enigma. Ruined his entire career by chasing more money even though he had loads already and now he plays at even worse league than Saudi. No team will want him when he leaves Qatar.
I'm still really disappointed in him. He worked his socks off throughout his career to gain respect and in his last season in Fulham he finally did, everyone thought he was a great striker. You could see comments from opposition fans before or after games, other PL managers mentioned him pretty regularly in pre match press conferences too. And instead of him staying in Fulham, where he was well respected by opposition fans and players and loved by Fulham fans, he chose money. Sure, it's enormous amount of it, but as you say, it's not like he was earning minimum wage at Fulham either. What could have been...
Quote from: demeant0r on September 09, 2025, 10:22:46 PMDid Mitrovic do anything of note in his 20 min cameo?
Great nostalgia moment when Mitro questioned the ref about the sending off.
Quote from: SerbianLad on September 09, 2025, 10:35:37 PMNope. Looked unfit again. As I said, he didn't play football at all in last 3 months because of an injury. He actually ruined two decent attacks we had. A great diagonal ball from Lukic should have opened up space for us, but he had a poor first touch. The other chance was a counter attack when he gave a poor pass that went for an England throw in.
.....
I'm still really disappointed in him. He worked his socks off throughout his career to gain respect and in his last season in Fulham he finally did, everyone thought he was a great striker. You could see comments from opposition fans before or after games, other PL managers mentioned him pretty regularly in pre match press conferences too. And instead of him staying in Fulham, where he was well respected by opposition fans and players and loved by Fulham fans, he chose money. Sure, it's enormous amount of it, but as you say, it's not like he was earning minimum wage at Fulham either. What could have been...
He would probably be a legend at somewhere like Milan or Lazio now too with us having sold him with our blessings for Champions League football. Now he's literally scrabbling about in the dirt.
What a waste.
Quote from: SerbianLad on September 09, 2025, 07:31:43 PMQuote from: iansthailand on September 09, 2025, 07:05:48 PMYour fans need to behave tonight SL or the sanctions will be severe. A disgrace that racism is still prevalent in society. Got a horrible feeling about tonight. Hope football wins.
Racism has no place in football or anywhere for that matter. Racism is less prevalent in Serbia than England and there are multiple studies that confirm this. I don't understand the media campaign against Serbia prior to this game. We are not a racist country at all.
Edit: An example - https://theconversation.com/this-map-shows-what-white-europeans-associate-with-race-and-it-makes-for-uncomfortable-reading-76661
As you can see, we actually are the least racist country by this study. Yugoslavia was one of the founders, and the birthplace of the Non-Aligned Movement which consisted mostly of countries from Africa and Asia and many people from those countries came here to study at our universities.
Other Slavic countries (like Czech Republic for example) or other Balkan countries (like Bulgaria for example) have problems with racism, we do not.
That study specifically examines White and Black people and whether you immediately react "good/bad" or "evil/good" to a flashing photo of a White or Black person's face. I administered a recreation of this test at my university, and an interesting finding is that Black people actually score "worse" in terms of responding negatively, bad or evil, more often to a Black person's face than White people. Black people surely aren't "more racist" against other Black people than White people are, are they? The interpretation is tricky; scoring "worse" does not equate to being "more racist" in the conventional sense, because IAT measures unconscious associations (your responding in less than a second), not deliberate beliefs.
I won't digress over the more complex topic around the usefulness of IAT in measuring "racism", but the real point here is that the study tells us nothing about ultranationalist or jingoist sentiment in a group of people when the "opposite party" isn't Black, and to suggest that means there isn't any racism in Serbia is a bit of a ridiculous take, at least using that study. In fact, as I'm sure you know, for countries in the Balkans the racism you find is often against people with a similar skin color. If you don't want to call that racism and prefer to call it ultranationalist or jingoist, that's fine, but I do believe that is what the comment you were responding to was pointing out generally.
I find it disturbing to suggest that only people from the region can speak on this issue. I couldn't disagree more with that sentiment. There should be open dialogue on these topics. If someone is clearly misinformed, showing an unwillingness to learn, or is purposefully being harmful, then censorship may be appropriate, but otherwise I am actually more confused by your demand.
I do, unfortunately, need to also point out that I can't agree with what you specifically stated. I want to be very clear this in no way endorses certain Albanian rhetoric, and I am not condoning or condemning one side over the other. However, saying "Kosovo is Serbia" in a calm political debate is a political position, chanting "Kosovo je Srbija!" in a stadium, protest, or nationalist rally, often with hostility, is a jingoist slogan, and that has no place in a football stadium or around the ground. Again, I am not suggesting these chants happen in a vacuum, that there isn't people on the other side doing the exact same thing or worse, but that's not really the point right now.
Correct me if I am wrong, but you seem to suggest this is acceptable because it is "true," citing two pieces of evidence: first, that the majority of countries don't recognize Kosovo as an independent nation, and second, that the UN doesn't recognize it.
I would contend that both of these statements either lack serious context at best or are misleading at worst. I find it unfortunate that such statements are made after directly acknowledging how complex this topic is. I implore you to do more research on the countries that do or don't recognize Kosovo's independence, and you will find that at worst, it is 50/50 (I'm hedging cause I don't even think you could find that), and at best, over 100 countries recognize Kosovo in some way as independent. Regarding the UN, yes, it has defaulted to not recognizing Kosovo, but this has little to do with anything that happens in the region and everything to do with China and Russia being on the Security Council, who for their own reasons, relating to their own circumstances with external self-determination, would veto any move to recognize Kosovo as independent.
I don't wish to start an argument or cause any offense. I can also totally understand the sensitivity on this topic and seeing outside opinions has not helpful, but I can't see defending aggressive nationalist chanting "Kosovo is the heart of Serbia" or "Kosovo is Serbia" being sung by football ultras as defensible. That type of behavior is what UEFA has punished, and rightfully so in my opinion.
Quote from: SerbianLad on September 09, 2025, 08:50:19 PMQuote from: iansthailand on September 09, 2025, 08:49:05 PMI wasn't trying to say Serbia is a racist country (I don't know enough about the area) but with UEFA closing part of the ground you will be under stricter scrutiny than usual. The UK has had its crowd problems and racism, as you say, is still very much part of our society today.
That was related to various incidents in the past few games, none of which were related to racism.
OK thanks for putting me right. Tough night for you but you did point out this Serbian team were way below previous teams.
Quote from: SerbianLad on September 09, 2025, 10:21:32 PMQuote from: Eton White on September 09, 2025, 10:19:37 PMQuote from: SerbianLad on September 09, 2025, 10:16:50 PMOur coach just put all the blame on our players. LOL
He said that this result was always going to happen as your players are that much better than ours and that no other result was possible! I guess Andorra has much better players than us, since they managed to get better results 2 times already!
When a coach openly blames his players publicly, it's always a sign that he's on his way out!
I'll believe when I see the back of him!
You won't be sending him a Christmas Card this year then!!!
Thought Lukic was non existent last night in the game against England. You can see they are very one dimensional and regimental in their setup. They need to be careful as they could end up being an also ran when qualifying for future tournaments.
If you like your stats then Lukic is a dream player if you want to see him play forward thinking you might have to wait sometime?
His a Fulham player and always difficult criticising one of your own but I keep thinking he'll let his hair down soon take the handbrake off and show something but I am beginning to think it's not in his locker. He will get a living playing you to me football!
Famous last words he'll score a screamer Saturday against Leeds or the winner V Brentford!
Quote from: JimmyConway on September 10, 2025, 07:05:25 AMThought Lukic was non existent last night in the game against England. You can see they are very one dimensional and regimental in their setup. They need to be careful as they could end up being an also ran when qualifying for future tournaments.
If you like your stats then Lukic is a dream player if you want to see him play forward thinking you might have to wait sometime?
His a Fulham player and always difficult criticising one of your own but I keep thinking he'll let his hair down soon take the handbrake off and show something but I am beginning to think it's not in his locker. He will get a living playing you to me football!
Famous last words he'll score a screamer Saturday against Leeds or the winner V Brentford!
He's 29. At this point he is what he is and is not going to evolve much as a player.
Quote from: Colton F.C. on September 09, 2025, 11:31:59 PMQuote from: demeant0r on September 09, 2025, 10:22:46 PMDid Mitrovic do anything of note in his 20 min cameo?
Great nostalgia moment when Mitro questioned the ref about the sending off.
If England weren't already winning 3-0 at the point I half-expected Mitro to grab the ref.
Quote from: FFC007 on September 09, 2025, 09:29:38 PMHaaland has hit five for Norway tonight...
Norway with only a slight lead on Moldova tonight..
10-1 so far.
The win was in doubt until 89 minutes from the end.
Quote from: demeant0r on September 09, 2025, 10:22:46 PMDid Mitrovic do anything of note in his 20 min cameo?
Yes he asked the referee if he could lend him 5 quid until his next payday. 💷
I watched some of it but gave up before half time. Sooooo boring! I feel sad that they invade our domestic schedule for this rubbish. Tippy tappy, sideways, backwards. Awful football. So predicable and nobody demonstrates the excitement of dribbling now. OK, defenders are much better now but there must be some tactic to counter it. Perhaps a bonus point for 3 or more goals, even if it ends up 4-3 loss.
Quote from: The Little Dave on September 10, 2025, 12:41:19 AMto suggest that means there isn't any racism in Serbia is a bit of a ridiculous take, at least using that study
Where have I suggested that? I only said that racism isn't prevalent in Serbia. Also, I used that study as an example, I can give you more examples of studies that show what I tried to point out. Or I can even give you examples in football, like e.g. Red Star's first foreign captain being black or the many black and asian players that play and have played for our clubs and were absolutely adored by our fans. Our assistant coach in the national team, up until recently, was Japanese too and he was a fan favourite.
Quote from: The Little Dave on September 10, 2025, 12:41:19 AMI'm sure you know, for countries in the Balkans the racism you find is often against people with a similar skin color.
Racism, by definition(the original one at least), is , as the name states, prejudice or discrimination based on race.
Chauvinism is prejudice/discrimination based on nationality and the belief that one nation is superior to other.
Nationalism is a positive thing like patriotism, with nationalism being the love for your nation and patriotism being the love for your country.
These terms are pretty clear and the clues are in the names. Why some people decided to add aditional meaning to those words, I'll never understand. If you find old dictionaries from any country, you'll see that these were the original meanings.
As for the chauvinism between Balkan countries, it does exist, but it is reserved to extremists and politicians. Most people don't care about that at all. In the Vojvodina region in the north of Serbia, there's a big Croatian minority (and Hungarian, Slovak,etc) and they live in absolute peace and harmony. People from Serbia often cheer for Croatian sportspeople and vice versa. Croatian musicians and bands are popular in Serbia and Serbian musicians and bands are popular in Croatia. The whole "hate" thing is blown out of proportions.
Quote from: The Little Dave on September 10, 2025, 12:41:19 AMbut I do believe that is what the comment you were responding to was pointing out generally
Considering the multiple questions made by English journalists at the Tuchel-Kane press conference that were very clearly aimed at the anti-black racism, I'm pretty sure that the comment were in regards to the said type of discrimination.
Quote from: The Little Dave on September 10, 2025, 12:41:19 AMI find it disturbing to suggest that only people from the region can speak on this issue. I couldn't disagree more with that sentiment. There should be open dialogue on these topics. If someone is clearly misinformed, showing an unwillingness to learn, or is purposefully being harmful, then censorship may be appropriate, but otherwise I am actually more confused by your demand.
From my experience, people from UK are generally very misinformed and only now one side of the story that is always regurgitated by UK media. And I am a firm believer that only people from Kosovo and Metohija (or Gaza or Donbass or whatever conflict area you want to use as an example) know the full story.
Quote from: The Little Dave on September 10, 2025, 12:41:19 AM"Kosovo je Srbija!" in a stadium, protest, or nationalist rally, often with hostility, is a jingoist slogan, and that has no place in a football stadium or around the ground.
I'm sorry but why? Why is it clear to everyone that Russia trying to take over Crimea or Donbass, or Catalonia wanting independence or Scotland or numerous other examples is scandalous, but Kosovo being independent is okay? Ukrainian people can chant whatever they want, but our people can't chant something, that, by international law, is true?
Quote from: The Little Dave on September 10, 2025, 12:41:19 AMI would contend that both of these statements either lack serious context at best or are misleading at worst. I find it unfortunate that such statements are made after directly acknowledging how complex this topic is. I implore you to do more research on the countries that do or don't recognize Kosovo's independence, and you will find that at worst, it is 50/50 (I'm hedging cause I don't even think you could find that), and at best, over 100 countries recognize Kosovo in some way as independent. Regarding the UN, yes, it has defaulted to not recognizing Kosovo, but this has little to do with anything that happens in the region and everything to do with China and Russia being on the Security Council, who for their own reasons, relating to their own circumstances with external self-determination, would veto any move to recognize Kosovo as independent.
Outside of Europe and USA, most of the big countries don't recognise Kosovo as an independent nation. Countries like Brazil, India, Argentina, China,Algeria, DR Kongo, Russia,etc (with some major European countries not recognising them too like Spain or Greece for example). Your point about Security Council is frankly ridiculous. If anything, Russia would have a lot more to gain if they recognised Kosovo. It would create a precedent in international law that would help them in the Russia-Ukraine conflict. And the reasons countries that have recognised Kosovo as independent have for recognising Kosovo as independent (and I will quote you) this has little to do with anything that happens in the region and everything to do with their interests, like for example the huge NATO base, Camp Bondsteel, that we would never have allowed as we want to remain neutral in terms of military alliance.
Quote from: The Little Dave on September 10, 2025, 12:41:19 AM"Kosovo is the heart of Serbia" or "Kosovo is Serbia" being sung by football ultras as defensible. That type of behavior is what UEFA has punished, and rightfully so in my opinion.
Kosovo is the heart of Serbia is being sung because it's a region that's extremely important for our history and identity. It's a region with by far the most monasteries, most of them medieval. We crowned our kings there, we used it as an important religious center. In fact, Metohija (the full name of that region is Kosovo and Metohija, based on the two plains, Kosovo, and Metohija) means "monastery estate". Kosovo is a Serbian name, meaning the field of the blackbird, and blackbird used to be one of our symbols too.
We won't know love all if/until we are in the latter stages of the world cup against a big side in the 2nd half and it's not going well. It's only then if we'll know he's an upgrade on Sir Gareth
Regrettably - couldn't get excited about any of it....
Thanks for your interesting and informative posts SL, hopefully some of us can meet with you for a pint sometime in the future.
Surprising result in view of England's poor performances against weak teams, like Andorra, & Serbia's strong defensive stats in recent games.
You have out a good prediction there SL
Meanwhile very exciting in The Great British Bake Off. Right up until the signature there was a clear favourite to leave. She had had a disaster. But she kept saying she wasn't going to leave yet. Her signature was probably the best or second best and she did save herself.
Quote from: jarv on September 10, 2025, 09:48:49 AMI watched some of it but gave up before half time. Sooooo boring! I feel sad that they invade our domestic schedule for this rubbish. Tippy tappy, sideways, backwards. Awful football. So predicable and nobody demonstrates the excitement of dribbling now. OK, defenders are much better now but there must be some tactic to counter it. Perhaps a bonus point for 3 or more goals, even if it ends up 4-3 loss.
I didn't find in boring whatsoever.
To scruffy old me the most important thing now is that we are back to proper football this weekend. ::thumb:: ::scarf::
I recall when watching England play was a major event. Being told that after struggling to beat a country ranked 174 in the world, they 'have got the job done' I find a tad annoying.
Thank you and good night
Quote from: alfie on September 10, 2025, 12:48:32 PMQuote from: jarv on September 10, 2025, 09:48:49 AMI watched some of it but gave up before half time. Sooooo boring! I feel sad that they invade our domestic schedule for this rubbish. Tippy tappy, sideways, backwards. Awful football. So predicable and nobody demonstrates the excitement of dribbling now. OK, defenders are much better now but there must be some tactic to counter it. Perhaps a bonus point for 3 or more goals, even if it ends up 4-3 loss.
I didn't find in boring whatsoever.
Neither did I, in fact it was a lot more exciting than many Fulham matches.
Quote from: bog on September 10, 2025, 01:17:33 PMTo scruffy old me the most important thing now is that we are back to proper football this weekend. ::thumb:: ::scarf::
I recall when watching England play was a major event. Being told that after struggling to beat a country ranked 174 in the world, they 'have got the job done' I find a tad annoying.
Thank you and good night
Yes it was a good night for England winning 5 0 on Serbias own patch, not many teams are capable of doing that.
I am sure all those England fans that travelled over there will be very happy, and got their monies worth.
Quote from: Woolly Mammoth on September 10, 2025, 02:40:46 PMQuote from: bog on September 10, 2025, 01:17:33 PMTo scruffy old me the most important thing now is that we are back to proper football this weekend. ::thumb:: ::scarf::
I recall when watching England play was a major event. Being told that after struggling to beat a country ranked 174 in the world, they 'have got the job done' I find a tad annoying.
Thank you and good night
Yes it was a good night for England winning 5 0 on Serbias own patch, not many teams are capable of doing that.
I am sure all those England fans that travelled over there will be very happy, and got their monies worth.
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I nearly switched off but managed to see it out. I think that the only reason I stayed watching was through admiration for the Rice/Anderson combo. I did not see any adventurous play or passing just the most inept opposition on the planet.
Quote from: Grassy Noel on September 10, 2025, 04:40:56 PMQuote from: Woolly Mammoth on September 10, 2025, 02:40:46 PMQuote from: bog on September 10, 2025, 01:17:33 PMTo scruffy old me the most important thing now is that we are back to proper football this weekend. ::thumb:: ::scarf::
I recall when watching England play was a major event. Being told that after struggling to beat a country ranked 174 in the world, they 'have got the job done' I find a tad annoying.
Thank you and good night
Yes it was a good night for England winning 5 0 on Serbias own patch, not many teams are capable of doing that.
I am sure all those England fans that travelled over there will be very happy, and got their monies worth.
[/frorquote]
I nearly switched off but managed to see it out. I think that the only reason I stayed watching was through admiration for the Rice/Anderson combo. I did not see any adventurous play or passing just the most inept opposition on the planet.
ENGLAND made Serbia look inept and clumsy, due to the fact that we outplayed them and outsmarted them as the scoreline 0 5 reflected. Most of the game you would have thought England were the home team. Bearing in mind we have a lot of exciting youngsters coming through with another making his debut last night. Also with players like Palmer, Saka and a few others to come back into the squad, the best is yet to come.
Wasn't the game I expected. Serbia having a right good go at home? Not a bit of it and there's the suggestion of something being up in the dressing room. So England got presented with a low block and, for once, gave a masterclass in how to make chances against it. Wasn't exactly thrilling - it takes two teams for that - but my goodness it was effective.
So overall it was a unique enigma rather than exciting. A 5-0 hammering delivered by my team where, instead of basking in the rare sunshine of a goal-fest, it felt more like the halfway point in a Le Carre novel trying to work out what's really going on.
Great discussion
@SerbianLad and Dave. Going to do some further reading.
In my (albeit limited) experience Serbian people are very warm and open minded, and enjoyed reading your breakdown of it.
Quote from: hopper on September 10, 2025, 10:28:57 PMIn my (albeit limited) experience Serbian people are very warm and open minded, and enjoyed reading your breakdown of it.
Cheers! We often get a bad rep in Western European countries and USA, but every foreigner that I've met who came to Serbia had nothing but good things to say about our people.
Obviously there are some idiots here as well, but I believe every country has them, unfortunately. I'd advise anyone who's interested to come visit Serbia, I'm sure they'll have a superb trip. Maybe avoid coming right away though, as there are a lot of anti-government and anti-president protests in the past year and it's probably the worst time possible to come here.
I'd love to visit UK some time in the future too, although it's a lot more complicated than the other way around, as I'd have to go through the whole visa process which is quite tedious and there's no guarantee you'll even get it even if you have spotless criminal record and all that.
Quote from: The Little Dave on September 10, 2025, 12:41:19 AMI find it disturbing to suggest that only people from the region can speak on this issue. I couldn't disagree more with that sentiment.
Your entire post was excellent and I have little to add to it, but did want to expand on this a bit. I'd contend that often times in cases like this it's actually knowledgeable folks from outside the region who can speak most authoritatively because they're not as emotionally connected to the issue and haven't spent a lifetime steeped in nationalistic propaganda.
Just watched the highlights and have to say what a joke decision for the penalty after review. The two players literally went to kick the ball and kicked each other's foot. I ran it several times and could not see a definite touch on the ball from either player, certainly never altered the balls path. It absolutely baffles me what the refs look for.
Quote from: White Knight on September 10, 2025, 08:08:51 PMQuote from: Grassy Noel on September 10, 2025, 04:40:56 PMQuote from: Woolly Mammoth on September 10, 2025, 02:40:46 PMQuote from: bog on September 10, 2025, 01:17:33 PMTo scruffy old me the most important thing now is that we are back to proper football this weekend. ::thumb:: ::scarf::
I recall when watching England play was a major event. Being told that after struggling to beat a country ranked 174 in the world, they 'have got the job done' I find a tad annoying.
Thank you and good night
Yes it was a good night for England winning 5 0 on Serbias own patch, not many teams are capable of doing that.
I am sure all those England fans that travelled over there will be very happy, and got their monies worth.
[/frorquote]
I nearly switched off but managed to see it out. I think that the only reason I stayed watching was through admiration for the Rice/Anderson combo. I did not see any adventurous play or passing just the most inept opposition on the planet.
ENGLAND made Serbia look inept and clumsy, due to the fact that we outplayed them and outsmarted them as the scoreline 0 5 reflected. Most of the game you would have thought England were the home team. Bearing in mind we have a lot of exciting youngsters coming through with another making his debut last night. Also with players like Palmer, Saka, Bellingham, Foden. Wharton, Grealish and a few others to come back into the squad, the best is yet to come.
This thread has run its course.