I don't really rate Dempsey...
Don't get me wrong he's improved a lot but he's too flat footed and I can't help but think that the goals he's scored for the time he's been on the pitch if had there been someone else on we would've still got them or perhaps more from other players in the team.
TBH I've never really rated him as a player and believe that whatever work he does on the training pitch must be the constant reason he finds himself initially on the bench and the works his way onto being a starter - does that mean it's not just me?
Yes I know he's a big game player in many respects but he's always done best when he's come on (for the most part) as a substitute.
His first touch is poor, he's not the fastest player in the world, he normally ends up slowing the game down and If i'm being honest I rarely see him successfully track back.
I can see how he gets first team football - anyone who works as hard as I assume he works can find that an endearing quality and he does score but I think he's not good enough to start, especially when you find more explosive players who can give us a more dimensional attack sitting on the bench.
I think Dembele is a richer mans Dempsey if i'm being honest and don't think / would be suprised if they can both play on the same pitch... both obviously have skill but I'd put dembele technically ahead of Dempsey and wuld also put him down as thefaster of the two.
I know fans are going to disagree with m here but I just don't see it and often fnd myself annoyed at games (and suprisingly so surrounded by seemingly lik minded fans) regarding his ability to frustrate whilst playing. You'll rarely see him successfully chase down a ball he's lost and you'll rarely see him keep the ball close to his feet constantly whilst dribbling - we hav player who can bring more to the fore.
Anyway - now to the dogs....
(http://images2.memegenerator.net/ImageMacro/4844971/cant-tell-if-serious.jpg?imageSize=Large&generatorName=bushconfused)
To elaborate - first season with a new manager, we have a massive striker crisis (we didn't have any) so we ask an attacking midfielder to pretend to be one.
He's scored double the number of goals of his nearest rival. Despite us being the 17th lowest scorers in the Prem, he's just one goal away from being in the top ten strikers all season. He's scored a quarter of our goals. He scored that Juve goal.
But you're joking, right? (I never get irony, especially in written form).
"His first touch is poor, he's not the fastest player in the world, he normally ends up slowing the game down and If i'm being honest I rarely see him successfully track back.
"
Wrong - "His first touch is poor"
Wrong - "I rarely see him track back"
Correct - "He's not the fastest player in the world"
Kinda right/wrong - "he normally slows the game down"
He's an integral part of the club in my opinion. Yes, when he is poor , he is very frustrating but when he's good he's superb.
Dempsey has become one of my Fulham icons and would hate to see him get sold.
Of all the time to doubt Dempsey, I am not sure how this season you have decided that you dont like him.
Dempsey is the reason that we are not adrift at the bottom of the table - he has had a few lesser games recently, and that penalty miss, but he has been pretty much faultless this season.
What is funny about Dempsey is that he is a bit of a utility man, and I think this is why he has often found himself on the bench, yet despite this, has been one of the clubs top scorers in most of his seasons here.
Quote from: ImperialWhite on February 24, 2011, 11:44:47 AM
To elaborate - first season with a new manager, we have a massive striker crisis (we didn't have any) so we ask an attacking midfielder to pretend to be one.
He's scored double the number of goals of his nearest rival. Despite us being the 17th lowest scorers in the Prem, he's just one goal away from being in the top ten strikers all season. He's scored a quarter of our goals. He scored that Juve goal.
But you're joking, right? (I never get irony, especially in written form).
You're just looking at what you want too... I also said in the statement that I thought that if we had other players who were faster, had better first touch or didn't slow the game down we could've had more in our game and possibly scored more than the 10 goals he's contributed.
Your points are void - there's no point in having a striker (attacking midfielder) who's in th top ten strikers in the league when as you said he scores a quarter of the goals... best thing about last season is that we had a lot of players contributing and scoring goals from all over the park - Davies and Dempsey and Duff all got near to 10 goals, whilst Zamora scored 19 and then you're missing out contributions made by defence and other midfield players.
Maybe the fact that he's cored a quarter of our goals and we're 17th in the leaguein goals scoed says it all - maybe he hogs the ball too much, maybe whilst he's scoring goals a faster player could've been scoring more, setting up more or giving us the extra time to make the most out of the games we play by using he ball faster....
Also I said I rarely see him track back successfully.... there's a big difference and it's right, not wrong.
His firs touch is also extremely frustrating - I sit in the riverside stand and keep a close eye on himin quite a few games and there hae always been games where his first touch has been so poor that the ball's run away from him and gone to the oppositions players leaving someone else on our team to track back.
Now whilst I'm a sinic against Dempsey as you'r all finding outhe does have his games where you jut have to sit back and say it's his day - the 2-2 draw against Chelsea at the cottage a couple of seasonsack rings a bell and he scored that liverpool goal but I can't help if we got rid of him and AJ and replaced them with more tactical and skillfull (ot to mention faster) players we'd be doing a lot better and on a much more even field across the team.
Quote from: Tktd on February 24, 2011, 12:03:10 PM
Quote from: ImperialWhite on February 24, 2011, 11:44:47 AM
To elaborate - first season with a new manager, we have a massive striker crisis (we didn't have any) so we ask an attacking midfielder to pretend to be one.
He's scored double the number of goals of his nearest rival. Despite us being the 17th lowest scorers in the Prem, he's just one goal away from being in the top ten strikers all season. He's scored a quarter of our goals. He scored that Juve goal.
But you're joking, right? (I never get irony, especially in written form).
You're just looking at what you want too... I also said in the statement that I thought that if we had other players who were faster, had better first touch or didn't slow the game down we could've had more in our game and possibly scored more than the 10 goals he's contributed.
Your points are void - there's no point in having a striker (attacking midfielder) who's in th top ten strikers in the league when as you said he scores a quarter of the goals... best thing about last season is that we had a lot of players contributing and scoring goals from all over the park - Davies and Dempsey and Duff all got near to 10 goals, whilst Zamora scored 19 and then you're missing out contributions made by defence and other midfield players.
Maybe the fact that he's cored a quarter of our goals and we're 17th in the leaguein goals scoed says it all - maybe he hogs the ball too much, maybe whilst he's scoring goals a faster player could've been scoring more, setting up more or giving us the extra time to make the most out of the games we play by using he ball faster....
Also I said I rarely see him track back successfully.... there's a big difference and it's right, not wrong.
His firs touch is also extremely frustrating - I sit in the riverside stand and keep a close eye on himin quite a few games and there hae always been games where his first touch has been so poor that the ball's run away from him and gone to the oppositions players leaving someone else on our team to track back.
Now whilst I'm a sinic against Dempsey as you'r all finding outhe does have his games where you jut have to sit back and say it's his day - the 2-2 draw against Chelsea at the cottage a couple of seasonsack rings a bell and he scored that liverpool goal but I can't help if we got rid of him and AJ and replaced them with more tactical and skillfull (ot to mention faster) players we'd be doing a lot better and on a much more even field across the team.
How can the fact that he has scored 10 goals this season be void?
He is not really a ball hog either, and has taken a battering playing up front on his own.
Your argument that others 'could' have scored more goals if they have been given the chance is a ridiculous statement. Kamara, EJ and Gera were all given extensive time up front this season and pretty much contributed sweet fa.
Our problem with a lack of 'team goals' this season is more to do with key injuries to strikers than to then fact that Dempsey is on the field, by your reckoning we are actively worse with him on the field, which is one of the most ridiculous statements that I have ever read on this forum.
His first touch is poor - Wrong
He's not the fastest player in the world - You're right, but we are Fulham, not Barcelona
He normally ends up slowing the game down - Wrong
Successfully track back - Well, I think his best position is as a striker, not as a RM/LM
I think Dembele is a richer mans Dempsey - Dempsey scores, is technically better than him; Dembele is younger, that is his advantage... and both are doing great on the pitch, Dembele as LM and Dempsey as a striker would be ideal
Now, Dempsey scored very important goals, and not just this season. Without him, we would be 17th or something like that.
But, look at the statistics: Dempsey, 9 goals in the Premier League, 1 in the Carling Cup. Kamara has a total of 5 goals, 2 goals in the Prem, one against Arsenal after a perfect pass from Dempsey.
As for assists, Dempsey is the second alongside Davies with 4, both after Gera with 6.
Right now he needs a rest, for one game, that's all. And yes, I'm a big fan of him, and I think alongside Zamora, Hangeland, and Murphy, he is our most talented player.
Quote from: ImperialWhite on February 24, 2011, 11:44:47 AM
Despite us being the 17th lowest scorers in the Prem, he's just one goal away from being in the top ten strikers all season. He's scored a quarter of our goals. He scored that Juve goal.
+1
He's good, sometimes very good, for us but let's not kid ourselves he's Liverpool (or similar) quality.
Oh and he's not on pens anymore!
Dempsey is ok. Things that annoy/frustrate me about him.
- Going down stupidly easily
- The incredibly annoying shots from 30-35 yards...(Yes he scores 1 a season out of probably 100)
He works hard enough though and pops up with some headed goals....trying to think of any shots he's scored this season that werent pens.... cant think.....help....
it's easy to pick apart someone else's argument, so I will. But I will say upfront, that of the two, I find Dembele a more consistent player than Dempsey, but then again, he is more consistent than anyone else in the team. Only Hughes can come close to Dembele for that.
Quote from: Tktd on February 24, 2011, 11:36:45 AM
Don't get me wrong he's improved a lot but he's too flat footed and I can't help but think that the goals he's scored for the time he's been on the pitch if had there been someone else on we would've still got them or perhaps more from other players in the team.
I don't see this so much. Putting the Juve goal aside, I see Dempsey going for balls in the box, putting his head where most others wouldn't dare, just to get the chance to get a goal. Perhaps that means he needs to try that harder because he hasn't got the natural predator style of some of the great strikers, perhaps not.
Quote from: Tktd on February 24, 2011, 11:36:45 AM
TBH I've never really rated him as a player and believe that whatever work he does on the training pitch must be the constant reason he finds himself initially on the bench and the works his way onto being a starter - does that mean it's not just me?
Well, I don't see that Sparky is one to have the wool pulled over his eyes so easily. I believe he sees Dempseys work rate and understands that he does give a lot to the team and provides the kind of play that Sparky wants to see.
Quote from: Tktd on February 24, 2011, 11:36:45 AM
Yes I know he's a big game player in many respects but he's always done best when he's come on (for the most part) as a substitute.
Perhaps that's because he seemed to be used as a substitute for so long when we had our full compliment of Strikers, and a plethora of midfield players to select from. Since the striker shortage, very few of the other midfielders could step into that role with any chance of success.
Quote from: Tktd on February 24, 2011, 11:36:45 AM
His first touch is poor, he's not the fastest player in the world, he normally ends up slowing the game down and If i'm being honest I rarely see him successfully track back.
This I would totally disagree with. He does slow the game down, that's his style of play, but that is also Bobbys as well. His first touch is rarely worse than the Smurphs, and as for tracking back, you should keep more of an eye on him, as, especially since Salcido joined us at left back, Dempsey is often seen supporting him at the back, and that's no mean feat for a striker. He is seen more tracking back than either Bobby or Dembele has been seen in a very long time. And don't get me started about AJ, that guy seems to think he will disappear in a puff of smoke should he be the defence side of the half-way line!!
Quote from: Tktd on February 24, 2011, 11:36:45 AM
I can see how he gets first team football - anyone who works as hard as I assume he works can find that an endearing quality and he does score but I think he's not good enough to start, especially when you find more explosive players who can give us a more dimensional attack sitting on the bench.
I guess the question is, who? And what more can they bring to the game, especially, as you rightly mention, comparing work-rates.
Quote from: Tktd on February 24, 2011, 11:36:45 AM
I think Dembele is a richer mans Dempsey if i'm being honest and don't think / would be suprised if they can both play on the same pitch... both obviously have skill but I'd put dembele technically ahead of Dempsey and wuld also put him down as the faster of the two.
No argument from me on that one at all.
Quote from: Tktd on February 24, 2011, 11:36:45 AM
I know fans are going to disagree with m here but I just don't see it and often fnd myself annoyed at games (and suprisingly so surrounded by seemingly lik minded fans) regarding his ability to frustrate whilst playing. You'll rarely see him successfully chase down a ball he's lost and you'll rarely see him keep the ball close to his feet constantly whilst dribbling - we hav player who can bring more to the fore.
Again, I guess the question is, who?
I'm not trying to destroy your arguments here, just giving a perspective from another side, and yes, I am in the Dempsey camp, I believe he still has the potential to become a better player, and his staying with Fulham, I believe, is a great bonus to us. There are very few outfield players I can honestly say I believe in, in the Fulham side for many a year, perhaps Saha, and Steed spring to mind in more recent times, to name a few.
I love the fact that before the last three posters posted the posters who were trying to back him up were still disagreeing on what he was good and bad at...
Pretty sure where one poster said he slowed down the game another said he didn't and then the same poster said he was good at something else which another poster then admitted they thought he was no good...
Which is it!?
'trying to think of any shots he's scored this season that werent pens'
First goal against Wigan for a start.
I'm not a massive fan of clint yes he pops up with goals some very important but I don't find him a team player and rate him even less as a midfielder
Quote from: BalDrick on February 24, 2011, 12:26:45 PM
'trying to think of any shots he's scored this season that werent pens'
First goal against Wigan for a start.
Was that not a header?
Although I now remember the second was a Volley so I'll give him that....
Quote from: Ordar on February 24, 2011, 12:40:42 PM
Quote from: BalDrick on February 24, 2011, 12:26:45 PM
'trying to think of any shots he's scored this season that werent pens'
First goal against Wigan for a start.
Was that not a header?
Although I now remember the second was a Volley so I'll give him that....
You might be right in the order, but certainly one goal was a volley, and a damned fine one at that.
Actually, his heading is something that may get overlooked. He's not that tall but he still gets enough headed goals. Who else does for us? Brede, that's about it.
Quote from: BalDrick on February 24, 2011, 12:43:18 PM
Quote from: Ordar on February 24, 2011, 12:40:42 PM
Quote from: BalDrick on February 24, 2011, 12:26:45 PM
'trying to think of any shots he's scored this season that werent pens'
First goal against Wigan for a start.
Was that not a header?
Although I now remember the second was a Volley so I'll give him that....
You might be right in the order, but certainly one goal was a volley, and a damned fine one at that.
Actually, his heading is something that may get overlooked. He's not that tall but he still gets enough headed goals. Who else does for us? Brede, that's about it.
http://www.football-lineups.com/team/Fulham/FA_Premier_League_2010-2011/Stats/ (http://www.football-lineups.com/team/Fulham/FA_Premier_League_2010-2011/Stats/)
According to football-lineups:
Demps: 5
Hangeland: 3
AJ(!), Hughes, Zamora: 1
Well we have score more headed goals than anyone else in the league, and also the highest percentage of goals to headed goals.
Very surprising really as our set piece delivery on the whole is terrible.
Obviously playing Dempsey wide is going to pretty much dry up his goal scoring, as he doesnt get into the heading positioning in open play from wide.
Ha ha, well how about this! Stat from OptaJoe posted a few minutes ago:
@OptaJoe 37 - Only Didier Drogba (39) has hit more shots on target in the PL this season than Fulham's Clint Dempsey. Offense.
On Sunday we'll have 9 players competing for 4 starting positions.
Dempsey, Dembele, Duff, Gera, Davies, Zamora, Johnson, Gudjohnson and Kakuta.
Of those 9 I reckon Dempsey is more certain to start than any of the others apart, perhaps, from Dembele and that would be because Mark Hughes sees what he's worth and that's an opinion worth more than any of ours.
Dempsey offers endeavour and goal threat.
Quote from: ImperialWhite on February 24, 2011, 12:52:48 PM
Ha ha, well how about this! Stat from OptaJoe posted a few minutes ago:
@OptaJoe 37 - Only Didier Drogba (39) has hit more shots on target in the PL this season than Fulham's Clint Dempsey. Offense.
Dempsey does love a 30 yard pea roller though, much like drogba to be fair
ok he does fall over a lot, and lose the ball, and shots from any position, and fails to help his fullback, and seems to not understand how to run into space, oh and he lacks pace.....but he is top goalscorer.
Quote from: MJG on February 24, 2011, 01:04:23 PM
ok he does fall over a lot, and lose the ball, and shots from any position, and fails to help his fullback, and seems to not understand how to run into space, oh and he lacks pace.....but he is top goalscorer.
Exactly! :045:
With regard to his long shots, you have to assume that if Hughes was unimpressed, he'd have had a word. Doesn't always connect but they're always worth a go the way the ball swerves these days like Botham under leaden skies. Because of that, there's always the chance the keeper won't hold it - a corner or a tap-in for any striker following it up. Bearing in mind how many players teams put between us and the goal, sometimes a dig is the better option.
OK, you generated a lot here but I will add my tuppence worth. You have got to be joking :58: He is pure class. First touch is excellent. I said when we signed hiom, he reminded me of a young Rodney marsh (he didn't have too much pace either). Good players without much pace...Adebayor, Shearer,, Gascoigne, Alonso, Darren Bent, Crouch, etc etc.
He falls over a lot because he is in the firing line. Opponents are kicking him, holding him, pulling his shirt, you name it.
He has carried the US team on his own on many occasions. His first world cup, he was the only American to show up. The confed. cup which they got to the final, he was magnificent, he led the way and showed the others what it takes.
My concern is Fulham might cash in on him next summer.
Quote from: Tktd on February 24, 2011, 11:36:45 AM
I don't really rate Dempsey...
No surprise there, since anyone who rates Gera and Kamara highly must do this at the expense of someone who's starting and it might as well be Dempsey. Query: Assuming all 3 had been offered during the transfer window just passed, what fees could we have expected for each? If you answer honestly, then you must at least accept that the rest of the football world rates these 3 players differently than you do.
'My concern is Fulham might cash in on him next summer.'
Do you really think anyone's going to make an offer so big we can't turn it down? Who?
FWIW, I fear Pardew is going to be sniffing after Zamora. At the moment I wouldn't describe him as a tapper-upper, à la Ferguson or Whinger, but you never know.
Quote from: Ordar on February 24, 2011, 01:10:04 PM
Quote from: MJG on February 24, 2011, 01:04:23 PM
ok he does fall over a lot, and lose the ball, and shots from any position, and fails to help his fullback, and seems to not understand how to run into space, oh and he lacks pace.....but he is top goalscorer.
Exactly! :045:
Ha ha - feel a doh! moment coming on!
Quote from: BalDrick on February 24, 2011, 12:26:45 PM
'trying to think of any shots he's scored this season that werent pens'
First goal against Wigan for a start.
That's one. And considering we've only had 4 penalties this season, one of which was a miss, there must be a few more!
Quote from: jarv on February 24, 2011, 01:15:13 PM
OK, you generated a lot here but I will add my tuppence worth. You have got to be joking :58: He is pure class. First touch is excellent. I said when we signed hiom, he reminded me of a young Rodney marsh (he didn't have too much pace either). Good players without much pace...Adebayor, Shearer,, Gascoigne, Alonso, Darren Bent, Crouch, etc etc.
He falls over a lot because he is in the firing line. Opponents are kicking him, holding him, pulling his shirt, you name it.
He has carried the US team on his own on many occasions. His first world cup, he was the only American to show up. The confed. cup which they got to the final, he was magnificent, he led the way and showed the others what it takes.
My concern is Fulham might cash in on him next summer.
Are you really comparing Dempsey to Adebayor, Shearer, Gascoigne, Alonso, Bent and Crouch?.... It's official - I've won this arguement you're confused - need an injection!...
Quote from: MikeR on February 24, 2011, 01:17:07 PM
Quote from: Tktd on February 24, 2011, 11:36:45 AM
I don't really rate Dempsey...
No surprise there, since anyone who rates Gera and Kamara highly must do this at the expense of someone who's starting and it might as well be Dempsey. Query: Assuming all 3 had been offered during the transfer window just passed, what fees could we have expected for each? If you answer honestly, then you must at least accept that the rest of the football world rates these 3 players differently than you do.
That's probably because given their ages amongst other things I wouldn't pay more for Gera and Kamara - despite preferring what they can give to the squad and team dimensionally. Dempsey is younger - I would though be suprised if Dempsey genuinely commanded a fee over £6 million - the price we paid for Kamara.
Sir, you said he has NO PACE. Don't entirely disagree with you on this one but many, many ,many players have no pace. :dead horse:
Quote from: Tktd on February 24, 2011, 11:36:45 AMI don't really rate Dempsey...
Ok. I'll bite. Somehow this strikes me as a well-worked wind up for the Americans in the crowd, but oh well. Here we go.
QuoteDon't get me wrong he's improved a lot but he's too flat footed and I can't help but think that the goals he's scored for the time he's been on the pitch if had there been someone else on we would've still got them or perhaps more from other players in the team.
Can't disagree with the improvement bit. He's improved tremendously since coming from The U.S. What do you mean by "flat footed"? I've watched him plenty (admittedly and unfortunately only on televsion) and "flat footed" would never come into my mind as a description of the way he plays.
As for someone who would've scored the goals he's scored for us this year, please name the player(s) whom we've had opportunities to get, who we could also afford, who'd willingly take the beatings he has, who'd keep his mouth shut when he was benched and work his way back into the squad, who'd not cause a single problem off the pitch for the club, and on, and on. Make no mistake. All those things contribute to the success of the club.
QuoteTBH I've never really rated him as a player and believe that whatever work he does on the training pitch must be the constant reason he finds himself initially on the bench and the works his way onto being a starter - does that mean it's not just me?
Why does there have to be a criticism of his training habits? Do you have first hand knowledge that he doesn't work hard enough at training? Couldn't the reason that he's had to work his way onto the starting 11 be that he's a "tweener" (not exactly a winger, not exactly a striker) type of player and most managers want players well suited to specific roles? Perhaps four managers in a row have decided that despite the fact that he doesn't suit specific roles he's just to good to afford stitting for 60 or more minutes before putting him to use.
QuoteYes I know he's a big game player in many respects but he's always done best when he's come on (for the most part) as a substitute.
Can only disagree with the use of "always" here. Every player on the team has done best when they've had great games. Everyone has their failings. Everyone has their stellar games. It's the nature of things. Clint does well as both a starter and a sub.
QuoteHis first touch is poor, he's not the fastest player in the world, he normally ends up slowing the game down and If i'm being honest I rarely see him successfully track back.
His first touch is not poor. It has been on occasion, but that can be said for every player on the team.
You're right about his speed. But the same could be said about every player on Fulham. So the point is moot.
I'd say that he slows the game down most often because the situation requires it - same as any other player on the team. Slowing things down when they shouldn't be ( a mistake ) from my memory and as a description of most of our players would be the exception to their games and not the rule.
Saying he doesn't successfully track back is admitting blindness.
QuoteI can see how he gets first team football - anyone who works as hard as I assume he works can find that an endearing quality and he does score but I think he's not good enough to start, especially when you find more explosive players who can give us a more dimensional attack sitting on the bench.
Yet you don't name the more explosive, more dimensional bench players he should be replaced with. Such a curious omission?
QuoteI think Dembele is a richer mans Dempsey if i'm being honest and don't think / would be suprised if they can both play on the same pitch... both obviously have skill but I'd put dembele technically ahead of Dempsey and wuld also put him down as thefaster of the two.
How could he not be? We paid more for him. Dembele is a very talented player and a very hard worker. On that I do not disagree. But he has limitations as well. He dribbles straight into trouble often times when, if he picked his head up, he'd be far more dangerous with a pass. He's yet to demonstrate consistent scoring ability. Having said that, I have no doubt that he'll improve with time just as Clint and many other who've come from other leagues ahve done.
QuoteI know fans are going to disagree with m here but I just don't see it and often fnd myself annoyed at games (and suprisingly so surrounded by seemingly lik minded fans) regarding his ability to frustrate whilst playing. You'll rarely see him successfully chase down a ball he's lost and you'll rarely see him keep the ball close to his feet constantly whilst dribbling - we hav player who can bring more to the fore.
My guess is that you counted on the disagreement before you started typing. It's Fulham you must remember. We all find ourselves annoyed at games. And I'd wager you could find fans who'd agree with criticisms of every player on the team. You've just focused on the one it seems.
As to your added criticisms and suggestion that there are ready made replacements for him sitting our bench, I'll only say again that it's curious that you don't take the opportunity to name them.
QuoteAnyway - now to the dogs....
Woof! Woof! Grrrr!
I just wanted to add, in reply to the criticism that Demps takes the odd 30-35 yard shot - someone has to do that from time to time. If it's never done, then defenses don't have to respect that portion of the field and that makes every thing inside that 30-35 yards much tougher to break down. Shooting from there draws defending teams out and creates more space to operate closer to goal.
Obviously the shot isn't going to come off often. Its the fact that he and others have demonstrated the ability to score from out there from time to time combined with the value of that potential goal given that Fulham are usually so good defensively that forces teams to defend it.
ok Tktd I'll probably get some stick for this but I totally agree with your original comment. Dempsey has only been scoring because no-one else has been as far forward as him and Not Tracking Back to finish someone else's brilliant work. He is a goal poacher that gets lucky when fantastic work from a wide player gives him a chance for an easy tap-in. Juve goal sheer class (had to put it in)
Quote from: Sheepskin Junior on February 24, 2011, 02:55:37 PM
ok Tktd I'll probably get some stick for this but I totally agree with your original comment. Dempsey has only been scoring because no-one else has been as far forward as him and Not Tracking Back to finish someone else's brilliant work. He is a goal poacher that gets lucky when fantastic work from a wide player gives him a chance for an easy tap-in. Juve goal sheer class (had to put it in)
:doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:
This is a pretty strange thread I think. Of all people to pick out of the squad to disect, I'm just not sure why anyone would pick out the leading scorer and one of two candidates for Player of the Year. I guess some folks have to be contrary just for the fun of it.
Instead of refuting your obnoxious claims, just enjoy this video in which you will see why Dempsey shoots from distance (in the first 30 secs), how he does in fact have a goal poachers instinct, how he is the best header of the ball we have on this team (including Brede who is 5 inches+ taller) and the ability to score pure determination goals (checkout the Blackburn goal).... and these are not even from this season or much of last...no Juve or Stoke goals to glam it up...
Clint Dempsey Fulham Star (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7zqzs_Gy9s#)
Never known a player to divide opinion so much as Dempsey.
Even during games you have supporters and detractors.
There are things that do frustrate...
- He floats in and out of games.
- He can be inconsistent one game to the next, or even during.
- He goes to ground a bit too easily.
- Please, no more penalties...
On the other side of the coin...
- He is committed to the Fulham cause.
- He scores goals. With his head and his feet.
- He is capable on the ball.
- He tries the unexpected.
- He puts in a decent enough shift.
He is not a top-4 club player. He wouldn't be an automatic first-choice pick for any of them.
In other words, despite his limitations, he is just right for us :003:
Thanks for the video all 4:17 secs of it... it could've been longer as Dempsey has scored muc better goals than those.... the question though is not what he can already do, but what and how often he's found wanting because of all the bits in between those you've illustrated in the video... is there a video of all his bad attributes? I doubt it. Doesn't mean they don't exist though.
It's about consistancy and other mental things and technical things being a professional footballer - what I'm saying is I think he's not as good as everyone says he is and I find him as a player frustrating and at times I think he jus isn't good enough (mainly when comparing to others views of him) - I think he could be a lot better - his speed, touch and ability to be inconsistant whether taking shots which trickle along the ground relatively often or the amount of time it takes him to find his feet with the ball at his feet when we're counter attacking in which we lose momentum etc is irritating.
I believe we have players who make up for those skills he lacks but also maintain the basics he does well which for me means that he's a bench player and possibly a super sub.
I've been a season ticket holder for coming upto 14 years and have missed very few home matches and made my fair few trips to away games, I was at the Juve game, the liverpool game and many many more, I know how bad players can be and I've watched this club in more divisions than most - I appreciate therefoe his contribution but think there is better in the squad given the time he has in the team who could make a bigger impact - Gera, Davies and Dembele are three and give us a better and more dynamic dimension whlst playing and also I think add more to the team in assists, build up play to goals, attacking football, better touch etc etc....
Gera has been rubbish this season and Davies injured for parts. IMO, neither comes close to Dempsey (of this season).
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on February 24, 2011, 04:14:12 PM
Gera has been rubbish this season and Davies injured for parts. IMO, neither comes close to Dempsey (of this season).
Can you really compare two players one of whom, in Dempsey, has played 29 games to a player who's played 13 games?... Dempsey has scored 10 in all competitions compared to Gera who's scored 4 in all competitions... Gera also has 6 assists in comparison to Dempsey's 4...
So What I've been trying to say is that I think Gera has more to offer the team and would do if given the time on the field to prove himself.
Gera - in total 10 goals either scored or contributed to in 13 games - Dempsey - 15 in 29 games. Sounding a bit less crazy now.
I will say again - whilst i'm not Dempseys biggest fan I do see some value in him - that said I see it from the bench - and based on those figures - taken from Fulhamfc.com it'd look like I'd be right in thinking so...
Now if we take AJ out for Davies do we get the same type of stats - Simon Davies - assists 4 and 2 goals - 6 goals scored or contributed to in 23 games AJ - 2 goals and 3 assists... contribution = 5 goals scored or assisted in 12games.... So AJ would seem to be more productive so I stnd corrected on him althouh would argue can you compare a striker to a midfielde???
But making or scoring goals isn't the entire contribution is it? For any player.
Quote from: Tktd on February 24, 2011, 04:29:50 PM
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on February 24, 2011, 04:14:12 PM
Gera has been rubbish this season and Davies injured for parts. IMO, neither comes close to Dempsey (of this season).
Can you really compare two players one of whom, in Dempsey, has played 29 games to a player who's played 13 games?... Dempsey has scored 10 in all competitions compared to Gera who's scored 4 in all competitions... Gera also has 6 assists in comparison to Dempsey's 4...
So What I've been trying to say is that I think Gera has more to offer the team and would do if given the time on the field to prove himself.
Gera - in total 10 goals either scored or contributed to in 13 games - Dempsey - 15 in 29 games. Sounding a bit less crazy now.
I will say again - whilst i'm not Dempseys biggest fan I do see some value in him - that said I see it from the bench - and based on those figures - taken from Fulhamfc.com it'd look like I'd be right in thinking so...
Now if we take AJ out for Davies do we get the same type of stats - Simon Davies - assists 4 and 2 goals - 6 goals scored or contributed to in 23 games AJ - 2 goals and 3 assists... contribution = 5 goals scored or assisted in 12games.... So AJ would seem to be more productive so I stnd corrected on him althouh would argue can you compare a striker to a midfielde???
The problem with the 'all competition' stats is that they completely distort the real picture.
Gera scored 2 goals and got 3 assists against Port Vale in the league cup, and a further goal and another assist in the FA cup against peterborough. Say what you want but he has produced against minnows and not in the Premier League.
Also, according to the Fulham website, he has made 24 appearances this season in the league rather than 13, scoring 1 goal and notching up 2 assists. Dempsey has made 27 apps in the league scoring 9 goal and helping out with four assists. Those are the pertinent stats.
I like Gera but I dont think he has offered much this season and that is why he has been warming the bench. Dempsey has been the heart and soul of the team whilst we went through a striking crisis - now he has had a couple of off games and missed a penalty (that he won completely on his own) the knives are out, which IMO is pretty disrespectful of what he has done for Fulham this season.
Current Top 25 players in the Prem from ACTIM... FTR...Brede is 31
1 Dimitar Berbatov Man Utd 504
2 Florent Malouda Chelsea 456
3 Nemanja Vidic Man Utd 438
4 Carlos Tevez Man City 436
5 Didier Drogba Chelsea 383
6 Luis Nani Man Utd 376
7 Kevin Nolan Newcastle 375
8 Gareth Bale Tottenham 372
9 Joe Hart Man City 362
10 Patrice Evra Man Utd 359
11 Alex Song Arsenal 355
12 Vincent Kompany Man City 354
13 Darren Fletcher Man Utd 346
14 Nicolas Anelka Chelsea 342
15 Morten Gamst Pedersen Blackburn 341
16 John Terry Chelsea 339
17 Andrey Arshavin Arsenal 336
18 Petr Cech Chelsea 335
19 Ashley Cole Chelsea 335
20 Samir Nasri Arsenal 331
21 Clint Dempsey Fulham 331
22 Dirk Kuyt Liverpool 324
23 Gareth Barry Man City 321
24 Stewart Downing Aston Villa 319
25 Jose Reina Liverpool 318
Burt hit the nail on the head :007: For whatever reason Clint is the most polarizing player on the squad.
Tbh I stopped going on the offal years ago just to avoid all the 'Dempsey is a...' threads. Admittingly yanks in our desperate need to have an American succeed can turn a blind eye to faults. However, it's silly to argue anything but that he has improved every year since he got here. Hmm, I wonder if it's attributed to his obviously poor work habits in training? :023:
Quote from: Tktd on February 24, 2011, 04:29:50 PM
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on February 24, 2011, 04:14:12 PM
Gera has been rubbish this season and Davies injured for parts. IMO, neither comes close to Dempsey (of this season).
Can you really compare two players one of whom, in Dempsey, has played 29 games to a player who's played 13 games?... Dempsey has scored 10 in all competitions compared to Gera who's scored 4 in all competitions... Gera also has 6 assists in comparison to Dempsey's 4...
So What I've been trying to say is that I think Gera has more to offer the team and would do if given the time on the field to prove himself.
Gera - in total 10 goals either scored or contributed to in 13 games - Dempsey - 15 in 29 games. Sounding a bit less crazy now.
I will say again - whilst i'm not Dempseys biggest fan I do see some value in him - that said I see it from the bench - and based on those figures - taken from Fulhamfc.com it'd look like I'd be right in thinking so...
Now if we take AJ out for Davies do we get the same type of stats - Simon Davies - assists 4 and 2 goals - 6 goals scored or contributed to in 23 games AJ - 2 goals and 3 assists... contribution = 5 goals scored or assisted in 12games.... So AJ would seem to be more productive so I stnd corrected on him althouh would argue can you compare a striker to a midfielde???
3 of 4 of Gera's goals came against Port Vale and Peterborough in Cup competition blowouts. While, to use your words, I do see the value in them, they pale against the importance of 9 of Clint's 10 goals that have gone a long long way toward our survival while we awaited our injured. So, while I see where you're going with Gera's 10 in 13 versus Clint's 15 in 29 comparison, it just doesn't work for me.
I'm a Gera fan by the way and wish he'd seen more of the field this season, just not at the expense of Dempsey. We'd have scored more goals with both on the field IMO.
'I like Gera but I dont think he has offered much this season and that is why he has been warming the bench. Dempsey has been the heart and soul of the team whilst we went through a striking crisis - now he has had a couple of off games and missed a penalty (that he won completely on his own) the knives are out, which IMO is pretty disrespectful of what he has done for Fulham this season.'
What I imagine the original point was is that Gera may have been a tad unlucky not to get the nod in front of Dempsey as the person to do all this work. Once Deuce got the nod, and started producing, then frankly the writing was on the wall for Gera, barring injury. And as Gera has become staler, he has looked less impressive coming off the bench.
What it all boils down to is is there room in the squad for both players? Personally I like them both but I think Deuce shades it as a player - not by a huge distance though. Who will play off Zamora is of course the next question. Had RH stayed then Gera could well have expected to be asked to do the job, but he didn't so he won't be.
Quote from: BalDrick on February 24, 2011, 04:52:40 PM
'I like Gera but I dont think he has offered much this season and that is why he has been warming the bench. Dempsey has been the heart and soul of the team whilst we went through a striking crisis - now he has had a couple of off games and missed a penalty (that he won completely on his own) the knives are out, which IMO is pretty disrespectful of what he has done for Fulham this season.'
What I imagine the original point was is that Gera may have been a tad unlucky not to get the nod in front of Dempsey as the person to do all this work. Once Deuce got the nod, and started producing, then frankly the writing was on the wall for Gera, barring injury. And as Gera has become staler, he has looked less impressive coming off the bench.
What it all boils down to is is there room in the squad for both players? Personally I like them both but I think Deuce shades it as a player - not by a huge distance though. Who will play off Zamora is of course the next question. Had RH stayed then Gera could well have expected to be asked to do the job, but he didn't so he won't be.
See, I am not even sure you are asking the right question - is there room for both Dembele and Gera in the same team? As soon as Dembele arrived, Gera was benched as he cannot really play on the wing.
Dempsey on the other hand can play LM/RM/CF/SS basically a midfield/forward utility man. Therein lies the value of Clint.
Who do you think the fans love best? Dempsey. Without any doubt.
He makes more column inches than any other player, he sells more shirts, he puts his body on the line every game, he never gives up, he makes things happen, he is lucky, he is skillful, he scores more goals than almost any other player of his type in the division, he is that rarest of things - a successful American who is also likeable, he is determined to succeed but humble enough to never take his place for granted, he wants to improve, he is rarely injured, his stats suggest he does more of most things than anyone else, he is resolutely Fulham and has never let paper talk distract him.
He is the sort of player I am happy for my kids to idolise and he is partly what I imagine the players of old to have been like. He is not flashy or celebrity obsessed and seems to be a devoted family man.
Whats more, he will never leave Fulham. He is good enough to be amongst the best at a club like Fulham but not quite good enough to move to a top 5 club. His popularity will oustrip that of McBride and he will go down as one of the foremost Fulham players of the modern era. (And this thread will be one of the longest running!! :005:)
Whats not to like?
Quote from: White Noise on February 24, 2011, 05:05:21 PM
Who do you think the fans love best? Dempsey. Without any doubt.
He makes more column inches than any other player, he sells more shirts, he puts his body on the line every game, he never gives up, he makes things happen, he is lucky, he is skillful, he scores more goals than almost any other player of his type in the division, he is that rarest of things - a successful American who is also likeable, he is determined to succeed but humble enough to never take his place for granted, he wants to improve, he is rarely injured, his stats suggest he does more of most things than anyone else, he is resolutely Fulham and has never let paper talk distract him.
He is the sort of player I am happy for my kids to idolise and he is partly what I imagine the players of old to have been like. He is not flashy or celebrity obsessed and seems to be a devoted family man.
Whats more, he will never leave Fulham. He is good enough to be amongst the best at a club like Fulham but not quite good enough to move to a top 5 club. His popularity will oustrip that of McBride and he will go down as one of the foremost Fulham players of the modern era. (And this thread will be one of the longest running!! :005:)
Whats not to like?
+3... (why 3? because my two dogs Lazz and Macy who both watch every game with me get a vote too and they love da Deuce...)
Dempsey is the Gary Brazil of today, half of us rate him the other half do not.
I like him but my god does he get on my nerves with diving, yes diving, ok its part of the modern game but it would be good to see him try to stay on his feet a bit more than he does. His main trick is the two feet together and then timberrrrrrrrrr down he goes as soon as someone touches him.
The other main moan about him is he does not take the ball with him, he sort of drags it along the ground instead of having real control over it and then he loseses the ball.
But as I said earlier he is top goalscorer and we would be a lesser squad without him.
Quote from: Tktd on February 24, 2011, 04:29:50 PM
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on February 24, 2011, 04:14:12 PM
Gera has been rubbish this season and Davies injured for parts. IMO, neither comes close to Dempsey (of this season).
Can you really compare two players one of whom, in Dempsey, has played 29 games to a player who's played 13 games?
Well, YOU did, so I guess its fair for others to as well. isn't it? You have been prattling on about what a waste of space Dempsey is, and why Gera et al others should be starters except him, but when push comes to shove, you cannot back your assertions up. The bottom line is that you appear to disagree with Sparky's choice of player. You deride others on here that provide something to back their arguments up, and little else to disprove them. I've got an idea, as you seem to like to second-guess Sparky in respect to Demps, why don't you become a manger, and see how you fair? Unfortunately, I would do the same, but I know my place in this world, and Football Management is nowhere on my horizons.
I don't know what the problem is. Dempsey's been an important part of our most successful ever team. If he's not absolute top quality then that explains why he's still with us. In addition, like our entire squad, he appears to be honest, decent and grounded unlike far too many footballers.
Oh Dear White Noise - Normally such a formiddable and diplomatic poster - lets dissect...
Quote from: White Noise on February 24, 2011, 05:05:21 PM
Who do you think the fans love best? Dempsey. Without any doubt.
- Ok , have to disagree with you on the first point... if he's the players the fans love most than why are we having this discussion - he's obviously not everyone's cup of tea and as a player his popularity within the stands isn't as great as you may think... he's someone who no doubt has a lot of people split down the middle - maybe that's what he is, a mediocre player!? - he is though improving constantly but fan favourite? Not so sure - definately not up there with Hangeland, Pantsil (when he was playing and not scoring own goals), Zamora etc...
He makes more column inches than any other player,
can't disagree with that but those column inches are more about his attractive story - boy comes from impoverished background, h to go miles and miles to play football catered for by loving parents, then sister had promising career as tennis player and Dempsey made sacrifice , then sister sadly (and I mean that genuinely) dies, shaking Dempseys world and making him fight for a football career and dedicate it to his family and sister. - His story is true and one I respect a lot, but it is the majority of what articles about him entail. That or his rapping. The fact that he's one of few Americans who've made it/are making it over here - Friedel, Howard, McBride and Dempsey been all of them and maybe Bocanegra, makes it a massive story in the states - almost like when England have a star of the future who noones really seen play and then the press wax yrical about him and then he does diddly squat due to the pressure.
he sells more shirts,
Arguably true but then again he does represent the United States and even then it's still debateable whether Dempsey sells the most shirts.
he puts his body on the line every game, he never gives up, he makes things happen, he is lucky, he is skillful, he scores more goals than almost any other player of his type in the division, he is that rarest of things - a successful American who is also likeable, he is determined to succeed but humble enough to never take his place for granted, he wants to improve, he is rarely injured, his stats suggest he does more of most things than anyone else, he is resolutely Fulham and has never let paper talk distract him.
Some fair and some no so true facts about him, his work ethic and willingness to improve himself has never been in doubt and he is evidently improving year in yer out but the rest is debatable.
He is the sort of player I am happy for my kids to idolise and he is partly what I imagine the players of old to have been like. He is not flashy or celebrity obsessed and seems to be a devoted family man.
I admire this about him too but would like to think my children would appreciate those skills you have mentioned but idolise other players. that though is a taste difference and pretty void.
Whats more, he will never leave Fulham.
He's suggested he wants to leave Fulham this season or more aptly that he would like to play Champions League football and can't see that happening at Fulham.
He is good enough to be amongst the best at a club like Fulham but not quite good enough to move to a top 5 club. His popularity will oustrip that of McBride and he will go down as one of the foremost Fulham players of the modern era. (And this thread will be one of the longest running!! :005:)
Whats not to like?
Quote from: White Noise on February 24, 2011, 05:05:21 PM
Who do you think the fans love best? Dempsey. Without any doubt.
He makes more column inches than any other player, he sells more shirts, he puts his body on the line every game, he never gives up, he makes things happen, he is lucky, he is skillful, he scores more goals than almost any other player of his type in the division, he is that rarest of things - a successful American who is also likeable, he is determined to succeed but humble enough to never take his place for granted, he wants to improve, he is rarely injured, his stats suggest he does more of most things than anyone else, he is resolutely Fulham and has never let paper talk distract him.
He is the sort of player I am happy for my kids to idolise and he is partly what I imagine the players of old to have been like. He is not flashy or celebrity obsessed and seems to be a devoted family man.
Whats more, he will never leave Fulham. He is good enough to be amongst the best at a club like Fulham but not quite good enough to move to a top 5 club. His popularity will oustrip that of McBride and he will go down as one of the foremost Fulham players of the modern era. (And this thread will be one of the longest running!! :005:)
Whats not to like?
And he's got the best song, think you're forgetting a major thing there.
Everything has been well put forward here. But I am bemused that Clint Falling down is a criticism of him. We have one player who has mastered the art of winning fouls and penalties and yet we have a go at him. While other teams seem to use it as part of their training structure.
For my part I think Dempsey is in the top three most important players we have.
It doesn't matter how well Dempsey does, Tktd has never rated him and never will. There is no use trying to convince him otherwise as the actual evidence matters not. I remember him/her from the offal and as I recall the criticisms were usually petty and/or baseless.
Tktd... I was often wound up rather easy but I have gotten better over the years on here... I wont bother calling your names etc because we are all entitled to opinions...HOWEVER... I will not let you get away with saying that Clint was quoted as saying he could not earn CL football here... That was never ever in the real and direct quote... Clint said he would love to play CL football someday and that was it...did you ever think that perhaps he might see Fulham as good enough to do that in the coming years?
Don't put false words into a through and through Fulham man's mouth just to try and refuediate something that WN said....
Quote from: Lighthouse on February 24, 2011, 05:43:19 PM
Everything has been well put forward here. But I am bemused that Clint Falling down is a criticism of him. We have one player who has mastered the art of winning fouls and penalties and yet we have a go at him. While other teams seem to use it as part of their training structure.
For my part I think Dempsey is in the top three most important players we have.
:clap_hands:
Quote from: mccscratch on February 24, 2011, 03:48:52 PM
Instead of refuting your obnoxious claims, just enjoy this video in which you will see why Dempsey shoots from distance (in the first 30 secs), how he does in fact have a goal poachers instinct, how he is the best header of the ball we have on this team (including Brede who is 5 inches+ taller) and the ability to score pure determination goals (checkout the Blackburn goal).... and these are not even from this season or much of last...no Juve or Stoke goals to glam it up...
Clint Dempsey Fulham Star (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7zqzs_Gy9s#)
1 went in from outside the box - doesn't prove he should shoot from distance
Heading - great
The rest just reinforce my point of him being a poacher that takes all the credit for other people's hard work.
"................that takes all the credit for other people's hard work."
Why do you continue to beclown yourself with asinine statements like this?
Quote from: Sheepskin Junior on February 24, 2011, 07:50:30 PM
1 went in from outside the box - doesn't prove he should shoot from distance
Heading - great
The rest just reinforce my point of him being a poacher that takes all the credit for other people's hard work.
I will agree with you that Clint has the habit of being a goal poacher but it stems not only from others hard work but to Clint's hard work off the ball. One of Clint's better attributes is his ability to read the game and make an incisive run into the box to make himself available. Clint may not be the fastest or most athletically gifted player in the Prem but it is amazing how often he manages to outwork defenders to get into those goal poaching positions.
What you see as Clint taking credit for other peoples hard work I see as Clint being the complimentary player to finish off the other players hard work. After all if someone is not there to finish off a cross then all the other hard work has gone to waste.
Quote from: ToodlesMcToot on February 24, 2011, 02:54:34 PM
I just wanted to add, in reply to the criticism that Demps takes the odd 30-35 yard shot - someone has to do that from time to time. If it's never done, then defenses don't have to respect that portion of the field and that makes every thing inside that 30-35 yards much tougher to break down. Shooting from there draws defending teams out and creates more space to operate closer to goal.
Obviously the shot isn't going to come off often. Its the fact that he and others have demonstrated the ability to score from out there from time to time combined with the value of that potential goal given that Fulham are usually so good defensively that forces teams to defend it.
Spot on, this. I think keeping possession is a valuable thing, but if you don't just have a blummin' shot on goal every once in a while, the defence learns that it can sit back and soak up the pressure. I think we sometimes do just play pass ball outside the box too much sometimes, and it takes a pop shot from Demps to force the defense out sometimes.
Quote from: LordNelson on February 24, 2011, 08:06:54 PM
"................that takes all the credit for other people's hard work."
Why do you continue to beclown yourself with asinine statements like this?
Ha ha, yes, exactly.
When Bobby was banging them in, he was a star.
When Dempsey does (and he's outscoring Bobby) he's "taking credit for other people's work". When does a striker
not do this?
For the record:09 10 top league scorer Zamora,
810 11 top league scorer Dempsey
909 10 total goals top scorer (sans Europa) Zamora
1110 11 total goals top scorer Dempsey
10 (with 11 games still to play, he's only two goals from beating Zamora's haul last season)
big fish in a small pond,I like the guy a lot but lets be honest, if you put him in the Arsenal team he wouldn't get a touch of the ball-harsh but true.
But he still is massively important to us and what he does he does well but he has his faults, but be grateful for them,because if he didn't he wouldn't be at Fulham.......................
He's not the best, nor even great, however, Dempsey has performed and supported Fulham with the whole of his heart. And to this, he's slagged off. Certainly, he has his faults, as do all players, but to knock Dempsey this season, when his goals have kept Fulham afloat, rings of bias and preconceived prejudice. Irrefutable. Get over yourselves and maintain a hope in your heart that he can be sold for a tidy profit this summer. Jeebus.
must be a windup, this.
The best bit was the "poaching to get on the end of others' hard work". Ruud van Nistelrooy was the worst for this, he'd lazily score 30-40 a season by doing nothing but poaching on the end of others' good work. Terrible he was. That Lineker was much the same, rubbish he was. These lazy players with their overrated instincts and ability to find space and anticipate events... tsk.
I think the polarisation aspect is overstated too: at the ground you see hundreds of Dempsey shirts. People doubted him a couple of years ago, but I think he's proved himself now. He's a good Fulham player and just the sort of character you can imagine Hughes likes having in the team. I do think he's been off colour since going back to the left flank, but this is part of the game, and he's already done his bit for us this season.
Dempsey has hit 37 shots on target, and only Didier Drogba (39) has hit more shots on target in the PL this season than him, now all you Dempsey haters will say that he should have hit the back of the net more then. But surely this shows that he gives us an attacking edge that none of our other attacking players have. I can't believe Dempsey is hated, but yet a striker with a goals to game ratio of 1 in 8 in the league, Johnson; gets away so lightly, yes he may set up goals but the amount of one on ones he has missed has cost us many more points than Dempsey has.
Quote from: Luke on February 25, 2011, 10:26:51 AM
Dempsey has hit 37 shots on target, and only Didier Drogba (39) has hit more shots on target in the PL this season than him, now all you Dempsey haters will say that he should have hit the back of the net more then. But surely this shows that he gives us an attacking edge that none of our other attacking players have. I can't believe Dempsey is hated, but yet a striker with a goals to game ratio of 1 in 8 in the league, Johnson; gets away so lightly, yes he may set up goals but the amount of one on ones he has missed has cost us many more points than Dempsey has.
I have not read anywhere that Dempsey is hated?? just that some people don't rate him as high as others, be interesting to see the how much of Dempsey's support is from " over the pond" where he can do no wrong :hook:
Dempseys a decent player, but he is some overrated by some of us, and himself, its laughable. Most would have us believe hes champions league quality- no a chance.
He has very little of no pace, he goes down far to easily and doesn't seem to work hard at closing down, therefore giving the opposing teams defenders years on the ball.
Yes he has scored some very, very important goals for us. But lets not forget, the goal he scored against Juve was a cross!
I think that this season Clints lost the thing that made him so popular amongest the fans- hard work. He doesn't seem to run around the pitch with the same determination which he once did, which is disappointed, although his goal tally has increased, it does annoy me how he gets some much credit when players such as Hangeland, Hughes, Murphy and Schwarzer, who are just as valuable to the team, seem to get so little credit.
Would I be sad to seem Dempsey go? Yes. Is he irreplacable? No.
Sorry but whilst I agree with most of your comments, the Juv goal was meant, he looked up and went for that, seeing the GK off his line, credit where credit is due.
I cant believe that so many of you have bitten on this pointless topic. Dempsey has earned his stripes at FFC full stop. The rest is just bs.
Quoteit does annoy me how he gets some much credit when players such as Hangeland, Hughes, Murphy and Schwarzer, who are just as valuable to the team, seem to get so little credit.
They get tonnes of credit both on here, by other fans and in the press. The possible exception is Hughes, who doesn't get mentioned much in the press, but that it is more than made up for with praise on here (Mr Aaron "he's so underated he's actually overrated" Hughes).
QuoteDempseys a decent player, but he is some overrated by some of us, and himself, its laughable. Most would have us believe hes Champions League quality- no a chance.
(I've helpfully underlined the Champions League players whom he's matched or beaten for goal scoring this season)
He's scored as many goals as: Gyan,
Nasri,
Van Persie,
Torres,
Malouda, Cahill,
Nani.
He's outscored:
Bale,
Chamakh,
Hernandez,
Kalou,
Walcott,
Anelka,
Arshavin,.
QuoteYes he has scored some very, very important goals for us.
Not forgetting the nine league goals he's scored for us (in the 17th lowest scorers in the league) that have kept us up this season.
QuoteWould I be sad to seem Dempsey go? Yes. Is he irreplacable? No.
Platitude, check. Of course he isn't irreplacable. When you're a small budget midtable club none of your players will irreplacable, or you would have flogged 'em to someone else ages ago.
Quote from: epsomraver on February 25, 2011, 10:30:35 AM
I have not read anywhere that Dempsey is hated?? just that some people don't rate him as high as others, be interesting to see the how much of Dempsey's support is from " over the pond" where he can do no wrong :hook:
Don't even go there... this board has a policy of NOT splitting European and US supporters apart, unlike maybe some other places try, even with the hook icon.
For the record, I am one of those supporters from 'over the pond' but I lived the first 40 years in the UK, and I support Dempsey to the hilt, as I support our other players.
Quote from: Rambling_Syd_Rumpo on February 25, 2011, 12:52:51 AM
big fish in a small pond,I like the guy a lot but lets be honest, if you put him in the Arsenal team he wouldn't get a touch of the ball-harsh but true.
But he still is massively important to us and what he does he does well but he has his faults, but be grateful for them,because if he didn't he wouldn't be at Fulham.......................
.. can you name any other midfield/forward at Fulham (except Dembele) that is different?
I haven't seen people mugging Sparky for AJ, Duff, Sidwell, Murphy, Gera, Davies, Gudjohnsen or Greening either, especially the likes of Arsenal, or any other top 10 Prem team.
Quote from: FulhamFan2 on February 25, 2011, 12:18:22 PM
Dempseys a decent player, but he is some overrated by some of us, and himself, its laughable.
Would 17th or 18th position be "laughable"?
Quote from: Blingo on February 25, 2011, 12:33:17 PM
I cant believe that so many of you have bitten on this pointless topic. Dempsey has earned his stripes at FFC full stop. The rest is just bs.
+1 :54: :54: :54: :54:
Cheers to you Blingo!!! :beer: :beer: :beer:
Unnecessary wind up before a big match...serves no purpose whatsoever.......
http://cottagers.blogspot.com/2011/02/for-posterity.html (http://cottagers.blogspot.com/2011/02/for-posterity.html)
Quote from: Tktd on February 24, 2011, 11:36:45 AM
I don't really rate Dempsey...
Don't get me wrong he's improved a lot but he's too flat footed and I can't help but think that the goals he's scored for the time he's been on the pitch if had there been someone else on we would've still got them or perhaps more from other players in the team.
TBH I've never really rated him as a player and believe that whatever work he does on the training pitch must be the constant reason he finds himself initially on the bench and the works his way onto being a starter - does that mean it's not just me?
Yes I know he's a big game player in many respects but he's always done best when he's come on (for the most part) as a substitute.
His first touch is poor, he's not the fastest player in the world, he normally ends up slowing the game down and If i'm being honest I rarely see him successfully track back.
I can see how he gets first team football - anyone who works as hard as I assume he works can find that an endearing quality and he does score but I think he's not good enough to start, especially when you find more explosive players who can give us a more dimensional attack sitting on the bench.
I think Dembele is a richer mans Dempsey if i'm being honest and don't think / would be suprised if they can both play on the same pitch... both obviously have skill but I'd put dembele technically ahead of Dempsey and wuld also put him down as thefaster of the two.
I know fans are going to disagree with m here but I just don't see it and often fnd myself annoyed at games (and suprisingly so surrounded by seemingly lik minded fans) regarding his ability to frustrate whilst playing. You'll rarely see him successfully chase down a ball he's lost and you'll rarely see him keep the ball close to his feet constantly whilst dribbling - we hav player who can bring more to the fore.
Anyway - now to the dogs....
For real, :tom:!
Quote from: White Noise on February 25, 2011, 07:46:57 PM
http://cottagers.blogspot.com/2011/02/for-posterity.html (http://cottagers.blogspot.com/2011/02/for-posterity.html)
So sublime ........you RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!! :54: :54: :54:
Quote from: White Noise on February 25, 2011, 07:46:57 PM
http://cottagers.blogspot.com/2011/02/for-posterity.html (http://cottagers.blogspot.com/2011/02/for-posterity.html)
My kingdom for a DVD of that home and away. Anyone know where I can get that? I've seen highlight DVDs available, but not the entire games.
Quote from: Logicalman on February 25, 2011, 12:55:22 PM
Quote from: Rambling_Syd_Rumpo on February 25, 2011, 12:52:51 AM
big fish in a small pond,I like the guy a lot but lets be honest, if you put him in the Arsenal team he wouldn't get a touch of the ball-harsh but true.
But he still is massively important to us and what he does he does well but he has his faults, but be grateful for them,because if he didn't he wouldn't be at Fulham.......................
.. can you name any other midfield/forward at Fulham (except Dembele) that is different?
I haven't seen people mugging Sparky for AJ, Duff, Sidwell, Murphy, Gera, Davies, Gudjohnsen or Greening either, especially the likes of Arsenal, or any other top 10 Prem team.
no, and the reason for that is if these players where as good as people think they are, they would be gone to the top 6/ champions league teams,they are here because they are ok,they can do a job at the level we play at-this is not to say they aren't GOOD FOR US us,because they are, but the facts are the facts and nothing anyone can say will change that-together we are a team though,thats our strength!
I think he thinks he is a better player than he actually is.
At Bolton he came on and looked like he cared..at Blackpool he came on and looked like he couldn't care less.
Inconsistent since then despite his goals.
I'd bite your hand off off for anything more than 5 million.
We are the whites
Demps always gives his all in every game! He is by far the best player we have this season. End of :hook:
Quote from: bigalffc on February 25, 2011, 10:34:56 PM
Demps always gives his all in every game! He is by far the best player we have this season. End of :hook:
Hughes,Baird,Hangerland and Dembele may disagree with you,and so will I :001:
Quote from: Rambling_Syd_Rumpo on February 25, 2011, 10:40:28 PM
Quote from: bigalffc on February 25, 2011, 10:34:56 PM
Demps always gives his all in every game! He is by far the best player we have this season. End of :hook:
Hughes,Baird,Hangerland and Dembele may disagree with you,and so will I :001:
Your privelege of course, I wonder though if Hughes,Baird,Hangerland and Dembele would disagree.
Clint is terrible. Any schmuck could win the Bronze Ball at a major international tourney. Score World Cup goals against Ghana and England, international goals against Switzerland, Spain, Brazil, Egypt, Ghana and 15 other victims.
He's responsible for many of the magical moments for the club since he got here. Liverpool. The Chelsea brace. Juventus. He's 2 goals from being Fulham's all time top Prem scorer, mostly from midfield. Every time a new manager comes in they bring in new players, and he always works his way back to the first XI. This guy should be a freakin legend here.
Most of the criticism always seems to be some iteration of: "Dempsey sucks because he's not Carlos Tevez." (or other substitute world class striker)
your not reading the posts-just because we think the world of him(and we really do) that doesn't make you a world class player,if he was as good as some people on here think he would be playing in the champions league or at the very least a top six team in one of the major leagues-this is a measure of a players standing in the world game.
just because we love a player for what he does for us, that does not make him world class,and if we had a world class player at Fulham he wouldn't be here for long :58: :58:
Quote from: bigalffc on February 25, 2011, 10:34:56 PM
Demps always gives his all in every game! He is by far the best player we have this season. End of :hook:
A disabled player may give his all every game - it's admirable - doesn't mean though that it's any good!
Quote from: PaulUMD on February 25, 2011, 11:07:57 PM
Clint is terrible. Any schmuck could win the Bronze Ball at a major international tourney. Score World Cup goals against Ghana and England, international goals against Switzerland, Spain, Brazil, Egypt, Ghana and 15 other victims.
He's responsible for many of the magical moments for the club since he got here. Liverpool. The Chelsea brace. Juventus. He's 2 goals from being Fulham's all time top Prem scorer, mostly from midfield. Every time a new manager comes in they bring in new players, and he always works his way back to the first XI. This guy should be a freakin legend here.
Most of the criticism always seems to be some iteration of: "Dempsey sucks because he's not Carlos Tevez." (or other substitute world class striker)
"Clint is terrible" - you said it yourself. Enough said. Bronze is also known as third place (Not first, or second). Most international "tourney"'s as you call them don't revolve around 4/5 teams. South Africa are a bloody good team! :s. That goal against england was magical. That's three moments you've mentioned. He's been here four out of the ten years we've been in the premiership - has anyone been here longer!? Bear in mind that we've been aiming to improve and have had )( amount of managers and therefre have had high turnover. He played striker for most of the time we had Sanchz and has played that role under Hodgson and Hughes already. - if you have that many strkers out then who else are you ging to play up front?! A defender!? Guy should definately no be a legend - we've only ever had one. Dempsey's got a long way to go before he reaches that level.
Quote from: Travers Barney on February 25, 2011, 10:31:47 PM
I think he thinks he is a better player than he actually is.
At Bolton he came on and looked like he cared..at Blackpool he came on and looked like he couldn't care less.
Inconsistent since then despite his goals.
I'd bite your hand off off for anything more than 5 million.
We are the whites
Just needed to be quoted.
Quote from: Rambling_Syd_Rumpo on February 25, 2011, 11:17:23 PM
your not reading the posts-just because we think the world of him(and we really do) that doesn't make you a world class player,if he was as good as some people on here think he would be playing in the champions league or at the very least a top six team in one of the major leagues-this is a measure of a players standing in the world game.
just because we love a player for what he does for us, that does not make him world class,and if we had a world class player at Fulham he wouldn't be here for long :58: :58:
Look at Smalling! It's no like he hasn't been given every opportunity to shine... in fact considering everything you could argue his reputation isn't actually that good in the game, after all he's scored X amout of times and still hasn't even been close to a move away... Even Hodgson chose Konchesky over Dempsey.
Quote from: Blingo on February 25, 2011, 12:33:17 PM
I cant believe that so many of you have bitten on this pointless topic. Dempsey has earned his stripes at FFC full stop. The rest is just bs.
It doesn't exactly take much to earn your stripes at Fulham if we're being honest does it - Pantsil ran around the pitch a lot and Bullard and Volzy were decent guys...
Quote from: richie17 on February 25, 2011, 09:16:37 AM
must be a windup, this.
The best bit was the "poaching to get on the end of others' hard work". Ruud van Nistelrooy was the worst for this, he'd lazily score 30-40 a season by doing nothing but poaching on the end of others' good work. Terrible he was. That Lineker was much the same, rubbish he was. These lazy players with their overrated instincts and ability to find space and anticipate events... tsk.
I think the polarisation aspect is overstated too: at the ground you see hundreds of Dempsey shirts. People doubted him a couple of years ago, but I think he's proved himself now. He's a good Fulham player and just the sort of character you can imagine Hughes likes having in the team. I do think he's been off colour since going back to the left flank, but this is part of the game, and he's already done his bit for us this season.
Yeah because I see Dempsey scoring over 20, let alone 30/40 a season... get real.. stop comparing Dempsey to Van Nistelrooy, you can't! There are no similarities. I don't know about you but I hardly see a dempsey shirt in the riverside stand and the hammersmith for that matter, or now we're on a roll the putney - are you based in the haynes stand?...
Tktd, put a stop to the tone of your posts. I don't fancy your attitude towards other posters. Be nice or be gone. This is your only warning. It's fine to post your opinions but you HAVE to do it respectfully. Ok?
Quote from: Tktd on February 26, 2011, 01:54:46 AM
Quote from: bigalffc on February 25, 2011, 10:34:56 PM
Demps always gives his all in every game! He is by far the best player we have this season. End of :hook:
A disabled player may give his all every game - it's admirable - doesn't mean though that it's any good!
Will you find fault with me if I think you're an ass? Certainly. Your diatribe re Dempsey isn't viable this campaign. Sure, you think he sucks, and you're entitled to your opinion, God bless you, but without him, Fulham's in the drop.
Look, I think people have got carried away with this whole topic...
What I'm trying to say is Dempsey in my opinion is overrated. What I'm trying to say is I think that he detracts from Fulhams play - he slows things down when we're on the ball amongst other things. I also think that we could've scored more goals having a confident gera or davies on the pitch due to their ability to score match winning goals or set them up too.
I RATE DEMPSEY - he has a value to the Fulham squad but he's not world class, he's average Fulham class... he hasn't been sent off or even been bid for to go to another club, he scores important goals but has a lot of room for improvement. He'd be better off as a super sub (if that).
I find it extremely annoying people are calling him a legend - he's nowhere near a Johnny Haynes type player. I just wish people would use their brain instead of their brawn as it becomes frustrating when people blindly follow someone based on goals scored in comparison to others....
Yes he's earned his Fulham stripes and has bled for the cause but it doesn't make him special... I could go on for aaaggges.
P.s - sorry ridge rider - it was never meant to offend but more to instigate inellecutal debate. I got the impression this board could cope with what I deem mere conversation and didn't think that it would genuinely upset people. My apoligies.
Yawn! I'm bored. Guess I'll be a turd and stir up the yanks. :020:
Accepted....thanks. I have zero issues with the topic but I think you knew it would cause a stir, however that is not a reason not to post it though.
I love the debate on this board, this place is great at it, heck we have even recently broken are own rules and allowed political topic thread or two. Everyone was so well behaved it didn't degenerate. Debate should be allowed to continue unabated as much as possible however we need to stay reasoned and respectful, though a little emotion is certainly ok and expected.
All I am asking is just mind your tone, that goes for everyone, when you defend your position. The only reason I wrote this on the thread and not PM was because i want everybody to read it, not just highlight you. Fair enough?
Please continue and thanks for taking what I have written into consideration.
Quote from: Tktd on February 26, 2011, 02:20:51 AM
Look, I think people have got carried away with this whole topic...
What I'm trying to say is Dempsey in my opinion is overrated. What I'm trying to say is I think that he detracts from Fulhams play - he slows things down when we're on the ball amongst other things. I also think that we could've scored more goals having a confident gera or davies on the pitch due to their ability to score match winning goals or set them up too.
I RATE DEMPSEY - he has a value to the Fulham squad but he's not world class, he's average Fulham class... he hasn't been sent off or even been bid for to go to another club, he scores important goals but has a lot of room for improvement. He'd be better off as a super sub (if that).
I find it extremely annoying people are calling him a legend - he's nowhere near a Johnny Haynes type player. I just wish people would use their brain instead of their brawn as it becomes frustrating when people blindly follow someone based on goals scored in comparison to others....
Yes he's earned his Fulham stripes and has bled for the cause but it doesn't make him special... I could go on for aaaggges.
P.s - sorry ridge rider - it was never meant to offend but more to instigate inellecutal debate. I got the impression this board could cope with what I deem mere conversation and didn't think that it would genuinely upset people. My apoligies.
People do over react over opinions. I bet iF this thread was about Duff it would be locked straight away. Well people always blame the RIGHT WING MORE THAN THE LEFT.
Good old football satire.
Put the stick down Ridge - PUT IT DOWN.
Quote from: Lighthouse on February 26, 2011, 02:44:33 AM
People do over react over opinions. I bet iF this thread was about Duff it would be locked straight away. Well people always blame the RIGHT WING MORE THAN THE LEFT.
Good old football satire.
Put the stick down Ridge - PUT IT DOWN.
Okey doke Beamer. :dft012:
Quote from: bigalffc on February 25, 2011, 10:34:56 PM
Demps always gives his all in every game! He is by far the best player we have this season. End of :hook:
+1
Quote from: PaulUMD on February 25, 2011, 11:07:57 PM
Clint is terrible. Any schmuck could win the Bronze Ball at a major international tourney. Score World Cup goals against Ghana and England, international goals against Switzerland, Spain, Brazil, Egypt, Ghana and 15 other victims.
He's responsible for many of the magical moments for the club since he got here. Liverpool. The Chelsea brace. Juventus. He's 2 goals from being Fulham's all time top Prem scorer, mostly from midfield. Every time a new manager comes in they bring in new players, and he always works his way back to the first XI. This guy should be a freakin legend here.
Most of the criticism always seems to be some iteration of: "Dempsey sucks because he's not Carlos Tevez." (or other substitute world class striker)
+1, agree with every word :045:
Quote from: Tktd on February 26, 2011, 02:00:14 AM
Quote from: PaulUMD on February 25, 2011, 11:07:57 PM
Clint is terrible. Any schmuck could win the Bronze Ball at a major international tourney. Score World Cup goals against Ghana and England, international goals against Switzerland, Spain, Brazil, Egypt, Ghana and 15 other victims.
He's responsible for many of the magical moments for the club since he got here. Liverpool. The Chelsea brace. Juventus. He's 2 goals from being Fulham's all time top Prem scorer, mostly from midfield. Every time a new manager comes in they bring in new players, and he always works his way back to the first XI. This guy should be a freakin legend here.
Most of the criticism always seems to be some iteration of: "Dempsey sucks because he's not Carlos Tevez." (or other substitute world class striker)
"Clint is terrible" - you said it yourself. Enough said. Bronze is also known as third place (Not first, or second). Most international "tourney"'s as you call them don't revolve around 4/5 teams. South Africa are a bloody good team! :s. That goal against england was magical. That's three moments you've mentioned. He's been here four out of the ten years we've been in the premiership - has anyone been here longer!? Bear in mind that we've been aiming to improve and have had )( amount of managers and therefre have had high turnover. He played striker for most of the time we had Sanchz and has played that role under Hodgson and Hughes already. - if you have that many strkers out then who else are you ging to play up front?! A defender!? Guy should definately no be a legend - we've only ever had one. Dempsey's got a long way to go before he reaches that level.
Mr. Tktd, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Quote from: Tktd on February 26, 2011, 02:20:51 AM
I RATE DEMPSEY
Quote from: Tktd on February 24, 2011, 11:36:45 AM
I don't really rate Dempsey...
:doh:
Quote from: Tktd on February 24, 2011, 11:36:45 AM
he does score but I think he's not good enough to start
Right.
QuoteI also think that we could've scored more goals having a confident gera or davies on the pitch due to their ability to score match winning goals or set them up too.
Right - just saying things doesn't make them true. Gera has had 8 league appearances this season and has scored.....1 goal (when we were already 4 goals down, so not worth a sausage). Last season he scored only 2 league goals (to Dempsey's 7). Davies didn't score any. This season he's scored two good goals - one against Manchester United (an equalizer) and the opener in the thrashing of West Brom.
Dempsey has earnt us 4 draws (4 pts) through equalizers or goals in 1-1s and 2 wins (6 pts) in games where he is the only scorer. He has of course scored in other winning games (like the thrashing of WBA).
So to paraphrase Stewart Lee (and with all due respect):
You can prove anything with facts! I prefer to rely on instinct and blind prejudice.
Quote from: ImperialWhite on February 26, 2011, 09:00:15 AM
Quote from: Tktd on February 26, 2011, 02:20:51 AM
I RATE DEMPSEY
Quote from: Tktd on February 24, 2011, 11:36:45 AM
I don't really rate Dempsey...
:doh:
Quote from: Tktd on February 24, 2011, 11:36:45 AM
he does score but I think he's not good enough to start
Right.
QuoteI also think that we could've scored more goals having a confident gera or davies on the pitch due to their ability to score match winning goals or set them up too.
Right - just saying things doesn't make them true. Gera has had 8 league appearances this season and has scored.....1 goal (when we were already 4 goals down, so not worth a sausage). Last season he scored only 2 league goals (to Dempsey's 7). Davies didn't score any. This season he's scored two good goals - one against Manchester United (an equalizer) and the opener in the thrashing of West Brom.
Dempsey has earnt us 4 draws (4 pts) through equalizers or goals in 1-1s and 2 wins (6 pts) in games where he is the only scorer. He has of course scored in other winning games (like the thrashing of WBA).
So to paraphrase Stewart Lee (and with all due respect):
You can prove anything with facts! I prefer to rely on instinct and blind prejudice.
might as well lock the thread now, this argument is over.
You've thought that for 4 years. You don't need to send us constant updates that you still don't like him. Don't post about it and we'll assume you still feel that way because you haven't changed. Post on it again if you ever do like him. Also, Davies has never come close to 10 goals a season even when player of the year.
