Hi Everyone,
I posted this entry below this morning. Let me know your thoughts.
After waking up this morning I was feeling pretty good about the Fulham victory last night. My mood changed when I read the comments by Shakhtar Donetsk manager Mircea Lucescu. In the article from the official Fulhamfc.com website entitled " From the other Side" Lucescu had some interesting comments about the game. In my opinion these comments come off as very arrogant and disrespectful to Roy Hogdson's Fulham team.
According to the Fulhamfc.com article Mircea Lucescu stated" It is a good thing we've got a second leg so we'll still have a chance," the Shakhtar manager explained." We've lost a game that we shouldn't have lost. A lack of practice coming into the game saw us concede the first goal. After that we had the game under control." This statement alone is complete sour grapes from the manager of an opposing team. His team lost the game and Fulham won it period. This manager should be more gracious in defeat and give more credit to Fulham and Roy Hogdson.
The Shakhtar manager then seemed to complain about the referees I believe. According to Fulhamfc.com article Mircea Lucescu stated " We hope the referees in Donetsk will facilitate a beautiful game and not what happened today, I'm not judging the referee - he had his own method of judgement which facilitated more physical football." This manager has the right to his opinion. I personally don't think this game was anymore physical than I see every week. If they think Bobby Zamora and his teammates are too physical than they should prepare better for the second leg. I have a feeling they are going to see the same style of play from Fulham.
To be fair Lucescu did say nice things about Fulham's defense and how well organized the team was last night. He did congratulate Fulham on its victory, but what he said right after that sounded like a "backhanded compliment to me. According to the Fulhamfc.com article Mircea Lucescu then stated" Fulham definitely had some luck and managed to take advantage of their chances but that doesn't mean that I don't appreciate Fulham's defensive strength." I have listened to many press conferences of Roy Hogdson. I have heard him complain about the officiating. However, I can't remember him giving backhanded compliments to the opposition. He usually is pretty complimentary to the other side in defeat.
This goes back to the title of my entry. I hate it when a team says "We shouldn't have lost the game. Shakhtar did lose this match. I don't care that they play beautiful football. They do play a great style of football. It didn't matter last night. The better team won last night period. Take your defeat and see if you can beat Roy Hogdson's team in the Ukraine. I tell you one thing Shakhtar better go back to prcatice and learn how to be more physical. If they don't, Fulham will move on in the Europa League. Just quit your "sour grapes and excuse making". Just come to play next Thursday and we will see who is the better club.
http://fulhampatsfan.blogspot.com/ (http://fulhampatsfan.blogspot.com/)
one thing to bear in mind is that English isn't his first language, or this may have been the words of an interpreter.
however, he may just have been being disrespectful.
Hi Fulham Pats,
Thanks for sharing that.
I wouldn't read to much into his comments mate. I don't think he was disrespecting us so
much as he was disappointed by his
own teams performance.
They did play us off the pitch and our first goal should have been saved really.
You never know, this might fire up our boys for next week.
COYW!
No big deal. Not long ago, Scotland beat france in Glasgow and the french were crowing that they had to come to paris. Well they did, and won 1-0.
Fulham might just pull it off.
WhiteJC,
You are correct that English is not his first language. Could a message had been lost in translation? It is possible, however if you go on Shakhtar's website comments like this were on there site prior to the game. I wrote a blog entry on Tuesday about comments from the press office of Shakhtar Donetsk. "UEFA Cup holders very confident coming to Craven Cottage to play Fulham. I have copied part of my post below.
The article from the Press Office of FC Shakhtar on the official website also has some interesting thoughts on Fulham. According to the Press office of FC Shakhtar states " By and large the Shakhtar players agreed that our future rival hasn't amazed us by anything special. To play against them is possible,very possible. Of course, we shouldn't play relaxed and should concetrate fully." The article by the Press office of FC Shakhtar continues to go on and has some praise for Bobby Zamora and Fulham's defenders. Finally, According to the Press office of FC Shakhtar also has praise for the fans.
Also, on Shakhtar.com there is an article regarding comments from the goalie Andriy Pyatov. This is a direct quote on Shakhtar.com from Andriy Pyatov. "I think the scoreline is not fair. But it is football and such things are possible. We do not have to despair, as there is a return leg still left.Let us pin hope on that."
WhiteJC, The managers comments are pretty consistent with what is posted above. Are they confident or arrogant? Or is a message being lost in translation. My opinion is they just feel bad they lost and they are making excuses.
with all the sh1t that flows out of Fergusons and Wengers mouths in defeat, even draws I wouldn't worry about this
Quote from: leonffc on February 19, 2010, 09:03:35 PM
with all the sh1t that flows out of Fergusons and Wengers mouths in defeat, even draws I wouldn't worry about this
Listen you are probably right. It just was a big victory for the team. You would hope the other team would be cool in defeat.
No disrespect, but I think the sour grapes are all in your perception, Mr. PatsFan.
1. I thought they played well enough to beat us quite easily. If I were their manager, I'd think that the better team lost also.
2. The referee was EXTREMELY lenient on the physical stuff in comparison to what we've experienced with other Euro matches. When Etuhu [barely] won the ball with a tackle from behind, the surprise from Ag and myself was NOT that a foul was called, but that there was no card. I can think of two straight reds in previous Europa League matches that were tamer than that. So, I don't think that was out of line. Further, I think he was doing what all smart managers do -- that is, calling to attention the physical play of an English side [although Ag thought we should have been more physical], so as to keep that foremost in the mind of the next official.
overall, I thought the guy was fair in his assessment. There was one problem with his review though: He called us well-organized and difficult to break down. I think UEFA should get him up on charges of plaigerism, since Roy says that about every game.
Welcome to the board Fulham Pats Fan - good to see you on here.
Really enjoying your blog and hope to see you posting plenty on here. :)
To be fair, who knows what is lost in translation. In any event, I've seen a lot worse in the disrespect department from some English managers (Iain Dowie for starters) so I wouldn't put too much into that.
But if the players get extra fired up over it, nothing better than that
HatterDon,
It is good to see you on this board as well. First, I welcome you disagreeing with me. You have made some good points.
On your first point though Shakhtar did play very well and could have won easily. But they didn't win. You tell your players you should have won the game. You tell them you outplayed Fulham. I am all for that. When you do it in the media I just don't see a reason for it. That is just my opinion.
On the second point you are right about the red cards. If you are trying to send a message to the refs for the next game I do see your point.
To be honest his comments and what I read before the game on their just rubbed me the wrong way. I guess I am just used to a Bill Belichick press conference in American Football. All he does is credit the other team and blames himself and his team. The NFL you rarely see comments like that. I know venger and Ferguson say things like this all the time. It doesn't mean I have to like it.
Thanks for your thought HatterDon.
Quote from: HatterDon on February 19, 2010, 10:09:14 PM
No disrespect, but I think the sour grapes are all in your perception, Mr. PatsFan.
1. I thought they played well enough to beat us quite easily. If I were their manager, I'd think that the better team lost also.
2. The referee was EXTREMELY lenient on the physical stuff in comparison to what we've experienced with other Euro matches. When Etuhu [barely] won the ball with a tackle from behind, the surprise from Ag and myself was NOT that a foul was called, but that there was no card. I can think of two straight reds in previous Europa League matches that were tamer than that. So, I don't think that was out of line. Further, I think he was doing what all smart managers do -- that is, calling to attention the physical play of an English side [although Ag thought we should have been more physical], so as to keep that foremost in the mind of the next official.
overall, I thought the guy was fair in his assessment. There was one problem with his review though: He called us well-organized and difficult to break down. I think UEFA should get him up on charges of plaigerism, since Roy says that about every game.
White Noise,
Thank you for the welcome and kind words on my blog. I will be posting here often.
Quote from: White Noise on February 19, 2010, 10:20:33 PM
Welcome to the board Fulham Pats Fan - good to see you on here.
Really enjoying your blog and hope to see you posting plenty on here. :)
Two points. The first is that that's just football. You always hear comments about a team deserving points or conversely being lucky to get points from a performance. Roy does it.
The second is that the way the ref called the game was far more beneficial to Shakhtar. I thought they were the more physical side all in all. Especially with Zamora and Duff. Etuhu had some moments, but overall our two center mids were pretty soft in the middle.
Quote from: Ag on February 20, 2010, 01:11:14 AM
Two points. The first is that that's just football. You always hear comments about a team deserving points or conversely being lucky to get points from a performance. Roy does it.
The second is that the way the ref called the game was far more beneficial to Shakhtar. I thought they were the more physical side all in all. Especially with Zamora and Duff. Etuhu had some moments, but overall our two center mids were pretty soft in the middle.
Ag,
On your first point Roy has said often that he thought his team played well enough to get a point. That is very different than saying we shouldn't have lost the match. I have to be honest I don't remember Roy talking about the other team and saying we shouldn't have lost.
On your second point I ddin't get the feel they were more physical. Maybe they matched the physicality. I thought Zamora was physical.
Don't get me wrong on Shakhtar Donetsk. They are very good and Fulham will have to play very well to move on. I appreciate your feedback and opinion.
His words didn't seem anything out of the ordinary to me, few managers are as humble in their comments as our Roy. I'm not surprised they are disappointed, their keeper should have saved our first or at least deflected it out for a corner and any team with that much possession would be disappointed not to have been able to do more with it. A mixture of translation and frustration I'd say - be cool, we won, let him have a little moan and lets hope he has full blown tears and a hissy fit next Thursday as well.
Quote from: NorfolkJim on February 20, 2010, 03:38:30 AM
His words didn't seem anything out of the ordinary to me, few managers are as humble in their comments as our Roy. I'm not surprised they are disappointed, their keeper should have saved our first or at least deflected it out for a corner and any team with that much possession would be disappointed not to have been able to do more with it. A mixture of translation and frustration I'd say - be cool, we won, let him have a little moan and lets hope he has full blown tears and a hissy fit next Thursday as well.
Agreed! ;D
Where did the referee come from? Saw the match with russian commentaries, so didn't hear it.
Perhaps he's more used to physical football?
...welcome to FOF hellgell, to answer your question, all the officials for the Shakhtar match were from Belgium...
This does throw up that there are different types of football and we have found that Referees in the Europa Cup can be harsh. If you read the wonderful Picayune (probably on page 4 by now) from yesterday,it made the point that the referee was joining in with the wonderful football from Shakhtar. He seemed to be giving free kicks against Fulham that simply would not be considered fouls in the Prem. On the other hand, shirt pulling and tapping ankles and nasty,niggly fouls went unpunished because he is used to that type of football.
Until Fulham become used to the different interpretation from Referees in Europe, it is US not Shahtar who will be the victims. I agree, moaning about the size if the pitch and the referee was simply stupid and wide of the mark. He should have done a Roy and told the truth. His team dominated but made our keeper work very little and no doubt they will turn it around in the second leg.
Lighthouse,
You make a great point about the refs and how they handle it in Europe. I completely agree with you that Fulham need to adapt to how the refs call the games in Europe. It will probably favor Shakhtar and Roy needs to emphasie that on Thursday.
Quote from: Lighthouse on February 20, 2010, 10:39:21 AM
This does throw up that there are different types of football and we have found that Referees in the Europa Cup can be harsh. If you read the wonderful Picayune (probably on page 4 by now) from yesterday,it made the point that the referee was joining in with the wonderful football from Shakhtar. He seemed to be giving free kicks against Fulham that simply would not be considered fouls in the Prem. On the other hand, shirt pulling and tapping ankles and nasty,niggly fouls went unpunished because he is used to that type of football.
Until Fulham become used to the different interpretation from Referees in Europe, it is US not Shahtar who will be the victims. I agree, moaning about the size if the pitch and the referee was simply stupid and wide of the mark. He should have done a Roy and told the truth. His team dominated but made our keeper work very little and no doubt they will turn it around in the second leg.
Mr FPF,
Firstly, welcome to the MB.
I have to agree with you, on first sight, and with little else to go on, his comments were less than generous to a side that had just beaten them, though I would say that, especially in the first half (from what I saw on an 80% feed) Shakhtar should have sewn the game up and gone in at least 2-1 up, but we did hold out.
In the 2nd half we seemed to have more urgency about our game - and a little more physical to boot - and showed Shakhtar we would not be bullied, especially at the Cottage. It was significant though that for the last 15 minutes we were under sustained attack again, and a couple of time Mark pulled us through.
As for arrogance, having listened to Jose for the best part of 4 years, and Fergie for a damn sight longer, the Shakhtar coach sounds quite complimentary. As mentioned above, translation is everything, even more so when quoting from their own website, so with a massive dose of salt, I would wait until we get another 2-1 scoreline next week and see what he has to say about it then.
Dear Logicalman,
Thank you for the welcome.
What I have found interesting about this entry I wrote is the feedback I have received. As I mentioned prior I guess I am used to more humility from a team I also follow the New England Patriots. Coach Belichick would never say " this is a game we shouldn't have lost." He would blame himself and the coaching staff. He would then talk about what is needed moving forward so in the next game they can correct the problems.
I think it was HatterDon that said "sour grapes is my perspective on this." He is right. It is my opinion. Another member mentioned that not many managers are as humble as Roy. Again I see that as well. So my perspective is from 2 managers of the teams that I follow that are both humble.
I can see how other people have differing opinions on his comments than I do. That is great.
I am not changing my opinion on the Shakhtar Manager's comments. I will say I respect that there are other ways to perceive the comments and I respect that.
Quote from: Logicalman on February 20, 2010, 11:39:46 AM
Mr FPF,
Firstly, welcome to the MB.
I have to agree with you, on first sight, and with little else to go on, his comments were less than generous to a side that had just beaten them, though I would say that, especially in the first half (from what I saw on an 80% feed) Shakhtar should have sewn the game up and gone in at least 2-1 up, but we did hold out.
In the 2nd half we seemed to have more urgency about our game - and a little more physical to boot - and showed Shakhtar we would not be bullied, especially at the Cottage. It was significant though that for the last 15 minutes we were under sustained attack again, and a couple of time Mark pulled us through.
As for arrogance, having listened to Jose for the best part of 4 years, and Fergie for a damn sight longer, the Shakhtar coach sounds quite complimentary. As mentioned above, translation is everything, even more so when quoting from their own website, so with a massive dose of salt, I would wait until we get another 2-1 scoreline next week and see what he has to say about it then.
Doesn't come across too bad to me. In fairness there was a spell in the first half where they were well on top...
