Galaxy is not willing to extend.
That's a shame he was doing very well at Everton and the US team could have used him playing in the Prem up to the WC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/e/everton/8552757.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/e/everton/8552757.stm)
not a surprise, though.
This may not be the end. If there isn't at least an attempt towards a new collective bargaining agreement by the league, there's really no guarantee that the season will start. To tell the truth, I was hoping that Donovan would say: "If the new CBA isn't approved, I'm not leaving England," so as to light a fire under these idiots.
Sorry to intrude but what is this Labour Agreement dispute between the players union and the League?
In MLS the league owns all the players. When someone new comes in (ala Beckham) they negotiate and then allocate to what ever team that suites them. Beckham wanted LA, he got LA. The league sets the salary cap and the salary range and negotiates (or dictates depending on who is speaking) with the players union. Beckman's salary is higher than the combined team salaries of almost all other MLS teams. The current base salary is something like $35,000 (dollars) a year. The medium is around $100,000 as I understand. Many of the unsung young players actually have part time jobs so that they can eat & pay rent. There are development players who make even less. I suspect the wages are about League 3 in England.
I think it is clear why MLS is so poor. Wouldn't you say?
Appreciate the explanation, thanks Yankee Jim.
Jim,
I think the reason the league is so poor, in terms of talent, etc, is solely because of the way the MLS is set up, and the need of those in power to hold onto it, and run it like some gentlemens club of football, whereby they can dictate everything that goes on. Don't get me wrong, we see the horror of the opposite end of the spectrum when we look at the faults of the PL as well, and so some happy medium needs to be struck. I still cannot fully understand why they insist, as one of the only northerm hemisphere leagues do, to run their season contrary to the rest of such leagues in terms of start/finish.
It would be interesting if they looked towards the european promotion/relegation model and structured that at a State level, then Region level and then National level. So a team, Fort Wayne for example, would start off in the Indiana League. If they got promotion they would go to the Mid-West league, and then promotion into the National league (or perhaps another level between the two). At least there would be some incentive to actually strive to do well, and the chances are we would find more foriegn players, albeit towards the twilight years of their career perhaps, more willing to come over and play.
Reports today are that chelsuck are looking at him. I really, really don't want him playing for chelsuck! That would kill me, how in the world would I be able to cheer for him? I guess, I would want him to do well but for chelsuck to lose every game!
He scored an excellent goal for Everton today in what is likely to be his last home game for them unless someone in MLS change their mind
Quote from: finnster01 on March 07, 2010, 08:46:34 PM
He scored an excellent goal for Everton today in what is likely to be his last home game for them unless someone in MLS change their mind
You are right finnster it was a great goal! He had a nice asst as well.
Okay great. He played well and helped Everton win some league games but couldn't stop them failing in the fa cup and Europa league. And now he's going back to LA.
So ultimately what was the point of all this?
uh, the point?
For Everton -- have a look at their league position before his first game and their league position now.
For Donovan -- excellent coaching and an a fixed role did wonders for him and his confidence.
For Galaxy/MLS -- a fully conditioned and match-fit iteration of the league's only American superstar is to both their interest.
What's a matter, Timmyg? Did you predict he'd bomb out and is the fact that he has done the opposite bumming you out just a little?
No, it doesn't bu
Quote from: HatterDon on March 08, 2010, 05:51:52 PM
uh, the point?
For Everton -- have a look at their league position before his first game and their league position now.
For Donovan -- excellent coaching and an a fixed role did wonders for him and his confidence.
For Galaxy/MLS -- a fully conditioned and match-fit iteration of the league's only American superstar is to both their interest.
What's a matter, Timmyg? Did you predict he'd bomb out and is the fact that he has done the opposite bumming you out just a little?
No, it doesn't bum me out. I hoped he succeeded. I just don't see what all the circus and hubbub was about.
Outside of Demps and the goalies, there aren't many top dogs with a US passport plying their trade in the best league in the world.
Why do you not want that to expand? Can only help the game for the US national team and Landon himself for development.
Everton fans loves him already, in fact he may be more loved there than in LA to be honest.
Quote from: finnster01 on March 08, 2010, 06:55:08 PM
Outside of Demps and the goalies, there aren't many top dogs with a US passport plying their trade in the best league in the world.
Why do you not want that to expand? Can only help the game for the US national team and Landon himself for development.
Everton fans loves him already, in fact he may be more loved there than in LA to be honest.
I guarantee you that there's more people in Liverpool who could pick him out of a crowd than in every community in the USA combined.
To add to yankee Jim's explanation.....the old NASL (the one which pele, best, marsh, beckenbauer etc) played in had individual contracts....result...ny cosmos signed all the best players and the league rapidly became a joke. It was similar to celtic v. Falkirk every week or arsenal v burnley.
The poorer teams could no longer compete.
The league owners decided not to allow that to happen, hence the salary caps, ownership of players etc to try to keep it even.
true, but it was the San Antonio Thunder that were captained by Bobby Moore!
(http://www.nasljerseys.com/images/Thunder/Thunder%2076%20Road%20Team.jpg)
Jarv,
You are correct in that about the only team worth watching was the Cosmos......but they were entertaining.
I haven't been able to get through an MLS game in several years. Chicago is ok due to McGod and Blanco but the rest are poor. The worst thing the Galaxy ever did is invest in Beckham. Now that I've ticked off the yanks over our league and the Brits over Posh's beau, I think I'll have a beer. :dft003:
Quote from: Tom on March 07, 2010, 08:39:33 PM
Reports today are that chelsuck are looking at him. I really, really don't want him playing for chelsuck! That would kill me, how in the world would I be able to cheer for him? I guess, I would want him to do well but for chelsuck to lose every game!
That could work Tom - he could get MOM on a losing side and everyone's happy !
Wow! Thanks for the photo, Ed. That certainly takes me back.
Players have agreed on a strike. Dont think Landy will be heading back any time soon to be honest. Too bad MLS is a mickey mouse league and have acted the way they have to be honest. I hope that the players in the States see the opportunity to go overseas in the summer and take it, as playing in this league is not in their best interest anymore, financially and development wise. Why not play in Austria, Norway, Netherlands, Scotland for these guys?
I'll put my cards on the table and state straight out that I thought LD was an over-rated, fizzy-league-at-best, egotistical loud-mouth when he first came to the Toffees.
Unfortunately, my opinion about him being over-rated still stands as far as the US media is concerned, but my opinion of his abilities has changed in the last 10 weeks.
I have seen his games for Everton (I love to prove myself right when watching these games), and found my own belief in his ability very wanting. He has shown the English football fans he HAS the ability to survive in the toughest domestic league in the world, and I applaud him for that.
Now down to the discussion about his loan spell ending. I understand that loan contracts are contracts, and they have to be abided by in most circumstances, but I also believe the MLS have the need to produce and provide players for the US push at this years WC.
The best place LD could be for the next 2 months is at Everton. Not only will he get great coaching, but he will get more experience playing against the same players he will meet in SA. I believe the MLS have the power to extend this but, as per my usual thoughts of the MLS suits, they have little interest in the USMNT doing well compared to holding onto and controlling their own assets. It's unfortunate that LDs coach is Arena as well, as BA has little reason to fight for Bradley's men to be best prepared, following his dismissal after the 2006 WC.
Quote from: Logicalman on March 15, 2010, 09:46:35 AM
I'll put my cards on the table and state straight out that I thought LD was an over-rated, fizzy-league-at-best, egotistical loud-mouth when he first came to the Toffees.
Unfortunately, my opinion about him being over-rated still stands as far as the US media is concerned, but my opinion of his abilities has changed in the last 10 weeks.
I have seen his games for Everton (I love to prove myself right when watching these games), and found my own belief in his ability very wanting. He has shown the English football fans he HAS the ability to survive in the toughest domestic league in the world, and I applaud him for that.
Now down to the discussion about his loan spell ending. I understand that loan contracts are contracts, and they have to be abided by in most circumstances, but I also believe the MLS have the need to produce and provide players for the US push at this years WC.
The best place LD could be for the next 2 months is at Everton. Not only will he get great coaching, but he will get more experience playing against the same players he will meet in SA. I believe the MLS have the power to extend this but, as per my usual thoughts of the MLS suits, they have little interest in the USMNT doing well compared to holding onto and controlling their own assets. It's unfortunate that LDs coach is Arena as well, as BA has little reason to fight for Bradley's men to be best prepared, following his dismissal after the 2006 WC.
Well, I have a couple of quibbles to that heart-rending and heart-warming mea culpa, Mr. Logicalman.
1. How can Donovan be "over-rated by American fans?" Those folks rate him as the best player in MLS and the best American player currently. There's sound arguments in favor of both those positions, as well as some sound points counter to that. It's not unreasonable, however. I don't know any Americans who believe that Donovan is as good as -- or better than -- Messi or Rooney or Ronaldihno. THAT would be over-rated. The whole "Americans over-rate Donovan" thing came about as the result of the "in the know" certainty that he was a three-time failure in Germany and couldn't play in Europe. Our own Licker Bill was certain that Donovan's impact at Everton would be as a sub on two or three occasions.
2. There is no way that Arena would do anything to damage the US chances in WC2010. It certainly does nobody associated with the MLS [which wouldn't exist without the WC tournement] or with the Galaxy any good for the US to perform poorly in South Africa [which we will] and have it be the fault of the MLS [which it won't].
Quote from: HatterDon on March 15, 2010, 01:58:26 PM
Well, I have a couple of quibbles to that heart-rending and heart-warming mea culpa, Mr. Logicalman.
1. How can Donovan be "over-rated by American fans?" Those folks rate him as the best player in MLS and the best American player currently. There's sound arguments in favor of both those positions, as well as some sound points counter to that. It's not unreasonable, however. I don't know any Americans who believe that Donovan is as good as -- or better than -- Messi or Rooney or Ronaldihno. THAT would be over-rated. The whole "Americans over-rate Donovan" thing came about as the result of the "in the know" certainty that he was a three-time failure in Germany and couldn't play in Europe. Our own Licker Bill was certain that Donovan's impact at Everton would be as a sub on two or three occasions.
2. There is no way that Arena would do anything to damage the US chances in WC2010. It certainly does nobody associated with the MLS [which wouldn't exist without the WC tournement] or with the Galaxy any good for the US to perform poorly in South Africa [which we will] and have it be the fault of the MLS [which it won't].
Good point made Mr D.
The problem, as I see it, is that the over-rated tag is applied because the American fans believe he is the best MLS player, and as such, believe he is thus a world class player, with the ability to play anywhere and succeed. As I admitted, he has made much more of an impact at Everton than I would have believed, and that, perhaps, has justified some of the expectations about him, but this hype about him being so good, doesn't do a player that good. There are so many examples, in the English game, of the same thing happening to players. One's that get called up for the national team, and suddenly believe they ARE the bees knees and are worth a lot more than they truly are (even at Fulham). As you made the comparison to Messi & co, I would counter that there are a majority of MLS fans who would be unable to name a full team of current world cup players (outside of the MLS players), and as such, those that are dedicated to the sport only understand the true standing of Donovan on the world stage.
Again, for the second point, I would argue a simple fact: Where would world cup preparations be better for the USMNT players? MLS or Prem? Ignoring the contractual side of things, where would Donovan be better to play his football in the run up to the World Cup? I would argue that the English Prem would be the best place, for two main reasons: 1. The standard of play is much higher than in the MLS and 2. He will be playing against some of the players he is likely to meet in the world cup, and playing against them is vastly better than watching videos of them.
Therefore, I would conclude that he is better off playing the remaining 2 months or so, in the Prem, but the MLS and Arena are adamant that he returns this week to a league that may, or may not, actually kick off on time. At the very least they could have extended his loan until they actually KNEW there was a league to play, but no, rules are rules, contracts are contracts, and it doesn't really matter what's best for the National Team overall.
As said, that's my personal opinion, and everyone will have their own.
Oh, I fully agree that for the benefit of the USMNT it would be best for Donovan to stay in England. I'm trying real hard, however, and I can't think of any other USMNT hopeful who could start in the Prem that doesn't already have a starting gig elsewhere in Europe -- and that only takes in Michael Bradley and Steve Cherundolo. It would NOT, however, be the best thing for the MLS or for The Galaxy for Donovan to stay, and they're the ones paying his salary.
I think Donovan made a significant mistake signing that four year contract. Like most American soccer fans who are aware of the world game, I thought he limited himself needlessly in becoming the quintessential big fish in a small pond. I DO believe, however, that he's best suited to La Liga. Having said that, I don't know if there's any other Premiership manager who could have gotten as much out of Donovan as did Moyes. Over the years, the only other Premiership manager who had enough faith in American players to give them a significant role in his side right at the beginning of their tenure was Cookie Coleman. Must be a gaelic thing.
Quote from: HatterDon on March 17, 2010, 01:55:20 PM
Oh, I fully agree that for the benefit of the USMNT it would be best for Donovan to stay in England. I'm trying real hard, however, and I can't think of any other USMNT hopeful who could start in the Prem that doesn't already have a starting gig elsewhere in Europe -- and that only takes in Michael Bradley and Steve Cherundolo. It would NOT, however, be the best thing for the MLS or for The Galaxy for Donovan to stay, and they're the ones paying his salary.
I think Donovan made a significant mistake signing that four year contract. Like most American soccer fans who are aware of the world game, I thought he limited himself needlessly in becoming the quintessential big fish in a small pond. I DO believe, however, that he's best suited to La Liga. Having said that, I don't know if there's any other Premiership manager who could have gotten as much out of Donovan as did Moyes. Over the years, the only other Premiership manager who had enough faith in American players to give them a significant role in his side right at the beginning of their tenure was Cookie Coleman. Must be a gaelic thing.
Mr Hatter,
You do know we need a bit of creativity to take over from the smurph. Looks like Landon wouldn't be such an outlandish replacement if you ask me...
Quote from: finnster01 on March 17, 2010, 02:08:05 PM
Quote from: HatterDon on March 17, 2010, 01:55:20 PM
Oh, I fully agree that for the benefit of the USMNT it would be best for Donovan to stay in England. I'm trying real hard, however, and I can't think of any other USMNT hopeful who could start in the Prem that doesn't already have a starting gig elsewhere in Europe -- and that only takes in Michael Bradley and Steve Cherundolo. It would NOT, however, be the best thing for the MLS or for The Galaxy for Donovan to stay, and they're the ones paying his salary.
I think Donovan made a significant mistake signing that four year contract. Like most American soccer fans who are aware of the world game, I thought he limited himself needlessly in becoming the quintessential big fish in a small pond. I DO believe, however, that he's best suited to La Liga. Having said that, I don't know if there's any other Premiership manager who could have gotten as much out of Donovan as did Moyes. Over the years, the only other Premiership manager who had enough faith in American players to give them a significant role in his side right at the beginning of their tenure was Cookie Coleman. Must be a gaelic thing.
Mr Hatter,
You do know we need a bit of creativity to take over from the smurph. Looks like Landon wouldn't be such an outlandish replacement if you ask me...
I'm certainly not going to disagree with you, but I am NEVER going to suggest that on any Fulham site. Whenever any of us suggests an American player it results in a cascade of posts trashing us. Since nothing we can say can affect anyone's thinking -- including the board's -- we just give up.
I will say that his performance @ Everton and his long-term contract means that we're never going to be able to afford him. The time to have made the move for him or for Gladbach's Michael Bradley was LAST summer.
Landon's more of a wing player, imo. I don't think he's big enough or physical enough to play central mid for Roy's Fulham. Plus you somewhat negate one of his better assets, his pace.
Quote from: finnster01 on March 17, 2010, 02:08:05 PM
Mr Hatter,
You do know we need a bit of creativity to take over from the smurph. Looks like Landon wouldn't be such an outlandish replacement if you ask me...
Not too sure he would replace Smurf's position, more likely Geras in my mind.
