Good morning fellow footsoldiers. Was not the silky footwork of Brede after Mark had saved from Odemwingie quite out of keeping with the central defender club? His gentle carressing of the ball as he walzed past another marauding attacker was an exceptional display of ball control. However, this went completely unnoticed by MOTD....wonder what would have happened if this had been demonstrated by a defender of the top four clubs?
Now doubt the man is close to being our best ever central defender....and they put that donkey Richard Dunne in the prem top team the year we got to Hamburg...
..and they put that donkey Richard Dunne in the prem top team the year we got to Hamburg...
Only for his goal scoring prowess Capt :005:
Yes he is lethal in front of his own goal. :011:
I nominate Dunne for the Zat Knight Award for Excellence. :55:
Our own Johnny Pantsil was quite adept at finding his own net, I seem to remember...
Yes, Brede's footwork was quite remarkable (as our ex-manager and tv pundit would say). Hate to think of the stick he'd have got if it hadn't come off! But that's confidence for you. It's what turned Zamora's career with us around, and what Ruiz needs to show us what he is capable of.
I'd have to agree that Hangeland is probably our best ever centre back. But it is a pretty competitive field. I can remember the likes of Bentley, Keetch, Dempsey, Went, Lacy, Howe, Money, Brown, Coleman, Morgan, Symonds, Melville, Goma, Knight (not everybody's favourite, I know!) and Hughes to name a few. They might not all have been world-beaters, but it does show that we have been well served in this position over the years.
As you rightly say cmg we have had many a great centre back. My best so far is Roy Bentley. Swapped from a top quality centre forward he made an imposing centre back. Was Bobby Keecth our most uncompromising?
No doubt Brede is among the top three in the league....mind you no oen in the media would say this.
Keetch was terrifying. By the standards even of his day he was "uncompromising". No way a player like that could play today.
Bobby Keetch - "uncompromising", a very interesting use of the word!
He wasn't around for long, but left an indelible impression in all who saw him - and a great deal of scar tissue on the limbs of those cente-forwards who he opposed.
He got away with it for a while, but after he was sent off for brawling with Irvine (or Lochhead, can't remember which) of Burnley in a Christmas return fixture the referees had him sussed and he was never quite so effective.
Roy Bentley was probably my favourite, too (although I think Coleman had a great deal of class). The year we went up (1959) we played Swansea at the Cottage (I think this was one of the few home matches we lost). It had just been announced that Mel Charles (John's younger brother) was to sign for Arsenal and the young hero was surrounded by press photographers before the match. Bentley seemed to take exception to this adulation (he was quite a fearsome figure with his craggy features and hooded eyes, the epitome of the old pro) and young Mel spent the match either on his back or falling. The boy's football annuals I got for christmas that year all had pictures of Mel Charles from that game (usually in retouched Arsenal colours), they were tightly cropped, but they couldn't get rid of Roy Bentley's boot in all of them making violent contact with the Welshman's person.
In my time, I have seen a fair few centre halfs playing for Fulham. From Jim Taylor, who was quite handy, Derek Lampe and Gordon Brice, both of whom never met the promise of earlier years and Roy Bentley, who was very nearly capped by England as a centre half, also don't for get Eddie Lowe, who inlater years moved to Centre half. Have to say though that I think that Brede is properbly our best, especially with his partnership with Aaron Hughes, who is also up there. Might be interesting to have a top ten. Mine would be:
1. Brede Hangerland
2. Chris Coleman
3. Roy Bentley
4. Jim Taylor
5. Aaron Hughes
6. Tony Gale
7. Eddie Lowe
8. Roger Brown
9. Bobby Keetch
10. Paul Went.
would like to make it a top 12 and have chris baird and carlos boccanegra (spelling) sitting in there somewhere.
I wouldn't disagree with Peabody's assessment, although Jim Taylor predates my experience.
I'd forgotten about Tony Gale an excellent payer of considerable skill, unlucky not to get a full cap, he formed a fine partnership with Roger Brown. Taking over from Lacy and Mooro - who, if past his best, was still pretty good for us and is, of course, considered by some judges (including Pele and Kaiser Franz) to have been the greatest defensive player of all.
Eddie Lowe was my old man's favourite from that era (he greatly admired Haynes, but, I think, secretely thought that Alex James was better) but I remember him more of an old fashioned defensive wing-half (holding midfielder , in today's parlance?). Whatever, he must surely be unique in having been dropped by his country after playing in a 10-0 away victory (v Portugal)!
Of course Bobby Moore was brilliant for us but I thought we were talking of Nos 5's (the traditional number for a centre half). Technically, I suppose that on that premise I should'nt include Tony Gale or Aaron Hughes who would be defensive wing halfs. Whilst I am on, I mentioned Paul Went, who was a very good player but could be a red card in waiting. When he moved to Portsmouth from us, his first game against us was just prior to our 1975 cup final and he did a shocking tackle on Les Strong, which meant Les missed the cup final.
Glad to see Jim Taylor mentioned. 'Gentleman Jim' was reckoned to be good enough for England but Neil Franklin kept him out. He was playing when I first started going.
As for Roy Bentley I used to go to primary school (West Twyford) with his daughter and still recall him picking her up at 3 and looking to stand about 8 foot tall. Him not his daughter.
Whatever is said about subtle Bobby Keetch he loved the club and apparently was really upset when he was sold to QPR.
As for Eddie Lowe, like Aaron Hughes, a quiet man who just got on with his job, nice bloke he always seemed.
I think what happened was that the game changed.
Bentley, Dodgin, Keetch etc. played as solo central defenders with a no. 5 on their backs. Englands WC win in '66 virtually confirmed the supremacy of the back 4 with twin centre-backs becoming the norm (in the best set-ups one of them would be a more cultured player eg. Moore or Gale), and numbers became less relevent.
I was usually confused by 'systems', at least until Hodgson opened my eyes, but did we not sometimes use THREE centre-backs in the Coleman/Melville/Symods/Morgan era? As an erstwhile solo centre-half myself, I sometimes wondered what they all found to do.
I don't want to get too bogged down in nostalgia, but I've enjoyed this thread and am particularly pleased to find those about who go further back than I do.
My abiding memory of Bobby Keetch, apart from the mayhem he wraught on the field, was his off-field style. In an age when pro footballers dressed like schoolteachers and carried their boots in a brown paper bag to see Keetch emerge from the team coach in immaculate cashmere overcoat with astrakhan collar carrying his mohair suit on a hanger ready for the evening's King's Road festivities was a sight to behold.
His taste for the stylish, which included some impressive female company, did not extend to his football boots which were iron toe-capped monstrosities which looked like the cast-offs of a 1930's second-row forward.
A tragically young death and a great mate of Johnny Haynes, Keetch was an excellent bloke and always had time for his fans.
Quote from: bog on September 27, 2011, 08:11:35 PM
Glad to see Jim Taylor mentioned. 'Gentleman Jim' was reckoned to be good enough for England but Neil Franklin kept him out. He was playing when I first started going.
As for Roy Bentley I used to go to primary school (West Twyford) with his daughter and still recall him picking her up at 3 and looking to stand about 8 foot tall. Him not his daughter.
Whatever is said about subtle Bobby Keetch he loved the club and apparently was really upset when he was sold to QPR.
As for Eddie Lowe, like Aaron Hughes, a quiet man who just got on with his job, nice bloke he always seemed.
Jim Taylor did get two England caps Bog. One against Portugal and the other against Ireland (I think). How come I can remember that but regularly forget my post code?
Quote from: cmg on September 27, 2011, 08:36:06 PM
I don't want to get too bogged down in nostalgia
Why? In an Old Sod's Army thread it's nothing short of essential !
I'd have to agree that Hangeland is probably our best ever centre back. But it is a pretty competitive field. I can remember the likes of Bentley, Keetch, Dempsey, Went, Lacy, Howe, Money, Brown, Coleman, Morgan, Symonds, Melville, Goma, Knight (not everybody's favourite, I know!) and Hughes to name a few. They might not all have been world-beaters, but it does show that we have been well served in this position over the years.
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Oh I was so enjoying your list CMG until you mentioned ZAT :58:
My flabber remains ghasted that he is still playing at Premiership level.
Regarding the flamboyant Keetch, I remember a game against our neighbours at The Cottage and unusually we were pressing toward the hammy end when a long ball was quickly played over the top.
Keetch (Terry Venables best friend btw) and Bobby Tambling turned together... however is was only a race for 3 strides as he streaked away to slot past Macedo.
Really good thread... My top man would be Coleman..... just
Yes Peabody you are right he got them two caps, I should have said that he would have got a lot more if it was not for Franklin....sorry to be pedantic...
Your reference to Bobby Keech's friendship with Johnny Haynes, cmg, reminded me of an anecdote from "Michael Parkinson On Football". Bobby recalls that he was 17 when he joined Fulham, and Haynes was the England captain. On Bobby's first day the players went to a pub for lunch, and he sat alone, not daring to speak. After the team had left he asked for his bill, only to be told that Mr Haynes had already paid it. Keetch said he didn't have to do it but "he knew as a young player I was likely to be broke, and I was". Years later Bobby was able to return the compliment by taking Johnny and his wife to Rome for the great man's 60th birthday, where they prevented a lot of vino being consigned to the European wine lake!
Hangeland probably gets my vote too, but Jim Taylor and Roy Bentley are close runners-up.
I always liked Dempsey and Lacy as well but we have had a few carthorses in that position too, Joe Stapleton, Derek Lampe, and Bill Dodgin anyone 092.gif
WOW you can't move a centimeter in this thread without getting hit in the shins by someone's low hanging danglies, christ I've tripped on more balls in this thread than zat knight on game day after an all nighter wif his bruvva... I do bow :Haynes The Maestro: to those of you who keep and yes teach we young'uns our proud history. Bang on you big balled b@stards, bang on. :clap_hands:
Blimey, I completely forgot John Dempsey. I do think he was good but I have to say, he really reached his full potential when he moved to that lot up the road. Does anyone remember another young one who moved to Oxford by the name of Dave Roberts.
I recall Dave Roberts, bright blonde hair, he put through his own goal in his first game. He left for Oxford and played a few games for Wales...I think...
One centre half that we all seem to have forgotten, perhaps not one of the top players, but one that would run through a brick wall for the club when the club began to rise again...Terry Angus.
Terry Angus and Mark Blake, yup another good pairing, plus Blake scored quite a few goals as well. Nick Cusack another in that group but was he a centre half?
...I remember Dave Roberts and that shock of blond hair as well, and his debut o.g. but the lad threw himself into the game and gave his all - hmmmm! at what age do you need to be to join the old sods army..?
:023: :026:
You're in.......
Just don't tell them your name Pike...doh!
Quote from: Fernhurst on September 28, 2011, 10:01:29 AM
You're in.......
Just don't tell them your name Pike...doh!
...all present and correct saaaah!
Now how come Reg Matthewson has not been mentioned..?
This age requirement for the Old Sod's Army. Well I reckon we can take conscripts from a very tender age. No press gang just those who are prepared to listen to those who grunt and break wind when they stand up and do similar when sitting down and who can sit and tell tales of nostaligic times.....
I'm amazed on-one's mentioned Geoff Banton, the Gordon McQueen lookalike. It was just unfortunate he couldn't play like him!
We've done the good and the ugly - before getting onto the bad (and even in the wilderness days our cente-backs were by no means our worst feature) I'd put in a word for Jeff Hopkins; a better full-back but he put in a decent shift at centre-back, too.
And Alan Stephenson we ahd on loan from Wet Hammers. I seem to recall he looking to be a bundle of nerves, we did not extend his loan.
Derek Lampe had the physique of a heavyweight boxer and was an England yooof player but he had a knee injury early in his career and we never saw the best of he.
Met him and Tosh once. Both really nice blokes.
Now, I know mentioning Derek Lampe to Corked Hat is as bad as Reg Stratton but imo Derek was a really promising player. Unfortunately, he was also very injury prone. Despite this, he really did have tremendous potential, which was never achieved.
No ones gone for Doug Rougvie, CB who played for us back on 89 and was a right old lump, if memory serves he may have even been captain at some stage, he only played 18 games for us and was ex Chelsea but Doug( The Thug) should be in there somewhere.
Quote from: MJG on September 28, 2011, 05:58:23 PM
No ones gone for Doug Rougvie, CB who played for us back on 89 and was a right old lump, if memory serves he may have even been captain at some stage, he only played 18 games for us and was ex Chelsea but Doug( The Thug) should be in there somewhere.
...Definitely one for the "Ugly" category.
Sorry, disagree about Rougvie. My goodness, you'll want Terry Hurlock in next!!!!
Quote from: Peabody on September 28, 2011, 05:08:36 PM
Now, I know mentioning Derek Lampe to Corked Hat is as bad as Reg Stratton but imo Derek was a really promising player. Unfortunately, he was also very injury prone. Despite this, he really did have tremendous potential, which was never achieved.
Nobody, and I mean nobody, was worse than Reg Stratton Mr P so Derek Lampe isn't on a par with him, but if Derek Lampe wasn't the slowest player I have seen then it was either John Chenhall or the Michael Jackson statue. Maybe Lampe had some potential but to me he never fuflifilled it. Most centre forwards seemed to run rings round him but perhaps I am being unkind. :down_under:
Slow Fulham centre halves?
Have you all forgotten Sean Gore?
We have had a few ropey one have'nt we? Have to say though, whilst he never set the world alight, I always had a soft spot for Joe Stapleton but like Lampe and Brice, his career was dogged by injury. I suppose CH will say that Lampe was only getting injured because he kept getting trampled by the speedy carthorse.
Quote from: Peabody on September 29, 2011, 09:51:48 AM
We have had a few ropey one have'nt we? Have to say though, whilst he never set the world alight, I always had a soft spot for Joe Stapleton but like Lampe and Brice, his career was dogged by injury. I suppose CH will say that Lampe was only getting injured because he kept getting trampled by the speedy carthorse.
I'd forgotten about Gordon Brice - God help us. I think you must be one of the most forgiving people on this planet Mr P. You must have seen something in these blokes that I never saw. Honestly, you could have gone to Hackney Marshes any Sunday and find ten better centre halfs than them and that was in the Under 10s
Well, they were all Fulham Players CH and in that case reality is suspended. Except in the case of Vic Buckingham, who got everything he deserved.
Quote from: Peabody on September 29, 2011, 12:49:51 PM
Well, they were all Fulham Players CH and in that case reality is suspended. Except in the case of Vic Buckingham, who got everything he deserved.
Of course you are quite right Mr P. The less committed than I was used to give Johnny Key some stick but the old Corked Hat would defend him with the last breath in his body. The only player I had trouble in finding anything good to say about (other than Reg) was Frank Large, but even with him I felt more sorrow than anger. Yes - they took on a different aspect when they donned the white shirt
The thing about Dear Frank was the glaring contrast between him and the player we got him as part-payment for...
Allan Clarke valued at £150,000 then...and we only got the £100k plus Frankie valued at £50K when the more accurate valuation was about fifty bob.....Leicester must've laughed themselves silly to get a world class striker for a knock-down price and offload Large at the same time!
...and then they made a £15K profit when they sold Sniffer on to Leeds !
Our Frank could not have been more the opposite of Clarke. Whereas the latter was a rather elegant looking player Frank was quite the opposite. Poundstretcher to Harrods? Already there was a lot of bad feeling about the deal and then when he failed to score out came the knives. Mind you he always gave 100%.
Funnily enough after all this posting about CHs I think he was switched to the number 5 shirt for few games but it was not long before he was moved on. Apparently he was very nice bloke.
I find that I have dislike for those plyers who spout off about leaving the club if they go down even before the club does. So, being rather thick, they fall foul of the fans with good memories. Obviously Clarke left because of our relegation although he was still banging in goal after goal up until we did, and I don't recall any bluster about getting the arse if we went down.
Kamara was never top drawer however he made it quite clear that in the event of relegation he would be looking to play elsewhere. Mind you he did score those two at City! I still never really took to he.
Thank you and good night.
Poor old Frank, I am right in thinking it took him a whole season to score his first for. Ironically he was scored quite freely at other clubs. Think of Kuqi and you have Frank Large.
Aaaaargh! Frank Large. Probably the biggest disappointment of them all, amazingly qualifies for this thread as he did, once, wear the no. 5 shirt (they'd probably hidden the no. 9 one to prevent him getting his hands on it).
As you say, the contrast with his predecessor couldn't have been more marked. He wowed us with 3 goals the whole season (2 at Birmingham and one when we were already relegated) which included a big fat ZERO at home.
A glance at Wiki reveals that yes, he did find the net more readily elsewhere (particularly at Northampton, which was about his level). He died aged only 63 in Ireland, having, at least according to Wiki, played cricket for Co. Mayo - which, if true, forgives him a lot in my book.
I've just had a sudden memory flashback, which sees him scoring at the Cottage (header? Hammersmith End?) - must have been in some pre-season semi-friendly. Watney Cup? Or perhaps I'm hallucinating and should put away my "I saw Frank Large score" t-shirt.
The two goals he scored at Birmingham were in a 5-4 defeat.
I seem to recall an inside forward trio of Frank Large, Brian Dear and Johnny Byrne which was, quite literally, immense.
Quote from: TonyGilroy on September 29, 2011, 04:44:15 PM
The two goals he scored at Birmingham were in a 5-4 defeat.
I seem to recall an inside forward trio of Frank Large, Brian Dear and Johnny Byrne which was, quite literally, immense.
...Dear, Large and Byrne would have made a good front row, certainly Brian Dear and Budgie Byrne would qualify for the Jan Molby fat footballers of the century award! For all of Frank's faults, he tried desperately hard to score, and was at times just unlucky with the bounce. A very likeable guy but as a hapless replacement for Allan Clarke he was always going to be on a hiding for nothing...
