All,
I need some advice and you are all very learned, experienced and wise individuals. This is not to do with love lives or home at all, this is work related. I'm in a sticky situation, but a good one none the less.
I work for a medium sized company who specialise in Branding (flags banners etc) and I am in a CSE (Customer Service Exec.) role, which was on a temporary 3 month contract after I was released from my old job in sales. After the 3 months I was told I would be offered a permanent contract within the company. I have been here 5 months now, I have helped to shape the dept. and increase margins (price lists, new suppliers etc) but still no word on a permanent contract, they are telling me it is on the cards.... and has been for the past two months.
Now, my colleague, there are two of us the run the dept, my senior, has since been given her marching orders, leaving me to do Senior CSE, CSE, BDM and Operatives work all by myself. On a casuals wage £5.95 I believe. The dept is way of budget which is a main factor in her release and they are cost cutting.
Obviously, as anyone would be I do not want to be doing a departments work on piss-poor money, and I want to speak up, now I do not want the same 'fate' as my colleague, how do I go about making my points and when is a time to do so? The MD has told me and my old senior he holds me in high regard and I have a big future at the company.
On top of this my best mates company has just had a position open up in SEO optimisation, something I'd love to get into, I'd be a trainee. It's making me think twice about my secure role here, to a brand new role over there.
Any help is appreciated/
Cheers :59:
You are being shafted at your current employers but never leave a job with certainty of a role elsewhere.
Tell them you want a perm contract by the end of the week or you'll look elsewhere. Give them the "I'm really excited about the future..." bullpoo and say you want to be part of it
As Tom says, make sure you have the other offer first (in writing). When approaching current employer, be relaxed and turn a few questions on them, example, "do you think that is reasonable and fair?" after stating your case. Think through your argumnet/presentation before discussing. In your short time with them, have you ever given them a reason to criticise you. If you have it will probably be brought up, be prepared to counter it.
I have always said never sell yourself cheaply, you will never get it made up but these are particularly difficult times which make it not so easy.
Good luck.
If your mates job is a better one and you are cert to get it then take it,you have said it's what you want to get into anyway, you are being used where you are, lots of firms pay crap wages on better things to come bright future etc that never materilise
What Epsom says +1
Thanks guys, all taken aboard. :D
...it depends on your age, commitments and ambitions. Looking into what you have said it looks like your present company are exploiting you with the promise of "jam tomorrow".
They, like others appear to be suffering hence the redundancies, but you have to realise that you are selling yourself as a commodity and if they are not prepared to pay you what you think you are worth I would go elsewhere - but make sure you have - in writing, a job offer from your mate as security...
Yeah, as most people say, go to your mate's company, well apply for the job. Should you get it, then you can really play hard ball with your current employers. Reading between the lines, your current employers, while quite likely meaning well, haven't got a pot to piss in at the mo and are stringing you along.
Quote from: LBNo11 on October 12, 2011, 02:23:17 PM
...it depends on your age, commitments and ambitions. Looking into what you have said it looks like your present company are exploiting you with the promise of "jam tomorrow".
They, like others appear to be suffering hence the redundancies, but you have to realise that you are selling yourself as a commodity and if they are not prepared to pay you what you think you are worth I would go elsewhere - but make sure you have - in writing, a job offer from your mate as security...
I forgot to mention I am 20. So would the same advice apply to all points from here on out?
Sorry to keep asking questions but I'd rather every base be covered than not
'So would the same advice apply to all points from here on out?'
Yes absolutely - good time to get in on the ground level in SEO I'd say. Do it asap, they're stitching you up big time IMO
...at your age I would go for the new horizons with more potential and add to your experience on your CV. Loyalty is a good thing of course, if it reciprocal.
Good luck and let us know how you get on...
in the old days I would suggest getting into the civil service. But that has gone to ratshit thanks to the Labour government and now you have poor fools paying more into a pension scheme than they'll get out when they reach 75 or whatever the retirement age will be
It's a difficult one especially given the current market conditions.My advice is to not sell yourself short, put everything you have done down on paper, update your CV, think about what you feel should be paid(and add 10-15% so start high and they will knock you down.). Ask for a meeting, tell them you think you deserve this that and the other.
If you don't ask, you don't get. They can say no and keep you on, say no and let you go, and in the meantime apply for the other job.
it's all about following your gut instinct,you know you current situation and you know your mate,there is nothing to say you'll be better off at your mates or even if it would last and there's nothing to say you'll get the money you want where you are,you go with what you instinct says, don't be thinking what if 092.gif
I worked for Sony for 10 years and, while there was good job security there (insofar as the current business climate allowed), the money was fairly poor and the prospects for promotion negligible as my role was fairly specialised.
I got approached by a friend to come and work for him in a business start-up and, after a whole heap of soul searching, decided that I'd regret not taking the chance more than I would regret passing up the opportunity.
I got the offer in writing and quit the next day. They tried to keep me but I wouldn't hear of it.
15 months later, I still regard if as one of the best decisions that I ever took - the work is bloody hard but the rewards are potentially immense - and I have heard that there is disgruntlement at Sony that they let me go.
So, for my twopenceworth, get it in writing then go. Don't accept their pleas to keep you, they are only thinking of how they can cover their own backsides and, as you have shown "disloyalty" by demonstrating a desire to depart, they will marginalise you later and ease you out. Yes, the grass isn't always greener on the other side but sometimes you have to go and check that out for yourself. In all honesty, what do you have to lose?
Good luck!
Go for a job with fewer TLAs..
Assuming you are male and in your 20's the world of work is your playground.
''On a casuals wage £5.95 I believe''
A polite question, are you on a windup ???
Quote from: LBNo11 on October 12, 2011, 02:23:17 PM
...it depends on your age, commitments and ambitions. Looking into what you have said it looks like your present company are exploiting you with the promise of "jam tomorrow".
They, like others appear to be suffering hence the redundancies, but you have to realise that you are selling yourself as a commodity and if they are not prepared to pay you what you think you are worth I would go elsewhere - but make sure you have - in writing, a job offer from your mate as security...
I agree totally.
On first read, the bit I read about your current job it seems like you're looking for certainty from your current employer, performing well and positioning yourself to take on a managerial position. Good on you. If you want to stay there then I think you need to assess how strong your position is, with a two-man department down to just you, how easy would it be to replace you? Does anyone else know and understnad the intricacies and processes of the department? If you go, how easily will it be to fill the role? Is it the sort of thing someone can be taught, by the MD for example. If no one else can easily fill in, and the department's an integral part of the business then you are in a decent position to broker a permanent deal. It's possible the MD was looking to replace your ex colleague with a cheaper alternative, you.
I agree with everyone else aboutthe verbal promise of getting a permanent contract tomorrow is probably not worth a thing, especially in today's enviornment. Can you have a frank chat with the MD and lay your cards on the table. Will they put anything in writing. They may still keep stringing you along, or they may just be hugely busy and have poor management skills. Do you like working there? That's important.
Sure, SEO is a decent future employment area, and you're young enough to get on the right track. In fact you're young enough to take the wrong track and still find the right way later on. But to give you something different to think about, what are your skills and what are they suited to? What is it you would be doing in SEO? You know your current job, and could naturally progress, are your skills and personality suited to the requirements of working in SEO? Do you think you would enjoy SEO work? What is important to you? Money is always a great driver, but satisfaction is also important. Can you see yourself having a future in either area?
Finally, once you've weighed up the pros and cons for each, make a decision. There was a great phrase someone once told me when I was looking to buy a new house - what's right you, won't go by you. So whatever you choose to do is the path your life will take, and there's no right or wrong decision. It's your call.
Quote from: Airfix on October 12, 2011, 04:41:57 PM
I worked for Sony for 10 years and, while there was good job security there (insofar as the current business climate allowed), the money was fairly poor and the prospects for promotion negligible as my role was fairly specialised.
I got approached by a friend to come and work for him in a business start-up and, after a whole heap of soul searching, decided that I'd regret not taking the chance more than I would regret passing up the opportunity.
I got the offer in writing and quit the next day. They tried to keep me but I wouldn't hear of it.
15 months later, I still regard if as one of the best decisions that I ever took - the work is bloody hard but the rewards are potentially immense - and I have heard that there is disgruntlement at Sony that they let me go.
So, for my twopenceworth, get it in writing then go. Don't accept their pleas to keep you, they are only thinking of how they can cover their own backsides and, as you have shown "disloyalty" by demonstrating a desire to depart, they will marginalise you later and ease you out. Yes, the grass isn't always greener on the other side but sometimes you have to go and check that out for yourself. In all honesty, what do you have to lose?
Good luck!
Sound advice Airfix :54:
Well stay at that job but in your off time look for another job. When you find a better job than if you still want to stay at your old company ask for more money and if they don't give you more money leave, maybe other job will be less paid but you will have less work to do and not like here you are working for two people
Quote from: KCat on October 12, 2011, 07:55:43 PM
Assuming you are male and in your 20's the world of work is your playground.
''On a casuals wage £5.95 I believe''
A polite question, are you on a windup ???
Why would I be on a wind up? That is there or there abouts what I get paid.
Thanks guys for the very sound advice it has been a lot of help.
Last night I applied for the job, I'm hoping to hear back either today or tomorrow to see whether I am called in for an interview.
Mr. aFFCn - SEO is something that I have wanted to do since I had left education, anything in the media sector is a great interest to me, in particular the traditional media which is what the current role is aimed at. I know how campaigns work and have studied them excessively through education and its something I really really enjoy as sad as that sounds. As you mentioned did I think my skills would pass over? That is yet to be seen, I have a good knowledge of all the fundamentals, I have been self-teaching for the past 6 months, albeit at a slow rate.
The role is of a junior/trainee and training is provided on the job too so hopefully that is something that will mould the skills I already have into what they arer looking for.
'...and, after a whole heap of soul searching, decided that I'd regret not taking the chance more than I would regret passing up the opportunity.'
Which is exactly the thought process Hodgson went through - though without as much success in the place he went to
so true!
Hodgson had the comfort of knowing that the penalty for failure would be a £6M compensation pay out.
Quote from: TonyGilroy on October 13, 2011, 09:29:06 AM
Hodgson had the comfort of knowing that the penalty for failure would be a £6M compensation pay out.
Don't really think that was a factor to be honest. Apart from anything else, I would imagine he doesn't really need to work to put bread on the table like the original poster of this thread. Would like to think he took the decision on a more personal achievement level.
I wasn't being entirely serious but there is a tendency for the rich to think they need ever more money.
The original poster should persue whatever opportunities he can but I'd also suggest that he ask his present employers for an appraisal so that all concerns, ambitions etc can be put on the table.
Employers can sometimes simply be too busy to properly take on board their employee's concerns.
Quote from: ClarksOriginal on October 13, 2011, 08:54:43 AM
Thanks guys for the very sound advice it has been a lot of help.
Last night I applied for the job, I'm hoping to hear back either today or tomorrow to see whether I am called in for an interview.
Mr. aFFCn - SEO is something that I have wanted to do since I had left education, anything in the media sector is a great interest to me, in particular the traditional media which is what the current role is aimed at. I know how campaigns work and have studied them excessively through education and its something I really really enjoy as sad as that sounds. As you mentioned did I think my skills would pass over? That is yet to be seen, I have a good knowledge of all the fundamentals, I have been self-teaching for the past 6 months, albeit at a slow rate.
The role is of a junior/trainee and training is provided on the job too so hopefully that is something that will mould the skills I already have into what they arer looking for.
Well in that case, if it is something you've got a passion for and have been learning in your own time that says a lot. You've probably done the right thing by applying. Good luck. You can buy us all beers when, you get the job
The difference between Woy and his ilk, and the posters (and majority of members here), is that the former do not depend on future earnings to live comfortable, the latter do.
At 20, the world is still your oyster, depending on your domestic circumstances and your financial commitments (loans etc) once those are covered then do what you want to do, enjoy your life while you can, as life passes you by a lot faster than you can appreciate.
Quick update:
Had a call from another Digital marketing/SEO company this afternoon.
They are sending me a letter upon recommendation from another company.
The phone call I had with them didn't sound too legit, but maybe when the letter comes I will be able to determine what to do.
Probably in line with the advice already given but:
1. Check with your current employer what the future holds for you, in terms of contract, progression, etc.
2. Manage the balance between "being valued" and "being taken for a ride" carefully. There's a fine line...
3. Don't go anywhere else without checking them out fully first, and having a written offer and contract from them.
4. If you get the opportunity to move in to your dream job, then "do an Airfix" and grab it.... Such opportunities tend to be rare.
Good luck!
:54:
