But do we really need to massively segregate fans?
everyone's up in arms about last night but we had a great time with lots of Poles around us. I didn't think they were 'taking the piss' at all, just making noise and enjoying the football.
Yes, I'm sure there were some morons about, but it's not like there aren't any half-bright Fulham fans who get angry about silly things, is it?
It's one of those strange questions (like: "why on earth do we still need a military?") that is never really talked about. I'm being slightly facetious about this - I know that mixing fans isn't really a good idea - but equally, it really wasn't that bad.
If there had been so many away fans in any other club's home areas, ie Chelsea, West ham etc there would have been serious disturbances last night, you had a great time , well seriously A LOT OF OTHERS DIDN'T.
Yeah i was with my girlfriend, and although she's been to lots of games she did feel intimated last night. A lot of them were very drunk as well, i found myself with one eye on the game and the other on the Polish.
I also saw a man taking his son of about 8 years old home after 15 mins of the game, complaining to stewards that they did nothing when they were surrounded by large drunk Poles in OUR home end.
Yes, we absolutely need to, because it is impossible to gauge every response/each fan/how the match will pan out. Secondly, i don't want to sit next to an away fan and hear them chat b*****s; I want to be able to sit with like minded fans and discuss my club. If there was no segregation, it'd ruin moments of joy and hugging the random next to you. Also, how would any atmosphere ever be generated?
Quote from: mr_ska on November 04, 2011, 11:01:10 AM
Yeah i was with my girlfriend, and although she's been to lots of games she did feel intimated last night. A lot of them were very drunk as well, i found myself with one eye on the game and the other on the Polish.
I also saw a man taking his son of about 8 years old home after 15 mins of the game, complaining to stewards that they did nothing when they were surrounded by large drunk Poles in OUR home end.
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Mate we felt the same, my Missus used to be a steward back in the old days and was at the cottage end when Cardiff invaded the enclosure she was instrumental in holding a lot of their fans back until help came so she has been in the thick of it and hardly missed a game in 28 years , she felt intimidated last night, what club gives the away fans so much of their ground? the previous campaign had the away fans at the end of the JH stand and home fans all around the rest, the players noticed this, last night it was like an away game , who are these marketing numpties? they know nothing about running a football club, just greed to sell more tickets which could have seriously back fired last night.
Apparently the JH stand was for Poles who bought their tickets in Poland and the Putney End was for Poles who bought their tickets in the UK (there were supporters of many Polish teams in there). My best guess is that Fulham realised that a Polish team coming would attract a lot of ex-pat Poles to it and they decided to do their best to contain what could turn out to be a big problem.
In the main, I think they did well enough but there WERE a lot of Poles in home areas (including one in front of me who celebrated when they scored and got roundly shouted down by all those around).
I think we should segregate the moronic Fulham fans into one area. Wasn't there last night (gutted) but I sat next to Roma fans in the Putney end in our previous Europa campaign and I thought it was great. Unfortunately some fans will get upset about this and yes it can be quite intimidating depending on the type of fan you're faced by but will the club be that bothered? I don't think so as there primary aim was to get bums on seats. They should of really made the Putney end for away fans.
Last night I was very annoyed that the away fans were simply re-seated and not ejected, after all, I'd expect to be thrown out if it was the other way around, however I appreciate the extent to which trouble could have been increased did mean it was a more sensible approach. All that said though, it beggars belief that they got in anyway. They were obviously ('We are Wisla' shirts!!) away fans, yet they are not stopped at the turnstiles by our £4.50 an hour morons. Stewards shouldn't lack the confidence to tell someone a quite simple, no entry, they really shouldn't!
Quote from: Jack Fulham on November 04, 2011, 11:47:15 AM
I think we should segregate the moronic Fulham fans into one area. Wasn't there last night (gutted) but I sat next to Roma fans in the Putney end in our previous Europa campaign and I thought it was great. Unfortunately some fans will get upset about this and yes it can be quite intimidating depending on the type of fan you're faced by but will the club be that bothered? I don't think so as there primary aim was to get bums on seats. They should of really made the Putney end for away fans.
We are segregated into one area - it's called the home end.
odd that rugby, cricket, ice hockey, baseball or... almost any other sport in fact... fans can be near each other without it being a problem. I suppose I'm sufficiently naive to wonder why people can't act like grownups.
Like I said, it was half tongue in cheek, but equally, I've seen lots of nonsense on this subject. In the run a couple of years ago there were a couple of very polite Swiss people in the Riverside. They'd only come to enjoy the game because a Swiss team were playing but some moron near us heard them talking and tried to start a fight with them.... sure enough, they were ejected. It felt so wrong. Technically they were a bit naive to go into a home end, but against that, is 'territory' so important, so in need of defending that you'll act like this on perfectly nice people?
Different to last night I grant you - lots of the poles (not a pretty nation, are they?) were tanked up and looking a bit leery, but as I say, all good fun where we were (JH, near to the segregated bit). Ho hum.
I'm just so so glad I took the club's option to change my season ticket seat in the Putney end to the Hammersmith end for last night. I was with my partner as they like to come to the Europa League games, I just know we would have had to leave very soon after the start if we had been in the Putney. :022:
Quote from: richie17 on November 04, 2011, 12:05:38 PM
Different to last night I grant you - lots of the poles (not a pretty nation, are they?)
The men, very accurate. The Women, quite the opposite. I don't understand it but 90% of the women are stunning.
I sat in the Hammersmith end (instead of my normal Putney seat) and while it good to be back with all the singing etc, I had some idiot of a fulham fan behind me.
He felt that 90 mins of "fix my extension, fix my toilet, your be back on the building site, etc etc" jokes aimed at their players and fans was a great thing to do, oh how he must of impressed his two little kids he had with him.
Oh well back to being surrounded by Spurs fans on sunday.
Quote from: WhiteMulberry on November 04, 2011, 12:31:06 PM
Quote from: richie17 on November 04, 2011, 12:05:38 PM
Different to last night I grant you - lots of the poles (not a pretty nation, are they?)
The men, very accurate. The Women, quite the opposite. I don't understand it but 90% of the women are stunning.
Couldn't agree more. Krakow away - time of my life!
Was gonna go last night but things overlapped, so ended up watching it in work. Looked tremendous tbh - good game and a cracking atmosphere. Would you really prefer the 300 Danes who are gonna turn up in a few weeks' time to this? And why are so many surprised/indignant that so many Poles turned up all over stadium, given that it was a tenner to see a Polish team play on the doorstep of, perhaps, the most Polish part of the country?
Quote from: richie17 on November 04, 2011, 10:34:35 AM
But do we really need to massively segregate fans?
Interesting to see this question posed. Presumably, segregation first came in because there was trouble, but I'd guess too that once segregation became the norm it increased the capacity for trouble by emphasising the us-against-them thing. On the whole, I like largely segregated crowds because the singing, etc. has more chance to get going. Having said that, I've never been that bothered about odd fans in the home end (though I appreciate this depends what they're doing) - I think there's a distinction between the (from my point-of view, slightly silly) 'outing' of away fans who are pretty much minding their own business, or perhaps even there because they've even gone with a Fulham friend, and someone trying to cause trouble; somewhere, in between, there's the slightly annoying but not-really-any problem away fan who I reckon it's best to treat with stoic indifference.
... and ne'er the twain shall meet...
In my opinion, nothing has changed over the past 30 years. If you put opposing fans together during a game of football, quite a few of them would end up trying to beat the living daylights out of t'other. The only reason there is less hooliganism in football nowadays is because they're separated on the way to the stadium, in the stadium and then held back afterwards to avoid meeting outside. You just have to listen to the mocking, swearing, jeering and insulting of opposing players, staff and fans to realize that it wouldn't work. God forbid, opposing fans try to have a beer in the same pub.
The fundamental, underlying violent streak is still there even if clubs try to camouflage it by encouraging more families, women and children to attend matches.
.... and ne'er the twain shall meet.
I think I'd prefer the Dane's to be sat in their allocated section, all things considered. Same goes for any other team. No one has any issue with Poles in the JH allocated sections, nor really in the Putney, as fans were offered the chance to move, but we don't want away fans in allocated home sections. The home section should be exactly that.
Our end is our end and should be Fulham only-simple as,and I would keep the away fans in until all Fulham are out of the stadium as well,you give some people a yard AND THEY WILL take a mile 092.gif
The truth is that had there been a limited number of tickets sold to Polish fans -- say 2,000 -- there would have been a half-empty Cottage last night with the match being played in deathly quiet. As it is, the club made some money and the match was memorable.
Mind you, the idiot with the flare should have been arrested on the spot.
Doesn't Peterborough have the largest Polish community?
But there's always people in the wrong end aren't there. The other week there was an Everton fan wearing full colours sat a few rows behind me in the JH who was cheering them on quite openly.
I actually like the club's neutral end and think it's a good compromise. Sometimes it's quite good fun to meet some fans from the other team and have a chat with them, the banter's quite good and pretty insightful sometimes. At other times you want to be with your own.
I wouldn't say we need to segregate fans, but if you've chosen to be in the segregated end that should be respected and enforced.
Quote from: Jack Fulham on November 04, 2011, 11:47:15 AM
I think we should segregate the moronic Fulham fans into one area.
Good plan - there were some right idiots sitting behind me last night.
Quote from: Quills on November 04, 2011, 03:18:24 PM
But there's always people in the wrong end aren't there. The other week there was an Everton fan wearing full colours sat a few rows behind me in the JH who was cheering them on quite openly.
I actually like the club's neutral end and think it's a good compromise. Sometimes it's quite good fun to meet some fans from the other team and have a chat with them, the banter's quite good and pretty insightful sometimes. At other times you want to be with your own.
I wouldn't say we need to segregate fans, but if you've chosen to be in the segregated end that should be respected and enforced.
Apart from last night when I was damn glad I wasn't in the Putney end, the only times I have felt upset being there is when we lose badly and most of the stand including P1 & P2 is full of the other side e.g. against Liverpool at the the end of last season. At these times it's comforting to be with other Fulham fans, then you can share the sorrow without the rest of the stand and every body around you cheering their side that is whalloping us : (
Quote from: HatterDon on November 04, 2011, 02:41:40 PM
The truth is that had there been a limited number of tickets sold to Polish fans -- say 2,000 -- there would have been a half-empty Cottage last night with the match being played in deathly quiet. As it is, the club made some money and the match was memorable.
Mind you, the idiot with the flare should have been arrested on the spot.
Spoken by someone who wasn't there, the club made money? debatable, There could have had serious disturbances had not there been a very large Police presence,how much do you think that cost Don? the JH stand could have been set alight, cost of that ????match memorable for all the wrong reasons , why would the match have been played in deathly quiet? the previous campaign had limited away support and the cottage rocked with home support on all 4 sides of the ground.A lot of people i know stayed away because of potential trouble caused by greedy Fulham selling so many tickets all over the ground, not one of your best posts mate.
For me i thought it was a great incentive by Fulham to have a neutral end and thats were the poles should have been...
I watched the match on Tv and i would have most likely left if i was with my kids or misses in the Stevenage Rd stand ,As one post stated, one eye on the match one eye on the crowd "you just cant get comfortable with that "!
I have been to some very intimidating grounds in my time and have been glad i was on my own or with fellow fans without the family,Burnley in the 80s warm piss thrown at us ,Birmingham bricks and stones just to name a few as Sliver Fox says it really hasn't changed. Football seems to still be very tribal.Fulham made a mistake however nobody was hurt lets hope they learn from it .
When I left work yesterday, I went to get the train from Luton station, and there were several dozen already-tanked-up Poles (we have rather a large number here) on the platform, singing, chanting, having a good time. Fortunately they seemed to think their tickets only worked on First Capital Connect trains, so the East Midland train was half empty, faster and quieter.
It worked on the way home too, I just caught the last intercity going to Luton, while swarms of Poles were piling onto the slow train on the adjacent platform.
I am not opposed to the odd fan being in the wrong end. I've done it myself. The thing is, you behave yourself, if you have any sense. I've seen us stuff Luton 4-1 and 3-0 while in amongst the home fans at Kenilworth Road, and I've managed to keep my mouth shut both times, just enjoying the view. I saw us lose 1-0 to Northampton at their place, sitting next to a Cobbler friend in one of their stands, and did not get much grief from him or his mates as I was not being an idiot. I didn't wear colours, I didn't shout for Peschisolido or Morgs, I didn't tell the locals how wonderful we were, running away with the division (under Keegan). I did not provoke, so was tolerated, though most around me probably did not even suspect I was an alien.
I am opposed to large numbers of away fans, especially those who are well oiled, being in the wrong area, because they can not behave. It just does not happen. Boisterous, even happily boisterous rather than menecingly so, does not sit well in the wrong place. You may know that you and your dozen mates are harmless, the home fan swiftly moving his two kids out of the ground, and resolving never to return, does not.
I fully respect the point that the original poster was trying to make, and in an ideal world, yes, you would be absolutely right, but we live in a far from ideal world. As said below, the neutral end is a great idea, you just do not go there for the tribal stuff, and it is a shame that more clubs do not try it. Imagine a football tradition where you had home and away areas for the chanting, grunting, gesticulating stuff, and a neutral zone where everyone understood that you behaved in a civilised manner.
The problem last night, as already noted, if a UK resident wanted a ticket, what was the club to do? Also, the touts were out, selling tickets to anybody. That's one thing the club really should be able to do something about. Find out what season ticket bought the ticket that the away fan in the home area has and cancel it. It doesn't stop the tout buying it again under a different name, but it does start to cost him more money.
Mind you, it was funny seeing some of the Poles in home areas getting Fulham fans right in their faces after the third and fourth goals. You could tell it was upsetting some of them, but what could they do?
Quote from: Dan in Notts on November 04, 2011, 01:00:15 PM
Quote from: richie17 on November 04, 2011, 10:34:35 AM
But do we really need to massively segregate fans?
I think there's a distinction between the (from my point-of view, slightly silly) 'outing' of away fans who are pretty much minding their own business, or perhaps even there because they've even gone with a Fulham friend, and someone trying to cause trouble; somewhere, in between, there's the slightly annoying but not-really-any problem away fan who I reckon it's best to treat with stoic indifference.
Agree with that exactly. I have no problem with an 'Away' fan sitting on his hands in the home end. It's when they leap up and cheer when their team scores that they deserve to be ejected. In fairness, most of them were.
Quote from: Scrumpy on November 04, 2011, 11:01:38 PM
Quote from: Dan in Notts on November 04, 2011, 01:00:15 PM
Quote from: richie17 on November 04, 2011, 10:34:35 AM
But do we really need to massively segregate fans?
I think there's a distinction between the (from my point-of view, slightly silly) 'outing' of away fans who are pretty much minding their own business, or perhaps even there because they've even gone with a Fulham friend, and someone trying to cause trouble; somewhere, in between, there's the slightly annoying but not-really-any problem away fan who I reckon it's best to treat with stoic indifference.
Agree with that exactly. I have no problem with an 'Away' fan sitting on his hands in the home end. It's when they leap up and cheer when their team scores that they deserve to be ejected. In fairness, most of them were.
I agree mate, we had two behind us who watched the game, no comments, fine, 6 in front tanked up, colours all over their faces jumping about and celebrating the goal.that is taking the pee, just hope they try it at the new den!
