My son has just texted to say that Fulham fans have let themselves down by smashing up some bars.
He and some mates managed to get in a local bar with Dutch supporters and are safe.
What the hell brought that on?
Yoof. None of the travelling supporters that I know (and trust me, it's a fair old list) would ever consider anything like that.
Very disappointing if true.
'What the hell brought that on?'
The onset of puberty, an inability to take drink and some cocaine I imagine.
I had an update from someone in their late 30's on FB.
"Nearly at Enslede (spelling?). Apparently theyre waiting for us".
I dont think he meant the 'Yoof'
As far as I am concerned anyone who does that is not a supporter of this club. Morons.
Burt.......ours may not have had a choice like the Poles ???
have a look at this
Policja w Enschede pałuje bez powodu / Dutch police's aggression against Wisla fans (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3OuXKruLTM#ws)
Just left the stadium got escorted to the ground from the town bars but saw no trouble what so ever coyw
Agree Kcat but my comment was aimed more at Mr Gozorich's comments that seemed to infer that some of our "supporters" had been smashing up some bars, rather than being unduly provoked.
Any updates on this? have we let ourselves down again like that horrible night in Turin?
A significant minority of our fans are complete morons.
Tough to accept, but true.
For example, I have seen this season:
*A small group trying to get a "shoe, shoe shoe-bomber" chant started at Fulham-QPR (against Taarabt)
*On the train to FC Twente's stadium - "we hate muslims and we hate muslims..." / completely out of context national anthem singing and "no surrender to the IRA"
*A fan shouting "shut the f*** up you Dutch c***s" every time the announcer spoke
*A fan spending the entire match banging on the glass and threatening Twente fans
*A fan spending the entire second half calling our players "f***ing c***s (and shouting same to fans who tried to shut him up)
I'll tell you now ... it went off on 2 occasions that i know of ... the bar we were PUT in ended up a war ... on the way to the ground on our coach we had a text to say there was a stand off between Fulham and Twente fans near the Irish bar the police moved on the Twente lot who we think then turned up at our bar....THEY clearly wanted a fight..The police admitted we should never of been taken there... the police also said normally the games have no problems BUT TONIGHT FOR SOME REASON ALL OF TWENTE WANTS A FIGHT and that was from one of the police escorting us to the ground.... thats what happened you can sit at home judging people on hearsay but when you are in a bar and all of a sudden it ereupts you tell me what youd do... a few Fulham were hit with tables and bottles when we left the bar another 60 or so ran at us and it went off again the riot police arrived and order was restored... i did hear another group were attacked after the game as well ...
I was in the bar near the ground when it all kicked off (can't say anything about what happened in Enschede as we had left the area and in any event I avoid Irish pubs). My wife and I entered the bar and there were no other Fulham fans present. I was surprised that we were allowed entry but we were served with no problems. Went and sat at a table near the front of the pub all was quite. After about 15 minutes a group of about 30 Fulham fans arrived. They went to the back of the pub and started singing. All seemed well for about 10 minutes or so. Then all of a sudden the music stopped and there was a sound of broken glass. I quickly got my wife out of the pub (she was a bit pissed off at not being able to finish her drink, a bacardi and coke). As we turned to exit the pub I could see chairs flying through the air. We then walked to the ground. On the way we saw police cars heading to the area. Somebody else who entered the ground at the same time said it had turned into a warzone.
Whilst waiting in the departure lounge at Schipol this morning two guys sitting near me were talking about it. In their account of events after the Fulham fans started singing a number of Twente fans ran up from a lower level of the bar and attacked the Fulham fans. They also said that Arsenal had smashed up the same bar a couple of years ago and that Twente had targetted Spurs fans in retibution last year. We we just the next in line apparently.
In defence of the Fulham fans I saw in the city centre they were very vocal but nothing more than that and I certainly saw no sign of trouble. The reported attack on the Fulham bars in Oude Markt must have happened after we left the area.
It's a shame that this sort of thing has to happen. Without attributing blame (because it's clear that Twente fans initiated this) there is a small group of younger Fulham fans who relish such an opportunity. Juventus away being a classic example. There were a few guys in the ground last night who can't seem to judge when enough is enough when it comes to drink.
Quote from: ImperialWhite on December 02, 2011, 09:54:13 AM
For example, I have seen this season:
*A small group trying to get a "shoe, shoe shoe-bomber" chant started at Fulham-QPR (against Taarabt)
*On the train to FC Twente's stadium - "we hate muslims and we hate muslims..." / completely out of context national anthem singing and "no surrender to the IRA"
*A fan shouting "shut the f*** up you Dutch c***s" every time the announcer spoke
*A fan spending the entire match banging on the glass and threatening Twente fans
*A fan spending the entire second half calling our players "f***ing c***s (and shouting same to fans who tried to shut him up)
Classy. Make you wish they'd support Chelsea.
Think they used to but cannot get / afford tickets, so we are lumbered with them.
Quote from: KCat on December 01, 2011, 08:03:04 PM
Burt.......ours may not have had a choice like the Poles ???
have a look at this
Policja w Enschede pałuje bez powodu / Dutch police's aggression against Wisla fans (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3OuXKruLTM#ws)
After they tried to burn down the cottage they deserve all they get
Sounds like more of a scrap than a riot...
It was a nasty scrap that wasn't needed but we all survived and no arrests were made so could have been a lot worse ... but should never of happened if true regarding Arsenal & Spurs but that certainly would explain the polices reaction they didn't blame us at all and as said previously they were surprised we'd been taken there...
Sorry to have missed you CV.... i did throw a glass at you :011:
Reassuring to hear that our supporters were targeted and provoked, rather than caused all the trouble.
Quote from: SHADY1 on December 02, 2011, 05:45:28 PM
It was a nasty scrap that wasn't needed but we all survived and no arrests were made so could have been a lot worse ... but should never of happened if true regarding Arsenal & Spurs but that certainly would explain the polices reaction they didn't blame us at all and as said previously they were surprised we'd been taken there...
Sorry to have missed you CV.... i did throw a glass at you :011:
Very funny!!!
Well i went towards the Irish pubs about lunch time and saw alot of police so wondered off to see other places. Got to the station about 5 pm and had never seen riot police like that before, decided to get on train before the crowds did. When i got off the train didn't go towards the stadium but to the chip vans in the other direction. I was then surprised to see a train in the distance being followed by police cars. Next our fans were match off the train and under the bridge by the police to the stadium. All of this i was watching in amazement along with Twente fans eating my chips, they were fine to me, and also i had no trouble wandering around the stadium to the shop. I personally think i'm too old at 50 to be bothered about
Just got home, spent the day in Amsterdam and still quite a few Fulham there but all on their best behaviour, as for last night, we stayed right out of town and got a cab to the ground, just as we pulled up, about 600 yards from the pub, all he'll broke loose, loads of Fulham came out the pub, and it all kicked off, we passed loads of police in the cab but seemed like they took forever to arrive, before finally the mounted police showed up, a window got putt through in I think the greek bar, we hung about a bit after the game and seemed like there was still a decent amount of Twenty hooligans about, bumped into a few Fulham with cuts and bruises, but hopefully no one got hurt too bad, from my take, the twenty lot came looking for it
Managed to avoid any trouble and the Twente fans we met were great guys. But I've heard various accounts and it was definately Twente fans that started any trouble. I heard that young Twente fans are trying to make a name for themselves as 'top firm' in Holland.
The Dutch policeman that I spoke to said that they knew from reports that Fulham fans would be no trouble, but they had to protect us from Twente fans who were out for trouble. Fulham fans were no angels and there's a minority of trouble-makers, but it was Twente fans who would not 'allow' Fulham fans to drink in a couple of Irish bars without confronting them. It was Twente fans who said 'take that flag down or we'll tear it down you English c*nts', and it was Twente fans who set upon a coach load of 'youth' after the game.
The vast majority of Fulham fans travelling away are the same ones that received awards etc for their good behaviour 2 seasons ago. Not much has changed.
Dutch fans do have a reputation for this type of thing,I'm not surprised to be honest
Can confirm no fault attributable to Fulham at all. We rocked up about 1pm and there were already a full pub full of Dutch lads. None of them drinking, all staring at the Fulham pub, must have been a fair few hundred of them. They didn't come out in that number so early on a weekday for nothing. They've recently done over PSV and are trying to make a name for themselves.
Thanks for the reports from those ACTUALLY THERE sums up the situation pretty accurately IT'S a shame the same little group of our fans always like to post the worst they HEAR about before gathering the facts.. I dislike fans like them as much as they dislike those they slag off.... I don't condone people who abuse innocent people and agree some get so smashed they don't know whats going on but they are young and experiencing these things many for the 1st time but they are Fulham fans and every club has a group like this we are lucky how small ours is...
SW if you'd looked closer you'd have seen me duck something just missed my head as the window crashed through...
I'm still out here .. only saw a handful of FFC fans still here there are so many bars its almost too big... I'm off to Ajax hopefully later to experience a Dutch game at the Amsterdam Areana ....I'll wear Fulham colours hopefully nothing will be thrown at me..
Oh yeh Happy belated scrumpy good seeing you in the ground....
Didn't see any Fulham in Amsterdam after the game, so many options so widespread. A lot were on my flight back last night to Gatwick. Flight 55 mins - Passport control, 1 hr.
Quote from: Mitch on December 03, 2011, 10:11:55 AM
Didn't see any Fulham in Amsterdam after the game, so many options so widespread. A lot were on my flight back last night to Gatwick. Flight 55 mins - Passport control, 1 hr.
You still made a wise choice.
Coach: passport control - 30 seconds. Travel - 14 hours.
My back, it's still in so much pain!
Quote from: ImperialWhite on December 03, 2011, 10:14:36 AM
Quote from: Mitch on December 03, 2011, 10:11:55 AM
Didn't see any Fulham in Amsterdam after the game, so many options so widespread. A lot were on my flight back last night to Gatwick. Flight 55 mins - Passport control, 1 hr.
You still made a wise choice.
Coach: passport control - 30 seconds. Travel - 14 hours.
My back, it's still in so much pain!
Worth though to watch live such an enthralling match! 086.gif
Quote from: Mitch on December 03, 2011, 10:11:55 AM
Didn't see any Fulham in Amsterdam after the game, so many options so widespread. A lot were on my flight back last night to Gatwick. Flight 55 mins - Passport control, 1 hr.
That was painful wasn't it? 20 desks, only three open. And a good few managers poncing around doing nothing. Welcome home? Wish I'd stayed out there
It's even more annoying when the brains of the operation has to turn up and suggest they open a few more desks and get the non-EU guy to check a few as well. He probably earns top whack to suggest the obvious like that.
I couldn't have done the coach, but then again, I won't get the coach to the midlands, let alone Holland.
The train back to Amsterdam was horrible. Absolutely hanging and it took forever.
From Dutch paper -
Five supporters Thursday in Enschede around the game against Fulham FC Twente picked up. A supporter of Fulham was arrested for sedition, four supporters of FC among others were arrested for robbery, sedition and committing violence against others, including policemen, police said.
About thirteen hundred supporters attended the Fulham match in Enschede. The police says that given the large numbers of supporters who had come to Enschede the day and evening were conducted fairly quiet.
However, there were just before the duel disturbances and vandalism near the stadium of FC Twente. Police also had midafternoon sets of fans at the Old Market divorce. The same happened around 17.30 am when in the lobby of a theater furniture were destroyed and windows of a bar or restaurant at the Coliseum were killed.
From TIFF -
the truth -- chinners bondage trousers, Friday, December 02, 04:15:23pm (cpc2-nmal8-0-0-cust749.croy.cable.virginmedia.com/82.43.194.238)
I have been speaking to a few of our rag tag fulham supporting army who have staggered home the worse for wear....By all accounts it did kick off big time before the game so much so that if it had happened in England it would have made the news....Contray to earlier reports it wasnt the fulham yoof who started....The older fulham lot were in a bar when a mob of dutch hooligans entered and told them to take there fulham flag down or they would rip it down....needless to say the fulham flag wasnt taken down ...and it kicked glasses,tables,chairs the lot flying in all directions..fulham chased the dutch lot out of the bar into the street where the FC Twente mob called up re-inforcements from another pub....fulham were now heavily outnumbered but stood their ground....luckily 2 coach loads of fulham youngsters turned up saw what was going on and steamed to help out.....it took about 10 minutes for the riot police to turn up and sort it out........No arrests, a fair bit of damage and a few bumps and bruises on either side.....Apparently FC Twente fancy themselves a the new big hooligan firm in Holland and previously had a go at Spurs and Arsenal with mixed results....apparently there hooligan element were surprised by how game fulham were.......These are the facts guys so lets here no more of this nonsense of trying to blame the so called fulham yooth for everything...
Quote from: SHADY1 on December 03, 2011, 09:58:02 AM
Thanks for the reports from those ACTUALLY THERE sums up the situation pretty accurately IT'S a shame the same little group of our fans always like to post the worst they HEAR about before gathering the facts.. I dislike fans like them as much as they dislike those they slag off.... I don't condone people who abuse innocent people and agree some get so smashed they don't know whats going on but they are young and experiencing these things many for the 1st time but they are Fulham fans and every club has a group like this we are lucky how small ours is...
SW if you'd looked closer you'd have seen me duck something just missed my head as the window crashed through...
I'm still out here .. only saw a handful of FFC fans still here there are so many bars its almost too big... I'm off to Ajax hopefully later to experience a Dutch game at the Amsterdam Areana ....I'll wear Fulham colours hopefully nothing will be thrown at me..
Oh yeh Happy belated scrumpy good seeing you in the ground....
Are you referring to me? I received first hand reports from my son and passed them on. I resent being labelled as a rumour monger... or worse. If you did mean me then an apology is due. :dft007:
There wasn't definitey a little charge at the station; we were then kettled up onto the platform and onto the train.
The Dutch I met in general were knobs, giving it the big one after the game. Provocative gits.
That Tiff reports funny and mostly a load of bull....
Even funnier me having to apologise for stateing facts because i was there .... maybe your son saw things differently from were he was so i'll forgive you for posting misleading 2nd hand imformation... i'd have thought after reading accounts from those there you are now happy to admit it wasn't Fulham fans smashing up bars but being attacked .... maybe you should now apologize to all those you were happy to wrongly tarnish ... you rumour monger :hook:
All our travel plans went like clockwork, very few delays or queues, apart from their hooligan element, I found the Dutch, as always very friendly and very helpful, all clubs have their morons, but even clubs like Millwall have decent fans, we came back to Amsterdam and flew home at 9:15 last night, Shady you a correct, thousand of bars and coffee shops, but still good to see quite a few Fulham still there, think it was Andy johnsons brother sitting a few seats in front of me on the flight back, he tried pushing past me onto the plane, but I was having none of it ;-)
Apart from the match which was total shite, still a good trip
Great trip; shame about the football - pretty much the story for all of the Euro trips I've ever done.
I currently average one red card for every trip I've ever done.
Still to see us score away in any of this seasons games home or abroad too.
Staying at home from now on.
Can I ask a question of those that were there and avoided problems, Shady1, Berserker, OW, SouthfieldWhite, Scrumpy to name a few. Were you openly wearing your colors? I only ask because, not being there, and reading various accounts from those that were and were not involved in problems, it's just a question that came to mind as to why some were targeted.
We didn't put on our colours until at the station going to the match but we'd bought new half and half scarfs especially for the match so Twente fans prob couldn't tell from that, but i would have thought our accents were a give away, although mine's west country and my mates is scottish which might have confused a bit
Quote from: Logicalman on December 03, 2011, 01:09:24 PM
Can I ask a question of those that were there and avoided problems, Shady1, Berserker, OW, SouthfieldWhite, Scrumpy to name a few. Were you openly wearing your colors? I only ask because, not being there, and reading various accounts from those that were and were not involved in problems, it's just a question that came to mind as to why some were targeted.
Not many colours amongst Fulham fans really. It's pretty obvious if you're English though.
Quote from: Logicalman on December 03, 2011, 01:09:24 PM
Can I ask a question of those that were there and avoided problems, Shady1, Berserker, OW, SouthfieldWhite, Scrumpy to name a few. Were you openly wearing your colors? I only ask because, not being there, and reading various accounts from those that were and were not involved in problems, it's just a question that came to mind as to why some were targeted.
I tend to keep colours to a minimum, as it avoids confrontation. But I walked to the ground with a group openly wearing Fulham tops, and we chatted to Twente fans all the way there and back.
I honestly believe that hooligans have an unwritten rule that they only go after other fans who are 'up for it'. (There are exceptions). Generally, if you're travelling in numbers then you may be targetted. If there's 2 or 3 of you, you should be fine. If you're in the middle of a crowd of 150, all chanting songs, then you're more likely to get targetted. But then there are more of you, so there's safety in numbers. It's a dilemma!
Quote from: SHADY1 on December 03, 2011, 11:56:46 AM
That Tiff reports funny and mostly a load of bull....
Even funnier me having to apologise for stateing facts because i was there .... maybe your son saw things differently from were he was so i'll forgive you for posting misleading 2nd hand imformation... i'd have thought after reading accounts from those there you are now happy to admit it wasn't Fulham fans smashing up bars but being attacked .... maybe you should now apologize to all those you were happy to wrongly tarnish ... you rumour monger :hook:
I would certainly take my son's word rather than yours. Although a long time Fulham fan he is not blinded by loyalty. Also I would accept Barra's post on Tiff as he is recognised as a reliable source and been around a lot longer than you. Anybody who has been going to CC and away games during the past 50 years can vouch for the fact that we have a fair number of louts as supporters. So nothing would come as a surprise
You come across as patronising; making snidey comments about other posters. Still, I have better things to do than continue this dialogue. bang head
Thanks for the replies to the questions.
I asked because I recalled back in the 70's - apart from the 'organized' fights - it was rare to be attacked unless you were wearing your colours openly. That is except whenever we went to Upton Park (poop hole of the East), when you were asked on the way back to the station what side you supported and if you didn't answer (correctly) straight away, then it was a good kicking - literally - for you and your mates.
I have to admit, since emigrating west in the late 90's, my chances of attending matches have diminished somewhat, though the ones I have attended since all seem to be more calm than they used to be.
I'm always grateful for those of you that post about matches on here, they remind me what I'm missing and bring it all a little closer to home.
Fulham fans in Enschede (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlVhmmccEkE#ws)
The problem English teams travelling have, is that on the continent it's still more commonplace and the English have a big reputation, so we are targets.
The police on the whole did a very good job in Eschede though, so it wasn't as bad as it could've been.
Would have been a lot worst if Twente had come as a surprise, not sat at the pub opposite all day.
Quote from: Mitch on December 03, 2011, 01:45:07 PM
Quote from: Logicalman on December 03, 2011, 01:09:24 PM
Can I ask a question of those that were there and avoided problems, Shady1, Berserker, OW, SouthfieldWhite, Scrumpy to name a few. Were you openly wearing your colors? I only ask because, not being there, and reading various accounts from those that were and were not involved in problems, it's just a question that came to mind as to why some were targeted.
Not many colours amongst Fulham fans really. It's pretty obvious if you're English though.
Socks with sandals, making a mess of wearing flip flops and a leaning towards beige tend to give it away. Guilty ?
I was thinking generally, fat, bald and badly dressed.
Quote from: Mitch on December 03, 2011, 05:17:54 PM
I was thinking generally, fat, bald and badly dressed.
Hardly a charge that can be levelled solely at the English. I know of a certain Dutchman who fits that description
Quote from: Mitch on December 03, 2011, 05:17:54 PM
I was thinking generally, fat, bald and badly dressed.
Oy. How did you know I was there.
On a more serious note, I was gobsmacked when I got back and read this thread. Didn't experiance any of the bother that has been spoken about. Did have a drink at the Irish pub before and after the match but no mention of any trouble.
To answer an earlier question I was wearing a sweatshirt, cap and scarf which clearly identified me as a Fulham fan But then again being fat bald badly dressed and old maybe I wasnt considered a target. 092.gif
Quote from: fulham pete on December 03, 2011, 06:17:30 PM
On a more serious note, I was gobsmacked when I got back and read this thread. Didn't experiance any of the bother that has been spoken about. Did have a drink at the Irish pub before and after the match but no mention of any trouble.
To answer an earlier question I was wearing a sweatshirt, cap and scarf which clearly identified me as a Fulham fan But then again being fat bald badly dressed and old maybe I wasnt considered a target. 092.gif
Well, that's me safe at any match then!!!! :54:
Quote from: Mitch on December 03, 2011, 03:50:54 PM
The police on the whole did a very good job in Eschede though, so it wasn't as bad as it could've been.
I dont agree with you on that point. My judgement on the situation is that the 50 riot polices with shields accompanied by 15 police horses that stormed in to the square in Enschede didn't calm us down forcing us in towards the pub. And the escort between the two concrete walls where they held us, could have been nasty.
If Twente fans started this than is ok for our fans to fight back and protect each other, but if our fans started this because they were drunk and had no reason for this than I don't support their actions there. I was at games where other fans verbally get you mad that is hard to control yourself and you do things you wouldn't normally do. But violence should only be used in order to protect yourself or your group if attacked by other fans and that is it there.
Quote from: ScalleysDad on December 03, 2011, 04:09:37 PM
Quote from: Mitch on December 03, 2011, 01:45:07 PM
Quote from: Logicalman on December 03, 2011, 01:09:24 PM
Can I ask a question of those that were there and avoided problems, Shady1, Berserker, OW, SouthfieldWhite, Scrumpy to name a few. Were you openly wearing your colors? I only ask because, not being there, and reading various accounts from those that were and were not involved in problems, it's just a question that came to mind as to why some were targeted.
Not many colours amongst Fulham fans really. It's pretty obvious if you're English though.
Socks with sandals, making a mess of wearing flip flops and a leaning towards beige tend to give it away. Guilty ?
Haha. World cup in Germany. Everyone had green combat shorts, white trainers and England shirt or expensive polo on. We did have a chuckle about that. More identifiable than the Dutch in their orange!!
You naughty lot you. missed all the prematch stuff, was still staggering around Enschede about 4am,had some dutch mug call me something, but there was 3 of us and 100 of them so just walked on. Got very stoned after that.lester when you read this, you've mugged us off for a oner,not very happy, i expect you to do the right thing.
Gozorich .... never heard of this Barra bloke don't go on tfi...sound like someone i should get to know as he's so reliable ... but then as he wasn;t there how would he know what went on...
and to answer the other question ... only thing Fulham i wore was a tiny badge with new badge & St Georges cross.... but as said its not about the colours and most the time those wearing shirts get less hassle as they aren't seen as equals by those looking for trouble.. non of the Dutch fighting had colours on if my memory serves me right
I've been a 'Fulham Yachting Type' (since seeing some graffiti on the Fulham Palace Road in the early 80s). Since then, I've worn deck shoes, no socks, sturdy canvas trews, a breton shirt (God, I hate fashion catching up with me) and a waterproof top from an obscure manufacturer.
Does this have mark me out English and / or a Cottager?
Or just a knob?
Quote from: Shredhead on December 04, 2011, 01:43:14 AM
I've been a 'Fulham Yachting Type' (since seeing some graffiti on the Fulham Palace Road in the early 80s). Since then, I've worn deck shoes, no socks, sturdy canvas trews, a breton shirt (God, I hate fashion catching up with me) and a waterproof top from an obscure manufacturer.
Does this have mark me out English and / or a Cottager?
Or just a knob?
You might be mistaken for OW or a member or the Ranelagh sailing club but it's what inside that counts!
Must say that I/we didn't meet any aggressive Twente fans. They were all friendly (especially since we spoke the language). No "you lost hahahaha" after the game either and we all wore fulham colours. You have hotheads everywhere I guess :)
Quote from: sipwell on December 04, 2011, 12:16:36 PM
Must say that I/we didn't meet any aggressive Twente fans. They were all friendly (especially since we spoke the language). No "you lost hahahaha" after the game either and we all wore fulham colours. You have hotheads everywhere I guess :)
Ditto here. Everyone we met was very nice. We went to the wrong platform after the game. Everyone was very helpful and we got no aggravation whatsover - they just pointed us in the right direction with a smile.
If it can be of comfort to any of you, the police had to fire warning shots after the game between Utrecht and Twente (in Utrecht). Twente fans were throwing fireworks...
Lol, hidden emoticon? "fireworks"
First post since I got back last night, met some great people in the bars including the couple from dundee, the guy from glasgow and paul and his gf from milton keynes hi to you all and i think the fulham support was outstanding, plus my new fulham/Croatian flag got it's first of many showings, coyw
