One thing is clear after performances like last night - if Jol is to stay then many must go to enable him to get the side playing his way.
Who will not be here come the start of next season? Some of those will leave with the clubs blessing and others will go because they want to move on.
January departures
AJ
Halliche
B H Riise
Summer departures
Duff
Zamora
Hughes
Davies
Dembele
Grygera
Dempsey
Stockdale
Dembele will only go if he won't resign.
There's no good reason to lose Dempsey and Hughes and Davies will likely see out their careers with us. Davies, in particular, will be more than useful if he gets back to fitness.
As I've said elsewhere the problem is that Zamora isn't doing it and the need is for one or hopefully two strikers to be brought in who are Prem ready.
Then all will be well.
Jol is dead set on getting the average age down and I think he may sacrifice good players to do so. Dempsey and Dembele I think willl leave by choice.
It will be interesting to see if Jol lets Murphy go and makes Hangeland Captain or if he needs the wider qualities he brings for another season.
Having older players has given an element of continuity and stability in the playing staff because older players are lesslikjely to be coveted and courted by others clubs and agents. I would like to see players like Davies & Hughes staying but if Jol brings in others & can't see them getting a game then he may just let them leave.
Quote from: White Noise on December 02, 2011, 09:09:31 AM
Jol is dead set on getting the average age down and I think he may sacrifice good players to do so. Dempsey and Dembele I think willl leave by choice.
It will be interesting to see if Jol lets Murphy go and makes Hangeland Captain or if he needs the wider qualities he brings for another season.
Having older players has given an element of continuity and stability in the playing staff because older players are lesslikjely to be coveted and courted by others clubs and agents. I would like to see players like Davies & Hughes staying but if Jol brings in others & can't see them getting a game then he may just let them leave.
Dembele will leave at some point, but I dont think Dempsey will. He is one of our best players and a good source of goals. He is the player that everyone always says will leave, but he never actually does.
Murphy is here to stay (I do think Jol really likes him and recognises his importance to the team) until he retires.
AJ will be gone in Jan, and BZ on his way out at some point soon. Neither will be a big loss if we can find the right replacement.
We are stale, and indeed need new blood. But that many changes could lead to us becoming Sunderland-esque. Nobody wants that.
Quote from: ClarksOriginal on December 02, 2011, 09:27:25 AM
We are stale, and indeed need new blood. But that many changes could lead to us becoming Sunderland-esque. Nobody wants that.
Sunderland are the product of continuous changes in personnel. We have had very little churn factor and now need new faces. Integration would be a problem, but so is playing with a team of old players who are not interested in playing for the new manager.
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on December 02, 2011, 09:33:47 AM
Quote from: ClarksOriginal on December 02, 2011, 09:27:25 AM
We are stale, and indeed need new blood. But that many changes could lead to us becoming Sunderland-esque. Nobody wants that.
Sunderland are the product of continuous changes in personnel. We have had very little churn factor and now need new faces. Integration would be a problem, but so is playing with a team of old players who are not interested in playing for the new manager.
Quite correct, but the proposed clear out of the above would lead to us signing near on 11 new players, as Sunderland did this summer, and then intergrating them as you said.
Quote from: ClarksOriginal on December 02, 2011, 09:37:23 AM
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on December 02, 2011, 09:33:47 AM
Quote from: ClarksOriginal on December 02, 2011, 09:27:25 AM
We are stale, and indeed need new blood. But that many changes could lead to us becoming Sunderland-esque. Nobody wants that.
Sunderland are the product of continuous changes in personnel. We have had very little churn factor and now need new faces. Integration would be a problem, but so is playing with a team of old players who are not interested in playing for the new manager.
Quite correct, but the proposed clear out of the above would lead to us signing near on 11 new players, as Sunderland did this summer, and then intergrating them as you said.
I agree, but think Sunderland are a different case.
Still, there is no point being afraid of change, because change has to happen.
Jol needs new players because the current ones cannot/will not play his system and are too old to use as a base for the future.
'Dembele will only go if he won't resign.'
Dembele will only go if he won't re-sign. Very important things commas you know. I don't claim any interior knowledge but I'd be very surprised if he did re-sign. QED sale starts here - let's start the bidding at £12M and see where we go.
I don't understand why he persists in playing, or at least starting with, Zamora - from what I've read, heard and seen he's shot of confidence and/or happiness. Of course it can't happen in Europe next game (though frankly if we can't beat Odense we might as well pack up and go home now), but a combo of Ruiz and AJ seems a good idea to me.
On a point of order - ain't no ,
Quote from: BalDrick on December 02, 2011, 09:57:46 AM
'Dembele will only go if he won't resign.'
Dembele will only go if he won't re-sign. Very important things commas you know. I don't claim any interior knowledge but I'd be very surprised if he did re-sign. QED sale starts here - let's start the bidding at £12M and see where we go.
I don't understand why he persists in playing, or at least starting with, Zamora - from what I've read, heard and seen he's shot of confidence and/or happiness. Of course it can't happen in Europe next game (though frankly if we can't beat Odense we might as well pack up and go home now), but a combo of Ruiz and AJ seems a good idea to me.
I would seriously think about a 4-2-3-1 that does uses Ruiz and Sa. When we played Chelsea, Sa and Ruiz were very much on the same page. With our other strikers being as useful as a chocolate teapot up front, they should be dropped.
The sooner we get rid of AJ in Jan the better. Such an average player.
Will be slightly happy when AJ goes (same as Duff), he's on high wages for little return, although he is a hard worker, we should be looking to offload his wages and bring in a cheaper, younger, fresher player with something to prove. Zamora, in his chance to play his way into a European Championship looks uninterested and ineffective, some moments of brilliance aside. Again, unfortunately I wouldn't be overly upset if we got good money for him and a replacement was brought in that could do the business. The majority of the rest (Halliche & Riise jnr), I would like to keep, just for competition and experience
The 4-2-3-1 style is something I'd like us to build towards and we have some excellent players capable of playing this, however currently we are inbetween sides, neither 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2 currently look effective. Ruiz will excel playing out wide in a 4-2-3-1, as will Dembele and Dempsey, however again, if offered good money for one of them and that money was wisely spent on something on a more than capable replacement then I wouldn't be too bothered.
At the end of the day, all players are replaceable. Look at Newcastle, most people inluding myself, thought they would struggle after offload Carroll (who at the time was in excellent form), Nolan (their captain and leading goalscorer too I think), Barton (fans favourite) & the left back whose name escapes me, but they have brought in young, fresh, focused players from the smaller continental leagues on much cheaper wages. If we could sell Duff, AJ, Zamora and say a prized asset like Dempsey or Dembele for silly money, we would have perhaps 20million+ which if we could get say Gignac cheaply and some cracking young French/Belgium/Dutch etc international players then I would think I'd be relatively happy with how we were looking, both for the current and the future
Quote from: BalDrick on December 02, 2011, 09:57:46 AM
'Dembele will only go if he won't resign.'
Dembele will only go if he won't re-sign. Very important things commas you know.
I was scratching my head for a minute or so too, but to be a true pedant I would point out that a hyphen is more important than a comma in this case :53:
I'd like to keep Dembele as I feel that we haven't seen much of his potential, and he's still getting to grips with the English game and his own skills.
Dempsey, AJ and Zamora can all bugger off come January as far as I'm concerned. Demps probably costs us more points than he gets us due to his greed. Yes, he can score wonder goals when their least expected, but he also scuffs so many chances when he should have passed the ball to someone else. AJ is sub-standard, no matter how well he has done in this season. Zamora is just a lazy and stroppy ****.
After every game I get more and more hacked off with Fulham and our players. Last night I was ready to tear up my season ticket and move across to Harlequins once and for all. Only to realise that my season ticket is made of plastic. bang head
Quote from: The Equalizer on December 02, 2011, 12:35:44 PM
Dempsey, AJ and Zamora can all bugger off come January as far as I'm concerned. Demps probably costs us more points than he gets us due to his greed. Yes, he can score wonder goals when their least expected, but he also scuffs so many chances when he should have passed the ball to someone else.
My word I thought I was sometimes critical of Dempsey, your for it now mate. 086.gif
Quote from: The Equalizer on December 02, 2011, 12:35:44 PM
Demps probably costs us more points than he gets us due to his greed. Yes, he can score wonder goals when their least expected, but he also scuffs so many chances when he should have passed the ball to someone else.
Deary me, are you for real?
Quote from: The Equalizer on December 02, 2011, 12:35:44 PM
I'd like to keep Dembele as I feel that we haven't seen much of his potential, and he's still getting to grips with the English game and his own skills.
Dempsey, AJ and Zamora can all bugger off come January as far as I'm concerned. Demps probably costs us more points than he gets us due to his greed. Yes, he can score wonder goals when their least expected, but he also scuffs so many chances when he should have passed the ball to someone else. AJ is sub-standard, no matter how well he has done in this season. Zamora is just a lazy and stroppy ****.
After every game I get more and more hacked off with Fulham and our players. Last night I was ready to tear up my season ticket and move across to Harlequins once and for all. Only to realise that my season ticket is made of plastic. bang head
I really felt the same, "a workman like performance", yeah so is painting a fence!, I felt sorry for those who spent good earned money to go out there and watch that dross.
Quote from: The Equalizer on December 02, 2011, 12:35:44 PM
I'd like to keep Dembele as I feel that we haven't seen much of his potential, and he's still getting to grips with the English game and his own skills.
Dempsey, AJ and Zamora can all bugger off come January as far as I'm concerned. Demps probably costs us more points than he gets us due to his greed. Yes, he can score wonder goals when their least expected, but he also scuffs so many chances when he should have passed the ball to someone else. AJ is sub-standard, no matter how well he has done in this season. Zamora is just a lazy and stroppy ****.
After every game I get more and more hacked off with Fulham and our players. Last night I was ready to tear up my season ticket and move across to Harlequins once and for all. Only to realise that my season ticket is made of plastic. bang head
Oh no EQ! Can you hear that? It's the rumbling footsteps of the DDL! (Dempsey Defence League) they're coming to get you!
Bring em on. He's a luxury player and a liability and I've had enough of him.
I don't care of he's the highest scoring Yank of all time, he's also one of the greediest players I've ever seen.
Quote from: The Equalizer on December 02, 2011, 12:55:36 PM
Bring em on. He's a luxury player and a liability and I've had enough of him.
I don't care of he's the highest scoring Yank of all time, he's also one of the greediest players I've ever seen.
Opinions are opinions and these days we're all taught to value one anothers and not be mean, but at some point there has to be a minimum level of cogency. Since this is a message board it's all about exchanging views, I think perhaps the onus is on you to convince us of this point, rather than for others to debunk it (just as if I stressed that there are green daleks doing the nightshift in Lidl, it would be up to me to convince people that this is not just the uttering of a madman). Otherwise saying something like this looks like it's just to get a reaction.
(although I accept that we're not writing for the British Medical Journal here...)
Quote from: The Equalizer on December 02, 2011, 12:55:36 PM
Bring em on. He's a luxury player and a liability and I've had enough of him.
I don't care of he's the highest scoring Yank of all time, he's also one of the greediest players I've ever seen.
Yeh, what a luxury those 13 goals were last season. We would have been better off if he wasn't around.
I have just heard there are green Daleks working the night shift at Lidl. Comes from a good source.
The squad is very cross and unhappy so I would imagine Demps will be on his way anyway. Along with Zamora,AJ,Etuhu,Et al,Etc, Murphy and all the others.
However I still look at our present side and Dempsey would still be the first name I would put down for the starting 11. He offers more than any other player. He wins free kicks and can look lazy. But compared to the rest of the side bar Brede,Swart and some of the kids. Haven't they all looked lazy this season?
I didn't see the game so can't comment on anthing that happened last night but I'd hang onto Dempsey at all costs. Other than Hangeland, Murph and possibly Baird, the whole of the rest of the team can go AFAIC. And frankly the manager too.
Oh yeah Ruiz, well seeing as he never plays league games despite being Europa cup-tied, I haven't seen enough to make a judgement. Kasimi I like a lot too, but again blink and you'll miss him.
We've all known for quite some time we're an old team that would need changing and I think that's why Hughes did one as he could see it would take investment very soon to keep us where we have been.
In terms of outgoings, I wouldn't be disappointed to see AJ or Zamora to go on current form and if we got 10+ for Dembele, we could look at getting some quick, young wingers in. Ruiz and Dempsey can play the middle role behind the striker striker or on the wings and having watched Ruiz last year, he can play the Dembele role.
With 12+ from the sales of AJ and Dembele, we could get some nippy wingers in and also a young striker. I think/hope Gignac will come and he certainly has a point to prove to himself and the French coach which would only benefit us.
We need to stick with Jol as keep changing the manager is killing us and he needs a change of personnel to make his methods work. Thanks for all the good times the old guard but in with the new....
The transfer window can't be helping Jol.
Without it I imagine that there'd be a fairly rapid player turnover but as it is he has to wait until January and then the agents will be playing their games with deals being delayed until the last minute.
It's very difficult to ditch players who have seen and done it all and doing so could be disastrous but after last night's tepid nonsense it can't come soon enough for me.
Except the time to do so always seems to be not quite yet. Could the kids cope against Liverpool? There's 6 points waiting to be had against Swansea and Bolton so best take no risks.
Oh and then its ManU and Chelsea.
I reckon Jol knows what he needs to do but it's not easy getting the timing right.
Quote from: The Equalizer on December 02, 2011, 12:55:36 PM
Bring em on. He's a luxury player and a liability and I've had enough of him.
I don't care of he's the highest scoring Yank of all time, he's also one of the greediest players I've ever seen.
i am one of dempseys biggest supporters and YES he is greedy and likes to shoot. Every single year he shoots more than most of the midfielders in the prem. He has seemed a little off this year and i think the whole team is pressing instead of letting it come to them. But who hasnt been a little off this year? I think the only players that have looked good are Hangeland and Baird.
Quote from: horse1031 on December 02, 2011, 03:36:10 PM
Quote from: The Equalizer on December 02, 2011, 12:55:36 PM
Bring em on. He's a luxury player and a liability and I've had enough of him.
I don't care of he's the highest scoring Yank of all time, he's also one of the greediest players I've ever seen.
i am one of dempseys biggest supporters and YES he is greedy and likes to shoot. Every single year he shoots more than most of the midfielders in the prem. He has seemed a little off this year and i think the whole team is pressing instead of letting it come to them. But who hasnt been a little off this year? I think the only players that have looked good are Hangeland and Baird.
I think you could even make a case of saying neither of those two are quite up to their usually high standards actually. Which leads me to believe it's an unhappy squad - unavoidable really with such a revolving managerial door.
Re Deuce's selfishness, yeah sure sometimes he should pass (or leave it - remember the pen against the scum?) but all goal scorers have a selfish streak.
I think Dempsey has become less greedy the past two seasons. He doesn't shoot from 30 yards out all the time like he used too. I wouldn't call him a luxury though, he gets stuck in although last season, Hughes had him playing much higher up the pitch than Hodgson did.
As for players that should go. I think it's time for Etuhu, Duff and Andy Johnson to go. Maybe Zamora as well but they've got half a season to prove us wrong. I also think Hughes may find it hard to regain his centre half position as well. I'm relishing the return of Davies though, one of my favourite players.
I said that last season and even the season before. We need a major clear-out. Ship out players like Murphy, Etuhu, Johnson, yes, even Zamora if he continues to act like a little girl....
Keep players like Hangeland, Hughes, Baird, Davies, Sidwell if they are willing to stay. They give their all every time they play.
Not sure about Duff.
Sell Dembele if the price is right.
Build a new team with young (british) players. Sign some young and cheap Championship/L1 talents like Rhodes, Zaha, some players from the continent (Gignac, Brama, Chadli), sign O'Hara if Wolves go down and integrate the excellent young players we have. McKinlay is raving about the youngsters, so why not give them a chance? Trotta, FREI (!), Kasami, Donegan, Kacaniklic, Dalla Valle.
This is why I like Steve Bruce: He played the likes of Colback, Welbeck, Noble, Wickham, Meyler.
Every new manager at Fulham said that Fulham needs to get younger? What did actually happen? Not much: Our average age yesterday was 30.8 yrs. That's just shocking.
And btw: Dempsey has to stay.
offensively i think dempsey has looked alright but he is lacking in the defensive side of the ball. we all say how bad Riise has been playing but it doesnt help when he has no cover on the wing. And when Dempsey or whoever is out on the left comes back he doesnt know to take the outside guy or take the person streaking behind him.
'I said that last season and even the season before. We need a major clear-out. Ship out players like Murphy, Etuhu, Johnson, yes, even Zamora if he continues to act like a little girl....'
Fact is, Zamora's value is falling by the day - genuinely think we could get a few quid for him now - MO'N always gets cash when he starts a new job for a start. Same applies for AJ. Murph, well I'd keep him but nobody's going to pay anything for him.
'Keep players like Hangeland, Hughes, Baird, Davies, Sidwell if they are willing to stay. They give their all every time they play.'
Nobody's going to give us anything for Simon or Hughes, on that basis keep. Rest I wouldn't want to leave.
'Not sure about Duff.'
Again nobody's going to give us much for him, if anything. But he's falling fast from his previous position as one of my fave players.
'Sell Dembele if the price is right'
Absolutely - provided he won't extend. For all we know he will once all the dead wood (see above) has gone.
'And btw: Dempsey has to stay.'
Don't you get bored of being right?
Quote from: White Noise on December 02, 2011, 08:54:01 AM
One thing is clear after performances like last night - if Jol is to stay then many must go to enable him to get the side playing his way.
Who will not be here come the start of next season? Some of those will leave with the clubs blessing and others will go because they want to move on.
January departures
AJ
Halliche
B H Riise
Summer departures
Duff
Zamora
Hughes
Davies
Dembele
Grygera
Dempsey
Stockdale
Be surprised to see Davies leave, fee would be negligible given his injury and he has until Summer 2013 on his contract I believe.
Not sure Stockdale deserves to be on that list.
I expected him to stick around and take the number 1 shirt. It's not as if he is one of the old crew.
Quote from: DukeTyrion on December 02, 2011, 05:00:09 PM
Not sure Stockdale deserves to be on that list.
I expected him to stick around and take the number 1 shirt. It's not as if he is one of the old crew.
Same goes for Dempsey and Hughes? Why would they leave? Both under contract until 2013 and no need to allow them to leave. Consistent performers.
Quote from: os5889 on December 02, 2011, 04:56:07 PM
Quote from: White Noise on December 02, 2011, 08:54:01 AM
One thing is clear after performances like last night - if Jol is to stay then many must go to enable him to get the side playing his way.
Who will not be here come the start of next season? Some of those will leave with the clubs blessing and others will go because they want to move on.
January departures
AJ
Halliche
B H Riise
Summer departures
Duff
Zamora
Hughes
Davies
Dembele
Grygera
Dempsey
Stockdale
Be surprised to see Davies leave, fee would be negligible given his injury and he has until Summer 2013 on his contract I believe.
Digger got himself a nice contract when our management team was Welsh :)
For me the only definites on the outs would be:
AJ - Contract related
Zamora - Happiness related
The maybes
Dembele - Silly fee and cash in while he has some length on his contract
Etuhu - If Sidwell immediately displaces him upon his return
I cant see the value the sale of any other players would add, could we get anything better and as much a good fit for the fee + wages of the current squad. Getting caught up with average ages is a tad dangerous. Im all for yoof but lets not do anything silly....
Quote from: Jack Fulham on December 02, 2011, 05:10:08 PM
Quote from: os5889 on December 02, 2011, 04:56:07 PM
Quote from: White Noise on December 02, 2011, 08:54:01 AM
One thing is clear after performances like last night - if Jol is to stay then many must go to enable him to get the side playing his way.
Who will not be here come the start of next season? Some of those will leave with the clubs blessing and others will go because they want to move on.
January departures
AJ
Halliche
B H Riise
Summer departures
Duff
Zamora
Hughes
Davies
Dembele
Grygera
Dempsey
Stockdale
Be surprised to see Davies leave, fee would be negligible given his injury and he has until Summer 2013 on his contract I believe.
Digger got himself a nice contract when our management team was Welsh :)
That he did, and it was thoroughly deserved.
Additionally as the contract was publicised on 16th August 11 days after Hughes joined I'm pretty sure the deal would have been in place from Roy's regime and the new manager needed to rubber stamp it.
If that was a suggestion that he got a contract on account of his shared ancestry Im worried.
Additionally Davies is happy, when I met him back home a few months ago he was happy at Fulham and doesnt want to leave.
On that note I'd add the club cant make him leave and I expect he'll probably be here for a while to come :dft009:
Quote from: os5889 on December 02, 2011, 05:14:01 PM
For me the only definites on the outs would be:
AJ - Contract related
Zamora - Happiness related
The maybes
Dembele - Silly fee and cash in while he has some length on his contract
Etuhu - If Sidwell immediately displaces him upon his return
I cant see the value the sale of any other players would add, could we get anything better and as much a good fit for the fee + wages of the current squad. Getting caught up with average ages is a tad dangerous. Im all for yoof but lets not do anything silly....
Didn't realise when I was drinking with you in the Southern Belle you're so sensible! Agree completely, in addition selling Dempsey is one of the stupidest ideas I've read on here for a while.
Get a very large skip in and dump a few of the overtired, dead wood, journeymen in it...
Let me steal a quote (and only a couple of words have been changed :022:) in regards to Dempsey's 'greedy' nature;
'Greed for a lack of a better word is good. Greed is right. Greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed in all of its' forms; greed for life, for money, for love, for knowledge, and for goals has marked the upward surge of mankind. Greed, you mark my words will not only save our Premier League standing, but that other malfunctioning unit known as the Fulham frontline, thank you'.
Gekko?
Quote from: BalDrick on December 02, 2011, 07:36:01 PM
Gekko?
The little special one czech kid we signed (Gecov)
No mate, Gordon Gekko - Wall Street film.
Quote from: BalDrick on December 02, 2011, 07:56:09 PM
No mate, Gordon Gekko - Wall Street film.
Had my Fulham hat on! To think thats one of my favourite films... The shame!
this is the line in the sand,if we don't clear out now next season we could be in a hell of a lot more trouble than we are now.
As for the Dempsey question he seems to be playing without a plan,if Jol hasn't got a plan for him cash in and sell
AJ get rid first chance we get
Zamora-doesn't score enough goals never has,very moody,possibly a trouble maker in the dressing room-sell
Duff,not getting any younger,sell
Etuhu-sell
Dembele-he he wants to stay then stay,if he doesn't as long as we get big money, fine
Riise-both of them,one can't get in the team and the other we wish he didn't-sell sell sell
Halliche-never gets his chance-sell
and the money this provides must be invested straight back into the team,and I mean the first 11 here rather than the squad
Quote from: Rambling_Syd_Rumpo on December 02, 2011, 08:58:24 PM
this is the line in the sand,if we don't clear out now next season we could be in a hell of a lot more trouble than we are now.
As for the Dempsey question he seems to be playing without a plan,if Jol hasn't got a plan for him cash in and sell
AJ get rid first chance we get
Zamora-doesn't score enough goals never has,very moody,possibly a trouble maker in the dressing room-sell
Duff,not getting any younger,sell
Etuhu-sell
Dembele-he he wants to stay then stay,if he doesn't as long as we get big money, fine
Riise-both of them,one can't get in the team and the other we wish he didn't-sell sell sell
Halliche-never gets his chance-sell
and the money this provides must be invested straight back into the team,and I mean the first 11 here rather than the squad
Its all good and well saying sell, but what players can you suggest to get it at the sale price of the above and on the Fulham wage structure?
Im getting frustrated with all this outcry and screaming to show them all the door but can anyone actually suggest a like for like replacement for any player shown the door at the price we'd get and the wages we pay?? Just screaming out out out without an argument is, backing up, rationale or proactive suggestions isnt an argument is just noise!
NB. This wasn't meant to be aimed at any one person in particular, I'd just like to know what else we could feasibly do with our squad as opposed to the cut throat off with their heads strategy....
isn't that what the managers for?
there will be names floating about that Jol has scouted out that nobody has heard of ie Dembele,Hangeland and to a lesser extent Ruiz
the thing is if the player has a reputation he will be too expensive for us,but there are enough uncut diamonds out there for a team like us with a good scouting network and a bit of luck, to find :clap_hands:
Quote from: Rambling_Syd_Rumpo on December 02, 2011, 09:44:17 PM
isn't that what the managers for?
there will be names floating about that Jol has scouted out that nobody has heard of ie Dembele,Hangeland and to a lesser extent Ruiz
the thing is if the player has a reputation he will be too expensive for us,but there are enough uncut diamonds out there for a team like us with a good scouting network and a bit of luck, to find :clap_hands:
Finding one diamond like Hangeland (under Hodgson) and Dembele (under Hughes) is hard enough, chopping 6-10 players and hoping to find 6-10 gems is utterly unrealistic.
Changing the team so quickly would be madness, look at how bad Sunderland look and they were verifiably good before the revolution, what happens if we have one starting off a struggling side?!
1 or 2 in January, another few in the summer, hopefully noone expects 8 outs in January, if they are I suspect they are QPR fans hoping for our quick exit from the league.
I don't think anyone really expects a mass exodus in January, but the team needs a shake up, so i would hope the club have at least four targets to get in and we rid ourselves of three of the old core.
There have been plenty of names mentioned in here, from press links to players recommended by some of us. A central midfielder and two out and out strikers are a must.
Don't forget we have some good youngsters coming through.
Quote from: MJG on December 02, 2011, 10:03:59 PM
I don't think anyone really expects a mass exodus in January, but the team needs a shake up, so i would hope the club have at least four targets to get in and we rid ourselves of three of the old core.
There have been plenty of names mentioned in here, from press links to players recommended by some of us. A central midfielder and two out and out strikers are a must.
CM we have Etuhu, Murphy, Sidwell, Kasami and Gecov. Not bad players to have, I'd stick with that until the end of the season.
The links for forward players are promising, Im hoping AJ either signs a new deal and if not we should definately look to offload him and that we can find some way of strengthening up top.
Verdict is still out on Zamora, we have a massive December and it will make or break his Fulham and England career.
Summer is too late,we have put this off for at least the last 2 years,the bullet has to be bitten now,playing in the championship full of regrets is the last thing any of us wish to see.
Anyhow it's only 3 first teamers,the rest are squad players-we need to lose the squad players and sign genuine first teamers
Quote from: Burt on December 02, 2011, 10:08:03 PM
Don't forget we have some good youngsters coming through.
The only youngsters I've seen anything of that based on current opportunities and performances coming through that stand to make any significant impact this season are Briggs and Frei, both of whom have shown attacking strength but a tactical naivety and inability to provide defensive support.
I think this season may be one 2 early for them but agree they have promising futures.
The rest, Im not so sure of... If they offered something special for this year, we'd have seen them by now wouldn't we?
Quote from: Rambling_Syd_Rumpo on December 02, 2011, 10:09:27 PM
Summer is too late,we have put this off for at least the last 2 years,the bullet has to be bitten now,playing in the championship full of regrets is the last thing any of us wish to see.
Anyhow it's only 3 first teamers,the rest are squad players-we need to lose the squad players and sign genuine first teamers
We'll have to agree to disagree, I hope Jol doesnt go all Bruce and have a mass turnaround as if we did I think we'd end up relegated. I may be wrong thats just my gut feeling about the matter.
The current squad has been good enough to draw with City, Twente, Arsenal and give Everton and Spurs a run for their money, Its not as weak as everyone thinks....
I'm surprised that Dempsey didn't leave in the summer, to tell the truth. I fully expect him to go in either January or next summer at the latest.
I wish I could believe that JAR would go in January, but we're stuck with him for the entirety of his contract and as long as Jol is gaffer. He was a HUGE mistake, but Jol can't admit that his signature signing was a flop.
The CM area is any two from Etuhu, Murphy, Sidwell and Gecov.Kasami has played maybe 30 mins all season in that role. Gecov played against Chelsea. Jol does not seem to want/trust him to play at all in the lge.
Murphy is still important to us but the problem is that he is far too important. We are too slow and need someone with energy and fresh ideas.We play like him..pedestrian.
Johnson can go and i would not give him a new contract, his time has gone.
BZ i would keep at least till the summer but he needs a rival or two for his place.
Quote from: MJG on December 02, 2011, 10:20:18 PM
The CM area is any two from Etuhu, Murphy, Sidwell and Gecov.Kasami has played maybe 30 mins all season in that role. Gecov played against Chelsea. Jol does not seem to want/trust him to play at all in the lge.
Murphy is still important to us but the problem is that he is far too important. We are too slow and need someone with energy and fresh ideas.We play like him..pedestrian.
Johnson can go and i would not give him a new contract, his time has gone.
BZ i would keep at least till the summer but he needs a rival or two for his place.
We forgot Baird in the midfield...
Verdict still out on Gecov, hope he can make it, he was good in the U21 Euros but is a bit of a stick insect.
Problem is, any team below the top 6 would love someone who can play a flighted ball like Murphy and control a game like he does, he may be slow but he's more often than not controlled the game.
Also with Dixon getting back to match fitness, confidence and sharpness he's taking a lot of the burden off Murphy allowing him to play 90 minutes rather than 60 as with Sidwell and Kasami.
A case of the machine being more than the sum of its parts.
Jol has plans in place judging by his signings for the end of Murphy and Etuhu's days, transition will however have to be carefully managed and at the moment whats being tried isn't working!
Do you really think that the clear out will be in January ??? wouldn't Jol wait until the summer ??
He says we have a small squad ...didn't he ??
There really is no rhyme or reason to Mr Jol is there ???
I'm smiling that Zamora seemed to be okay for us when he was in the international wilderness. Now that he's being seriously considered for Euro 2012, he's rubbish and must go. I sometimes wonder if I'm watching the same Fulham as other folks are.
I firmly believe that had Roy stayed, there would have been a huge broom in the summer of 2010 [as there was in the summer of 2009, if you'll remember]. Similarly, if MAF hadn't shoved Hughes out the door, I think there would have been a huge exodus this past summer as well. We have to have the same gaffer for 2.5-3 seasons in order for the squad to be made over in a coherent fashion. There were STILL players of Fulham's books that Roy inherited and would have loved to jettison. As much as I believe that Jol is inferior to his two predecessors, I think we HAVE to hang on to him for the next 2.5 seasons if Fulham is going to complete a transition to a younger functioning outfit.
By the way, I think all this conjecture based upon certain players being bad apples, sulking, and forming cliques is precious and silly. People are performing below standard, but I don't think that they're doing so because they're having a little pout. The things you read on here sometimes ... I just don't know.
Why do you keep saying Kasami, he has hardly played next to Murphy if at all. As for Baird again jol used him in the Chelsea game only. Im not against Baird playing in that role just don't think Jol wants it.
Quote from: os5889 on December 02, 2011, 10:14:14 PM
Quote from: Rambling_Syd_Rumpo on December 02, 2011, 10:09:27 PM
Summer is too late,we have put this off for at least the last 2 years,the bullet has to be bitten now,playing in the championship full of regrets is the last thing any of us wish to see.
Anyhow it's only 3 first teamers,the rest are squad players-we need to lose the squad players and sign genuine first teamers
We'll have to agree to disagree, I hope Jol doesnt go all Bruce and have a mass turnaround as if we did I think we'd end up relegated. I may be wrong thats just my gut feeling about the matter.
The current squad has been good enough to draw with City, Twente, Arsenal and give Everton and Spurs a run for their money, Its not as weak as everyone thinks....
and we are 3 points of the relegation places in December and in the next 6 weeks we have to face Liverpool,Man U,Arsenal and Chelsea,if results go against us we will be in the bottom three at Christmas fp.gif fp.gif
Quote from: Rambling_Syd_Rumpo on December 02, 2011, 10:33:45 PM
Quote from: os5889 on December 02, 2011, 10:14:14 PM
Quote from: Rambling_Syd_Rumpo on December 02, 2011, 10:09:27 PM
Summer is too late,we have put this off for at least the last 2 years,the bullet has to be bitten now,playing in the championship full of regrets is the last thing any of us wish to see.
Anyhow it's only 3 first teamers,the rest are squad players-we need to lose the squad players and sign genuine first teamers
We'll have to agree to disagree, I hope Jol doesnt go all Bruce and have a mass turnaround as if we did I think we'd end up relegated. I may be wrong thats just my gut feeling about the matter.
The current squad has been good enough to draw with City, Twente, Arsenal and give Everton and Spurs a run for their money, Its not as weak as everyone thinks....
and we are 3 points of the relegation places in December and in the next 6 weeks we have to face Liverpool,Man U,Arsenal and Chelsea,if results go against us we will be in the bottom three at Christmas fp.gif fp.gif
good thing Christmas is only four weeks away then, eh? :011:
HD the team we put out yesterday was 30.8 years old on average. We can't afford to wait another year or two to shake things up. Its a long season and injury are taking there toll on some of them.
As for BZ he has been poor for 90% of the season. Forget England that has nothing to do with it, he is playing the poorest he has since he arrived.
Quote from: HatterDon on December 02, 2011, 10:38:03 PM
Quote from: Rambling_Syd_Rumpo on December 02, 2011, 10:33:45 PM
Quote from: os5889 on December 02, 2011, 10:14:14 PM
Quote from: Rambling_Syd_Rumpo on December 02, 2011, 10:09:27 PM
Summer is too late,we have put this off for at least the last 2 years,the bullet has to be bitten now,playing in the championship full of regrets is the last thing any of us wish to see.
Anyhow it's only 3 first teamers,the rest are squad players-we need to lose the squad players and sign genuine first teamers
We'll have to agree to disagree, I hope Jol doesnt go all Bruce and have a mass turnaround as if we did I think we'd end up relegated. I may be wrong thats just my gut feeling about the matter.
The current squad has been good enough to draw with City, Twente, Arsenal and give Everton and Spurs a run for their money, Its not as weak as everyone thinks....
and we are 3 points of the relegation places in December and in the next 6 weeks we have to face Liverpool,Man U,Arsenal and Chelsea,if results go against us we will be in the bottom three at Christmas fp.gif fp.gif
good thing Christmas is only four weeks away then, eh? :011:
I knew that wouldn't get past you :dft012:
Quote from: Rambling_Syd_Rumpo on December 02, 2011, 10:33:45 PM
Quote from: os5889 on December 02, 2011, 10:14:14 PM
Quote from: Rambling_Syd_Rumpo on December 02, 2011, 10:09:27 PM
Summer is too late,we have put this off for at least the last 2 years,the bullet has to be bitten now,playing in the championship full of regrets is the last thing any of us wish to see.
Anyhow it's only 3 first teamers,the rest are squad players-we need to lose the squad players and sign genuine first teamers
We'll have to agree to disagree, I hope Jol doesnt go all Bruce and have a mass turnaround as if we did I think we'd end up relegated. I may be wrong thats just my gut feeling about the matter.
The current squad has been good enough to draw with City, Twente, Arsenal and give Everton and Spurs a run for their money, Its not as weak as everyone thinks....
and we are 3 points of the relegation places in December and in the next 6 weeks we have to face Liverpool,Man U,Arsenal and Chelsea,if results go against us we will be in the bottom three at Christmas fp.gif fp.gif
On the flip side, what if they dont??
Have to agree, BZ underperforming. Not only does he not look threatening in front of goal but nothing is sticking and he doesn't even seem to be trying to get to balls which look winnable to me. His value to the team is in taking the through ball and either holding up or laying off neatly for someone. At the moment, neither is happening!
I'm unconvinced by what we've seen of Sa to date and much prefer the look of Cignac or maybe even El Hamjoui, as we can't carry on the way we are and expect to thrive.
I know Danny's struggling against hustling younger oppo and Riise seems a spent force but, overall, I'm ok with our defence and midfield, as we have plenty of good cover options e.g. Briggs, Gecov, Baidinho, Senderos, Kelly, Frei, Kasami etc.
My worry is that with an ineffectual pair like BZ and AJ, on current form, they are making our midfielders look weak and also giving our star men like Dembele, Demps, Ruiz and Duffer a lean time too.
In summary, I want to see more of our bright youngsters like Frei and Gecov and bring in some frontline competition asap as I believe a speedy and potent striker will set the rest of our good players alight.
Millsy
Zamora's form definitley been off most of the season, he's not going to do his England career much good with performances like last night
Don,
1.) I still don't see why Dempsey should leave.
2.) It's not really about quality re Zamora. It's about the fact that Murphy, AJ and Zamora effectively seem to have as much power as Jol. Same situation that Alan Pardew had at Newcastle last summer. He decided to offload Barton, Nolan and Enrique and replace Harper with Krul. Will Jol have the cojones to do the same with the three players?
So umm who still wants to see the kids and thinks we need a mass exodus???
064.gif 064.gif
one swallow doesn't make a summer,I would still get rid of Zamora, AJ if he wont sign the contract and all the bit part players, that could be a total of 5 players out in Jan
Quote from: os5889 on December 05, 2011, 10:03:05 PM
So umm who still wants to see the kids and thinks we need a mass exodus???
064.gif 064.gif
well lets see, BZ was crap again. Aj i would not offer another contract. Duff will find it hard to get back, Murphy is 35 next year.
Its one game..you have to look at the bigger picture.
Its not 1 game though is it, good against sunderland, arsenal and liverpool, sure a blip v twente but I'm impressed that the older guys appear to have settled more into a jol-ly formation and look good again.
Up the whites
I've said this before and it needs saying again both after the Twente game and after today. Last week, Frei was barged off the ball several times like a paper bag in an underpass. And Briggs hasn't played for us much since early in the seaon for the same reason. As big as he is, he was dispossessed far too easily. It just doesn't happen to the older geezers.
So, as aged as it is, this grizzled team of 30.8 year olds is tough if somewhat pedestrian. But the big teams find them very difficult to play against! Ask Mancity, Spurms, Arsenewengeral, now Liverpuddle. The core players have known each other and played together for years. Discard that at our peril.
Youth is already here in the shape of Ruiz and Dembele. Trouble is, they'll be hard to keep hold of. Dembele is now playing for the shop window and a massive contract (elsewhere, I'm afraid). Jol is playing along as he probably thinks Ruiz can take his place next season - even January if the Belgian fetches the money we deserve.
The younger talent - Briggs, Frei, Gecov, Kasami - will wait in the wings, learning the game. They will be introduced very gradually and not en masse as against Chelsea.
In conclusion, I doubt we'll see as much change as most want. Jol will let trouble-makers go - Zamora, Johnson and Etuhu (if he splinters in the bench too much for his liking). (NB: Big D - in your century-long business career, you cannot possibly tell me you didn't see the damage caused by old stalwarts who in their reluctance to give up the limelight, their over-inflated packages and their waning influence spent large portions of their days slowly poisoning the well with their political shenanigans! I have little doubt that this is going on at Fulham).
In conclusion, change will be incremental; the two front boys to men will go sooner rather than later. We'll probably get only one or two oldies in to replace them along with a couple of untried no-name yet talented youngsters.
Nogood "it's the Fulham way, itis" Boyo
Quote from: os5889 on December 05, 2011, 10:03:05 PM
So umm who still wants to see the kids and thinks we need a mass exodus???
064.gif 064.gif
Me.
