Friends of Fulham

Surely if Stockdale is to have any part of our future then now is the time...

I think it should be an open contest between Schwarz and Stocky during Pre-Season, then let's see who deserves it.

As much as I rate stockdale Now Schwarzer is still better as it stands. Davids time will come and will be number one for us for 15 years

Quote from: FLETCHINO on May 27, 2012, 07:15:27 PM
As much as I rate stockdale Now Schwarzer is still better as it stands. Davids time will come and will be number one for us for 15 years

15 years? Doubt that. Doubt he'll be number one for one year.

I think Mark has one more good year in him. After that Stockers will be number one for the foreseeable future!

Quote from: Aldo on May 27, 2012, 07:29:48 PM
I think Mark has one more good year in him. After that Stockers will be number one for the foreseeable future!

Do you really think he'll stay as #2 for another year?

Schwarzer is the best man for the job. Stockdale on loan would be a good move for him and us. At the moment he isn't good enough to start though, he still needs to improve.

Stockdale probably feels bitter that he isn't going to the Euros. He is better than a few Premier League keepers and would easily make a number of Championship clubs.

Quote from: Mr_Moon on May 27, 2012, 07:49:12 PM
Stockdale probably feels bitter that he isn't going to the Euros. He is better than a few Premier League keepers and would easily make a number of Championship clubs.

And which Premier keepers might that be Mr Moon? Not sure I buy that argument. Championship yes, but not sure about the Prem to be honest.

Quote from: finnster01 on May 27, 2012, 07:52:47 PM

Quote from: Mr_Moon on May 27, 2012, 07:49:12 PM
Stockdale probably feels bitter that he isn't going to the Euros. He is better than a few Premier League keepers and would easily make a number of Championship clubs.

And which Premier keepers might that be Mr Moon? Not sure I buy that argument. Championship yes, but not sure about the Prem to be honest.

green for starters

Quote from: fulhamben on May 27, 2012, 08:01:52 PM

Quote from: finnster01 on May 27, 2012, 07:52:47 PM

Quote from: Mr_Moon on May 27, 2012, 07:49:12 PM
Stockdale probably feels bitter that he isn't going to the Euros. He is better than a few Premier League keepers and would easily make a number of Championship clubs.

And which Premier keepers might that be Mr Moon? Not sure I buy that argument. Championship yes, but not sure about the Prem to be honest.

green for starters

Roy obviously doesn't think so

A few managers in a row have now opted for Schwarzer over Stockdale.

If Jol thinks Stockdale is better, I trust him to make that decision.

If we had the next Banks in our hands I'm sure our coaching staff would have spotted it by now.

Quote from: finnster01 on May 27, 2012, 07:52:47 PM

Quote from: Mr_Moon on May 27, 2012, 07:49:12 PM
Stockdale probably feels bitter that he isn't going to the Euros. He is better than a few Premier League keepers and would easily make a number of Championship clubs.

And which Premier keepers might that be Mr Moon? Not sure I buy that argument. Championship yes, but not sure about the Prem to be honest.

Off the top of my head Mignolet, Kenny, Hennessey and Bogdan (both now relegated).

Quote from: Mr_Moon on May 27, 2012, 08:08:50 PM

Quote from: finnster01 on May 27, 2012, 07:52:47 PM

Quote from: Mr_Moon on May 27, 2012, 07:49:12 PM
Stockdale probably feels bitter that he isn't going to the Euros. He is better than a few Premier League keepers and would easily make a number of Championship clubs.

And which Premier keepers might that be Mr Moon? Not sure I buy that argument. Championship yes, but not sure about the Prem to be honest.

Off the top of my head Mignolet, Kenny, Hennessey and Bogdan (both now relegated).

Possibly Mignolet Mr Moon. Definitely better than Kenny. BTW, didn't Kenny get axed or did I make that up in a dream?

Kenny


And he's not worse than Foster, Al Habsi and some others, that's for sure.


A few managers in a row have now opted for Schwarzer over Stockdale.

Mainly because they thought Stockdale was still pretty much work in progress. Hodgson signed him from Darlington for a few quid and only as third choice goalie, so that's to that.

Schwarzer and if I had to pick a keeper who isn't at Fulham I would go for Paul Robinson.

Schwarzer. I personally don't see a future for Stockdale as first team keeper.

Schwarzer has said he intends to play until the Brazil World Cup in 2014.

Jol has said that Schwarzer is his no.1

Starting goalkeeper for next TWO seasons looks to be Schwarzer to me and Stockdale, who is probably regretting signing a new contract last year, is likely to go out on loan or be sold

Quote from: Mr_Moon on May 27, 2012, 07:49:12 PM
Stockdale probably feels bitter that he isn't going to the Euros. He is better than a few Premier League keepers and would easily make a number of Championship clubs.

I'm very annoyed that some unknown keeper has been picked ahead of him. He has Premier League experience.

Quote from: finnster01 on May 27, 2012, 08:12:09 PM

Quote from: Mr_Moon on May 27, 2012, 08:08:50 PM

Quote from: finnster01 on May 27, 2012, 07:52:47 PM

Quote from: Mr_Moon on May 27, 2012, 07:49:12 PM
Stockdale probably feels bitter that he isn't going to the Euros. He is better than a few Premier League keepers and would easily make a number of Championship clubs.

And which Premier keepers might that be Mr Moon? Not sure I buy that argument. Championship yes, but not sure about the Prem to be honest.

Off the top of my head Mignolet, Kenny, Hennessey and Bogdan (both now relegated).

Possibly Mignolet Mr Moon. Definitely better than Kenny. BTW, didn't Kenny get axed or did I make that up in a dream?

Not sure about the others but Mignolet is better than him.

Schwarzer for me.  I think Stockdale has shown some promise, but he's not ready to push the Big Aussie to the bench.

If Stockdale was good enough, surely he'd have been made number one by now?

May aswell cash in on him over the summer. Seeing as his english and young (for a goalkeeper) we'd probably get £10 million for him.

£2m tops

Quote from: Mr_Moon on May 27, 2012, 11:14:02 PM
£2m tops

Butland, who has only played in League 2, had been linked with QPR for £6 million. Surely Stockdale's worth more?

Quote from: FulhamFan2 on May 27, 2012, 11:55:01 PM

Quote from: Mr_Moon on May 27, 2012, 11:14:02 PM
£2m tops

Butland, who has only played in League 2, had been linked with QPR for £6 million. Surely Stockdale's worth more?

Don't know, there isn't really a yardstick for transfers in football. Butland's value has rocketed because of England. Stockdale has no international games at any level under his belt.

Swart is becoming slow and more prone to mistakes on crosses. His best days are behind him. Stockdale will simply move on and we will have to have a new keeper anyway. So Stockdale for me.

Interesting that people say stuff like how long will Stockdale wait to be no1. Their hasn't been any signs of discontent from him yet so I don't see a issue here at all. Stockdale seems perfectly happy being #2 to Schwarzer and perfectly happy to go out on loan. If Stockdale was pissed off i'd understand why you guys are worried he may leave but we've yet to see any evidence of that. Stockdale has performed fantastically when called upon but maybe he is overrated by our own fans but you know, i'd like to see him succeed but I'm just happy with the fact we have two great keepers at our disposal.

I'd pick Stockdale, but then I'd hear that it was only because Schwarzer had that one bad game that I was rushing to judgment.

It's simple. Schwarzer will stay. Stockdale will leave. Stockdale will become a regular Premier League GK and will be #1-in-waiting to Joe Hart. When Schwarzer hangs them up, Stockdale will just be hitting his stride, and we'll be deciding between our Hungarian, our Philippino, or a six-fingered Mexican.

The universe will not curl up at the corners if Schwarzer stays for two more seasons. He'll still be an excellent keeper, and he'll certainly be better than any English keeper not named Hart or Stockdale. We'll be in good hands [pun intended] with Tha Big Aussie.

IMO Stockdale will go out on loan again next season, Swalz will do another year, and then Stockdale will take over as no.1

If Hodgson thought that Stockdale was a potential England keeper he'd be in the squad.

His judgement isn't infallible but it's well worth considering.

Stockdale - the most overrated player who never gets a game since Kagisho Dikacoi.

Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on May 28, 2012, 10:19:24 AM
Stockdale - the most overrated player who never gets a game since Kagisho Dikacoi.

But he has played games and played well in nearly all of them. Swart on the other hand has been great up until a few seasons ago. Now he shows signs of being human and looks slow and flaps more than he used to. So the discussion is what is best for Fulham. Nothing more.

I believe Stockdale is premier standard but its a tough old world and we already have a top class keeper in goal.
Working on the idea that Schwarzer has at least one good season in him, maybe its time to cash in on Stockdale and develop another to replace our No1 some time in the future.
Having said that i don't suppose Stockdale's on big money so if he is happy to go out on loan for the season then we all win

How different do people think their skills sets are and do you think that one of them is more suited to the sort of play Jol wants to see from the side as a whole?

Joe Hart aside I don't think there's a better keeper in the Premier League than Schwarzer.

There are a few as good and obviously many younger but I think we should keep faith with him. Others think differently but I've seen no evidence of decline.

If and when we need a replacement maybe it'll be Stockdale. We won't actually know how good he is until he gets a run as number 1. My gut feeling is that he won't prove to be quite good enough - lacking in domination and as a result losing confidence. A good shot stopper but a top keeper needs more.

Quote from: HatterDon on May 28, 2012, 04:20:24 AM
I'd pick Stockdale, but then I'd hear that it was only because Schwarzer had that one bad game that I was rushing to judgment.

It's simple. Schwarzer will stay. Stockdale will leave. Stockdale will become a regular Premier League GK and will be #1-in-waiting to Joe Hart. When Schwarzer hangs them up, Stockdale will just be hitting his stride, and we'll be deciding between our Hungarian, our Philippino, or a six-fingered Mexican.

We're linked with Ochoa again??

Quote from: TonyGilroy on May 28, 2012, 10:56:43 AM

Joe Hart aside I don't think there's a better keeper in the Premier League than Schwarzer.

There are a few as good and obviously many younger but I think we should keep faith with him. Others think differently but I've seen no evidence of decline.

If and when we need a replacement maybe it'll be Stockdale. We won't actually know how good he is until he gets a run as number 1. My gut feeling is that he won't prove to be quite good enough - lacking in domination and as a result losing confidence. A good shot stopper but a top keeper needs more.

I agree with this. I think the latter scenario is made more likely by Jol's access to good young continental players. He will pluck another Tim Krul out of the pack and make us look at Stockdale in a different light when youth is no longer the deciding factor. Really hope for Stockdale's sake that he makes it as a Prem No.1  but there are far too many young Englsih keepers who seem to lose track of their early promise.

Quote from: Lighthouse on May 28, 2012, 10:36:35 AM

Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on May 28, 2012, 10:19:24 AM
Stockdale - the most overrated player who never gets a game since Kagisho Dikacoi.

But he has played games and played well in nearly all of them. Swart on the other hand has been great up until a few seasons ago. Now he shows signs of being human and looks slow and flaps more than he used to. So the discussion is what is best for Fulham. Nothing more.

I would contest that Schwarzer has not lost much, if anything.

What is impressive is that this season, despite having far less cover than ever before, he has looked solid and made few mistakes.

At the current time, Schwarzer is one of the best goalkeepers ever to play in the premier league. Stockdale has done well in spurts, but it takes more than being younger and promising to oust one of Fulham and the premier league's finest goalkeepers.

I agree with Tony in that Stockdale catches the eye with his shot stopping, whilst Schwarzer's all round game and confidence is excellent. As far as I am concerned, Stockdale is far from a guaranteed excellent goalkeeper than many suggest he is. He might turn out to be one, but I would not be surprised to see him fail to live up to the sky high expectations when he eventually becomes no.1

Quote from: White Noise on May 28, 2012, 10:51:28 AM
How different do people think their skills sets are and do you think that one of them is more suited to the sort of play Jol wants to see from the side as a whole?

Schwarzer's strengths -- apart from vast experience and toughness -- are his command of the area, his amazing shot-stopping skills, and until recently, his positioning.
Schwarzer's weaknessess are his decisiveness once he has the ball in his hands and his distribution skills. This past season he was a bit better at the latter, but the season before his clearances caught more defenders than attackers.

Stockdale's strengths are his agility, his quick decision-making, and his distribution -- especially the length and accuracy of his kicks, not to mention the fact that he has a clear idea of WHERE he's going to distribute, so there's not this "I'm going to hold the ball until everyone is covered and THEN I'll kick. The other advantage is his youth and the fact that regardless of how good he is now, he'll only be getting better over the next 9-10 years.
Stockdale's weaknesses -- whan compared to Schwarzer is his command of the area. I put most of this down to the fact that he's started for only about 4 or 5 weeks at a time. During those stints, he has performed brilliantly enough to be selected as the club Player of the Month.

I come from the school that says that you're better off getting rid of a player a season early rather than a season late. There's still a market out there for Schwarzer. If we wait until the continuing erosion of his skills is such that he is obviously NOT up to Premiership quality, then we'll be in the uncomfortable position of acquiring a new goalkeeper from a position of weakness.

For all of those who think I'm trashing Schwarzer because he's an Australian, let me announce that before I started typing this, I said 5 Hail Fosters, and a half dozen Waltzing Matildas.

Quote from: Mr_Moon on May 27, 2012, 07:07:23 PM
Surely if Stockdale is to have any part of our future then now is the time...

Why the hell would you replace a world class goalkeeper when he is still playing like a world class goalkeeper? Mark will hold that position until the day he hangs up his gloves, that's why Stockdale hasn't been given a chance.

Quote from: HatterDon on May 28, 2012, 07:08:51 PM

Quote from: White Noise on May 28, 2012, 10:51:28 AM
How different do people think their skills sets are and do you think that one of them is more suited to the sort of play Jol wants to see from the side as a whole?

Schwarzer's strengths -- apart from vast experience and toughness -- are his command of the area, his amazing shot-stopping skills, and until recently, his positioning.
Schwarzer's weaknessess are his decisiveness once he has the ball in his hands and his distribution skills. This past season he was a bit better at the latter, but the season before his clearances caught more defenders than attackers.

Stockdale's strengths are his agility, his quick decision-making, and his distribution -- especially the length and accuracy of his kicks, not to mention the fact that he has a clear idea of WHERE he's going to distribute, so there's not this "I'm going to hold the ball until everyone is covered and THEN I'll kick. The other advantage is his youth and the fact that regardless of how good he is now, he'll only be getting better over the next 9-10 years.
Stockdale's weaknesses -- whan compared to Schwarzer is his command of the area. I put most of this down to the fact that he's started for only about 4 or 5 weeks at a time. During those stints, he has performed brilliantly enough to be selected as the club Player of the Month.

I come from the school that says that you're better off getting rid of a player a season early rather than a season late. There's still a market out there for Schwarzer. If we wait until the continuing erosion of his skills is such that he is obviously NOT up to Premiership quality, then we'll be in the uncomfortable position of acquiring a new goalkeeper from a position of weakness.

For all of those who think I'm trashing Schwarzer because he's an Australian, let me announce that before I started typing this, I said 5 Hail Fosters, and a half dozen Waltzing Matildas.

How dare you put Schwarzer's name in the same sentence as that insipid catp!ss F**ters ! For shame...

Quote from: GoldCoastWhite on May 29, 2012, 05:33:01 AM

Quote from: HatterDon on May 28, 2012, 07:08:51 PM

Quote from: White Noise on May 28, 2012, 10:51:28 AM
How different do people think their skills sets are and do you think that one of them is more suited to the sort of play Jol wants to see from the side as a whole?

Schwarzer's strengths -- apart from vast experience and toughness -- are his command of the area, his amazing shot-stopping skills, and until recently, his positioning.
Schwarzer's weaknessess are his decisiveness once he has the ball in his hands and his distribution skills. This past season he was a bit better at the latter, but the season before his clearances caught more defenders than attackers.

Stockdale's strengths are his agility, his quick decision-making, and his distribution -- especially the length and accuracy of his kicks, not to mention the fact that he has a clear idea of WHERE he's going to distribute, so there's not this "I'm going to hold the ball until everyone is covered and THEN I'll kick. The other advantage is his youth and the fact that regardless of how good he is now, he'll only be getting better over the next 9-10 years.
Stockdale's weaknesses -- whan compared to Schwarzer is his command of the area. I put most of this down to the fact that he's started for only about 4 or 5 weeks at a time. During those stints, he has performed brilliantly enough to be selected as the club Player of the Month.

I come from the school that says that you're better off getting rid of a player a season early rather than a season late. There's still a market out there for Schwarzer. If we wait until the continuing erosion of his skills is such that he is obviously NOT up to Premiership quality, then we'll be in the uncomfortable position of acquiring a new goalkeeper from a position of weakness.

For all of those who think I'm trashing Schwarzer because he's an Australian, let me announce that before I started typing this, I said 5 Hail Fosters, and a half dozen Waltzing Matildas.

How dare you put Schwarzer's name in the same sentence as that insipid catp!ss F**ters ! For shame...

I think we have Barry McKenzie to thank for perpetrating the myth that Australians drink Fosters when in reality we would avoid it like the proverbial plague. When in England I didn't see any of my favourite beers but there again I was quite happy quaffing Abbots Ale.
As for goalkeepers, I hate to say it, but that bloke from that other club in SW6 is probably the best going around at the moment. He is almost, although not quite, as good as Tony Macedo