As a lifer, I have no doubt these are our golden years, but a post on another FFC board stirred a few deeply buried feelings.
In response to rumours of a Qatari takeover, someone stated 'Part of me misses the crap old Fulham that I grew up with, I have so many good memories.'
No matter how good the standard of Premiership football, much of what comes with it is tedious. I wouldn't say no to a huge Qatari funded transfer budget but it would move me further away from what attracted me to the club all those years ago. Anyone else harbouring such thoughts?
:58:
I think the key in that rumour is the fact they'd only have 49% - thus the Fayed family would retain the majority share. On the face of it, it seems extra investment without any of the fear that would go with a Citehesque takeover.
...an interesting thought SP, and one I can understand, but I accept fans who have followed the cause in the last 15 odd years will find incredible that some of us have fond memories of the good old bad old days when we were crap and had no money.
I cannot explain it other than a sense of being part of a small band of brothers in the face of adversity. I have no desire to see Fulham spectacularly fail and return to those dark days, however, if we ever did, it would hold no fears for me...
Where has this rumour sprouted from?
Quote from: LBNo11 on June 08, 2012, 08:41:22 AM
I cannot explain it other than a sense of being part of a small band of brothers in the face of adversity. I have no desire to see Fulham spectacularly fail and return to those dark days, however, if we ever did, it would hold no fears for me...
I suspect that's the division between the "old" and "new" supporters (labels added for nothing more than convenience). The old guard have been there, done that, bought the T-shirt and given it to a charity shop. The newer breed have been weaned on the "Premiership is everything" attitude of the modern era and so relegation and the associated implications represent a massive step into the unknown
I came to the party aged 7 in 1958 and for the next 10 years or so we were not dissimilar to what we have now become. MAF's money simply restored us to what we were.
That I put up with the crap years and kept going says something about me no doubt but being a supporter of a mid ranking top division club with a few exceptional players wasn't a new experience for me unlike those who got infected (God knows how) in the 1980s and early 90s.
The real difference is that over the last 3 or 4 years the club's overall management has become impressively professional. We're not being run by crooks, incompetents, amateurs or hobbyists any longer. Long may that last.
It originated from a message on Twitter yesterday - @MalawiMbuna - saying that something appeared to be going on at Fulham because there is a lot of activity and staff are working particularly late.
Fox @MalawiMbuna
Fulham FC being sold to the Qatari Royals? Something big is going down, long staff hours, giant hush hush #ffc #fulhamfc
Fox @MalawiMbuna
@UncleUgs "friend of a friend" at the club, been working all day everyday and not allowed to say anything (& therefore has done by silence!)
It was pure speculation that it might be because things are being prepared for The Qatari's. There is a thread on here from a couple of months ago detailing the original story of their supposed interest. They are of course the people who bought Harrods off MAF.
http://www.friendsoffulham.com/forum/index.php?topic=21894.0 (http://www.friendsoffulham.com/forum/index.php?topic=21894.0)
Hate to say it but the elephant in the room is nostalgia. Not just for the club but for bad old days that I thought I hated but compared to now were great. Information has become easy to find and has become rumour and Fulham are trapped between the stone of keeping the Cottage and keeping the club connected to the past and the future of pushing on and becoming even bigger than they are.
I miss the bad old days. But I don't want to take it out on Fulham. They deserve the success they will have.
Although AlFayed is the strongest link and I fear the change if the link is ever broken. Us old people fear change. I was fearful the day AlFayed took over. I need not have been.
Quote from: BalDrick on June 08, 2012, 08:35:26 AM
I think the key in that rumour is the fact they'd only have 49% - thus the Fayed family would retain the majority share. On the face of it, it seems extra investment without any of the fear that would go with a Citehesque takeover.
im no money man , but does owning this amount not automatically trigger the option to bid for the majority percentage of shares
Quote from: Lighthouse on June 08, 2012, 09:13:25 AM
Hate to say it but the elephant in the room is nostalgia. Not just for the club but for bad old days that I thought I hated but compared to now were great.
Also, many of the aggravating factors are wider than FFC's influence, traffic, costs, parking & of course the biggest loss of all, terracing.
Quote from: fulhamben on June 08, 2012, 09:18:43 AM
Quote from: BalDrick on June 08, 2012, 08:35:26 AM
I think the key in that rumour is the fact they'd only have 49% - thus the Fayed family would retain the majority share. On the face of it, it seems extra investment without any of the fear that would go with a Citehesque takeover.
im no money man , but does owning this amount not automatically trigger the option to bid for the majority percentage of shares
Not in privately owned companies but none of us actually understands the FFC ownership structure. An agreement to purchase 49% would also very likely address the remaining ownership. I actually can't see the point in buying a minority interest so I can only guess that that would be an interim arrangement.
I'm one of the "new" supporters, to use The Doctor's label. Before Fulham found me I followed a lower league team - both in person, and then latterly from my armchair. There were seasons in what is now called League 2, a couple of years in the Conference, a brief foray into the Championship, and then League 1 mediocrity. You certainly feel appreciated by the club, and the players, for going to matches during the bad times - and I personally think that this feeling persists at Fulham.
I am hugely against a multi-million takeover on the grounds that it may well lead to a stadium move, and an influx of players who care about their bank balance and nothing else. One of the delights at Fulham is seeing players who have been consigned to the scrapheap by 'bigger' clubs blossom, and unknown players arrive and make everyone say wow.
We're still only half a step away from those Cookie days where we would turn up, and have absolutely no idea whether we would be scintillating or shoddy when playing Middlesboro or Wigan for example. I'd like us to be another half step away, and have consistency, but I really don't want us to have someone investing half a billion and become the team that wins everything. I'd be bored.
who cares we're screwed when MAF steps down anyway right? no matter how much his son as been groomed for the role
Quote from: elgreenio on June 08, 2012, 09:36:31 AM
who cares we're screwed when MAF steps down anyway right? no matter how much his son as been groomed for the role
That depends on the abilities, intentions and motives of his son. No reason to assume the worst. Or the best presumably.
If he doesn't want to run the club himself selling to the highest bidder would be the obvious step.
as far as I can make out, this is a rumour just like every transfer rumour - it has no substance
I'm not sure that is the case. The mission statement must be something along the lines of 'Establish Fulham as a secure Top 10 Prem club that is profitable, self sustaining, plays regularly in Europe, has a ground worthy of a club of that seniority and a growing fanbase around the world.
One question is how long might we need MAF to stay at the helm before that is achieved. 5 years? The club certainly has a very good infrastructure and some excellent people working within it. Does MAF do much more these than let those people do their jobs and occasionally sanction large single items of expenditure (not that that is an unimportant role)?
I saw something on Twitter this week that was, I think, the mission statement of Schalke and it said something along the lines of 'To make involvement in the life of the club accessible to all our suporters from all backgrounds.'
That is the ideal for me. That, as Lighthouse says, we all feel valued by the club but also that the club create a model that means as few suporters as possible are priced out of actively following the club.
It could be argued we are ready for the next move upwards. We've no real fear of relegation anymore, we're fairly established as top half (or mid-table if you like). Can we genuinely expect to move up a level without some extra cash?
The crux, of course, is what would the Qataris get out of it? Unlikely not to be looking at any profit.
If it really is an investment by a Man City type buyer with limitless money and the aim being the prestige of a Champions League London club then I'm afraid that a new stadium is bound to be part of that package.
Quote from: BalDrick on June 08, 2012, 10:51:45 AM
It could be argued we are ready for the next move upwards. We've no real fear of relegation anymore, we're fairly established as top half (or mid-table if you like). Can we genuinely expect to move up a level without some extra cash?
The crux, of course, is what would the Qataris get out of it? Unlikely not to be looking at any profit.
In english football, no one makes money that is worth the time + investment.
Quote from: BalDrick on June 08, 2012, 10:51:45 AM
It could be argued we are ready for the next move upwards. We've no real fear of relegation anymore, we're fairly established as top half (or mid-table if you like). Can we genuinely expect to move up a level without some extra cash?
The crux, of course, is what would the Qataris get out of it? Unlikely not to be looking at any profit.
I've read some interesting articles about how delighted the guys from Abu Dhabi are about what Man City has done for their global profile and the respect they receive from people they deal with in a business context. They definitely think they have got value for money from the vast sums they have spent. It is an easy reference point for people when they meet senior people from the country and one of the first topics of conversation.
Fulham, even a successful Cup winning Fulham, would always be a lower key version of Citeh but would that be adequate for the Qatari's?
In terms of takeovers, we have been spectacularly lucky with MAF, who,viewed 15 years down the line has obviously shown regard for the unique culture and history of this club.
What's the chances of lightning striking twice? 49% purchases normally (as has been said) often are the precursors to bids for the controlling interest with all that that might entail in using the club's premier league status to turn it in to a 'cash cow'......or worse.... having the club used and fiddled with as a plaything for multi-billionaires who already have everything they need...except expertise.....?
Quote from: LBNo11 on June 08, 2012, 08:41:22 AM
...an interesting thought SP, and one I can understand, but I accept fans who have followed the cause in the last 15 odd years will find incredible that some of us have fond memories of the good old bad old days when we were crap and had no money.
I cannot explain it other than a sense of being part of a small band of brothers in the face of adversity. I have no desire to see Fulham spectacularly fail and return to those dark days, however, if we ever did, it would hold no fears for me...
Spot on, Band of Brothers fighting the big guys. If we beat Chelsea, Utd and QPR because we spent more than they did it will just not give me any where near the same satisfaction and elation I get when we beat them now.
If they come in to by converting the Debt owed to Mo into shares and allow the Jol youth revolution to continue then I'm all for it
ron
Our expertise, in the sense of 'how to run a football club' comes from Alistair Mackintosh, not Al Fayed, right?
I share your concern but while we have Mackintosh I feel like we're in safe hands.
White Noise
Do you still have those articles about Man City and how it gives the owners a good profile?
" Something big is going down, long staff hours, giant hush hush #ffc #fulhamfc
.... "friend of a friend" at the club, been working all day everyday and not allowed to say anything (& therefore has done by silence!)"
Working long hours? So they bloody well should be. Not only do we have half of the Eredivisie poised to join us, but if we don't get all those contract renegotiations done with we'll end up with no one but Schwarzer who knows where the ground is.
I do not want to return to the bad old days but I was lucky to see Haynes, Leggat etc and really enjoyed the 70s when we were a promotion chasing 2nd division team. Barret, Slough, Mullery, Best Moore Marsh etc... single and living in Putney. happy days. 092.gif
Quote from: cmg on June 08, 2012, 12:45:20 PM
" Something big is going down, long staff hours, giant hush hush #ffc #fulhamfc
.... "friend of a friend" at the club, been working all day everyday and not allowed to say anything (& therefore has done by silence!)"
Working long hours? So they bloody well should be. Not only do we have half of the Eredivisie poised to join us, but if we don't get all those contract renegotiations done with we'll end up with no one but Schwarzer who knows where the ground is.
Well even if it's not the Qatar investment, something must be afoot. Surely they wouldn't need excessive overtime to release a thoroughly horrible shirt?
Quote from: BalDrick on June 08, 2012, 12:53:18 PM
Quote from: cmg on June 08, 2012, 12:45:20 PM
" Something big is going down, long staff hours, giant hush hush #ffc #fulhamfc
.... "friend of a friend" at the club, been working all day everyday and not allowed to say anything (& therefore has done by silence!)"
Working long hours? So they bloody well should be. Not only do we have half of the Eredivisie poised to join us, but if we don't get all those contract renegotiations done with we'll end up with no one but Schwarzer who knows where the ground is.
Well even if it's not the Qatar investment, something must be afoot. Surely they wouldn't need excessive overtime to release a thoroughly horrible shirt?
wouldnt be so sure, it will take a lot of man power and working hours to try and come up for a positive spin to try and shift it. the lets take a photo of riise in black and white to show the shirt makes him look less special one, one just did not cut it for me
Quote from: ImperialWhite on June 08, 2012, 12:21:18 PM
ron
Our expertise, in the sense of 'how to run a football club' comes from Alistair Mackintosh, not Al Fayed, right?
I share your concern but while we have Mackintosh I feel like we're in safe hands.
White Noise
Do you still have those articles about Man City and how it gives the owners a good profile?
I can't locate the main one, which I think was FT or Bloomberg, but it profiled Sheikh Mansour and talked about his love of sport and how Man City has enabled him to raise the profile of the country and open doors in business. They see lots of good things flowing from being associated with top class sport and for the country itself to be seen as a home of the same.
Here are some of the others -
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2144359/Manchester-City-The-real-Premier-League-winner-Abu-Dhabi-United-Group-Development-Investment.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2144359/Manchester-City-The-real-Premier-League-winner-Abu-Dhabi-United-Group-Development-Investment.html)
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/05/14/sport/football/football-manchester-city-middle-east/index.html (http://edition.cnn.com/2012/05/14/sport/football/football-manchester-city-middle-east/index.html)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/may/13/manchester-city-sheikh-millions-triumph (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/may/13/manchester-city-sheikh-millions-triumph)
stolen from the tiff.. http://indepth.news.sky.com/InDepth/topic/Qatari_Royal_Family_And_Fulham (http://indepth.news.sky.com/InDepth/topic/Qatari_Royal_Family_And_Fulham)
When you have supported Fulham for 50 years through thick and thin and thin and more thin, it is difficult not to sound like a Luddite when warning against a mega rich takeover. I know MAF spent a fortune on getting us to where we are but if someone like the Qatariis take a 49% stake and pour in lots of millions it isn't because they think Craven Cottage is a pretty little football ground.
Of course there's nothing we can do about it except suck it and see. I for one would be very nervous indeed and if I had a vote(!) it would be no.
Quote from: Lighthouse on June 08, 2012, 09:13:25 AM
Hate to say it but the elephant in the room is nostalgia. Not just for the club but for bad old days that I thought I hated but compared to now were great. Information has become easy to find and has become rumour and Fulham are trapped between the stone of keeping the Cottage and keeping the club connected to the past and the future of pushing on and becoming even bigger than they are.
I miss the bad old days. But I don't want to take it out on Fulham. They deserve the success they will have.
Although AlFayed is the strongest link and I fear the change if the link is ever broken. Us old people fear change. I was fearful the day AlFayed took over. I need not have been.
Spot on Mr. Lighthouse! The good old days aren't good because the game was better or the players friendlier or the community tighter. The good old days are good BECAUSE WE WERE YOUNG THEN.
From time to time I remember going to Kenilworth road to watch 3rd or 4th division Luton Town with nostalgiac fondness. But when that happens, it's because I used to do so with my father-in-law who left us all in 1974. It's certainly nothing to do with the ground or the quality of football.
Quote from: HatterDon on June 08, 2012, 03:17:12 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on June 08, 2012, 09:13:25 AM
Hate to say it but the elephant in the room is nostalgia. Not just for the club but for bad old days that I thought I hated but compared to now were great. Information has become easy to find and has become rumour and Fulham are trapped between the stone of keeping the Cottage and keeping the club connected to the past and the future of pushing on and becoming even bigger than they are.
I miss the bad old days. But I don't want to take it out on Fulham. They deserve the success they will have.
Although AlFayed is the strongest link and I fear the change if the link is ever broken. Us old people fear change. I was fearful the day AlFayed took over. I need not have been.
Spot on Mr. Lighthouse! The good old days aren't good because the game was better or the players friendlier or the community tighter. The good old days are good BECAUSE WE WERE YOUNG THEN.
From time to time I remember going to Kenilworth road to watch 3rd or 4th division Luton Town with nostalgiac fondness. But when that happens, it's because I used to do so with my father-in-law who left us all in 1974. It's certainly nothing to do with the ground or the quality of football.
Wise words indeed. As exhibited for me (who prefers music to football by a factor of several hundred thousand) by bands from my youth reforming. Doesn't automatically make you 26 again. See also, in lonely moments pining for one particular girl I went out with for quite a long time. Yeah she was gorgeous, was being the key word I suspect, but I ended it for a damned good reason and even if I did run into her again, we wouldn't be early/mid 20s anymore, we'd be early/mid 40s with no stamina to do the things we used to do all night long. And probably not very many things to talk about. Still.
Doesn't stop me wondering from time to time mind...
I was just checking back to the original sale of Harrods to the Qataris and what was said then. It's clear that Mo had a good relationship with them at the time and he also remained in an honorary position to continue promoting the store; here's a quote from the 8th May 2010 BBC News report on the sale of Harrods: "He will continue to promote the store in the role of honorary chairman."
The other interesting thing is that Mo is said by the adviser that he used to broker the sale that he had specifically chosen the Qataris: "The sale, said Qatar Holding had been "specifically chosen" by Mr Al Fayed because he believed it had the "vision and financial capacity" to support the long-term growth of the store." "In reaching the decision to retire, he wished to ensure that the legacy and traditions that he has built up in Harrods would be continued, and that the team that he has built up would be encouraged to develop the foundations that he has laid." I think it's very credible that an ageing Mo is likely to harbour a similar ambition to help to secure Fulham's legacy for future generations.
Also add to this the fact that we market ourselves as an historic football stadium - which certainly helps us pull in the tourists - and this also could have some resonance in relation to us being a potential future target for purchase: "Sheikh Hamad Bin Jassim Bin Jabr Al-Thani, who is also Qatar's prime minister, said of the sale," "It's a historical place. I know it's important, not only for the British people but it is important for the tourism."
Bearing in mind their close links with Mo at this stage and a seemingly warm relationship and the fact that they have already been reported by the Mail as considering us alongside Newcastle, the above quotes add credibility to the current rumours, even though the most recent chat lacks much substance.
It's been great reading everyone's thoughts on this. I too, occasionally pine for the old days. The boisterous away followings, the demonstrations against the board, the whip-rounds for Fulham 2000, trips to Aldershot, Colchester etc. But it is mostly rose-tinted spec syndrome. Just by way of balance, I also remember...
1 - Wondering what the ground would look like full?
2 - Wishing that we could put some seats in the Riverside Stand
3 - Watching sadly as the Club I loved slowly went out of business. Very few people cared.
4 - Getting so, so frustrated that players couldn't do the simplest things (trapping the ball!) properly.
5 - Never being on TV
6 - People genuinely not knowing who we were
I was fearful and excited when Mo took over. He has done a superb job, and we could not really have wished for better. If we could guarantee that the Qataris had the same motives as Mo, then I would snap your hand off. But as things stand, I'd be happy for the Club to stay in the Fayed family for years to come.
