So where are we with our two keepers do we think this upcoming season? Stockdale for cup and games against lesser opposition? Mark for most premiership games? Or do we think Stockdale is heading out on loan?
http://www.fulhamchronicle.co.uk/fulham-fc/2012/08/02/stockdale-wants-to-battle-for-fulham-number-one-spot-82029-31530476/ (http://www.fulhamchronicle.co.uk/fulham-fc/2012/08/02/stockdale-wants-to-battle-for-fulham-number-one-spot-82029-31530476/)
"DAVID Stockdale is desperate to prove his worth during pre-season and stake a claim for Fulham's number one shirt.
DAVID Stockdale is desperate to prove his worth during pre-season and stake a claim for Fulham's number one shirt.
The 26-year-old has made just 23 competitive appearances for the Whites since his switch from Darlington in 2008, spending most of his time warming the bench behind first-choice keeper Mark Schwarzer.
Stockdale has spent some time out on loan at Rotherham, Leicester, Plymouth and most recently Ipswich Town.
But he hopes he can impress boss Martin Jol enough to force his way into his starting XI.
"I'm just trying to do the best I can during pre-season and show the gaffer what form I've come back in," Stockdale told the Chronicle.
"When you come in you've got to do the best you can, and when you've got someone like Mark Schwarzer in front of you you can't think you deserve to play because it doesn't work like that.
"I love the club and love playing for them so I will fight as much as I can until I'm told otherwise."
Stockdale featured 18 times for Ipswich last season before he was recalled to Craven Cottage after an injury to Schwarzer.
And the England international admits he would be open to a loan switch elsewhere if he doesn't get the nod between the sticks in SW6.
"You've got to look at chances to play," he added. "At the moment it's a crucial part of my career to play games and get more exposure and prove to people that I can still do it.
"I really enjoyed my spell at Ipswich last season. We were a little bit inconsistent, having started the season well and then went through a bad patch. I went for games and got things to do."
For me a goalkeeper has 5 main traits: Handling, Aerial Ability, Reflexes, Distribution and Communication.
For me Stockdale is equal to, and better than Schwarzer in all catergorys.
They both have excellent handling skills.
Stockdale however, seems to be a more authoritarianism figure inside the area, and claims high balls into the area well. Schwarzer has come and dithered before, but I think its more or less a tie here.
Reflexes- both have superb reflexes. Equal totally.
Distribution- major plus for Stockdale here. Schwarzer's kicking is dreadful to put it midly- so bad, we resorted to having Hughes do the goal kicks vs QPR at home. Stockdale is much more effective at distribution the ball accurately, and holding onto possession is something we need in our formation.
Communication- both seem to be very vocal and good at organizing defences.
For me, I want to see Stockdale to start the season and have a good 10 match go in the team. If he is good then keep him. If he's not that good, bring Schwarzer back in and panic for when Schwarz retires.
Quote from: ddeuce on August 02, 2012, 09:37:03 AM
For me a goalkeeper has 5 main traits: Handling, Aerial Ability, Reflexes, Distribution and Communication.
For me Stockdale is equal to, and better than Schwarzer in all catergorys.
They both have excellent handling skills.
Stockdale however, seems to be a more authoritarianism figure inside the area, and claims high balls into the area well. Schwarzer has come and dithered before, but I think its more or less a tie here.
Reflexes- both have superb reflexes. Equal totally.
Distribution- major plus for Stockdale here. Schwarzer's kicking is dreadful to put it midly- so bad, we resorted to having Hughes do the goal kicks vs QPR at home. Stockdale is much more effective at distribution the ball accurately, and holding onto possession is something we need in our formation.
Communication- both seem to be very vocal and good at organizing defences.
For me, I want to see Stockdale to start the season and have a good 10 match go in the team. If he is good then keep him. If he's not that good, bring Schwarzer back in and panic for when Schwarz retires.
I'd strongly disagree wit you here. I think Schwarzer is better in all aspects apart from distribution (not even close) and possibly reflexes.
I have doubts about Stockdale's ability to communicate effectively and command the area. Schwarzer is an absolute rock under high balls and leads the team from the back.
Stockdale has the talent, but for me, Schwarzer remains the better all round keeper.
Agree with Al Fayed's Chequebook.
I watch Schwarzer warm up before a game and he is incredibly light and quick on his feet. The contrast with Stockdale or Etheridge doing those same exercises is astonishing especially given Mark's age.
A key strength is the way he commands his area.
Schwarzer, in my opinion, is at least as good as any other keeper in the Premier League apart, maybe, from Joe Hart and still seems as good as ever.
Stockdale's time may or may not come at Fulham but I'd be in no hurry to replace Shwarzer.
Also agree with AFC and Tony, I wouldn't blame stockdale if he wanted to go find first team football, but think Schwarzer is better in every department apart from distribution
Quote from: ddeuce on August 02, 2012, 09:37:03 AM
For me a goalkeeper has 5 main traits: Handling, Aerial Ability, Reflexes, Distribution and Communication.
For me Stockdale is equal to, and better than Schwarzer in all catergorys.
They both have excellent handling skills.
Stockdale however, seems to be a more authoritarianism figure inside the area, and claims high balls into the area well. Schwarzer has come and dithered before, but I think its more or less a tie here.
Reflexes- both have superb reflexes. Equal totally.
Distribution- major plus for Stockdale here. Schwarzer's kicking is dreadful to put it midly- so bad, we resorted to having Hughes do the goal kicks vs QPR at home. Stockdale is much more effective at distribution the ball accurately, and holding onto possession is something we need in our formation.
Communication- both seem to be very vocal and good at organizing defences.
For me, I want to see Stockdale to start the season and have a good 10 match go in the team. If he is good then keep him. If he's not that good, bring Schwarzer back in and panic for when Schwarz retires.
You're kidding me right? Stockdale doesnt come off his line. Good shot stopper agreed but in the airel presences Mark is much better.
Quote from: Admin on August 02, 2012, 10:00:29 AM
Quote from: ddeuce on August 02, 2012, 09:37:03 AM
For me a goalkeeper has 5 main traits: Handling, Aerial Ability, Reflexes, Distribution and Communication.
For me Stockdale is equal to, and better than Schwarzer in all catergorys.
They both have excellent handling skills.
Stockdale however, seems to be a more authoritarianism figure inside the area, and claims high balls into the area well. Schwarzer has come and dithered before, but I think its more or less a tie here.
Reflexes- both have superb reflexes. Equal totally.
Distribution- major plus for Stockdale here. Schwarzer's kicking is dreadful to put it midly- so bad, we resorted to having Hughes do the goal kicks vs QPR at home. Stockdale is much more effective at distribution the ball accurately, and holding onto possession is something we need in our formation.
Communication- both seem to be very vocal and good at organizing defences.
For me, I want to see Stockdale to start the season and have a good 10 match go in the team. If he is good then keep him. If he's not that good, bring Schwarzer back in and panic for when Schwarz retires.
You're kidding me right? Stockdale doesnt come off his line. Good shot stopper agreed but in the airel presences Mark is much better.
Opinion admin.
Each to their own!
I hope Stockdale shows you all this season what I saw last season.
Quote from: Admin on August 02, 2012, 10:00:29 AM
You're kidding me right? Stockdale doesnt come off his line. Good shot stopper agreed but in the aerial presences Mark is much better.
agreed. Though I don't see Schwarzer as being as strong aerially as some in the thread.
No ones saying Stockdale isn't a good keeper or he won't be Fulhams No. 1 in future years, but this moment in time Schwarzer has to be Number 1, he's a bigger presence and gives our back more confidence
I have to completely agree with other sentiments (and this has no preference as he's an Aussie).
I don't understand the rush to push Stockdale into the first team, if he's not impressed Jol enough to warrant a starting position over Schwarzer then I'm happy with that, if Jol sees him, especially as to how he commands his area and marshals his defence, and thinks he's up to the job then I'll be happy, but if Schwarzer is still number 1 at the kick-off of the season then it means Stockers still needs to develop in order to surpass Mark. If that means another year out on loan, then so be it, in a key position such as keeper, it is not worth taking the chance (eg I believe United lost the title last season due to their keeping issues, we haven't got the luxury of giving away easy goals)
Regarding abilities, I think both keepers have excellent 'keeping skills, but for me, it's the non-handling skills which is the big difference, yes Stockdale has better distribution, but as a keeper he has to be one of, if not the most vocal, and able to easily read the plays and runs the opposition are making and communicating this to his defence. It is the ability to make instant decisions and passing this information onto his team, and unfortunately all of this comes with experience, and it is something I believe Mark is world class at.
At the back of my mind, I think to some of the hammerings Ipswich received, and then when United came to the Cottage, and although these goals conceded may not directly be Stockers fault at all, perhaps if his communication and reading of the game was better, he could assist his defence more and prevent the problem before it's a threat. Its all well and good making the reflex saves, but a great keeper is someone who is able to help prevent the opposition even getting a shot on target by communicating with them and helping their decision making due to his better viewpoint, ie player X is looking to play off your shoulder, or making a diagonal run behind you etc etc. Also, its about instilling confidence in his players, again, you could see the issues Man Utd had with De Gea in this instance, and I'm not sure Brede etc will be as confident with Stockers than they are with Mark
In my opinion the only area where Stockdale is better than Schwartz is his distribution.
I am sure that as time marches on, this will change, but I don't see the need to rush in to a change. For sure, give Stockdale the opportunity to develop these skills, e.g. cup runs, loan spells, but whilst Schwartz is the better of the two then keep him there.
I think Schwarzer has one more season left in him and he will move out the way for Stockdale to come through. I hope Schwarzer will go into coaching of some sort and help Stockdale achieve what he did if not more.
oztralian 000en.gif
I think its important that we don't let Stockdale out on loan.
Mark will start as number one, but you could see last year his standards were just slightly down on the previous years.
Age catches up with every player and once it does for Mark, them Stockdale should be straight in.
And no im not going to list any clangers Mark made last year, its his all-round performance dipping just slightly..maybe less than 5% but stills downward trend.
Quote from: Walsh on August 02, 2012, 05:29:02 PM
I think Schwarzer has one more season left in him and he will move out the way for Stockdale to come through. I hope Schwarzer will go into coaching of some sort and help Stockdale achieve what he did if not more.
oztralian 000en.gif
Very much my thoughts as well Walsh and I agree with CMG as well. Big Mark is still a damn good keeper and I feel he has the edge on Stockdale but his form has to start slipping eventually and I'm sure he'll hand over the gloves when the time comes. Until that time Stocky has to do everything he can to make sure he is the best option available when The Schwarz steps aside.
According to Stockers' own Twitter, he is in great shape. He says he is a lot fitter and lost a bit of weight. Having said that, the flying Aussie is still a great keeper. I'm undecided.
I think Stockdale's reflexes are superior, but his positioning isn't as astute. He was immense against Arsenal at home last season.
At the risk of bringing down the full force of wrath from the Aussie mafia :down_under: I have to say that last season was the second one in a row where Schwarzer's skills continued to deteriorate. His distribution, as noted, is poor and getting worse. He is more and more hesitant to move off his line under pressure, and he's not the shot-stopper that he was.
Where he excels is in his positioning and knowledge of the game. Does he have one more season in him? Certainly. But we'll have to be prepared to accept a third straight season of eroding skills. Stockdale is the right age to get a full run. In his two previous short term runs, he saved penalties, impressed everyone in his distribution, and was player of the month. HE is getting better each season why Mark is not the player he was three seasons ago.
And, as the baseball genius Branch Rickey once said, "You're always better getting rid of a player one season early than one season late."
Okay you oztralian give me your worst.
Last season Shwartz was still the better keeper by a long chalk. He really knows how to marshall his defence and the opposition are in awe of him.
Not the same for Stockers.
Regarding fitness, watching a 39 year old marine-fit man come down from a great height onto the back of his neck (as happened to Schwartz at Swansea), I expected a career ending injury. He carried on playing and was only out for a few weeks.
On the other hand, Stockers goes up for an innocuous ball, comes down on his ankle and is out for a while. Looking at his physique, he's overweight; I would guess he doesn't spend nearly enough time in the gym. If there's one thing he should be learning from Mark, it's how to stay fit through a regimen of physical exercise and diet.
Nogood "I wundered lonely as a cloud that floats on high o'er Mark Stockdale, isit" Boyo
Quote from: NogoodBoyo on August 02, 2012, 09:16:20 PM
Last season Shwartz was still the better keeper by a long chalk. He really knows how to marshall his defence and the opposition are in awe of him.
Not the same for Stockers.
Regarding fitness, watching a 39 year old marine-fit man come down from a great height onto the back of his neck (as happened to Schwartz at Swansea), I expected a career ending injury. He carried on playing and was only out for a few weeks.
On the other hand, Stockers goes up for an innocuous ball, comes down on his ankle and is out for a while. Looking at his physique, he's overweight; I would guess he doesn't spend nearly enough time in the gym. If there's one thing he should be learning from Mark, it's how to stay fit through a regimen of physical exercise and diet.
Nogood "I wundered lonely as a cloud that floats on high o'er Mark Stockdale, isit" Boyo
One of your VERY best, sir.
What has how they recovered from an injury got to do with their goalkeeping abilities? When has Schwarzer EVER saved a penalty? not one, Stockdale has because he is younger and has quicker reactions he is the future and having met him in the flesh , he is not overweight at all.
Quote from: epsomraver on August 02, 2012, 09:36:57 PM
What has how they recovered from an injury got to do with their goalkeeping abilities? When has Schwarzer EVER saved a penalty? not one, Stockdale has because he is younger and has quicker reactions he is the future and having met him in the flesh , he is not overweight at all.
+1 this rumour that he's overweight.
He's just bloody well built!
Fulham don't let players get overweight.
As long as Schwarzer is fit he plays. Its as simple as that for me. One of the better keepers in the world. Stockdale will have his time if he is patient.
Quote from: epsomraver on August 02, 2012, 09:36:57 PM
What has how they recovered from an injury got to do with their goalkeeping abilities? When has Schwarzer EVER saved a penalty? not one, Stockdale has because he is younger and has quicker reactions he is the future and having met him in the flesh , he is not overweight at all.
Remember Schwarzer saving an important one against Roma.....
Quote from: epsomraver on August 02, 2012, 09:36:57 PM
What has how they recovered from an injury got to do with their goalkeeping abilities? When has Schwarzer EVER saved a penalty? not one, Stockdale has because he is younger and has quicker reactions he is the future and having met him in the flesh , he is not overweight at all.
You know you have lost the argument when you are quoting penalty save statistics!
Mark Schwarzer eats steak for breakfast.
Quote from: Walsh on August 02, 2012, 05:29:02 PM
I think Schwarzer has one more season left in him and he will move out the way for Stockdale to come through. I hope Schwarzer will go into coaching of some sort and help Stockdale achieve what he did if not more.
I believe his plan has been to stay sharp so he can go to one last World Cup with the Aussies. If this remains his intention, he will plant to play this year and next.
Quote from: Jack Fulham on August 02, 2012, 11:48:24 PM
Mark Schwarzer eats steak for breakfast.
discussion over *locks topic*
Quote from: NickW on August 02, 2012, 11:26:23 PM
Quote from: epsomraver on August 02, 2012, 09:36:57 PM
What has how they recovered from an injury got to do with their goalkeeping abilities? When has Schwarzer EVER saved a penalty? not one, Stockdale has because he is younger and has quicker reactions he is the future and having met him in the flesh , he is not overweight at all.
Remember Schwarzer saving an important one against Roma.....
Saved 2 in a penalty shoot out to get Australia to the World Cup (against uruguay) for the first time in 32 years.
To be fair - we don't get a lot of penalties paid against us.
