Not Fulham related but the first mega transfer of the summer appears about ready to go through and frightens me somewhat, the thought of Rooney and RVP together is pretty daunting.
http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-Features/Football-News/2012/Aug/manchester-united-agree-deal-for-robin-van-persie.aspx (http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-Features/Football-News/2012/Aug/manchester-united-agree-deal-for-robin-van-persie.aspx)
United agree van Persie deal
Manchester United is pleased to announce it has reached agreement with Arsenal Football Club for the transfer of Robin Van Persie.
The deal is subject to a medical and the agreement of personal terms. A further announcement will be made in due course.
Os5889 - Price believed to be £22-25 million depending on source. Anyone else amazed at the work done by Fergie getting this done? Does this change your opinion on Man Utd's title chances?
It has to mean that Hernandez is leaving with that salary of RVP.
Why not take him? We need a type like him.
Quote from: ElissonSnygg on August 15, 2012, 08:01:53 PM
It has to mean that Hernandez is leaving with that salary of RVP.
Why not take him? We need a type like him.
I dont think Hernandez will be going anywhere with 4 years left on his contract , he's by far superior to Wellbeck, if anything with RVP being a similar player to Wellbeck I think his days may be numbered, that said with them fighting on 4 fronts I expect 4 forwards is a minimum.
Berbatov should leave this summer and will be the only scraps for others to fight over.
I just wonder if he will manage to stay fit for a full season. Slight gamble on Uniteds part but killer blow to Arsenal- the Premier leagues, premier selling club
Crazy high fee - and could possibly have a positive impact on the Dempsey valuation. Yes RVP is better, but in terms of importance they're pretty similar (especially in goals), may kinda force Liverpool's hand. Hopefully at least :P
As for the players leaving, Berba has to go. I love the guy, but it just ain't gonna happen for him at Old Trafford. Similar to Veron in that a huge fee was paid, but the changes to accommodate him weren't. Absolutely class at times though. Let's hope Berba is that number 9 for Fulham :P
Quote from: ElissonSnygg on August 15, 2012, 08:01:53 PM
It has to mean that Hernandez is leaving with that salary of RVP.
Why not take him? We need a type like him.
He'd NEVER consider us. Not going to leave, it's Berbatov IMHO.
Quote from: Jimpav on August 15, 2012, 08:05:30 PM
I just wonder if he will manage to stay fit for a full season. Slight gamble on Uniteds part but killer blow to Arsenal- the Premier leagues, premier selling club
If you think about it this is a great deal and gamble for both parties, Arsenal get some income for a player worth nothing in 12 months and lose the risk of an injury making him worthless for the season and can invest in the future.
United get the potential of a proven experienced player in his peak to join their relatively young team signed up for the rest of his career. If they can keep him fit - I am sure they will feel they will do a better job than Arsenals medical staff, especially given Wilshere was meant to be out for 2 months and hasnt played for 14 months... they will have a winner too.
I am not a great fan of Fergie but I must say you have to admire his MO ..................
Once it's out that he wants a player, he gets that player. No messing about, no cloak and dagger, ................................Bish Bosh job done.
PS.............Demps looks goooooooooooood in red !!!!
I would be absolutely furious if I were an Arsenal fan. At Van Persie of course but more at the board. They have shown no ambition whatsoever.
Quote from: os5889 on August 15, 2012, 08:13:55 PM
Quote from: Jimpav on August 15, 2012, 08:05:30 PM
I just wonder if he will manage to stay fit for a full season. Slight gamble on Uniteds part but killer blow to Arsenal- the Premier leagues, premier selling club
If you think about it this is a great deal and gamble for both parties, Arsenal get some income for a player worth nothing in 12 months and lose the risk of an injury making him worthless for the season and can invest in the future.
United get the potential of a proven experienced player in his peak to join their relatively young team signed up for the rest of his career. If they can keep him fit - I am sure they will feel they will do a better job than Arsenals medical staff, especially given Wilshere was meant to be out for 2 months and hasnt played for 14 months... they will have a winner too.
Arsenal must have the worst medical team in the league. Quite incredible really.
Quote from: God The Mechanic on August 15, 2012, 08:09:30 PM
Crazy high fee - and could possibly have a positive impact on the Dempsey valuation. Yes RVP is better, but in terms of importance they're pretty similar (especially in goals), may kinda force Liverpool's hand. Hopefully at least :P
As for the players leaving, Berba has to go. I love the guy, but it just ain't gonna happen for him at Old Trafford. Similar to Veron in that a huge fee was paid, but the changes to accommodate him weren't. Absolutely class at times though. Let's hope Berba is that number 9 for Fulham :P
I don't see how this affects Dempsey. Van Persie is much better, plays for a bigger club that can demand a bigger fee, his sale came on the back of a bidding war and he's consistently scored more goals. Plus he's not American.
Quote from: The Moose on August 15, 2012, 08:36:52 PM
Quote from: God The Mechanic on August 15, 2012, 08:09:30 PM
Crazy high fee - and could possibly have a positive impact on the Dempsey valuation. Yes RVP is better, but in terms of importance they're pretty similar (especially in goals), may kinda force Liverpool's hand. Hopefully at least :P
As for the players leaving, Berba has to go. I love the guy, but it just ain't gonna happen for him at Old Trafford. Similar to Veron in that a huge fee was paid, but the changes to accommodate him weren't. Absolutely class at times though. Let's hope Berba is that number 9 for Fulham :P
I don't see how this affects Dempsey. Van Persie is much better, plays for a bigger club that can demand a bigger fee, his sale came on the back of a bidding war and he's consistently scored more goals. Plus he's not American.
What bidding war? Genuine question too, cos as far as I was aware City were interested but didn't actually make a bid. It was just Arsenal holding out for a fee they deemed acceptable. And Dempsey hasn't openly said he won't sign a new contract, whereas RVP did. And RVP has a history of being very injury prone, something Dempsey hasn't.
Yeh, it could easily be wishful thinking :p But I reckon it puts Fulham in a slightly stronger position, knowing that someone of similar importance has been sold for so much in similar circumstance. Not that I'm suggesting Liverpool (or anyone for that matter) are gonna stump up £20million plus for Dempsey.
God the M makes a very good point
The pressure is now on Liverpool to make a decision and why wouldn't Wenger be interested in Dempsey ????
He (Arsen)is reported to be sick of little boys ( Nasri, RVP ) Demps is the perfect antidote
If Clint has to go I would prefer it was to the Gooners than to Liverpool.
Although there's not a chance of it happening, ever, I think Hernandez would be a perfect fit for Fulham. He's quick, both footed, decent in the air, has fantastic movement and is just a proper poacher. Cracking Prem goalscoring record even if he does play for one of the top teams
cheeky loan bid for Dimitiar anyone? I think Jol may have signed him at Spurs and he's probably 5th choice now
If Rip Van periWinkle, is worth £24Million (aged 29 and 1 year to run on his contract) >> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19179833 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19179833) <<
Perhaps Clint Dempsey's true value to FFC, is much nearer £20Million? Rather than the derisory £5Million starting point of "The Arse" and "The Mickey Mousers".
So the gauntlet has been thrown down... now if there are serious buyers in the mix for Clint perhaps they had better form an orderly queue, cash in their hands (large portions) and stop muckin' abaht!!! starsnstripes
Aren't we supposed to be holding out for £10 Million?
Clint is also less injury prone and still banged in 20+ goals playing on the left!
Only reason his value is half of Van Persie's is because he's American and plays for Fulham. It's a sad world...
Quote from: Enter the Frei on August 15, 2012, 09:27:27 PM
cheeky loan bid for Dimitiar anyone? I think Jol may have signed him at Spurs and he's probably 5th choice now
I can see that happening but boy we would be rubbish without the ball fp.gif. Great with it, but hardly blessed with players that could win it back, once lost.
Quote from: Enter the Frei on August 15, 2012, 09:27:27 PM
cheeky loan bid for Dimitiar anyone? I think Jol may have signed him at Spurs and he's probably 5th choice now
Loan?
It's a variety of reasons that Van Persie goes for 20+ and we get laughed at for offering Clint for 10. RVP is coming from Arsenal and has been a big name for almost a decade. You won't get the same value for an American player hitting his peak at 30. It's sad to say and I partially agree that Demps is undervalued at 10, but it's a reality of the type of club we are and the types of players we generally have. They're either "past their best" like Duff or Murphy or they are up and comers like the two Dems. Fulham is either a slight step up or down, depending on which player you're talking about. Of course, there are always stories like Brede Hangeland who came here for cheap from a lower league in terms of competition and has blown everyone away with his displays of world-class defending.
£24 million for Van Porcelain is foolish, even if SAF signed off on it. This man played in 20 or more league games in two seasons out of eight with Arsenal, and that was during his best years. If he signs a four-year deal, it could take the entire contract period for him to play the equivalent of one season.
Good for Arsenal getting a good fee for a player that has been murmuring about leaving for greener pastures for many an off-season now. They have Giroud and Podolski up front now and I believe that makes up the goals you're losing with RVP going to Man U.
Man U now have a disgustingly frightening attack.
Quote from: Scrumpy on August 15, 2012, 10:17:20 PM
Quote from: Enter the Frei on August 15, 2012, 09:27:27 PM
cheeky loan bid for Dimitiar anyone? I think Jol may have signed him at Spurs and he's probably 5th choice now
I can see that happening but boy we would be rubbish without the ball fp.gif. Great with it, but hardly blessed with players that could win it back, once lost.
I would take him, but I don't think that he would fit in with MJ's style of play.
Quote from: Mr Fulham on August 15, 2012, 10:22:09 PM
Quote from: Enter the Frei on August 15, 2012, 09:27:27 PM
cheeky loan bid for Dimitiar anyone? I think Jol may have signed him at Spurs and he's probably 5th choice now
Loan?
well I assume his wages would be pretty big, much larger than we could afford
Quote from: MikeR on August 15, 2012, 10:25:11 PM
£24 million for Van Porcelain is foolish, even if SAF signed off on it. This man played in 20 or more league games in two seasons out of eight with Arsenal, and that was during his best years. If he signs a four-year deal, it could take the entire contract period for him to play the equivalent of one season.
I'm with you here. I think Arsenal wins this deal handedly.
Quote from: Enter the Frei on August 15, 2012, 10:32:23 PM
Quote from: Mr Fulham on August 15, 2012, 10:22:09 PM
Quote from: Enter the Frei on August 15, 2012, 09:27:27 PM
cheeky loan bid for Dimitiar anyone? I think Jol may have signed him at Spurs and he's probably 5th choice now
Loan?
well I assume his wages would be pretty big, much larger than we could afford
he's for sale.
I'm sure that is why Arsenal sold him to Man U, lots of spondulics
Quote from: Mr Fulham on August 15, 2012, 10:40:39 PM
Quote from: Enter the Frei on August 15, 2012, 10:32:23 PM
Quote from: Mr Fulham on August 15, 2012, 10:22:09 PM
Quote from: Enter the Frei on August 15, 2012, 09:27:27 PM
cheeky loan bid for Dimitiar anyone? I think Jol may have signed him at Spurs and he's probably 5th choice now
Loan?
well I assume his wages would be pretty big, much larger than we could afford
he's for sale.
But if they can't sell him loanings the best alternative, I was just speculating
If Berbatov would drop his wages to £60,000 per week then sign him and make him the top earner. He is world class and will bring us lots of goals. He would fit in perfectly into our line up. Although he needs to be less lazy. If not then obviously we can't afford him.
Alex Ferguson's valuation of Van Persie should not be used as a yardstick for Fulham or our fans' valuation of Dempsey.
Two different players playing in different positions in entirely different situations.
Quote from: The Moose on August 15, 2012, 08:33:37 PM
I would be absolutely furious if I were an Arsenal fan. At Van Persie of course but more at the board. They have shown no ambition whatsoever.
It might end up being a shrewd move, if the allegedly £20m+ transfer fee is invested wisely. SAF hasn't always made wise choices with his big money signings - I'm remembering him pursuing Owen Hargreaves despite the player's horrible injury record at Bayern Munich.
Quote from: alexbishop on August 15, 2012, 09:33:12 PM
Only reason his value is half of Van Persie's is because he's American and plays for Fulham.
fp.gif
...and is a considerably worse player than Robin van Persie.
I should add.
RvP is a better player, but I don't think he's 2.5x the player. Poor Deuce; I imagine Jol showing him the morning papers and saying, "See? This is why we won't let you go for less than 10m."
This will give Arsenal the money necessary to buy Dempsey which will give Fulham the money necessary to sign Jordan Rhodes.
Simple; everybody wins.
Quote from: MikeR on August 15, 2012, 10:25:11 PM
£24 million for Van Porcelain is foolish, even if SAF signed off on it. This man played in 20 or more league games in two seasons out of eight with Arsenal, and that was during his best years. If he signs a four-year deal, it could take the entire contract period for him to play the equivalent of one season.
and, for the last season and a half, absolutely dominated defenses in "the best league in the world." If you set aside the fact that all money spent on transfers is silly money, exactly which footballer in this league is worth more than RVP? The most difficult thing to do in football is to score goals, and nobody has come close to being in his league for the last 18-20 months.
Didn't the same certain manager buy a highly rated and prolific striker called Berbatov and turn him into a bench warmer???
Arsenal fans should be applauding there club for mugging MANU for £20 + for a player with 12 months left on his contract and no intention of signing a new one.
I hope Arsenal come in for Dempsey now with a bid of £10 mil + so that we can re invest it on a striker.
Quote from: alexbishop on August 15, 2012, 09:33:12 PM
Clint is also less injury prone and still banged in 20+ goals playing on the left!
Only reason his value is half of Van Persie's is because he's American and plays for Fulham. It's a sad world...
Also he is half the player that van Persie is fp.gif
Quote from: JBH on August 16, 2012, 06:59:27 AM
Quote from: alexbishop on August 15, 2012, 09:33:12 PM
Clint is also less injury prone and still banged in 20+ goals playing on the left!
Only reason his value is half of Van Persie's is because he's American and plays for Fulham. It's a sad world...
Also he is half the player that van Persie is fp.gif
Well that's just not true. Obviously Van Persie is a better player but not twice the player. And we all know players aren't valued based on 'he's a 9/10' player and he's a '7/10' player. A player is valued based on their importance to the selling club, the players contract and the player's talent/potential.
Dempsey is just as important to Fulham as Van Persie is to Aresnal, both had one year to run on their respective contracts and both are a similar age. Van Persie scored 30 odd goals as a striker and Dempsey scored 20 odd goals as a left sided midfielder in the same league. So does that make Van Persie worth £15m more than Dempsey? I would argue not.
Based on Van Persie's valuation I would argue Clint is worth nearer £15m than 10 to the right buying club. But if no one wants/needs a goal scoring midfielder in their squad then I guess he's worth sweet f all and should sign a new contract :)
Quote from: btings on August 16, 2012, 04:06:46 AM
RvP is a better player, but I don't think he's 2.5x the player. Poor Deuce; I imagine Jol showing him the morning papers and saying, "See? This is why we won't let you go for less than 10m."
prices rise exponentially.
I am going to add my voice to the £10m for Dempsey is not a rip off at all camp.
Is he as good as Van Persie? No, but they are similar ages and his injury record is much, much better than RVP's. Considering they are both going into the end of their careers, and injuries will become more frequent, I think this is an important point.
As for RVP himself - he has had a phenomenal 18 months. Before that he had the talent and the potential but injuries were getting in the way. Wenger stuck by him and is repaid like this. Dempsey has had a phenomenal 2 year period, having grown immensely as a player. He is a more determined character than RVP and would play his heart out for a team in the CL. He is a big game player and has proven time and time again that he can deliver the goods.
Is Dempsey worth £24m in the last year of his contract? No, but £10m is getting him on the cheap.
I think we all agree 10m is cheap and earlier in the year we were all talking 12-15 maybe.
The problem is that he seems not to be wanted by those big clubs. Maybe one wants him but not two. He's like a house, its only worth what someone is willing to pay.
I would take 10 in a heartbeat and do not agree with those who say we owe him a free transfer next year. Let him play out the year. He might play out until January and then like most players in his position they start jumping out of tackles and not putting the effort in.
Ask yourselves why, with five different managers he has always had to win them over. He's a bloody difficult player to fit in a team, that's why they are all not banging on fulham's door to pay top wack, because they are just not sure of him.
I don't understand why the length of time left on a contract affects the valuation for a buying club.
The selling club has to balance what they're being offered with the nil value at the end of the contract but for the buying club it surely is a matter of how badly they want (and therefore value) that player.
It's not actually sending Dempsey much of an encouraging message if Liverpool would quite like him but only if he's cheap enough
Quote from: HatterDon on August 16, 2012, 05:02:51 AM
This will give Arsenal the money necessary to buy Dempsey which will give Fulham the money necessary to sign Jordan Rhodes.
Simple; everybody wins.
I was thinking the same thing.
Arsenal gets a wad of cash (or Hernandez plus a smaller wad of cash according to one unsubstantiated rumour), Demps gets CL football + a pay rise + he and his family don't get uprooted to move up north and Fulham can afford a signing like Rhodes even though the press claimed that it was "nailed on" that he would be plying his trade at another club by now.
If the Hernandez + cash rumour did pan out for Arsenal it would be a pretty shrewd piece of business for the North Londoners. Two healthy proven goal scorers versus RVP, one highly talented goal scorer with a bit of a track record on the injuries front.
So if Kagawa is worth £16m, does that make Dempsey worth 2p? And if Messi joined Barca on a free, does that make Dempsey minus£40m?
Have I got the rules right? I like this game.
Quote from: Mr_Moon on August 16, 2012, 11:21:50 AM
So if Kagawa is worth £16m, does that make Dempsey worth 2p? And if Messi joined Barca on a free, does that make Dempsey minus£40m?
Have I got the rules right? I like this game.
:doh:
No one has suggested Dempsey's value should be directly related to Van Persie's or the value of any other transfer. The point is that Van Persie and Dempsey are in similar situations. Both have peaked over the last couple of seasons, both have spent a long time at their club, both have been crucial to their club's league position last season, both have a year left on their contracts and both are arguably the best player in the Premiership in their respective positions. This would suggest that if a club is willing to spend 24m on Van Persie then maybe our 10m valuation is a little on the cheap side for Dempsey. Then again a player's value depends on the buying club's need, so maybe Man U really need Van Persie to win the title this year. Liverpool's laughable valuation of Dempsey clearly shows they don't really need him. If they did they'd pay the 10m.
Erm yes they have.
Quote from: Mr_Moon on August 16, 2012, 11:38:22 AM
Erm yes they have.
Great response. Really adds to the debate.
fp.gif
I know we're hardly likely to find an unbiased opinion of a Fulham player on here, but one swallow doesn't make a summer, Dempsey isn't the best in his position. Arsenal are at the top of the pile (or thereabouts), they are in that group of Champions League regulars that are untouchable and have a financial power that can't be matched by clubs like Fulham. Even if you make a comparison between Dempsey and Van Persie by saying they have been crucial to their clubs league positions, it doesn't mean that their goals/play should be valued the same. Van Persie has been integral to Arsenal the same way Ched Evans was for Sheffield United. All their values will be inflated, but Van Persies by more.
£10m for Dempsey is good business. I hope we sell because we aren't going to have this opportunity again.
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on August 16, 2012, 11:41:48 AM
Great response. Really adds to the debate.
fp.gif
Funny that, I was half way through my second post when I thought I'd have a quick check to see which sad act would post something along those lines.
It's for effect. Ever heard the phrase less is more?
Quote from: Mr_Moon on August 16, 2012, 11:50:21 AM
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on August 16, 2012, 11:41:48 AM
Great response. Really adds to the debate.
fp.gif
Funny that, I was half way through my second post when I thought I'd have a quick check to see which sad act would post something along those lines.
It's for effect. Ever heard the phrase less is more?
No.
Quote from: Mr_Moon on August 16, 2012, 11:48:03 AM
I know we're hardly likely to find an unbiased opinion of a Fulham player on here, but one swallow doesn't make a summer, Dempsey isn't the best in his position. Arsenal are at the top of the pile (or thereabouts), they are in that group of Champions League regulars that are untouchable and have a financial power that can't be matched by clubs like Fulham. Even if you make a comparison between Dempsey and Van Persie by saying they have been crucial to their clubs league positions, it doesn't mean that their goals/play should be valued the same. Van Persie has been integral to Arsenal the same way Ched Evans was for Sheffield United. All their values will be inflated, but Van Persies by more.
£10m for Dempsey is good business. I hope we sell because we aren't going to have this opportunity again.
To be fair Clint's 14 goals or whatever it was season before last wasn't bad either! He's only ever shown improvement. I dont want to get into a debate about how good a player Clint is because thats very subjective but he was up there in most writer's players of the season. Look if clubs like Liverpool don't want a potential 15+ goals a season midfielder in their team then fair enough, we'll happily keep him, but if they do then they should pay what he's worth or sod off.
Quote from: alexbishop on August 16, 2012, 11:57:59 AM
To be fair Clint's 14 goals or whatever it was season before last wasn't bad either! He's only ever shown improvement. I dont want to get into a debate about how good a player Clint is because thats very subjective but he was up there in most writer's players of the season. Look if clubs like Liverpool don't want a potential 15+ goals a season midfielder in their team then fair enough, we'll happily keep him, but if they do then they should pay what he's worth or sod off.
Of course, Clint had a couple of very good seasons previous to last year with 11-12 being his pinnacle. I can't see him producing that again. Don't get me wrong, I think Clint is a fantastic player and I'm ever so grateful for the work he's put in over the past few years, but we're at a point where we have to make a decision. For the criticism of Liverpool not needing him, do we really need him? I know he's versatile but he predominantly plays on the left. In my eyes we have an ageing asset which we can sell for good money that is preventing two exciting youngsters (Kacaniklic & Frei) from having valuable first team football. Dempsey is expendable, so do we desperately need him? It's actually funny because neither us or Liverpool particularly need Dempsey in the same way Arsenal or Man Utd don't particularly need Van Persie beyond squad depth.
Chequebook: You're learning. Keep it up.
I do understand what you're saying but....
...whilst we may not need Clint the left sided midfielder but we do need Clint the guy that scored 20 goals last season. It would be far cheaper and easier to get Clint signed up for another couple of years than source another player to score those 20goals. Likewise Aresnal will have to hope Padolski replaces Van Persie's goals. Man U need Van Perise because they lost the title last season on goal difference and want to make sure that doesn't happen again this season.
Arsenal have essentially bought Podolski and Giroud with the Van Persie money. A fantastic deal. I don't really subscribe to Man Utd needing Van Persie because they lost the title on goal difference. I'm going to wait until 1st September to make a proper judgement but they lost the league because Man City were better all over the pitch. That £24m could have been used to strengthen areas in their team that really do need attention e.g. fullback and central midfield. Maybe then they wouldn't have conceded 4 against Everton and so on.
Clint's 20 goals were good, but what's to say his replacement wouldn't score some or that the chances Clint had wouldn't instead be passed to another player.
I think I'll start a thread about landscape gardening just to see how long it will take to become all about Dempsey.
:005:
Quote from: HatterDon on August 16, 2012, 01:15:19 PM
I think I'll start a thread about landscape gardening just to see how long it will take to become all about Dempsey.
Garden Landscaping is big in Japan. Isn't Kagawa Japanese? And is Kagawa not worth 16 million?So, since Kagawa is Japanese and Dempsey likes sushi, he must be worth 16 million.
Quote from: HatterDon on August 16, 2012, 01:15:19 PM
I think I'll start a thread about landscape gardening just to see how long it will take to become all about Dempsey.
Please make all grass is flat as Dempsey falls over very easily at times :005:
Quote from: sipwell on August 16, 2012, 03:47:41 PM
Quote from: HatterDon on August 16, 2012, 01:15:19 PM
I think I'll start a thread about landscape gardening just to see how long it will take to become all about Dempsey.
Garden Landscaping is big in Japan. Isn't Kagawa Japanese? And is Kagawa not worth 16 million?So, since Kagawa is Japanese and Dempsey likes sushi, he must be worth 16 million.
I don't think a thread about allotments could
Quote from: HatterDon on August 16, 2012, 01:15:19 PM
I think I'll start a thread about landscape gardening just to see how long it will take to become all about Dempsey.
I was thinking the same thing!
