Am I to believe we have sold:
Dembele
Smurf
Etuhu
Gegov
and purchased not one replacement?
That's it then! Our central midfield engine room: Sidwell and Diarra. Still, always loans possible?
Gecov was hardly a player tbh, Etuhu was squad at best while the other two are proper losses - Dembele the biggest.
Dembele is simply not replaceable - at least quality wise - and maybe Jol has high hopes for some of the kids? Would you prefer one of them get a chance or a 30 something year old?
i have a feeling that either ruiz will drop to cm, so that petric and berbatov can play up front, therefore bringing creativity to the centre of the park. Or dejagah is going to play in the centre next to diarra, and ruiz will play up front with berbatov. kerim frei could possibly be converted to a cm because although he is quick, i dont think his end product is good enough as a winger, just my personal opinion though
Quote from: God The Mechanic on August 31, 2012, 11:50:56 PM
Gecov was hardly a player tbh, Etuhu was squad at best while the other two are proper losses - Dembele the biggest.
Dembele is simply not replaceable - at least quality wise - and maybe Jol has high hopes for some of the kids? Would you prefer one of them get a chance or a 30 something year old?
Id prefer that we had some options.
Sidwell has his injury issues as we saw last year.
I hope that players such as Minkwitz get a chance but its clear by the panic rush at the end of the window that we just didn't get who we wanted. It amazes me that we didn't get this problem area sorted earlier in the window
Sarah Brookes has made it official - there have been no moves for Palacios or Huddlestone according to her and we're done with the transfer window. Severely dissapointed. We've now go two fully experience recognised CMs at the club.
We've really sold ourselves short this window and should've made moves earlier to sign other CMs instead of leaving it so late - especially as Jol said he had money to spend.
Schoolboy error and perhaps the Berbatov move goes to show our "ambition" isn't as heavy hitting as we would have hoped. Bollocks.
hmm... well whats done is done but i can see other options then just sidwell and diarra... i believe its time for jol to try mould ruiz into a central midfielder he has good vision and seems stronger this year which is good but there will need to be alot more work done to convert him to a more defensive player. And i may be wrong but im pretty sure riether can play a midfielding role and put kelly or baird right back and who knows maybe richardson can fufill the quota
Sidwell and Diarra will do well. Hope they don't get injured though.
I think we're going to be playing Ruiz in a number 10 type role behind two strikers leaving Diarra, Sidwell and Baird to rotate as the MC/DM type player.
no competition for the places and if one gets injured.
Also, let's be honest, if we get exposed or these two can't cope then we're going to get trampled on frequently. Sidwell and Diarra may be alright, but there are a lot of equally good CM pairings and also a lot more depth and competition at more clubs...
I wonder why noone else signed?
In order for Ruiz to convert to a central midfielder he would have to learn to put a tackle in, get some strength and not think he has half hour on the ball every time. I don't want to be anti Ruiz but he is most definitely not a central midfielder. He is a luxury no 10 which concerns me when playing him with Berbatov if you play two players of that type then you need disciplined combative central midfielders to do the spade work. We lose Diarra/Sidwell and who steps in as a ball winning midfielder?
Well, we converted Dembéle into a great mid. Maybe we can do it again?
There is still time hoping something was put in place just before the deadline and it could be finalised! Otherwise, I too agree we could be caught a little short...
It is all an unwelcome mess. No quality or creativity in central midfield - the engine room of our team. With all those spare £millions. Think Aaron Ramsey!
Quote from: Northern Cottager on September 01, 2012, 12:18:07 AM
There is still time hoping something was put in place just before the deadline and it could be finalised!
No, Sarah Brookes says Dejagah was our final transfer.
Could we do a 4-1-3-2?
Just Diarra in DM, Ruiz in the middle of the three with Petric/Berbatov/Rodallega (still can't those are our options, unbelievable!) as the front two. Duff/Dejagah and all the youngsters on the wings. Diarra would not have as much freedom forward, but maybe that can help. If it doesn't work we have over £10m to reinvest in four months.
Also he may believe Davies to be a cover for CM, as he did fill in last year. Not ideal, but he does not have the pace to beat out our wing options now, and he can always pick out a killer ball. Just an idea...
Sarah Brookes said that all deals had been done - huddlestone and Palacios and Ofie weren't coming in and Charlie David wasn't signed either...
Murphy
Gecov
Dempsey
Dembele
Kasami
Duff
Davies
Etuhu
Diarra
Frei
Kacaniklic
Sidwell
After
Sidwell
Richardson
Ashkan
Diarra
Frei
Duff
Kasami
Kacaniklic
Davies
I know where i'd rather be.... our midfield has been weakened significantly and it only hits home when you put the lists next to each other like that...
2 wingers in and 4 CM's and an attacking midfielder/winger out....
just to play devils advocate, not sure if frei and kaca would be on alist from last year as they were just getting into the team. Sidwell and davies were both injured for lengthy spells. Gecov never played, and kasami "should" be more involved than last year. I agree that we are weak but maybe not as much as is being stated, defo think we are in need of another CM!
so why the hell did jol say we needed to bring some midfielders in?
Diarra and Sidwell
then you get Baird who is obviously gonna play a role there this year
we also have a player called Simon Davies who used to play playmaker for Wales national team - i know you will say he's mostly injured nowadays but it's an option
Berbatov used to play a bit deeper at Spurs and I dont see why we can't go with one DM and Berbatov and Ruiz behind Petric - for the wingers you have a lot to pick from as u see.
if we continue there's that Kasami guy who can fill in the middle and I am ready to bet Kerim Frei will be tried there at one point or another.
Maybe I'm being too optimistic but I like it that way :D
Maybe this is good and can be a chance for Donegan or Minkwitz? Also Kasami could be really good in there and Richardson can play in there aswell we have
Diarra
Sidwell
Kasami
Baird
Richardson
Minkwitz?
We will be fine
Quote from: General on September 01, 2012, 12:34:12 AM
Murphy
Gecov
Dempsey
Dembele
Kasami
Duff
Davies
Etuhu
Diarra
Frei
Kacaniklic
Sidwell
After
Sidwell
Richardson
Ashkan
Diarra
Frei
Duff
Kasami
Kacaniklic
Davies
I know where i'd rather be.... our midfield has been weakened significantly and it only hits home when you put the lists next to each other like that...
2 wingers in and 4 CM's and an attacking midfielder/winger out....
We've already played twice without Murph & Dempsey and some of others you mention were always squad players and so we have really only lost Dembele. I admit he's a big loss but even so it's not as bad as peeps are making out?
I'm thinking Baird is fourth in line after Diarra, Sidwell and Kasami followed by Donegan and Minkwitz.
Is it worth pointing out that the only player from the team that punished Norwich is Dembele! I would have liked Dem's to stay and added another two CM's but the point still stands, one player does not make a team.
Lets see what happens and give the team a few games to gel.
My two pennies worth anyway. :scarf:
It was a good transfer window for Baird, Davies and Kasami.
Did we or did we not sign Chris David ? Don't see anything official so I assume not.
Quote from: Riverside on September 01, 2012, 09:13:35 AM
Did we or did we not sign Chris David ? Don't see anything official so I assume not.
No he didnt sign
Couldn't Simon Davies have a go?
Obviosly Jol is going to have to adapt his system slightly due to our failings yesterday to sign a Dembele replacement, any ideas how he might do this?
Options:
- Diarra and Sidwell with Ruiz as number 10.
- Drop Ruiz deeper and play Diarra and Ruiz with Petric as number 10.
- Bring Kasami into the team alongside Diarra with Ruiz number 10.
- Baird and Diarra with Ruiz number 10 allowing Diarra more freedom to be box to box.
- Any other ideas? Convert Frei into a central midfielder? Don't think he has the defensive qualities to be a success in that role.
- Any free transfers going?
To be honest fella, I think Kasami has been groomed over the past season to play in the midfield slot. I was trying to remember if he had played central midfield in the cup away at Chelsea last season?
Without completely un-balancing the team and putting people outside their best and most effective playing positions, he will have to perservere with Sidewall and Diarra in the two central midfield positions, with Riether and Baird as back-up for injuries. That's not great, is it?
This is our engine room, driving what I think is great strike force ...... but they need midfield service, that they may not get.
Hopefully, with the £10m or £12m we have surplus from this summer's transfers we can reinforce next January, with:
a high quality, creative CM player, from the likes of Aaron Ramsey, Boateng et al.
plus a young emerging talents, the likes of Chris David
plus an experienced loan player, the likes of Huddlestone
Lack of planning and strategy regarding CM - still baffles me why it was all last minute.
Hey ho, onward and upward as they say
COYW
Remember he tried Ruiz in centre mid last season and changed it at half time cos we were being run ragged (think it was Newcastle at home). Not sure Jol would go back to it.
Personally think he'll go with Sidwell
Sent from my BlackBerry 9300 using Tapatalk
I think we will see
Sidwell Diarra
Ruiz Petric Kaca/Richardson
Berbatov
With Duff Frei Rodallega Kasami and Dejagah on the bench hardly a bad side
With no top class creative midfielder we will have to use the wings more as Man Utd do. They don´t plough through the middle,they stretch the game wide. Just look how their backs & wingers played against us. We are awash with wide players so we must use them.
Quote from: alexbishop on September 01, 2012, 11:06:31 AM
Obviosly Jol is going to have to adapt his system slightly due to our failings yesterday to sign a Dembele replacement, any ideas how he might do this?
Options:
- Diarra and Sidwell with Ruiz as number 10.
- Drop Ruiz deeper and play Diarra and Ruiz with Petric as number 10.
- Bring Kasami into the team alongside Diarra with Ruiz number 10.
- Baird and Diarra with Ruiz number 10 allowing Diarra more freedom to be box to box.
- Any other ideas? Convert Frei into a central midfielder? Don't think he has the defensive qualities to be a success in that role.
- Any free transfers going?
I think Sidwell will get the call up to play alongside Diarra, with Ruiz in the more advanced role, and I think Sidwell's box to box nature may work well, however it places more emphasis on Diarra's ball playing ability in getting the ball from deep and playing it out wide to Duff/Dejagah/Richardson or up the pitch to either Berbatov/Petric & Ruiz
Along with a lot of folk here, I think the key signing we didn't make was the signing of a CM to replace Dembele, but hopefully Sidwell can step up and plug the gap for us until January, but currently leaving us with a front 6 of:
Diarra - Sidwell
Dejagah - Ruiz - Richardson
Berbatov
and a bench of Duff, Petric, Rodallega, Kasami, Kacankilc
Personally, I would like to see more of Kasami, I think he's got his head down a little and is in need of some confidence and faith shown in him and he could really turn into a star but I get the feeling Jol is disappointed with how he looks to play (from his comments a few days ago about the possibility of loaning Kasami out)
I'm really looking forward to today's game, even if just to see what formation we'll play. Sky will have us down as a 4-4-1-1 like they always wrongly do, so we'll have to actually watch to figure it out. I think the inability to bring in a CM may mean we have to adapt to a new formation away from the 4-2-3-1 Jol has been gearing us up for, with quite a lot of people mentioning a diamond in a 4-1-2-1-2 with Diarra as DM, Dejegah RM, Kaca/Richardson LM, and Ruiz behind Berba and Petric.
I sort of understand the flak being thrown at Jol regarding not buying a creative centre midfielder but who would that have been? We had two last year and one went North and one was sold to, I'm guessing, buy or balance the accounts for the purchase of three players. I bet nobody had Richardson, Berbatov or an Iranian in the squad this time last week so perhaps there is one more to join up.
Quote from: ScalleysDad on September 01, 2012, 11:52:35 AM
I sort of understand the flak being thrown at Jol regarding not buying a creative centre midfielder but who would that have been? We had two last year and one went North and one was sold to, I'm guessing, buy or balance the accounts for the purchase of three players. I bet nobody had Richardson, Berbatov or an Iranian in the squad this time last week so perhaps there is one more to join up.
Still depressed : (
The brainstrust will not allow depression ................ it gets in the way of the madness and senility. The 'royal we' are quite upbeat although saying that Upton Park will be buzzing today we will either compete in midfield or go down to ten men. Ruiz is out now so hopefully we have a plan B.
Berbatov will succeed. Defence needs sorting out!!!! With all the possession we need a creative Mid field to convert. Kaka should have started. With a two week break I think we will get it sorted.
Don't despair
Agree on Kacaniklic - should've started cause at least he knows our game which was obvious when he came on. Richardson spent 80% of the time in the middle which isolated Riise for the whole first half. Will let the others talk about Berbatov since we're supposedly a bit biased as well :D
Thought Kaca was patchy. Berba and Rodallega seem to be on the same wavelength. Duff rarely misuses the ball. Diarra was solid. The defence uncharacteristically poor, though I think Brede has not been himself since being made captain. Sidwell, Richardson both substandard.
http://www.fulhamfc.com/news/2012/september/01/manager-reaction (http://www.fulhamfc.com/news/2012/september/01/manager-reaction)
"I don't really see him as a winger, I see him more as a central midfield player or even a number 10. He can play left-back as well."
Jol seems to think he's a better CM than a winger. Thoughts?
Jol only sees him as a central midfielder now as we failed to buy one yesterday haha.
I thought he said yesterday he came as a winger!! Reading the end of the article worried me a bit.
Its clear he was excepting Dembele to stay and if not get that CM in. It has not played out that way and he talks about 'coming up with something'. Sounds to me as if its back to the drawing board with formation and style.
Didnt look like a footballer to me. Wonder if the Dejagu guy can play cm
Hoping for Reo-Coker a la Diarra.
If anyone can transfer a player into a central midfielder Jol can as we know!
All this talk of signing Reo-Coker on a free really is an indication of how badly we did in some aspects of the transfer window. When the idea was originally raised we all slammed it and wished it wasn't true, and just a few short weeks later we're begging for it to happen. Even if Richardson does move to CM, we need to sign at least one, if not 2 or 3 in January.
Since apparently you guys have too many strikers and too few decent midfielders, Berba should be played in midfield. He actually enjoys it and is pretty good at this. In his first year at United he played behind Tevez and Rooney, in his second - always behind Rooney. Here is a link to his very last United game where he plays with a bunch of United kids in midfield, in a 4-4-2 (with Chicharito and Macheda being the strikers). Just watch the full video of him channeling his inner Scholes - you can't play much better than this in midfield:
Dimitar Berbatov Vs AmaZulu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcBWFbj405g#ws)
(If the link does not work search "Dimitar Berbatov Vs AmaZulu" on youtube)
Cheers!
Hes a goalscorer and we need goals. Ruiz in the hole Diarra and Sidwell at the base. Berba has too much class and will get us many fouls around the box!
It's a thought - and tbh if everything goes awol then it's worth a try but apparently Dejagah and Richardson are going to be fighting it out for that position in the 3 CM roles with Diarra and Sidwell so not necessarily panic stations just yet..
That said, does anyone know when we're expected to see Dejagah play? Heard he may have signed for us whilst injured which doesn't bode well - also, whilst I've heard good things about his time at Wolfsburg etc, does anyone know any better? I've seen a few videos and he looks more of a defensive minded attacking player if that makes sense but It'd be good to hear a bit more from someone who knows more...
Reading this long after the match ended, it's almost amusing to see how optimistic some were about a Diarra-Sidwell partnership before it crashed and burned at Upton Park. Most have flayed Sidders, but Diarra errs a lot, too. And Richardson looked pretty awful, didn't he? I feared the consequences of losing Dembele long before it happened, and I just can't imagine Ruiz will ever fit into those boots. Too fragile, too easily bossed off the ball.
So you have to wonder: who would have sat if Ruiz had played today, and how would that have unfolded? will Richardson improve if/when fit, and where will he play? could Berbatov do well as a 10 with Petric and/or Hugo up top? do we have any midfielders with quickness of mind and pace? where will the freaking goals come from without the Dems? We really only scored one last week, with Dembele, and none today without him. Where will the freaking goals come from?
Yes a real shock that Jol now sees Richardson as a central midfielder. Where did that come from? No wonder he looked confused. We have NO forwards so to suggest Berbatov play midfield seems a waste. He looked fine and struck up a partnership of sorts with Rodders. It was one game but the problems we all saw before and to be fair so did Jol are still going to be there.
Ruiz behind Berbatov will work but I think Jol will have to play two up front. Ironic since we now have only three real forwards in the whole squad. Ruiz up front with Berbatov behind? Point is we have a poorer squad now. Shame and a case of what might have beens. Jol will have to really pull something special out of the bag.
Not wishing to bale Jol out here but he was characteristically honest in his summing up and also seems to have been caught out by both D's going. A tad naive that as somebody was going to stump up 15 million for Dembele but to balance the judgement on Jol both seemed to linger for a while before finding the door late yesterday.
Midfield was a sorry mess but its the back four for me. Hangaland is getting a fair amount of criticism but he is still featuring in selections for WBA and Hughes is labelled slow and mostly out of position but still features in most selections. One of the zillion reasons I would not want Jols job is that I have got them in my line up too simply because its too far back for Baird, Senderos is out and we have no cover. I honestly think some of the players know the barrier is creaking which is why the midfield looks far too deep and there is often green pasture between ball winners, Sidwell and Diarra, and attacking options, a lonely Petric last week and a lightweight Rodders this week. Late in the game we managed to pass through West Ham a couple of times but that had more to do with their shape than our flair. Berbatov and Rodders work in progress and worth another go but how long with Hangaland hang on to his spot.
We should of kept Murphy for another year, it was quite obvious that Dembelle was gonna get poached, i quite liked what i saw of Gecov in the few measily moments that they gave him, bad planning by the club, we need a creative midfielder bad !
Quote from: ScalleysDad on September 02, 2012, 12:13:14 AM
Not wishing to bale Jol out here but he was characteristically honest in his summing up and also seems to have been caught out by both D's going. A tad naive that as somebody was going to stump up 15 million for Dembele but to balance the judgement on Jol both seemed to linger for a while before finding the door late yesterday.
Midfield was a sorry mess but its the back four for me. Hangaland is getting a fair amount of criticism but he is still featuring in selections for WBA and Hughes is labelled slow and mostly out of position but still features in most selections. One of the zillion reasons I would not want Jols job is that I have got them in my line up too simply because its too far back for Baird, Senderos is out and we have no cover. I honestly think some of the players know the barrier is creaking which is why the midfield looks far too deep and there is often green pasture between ball winners, Sidwell and Diarra, and attacking options, a lonely Petric last week and a lightweight Rodders this week. Late in the game we managed to pass through West Ham a couple of times but that had more to do with their shape than our flair. Berbatov and Rodders work in progress and worth another go but how long with Hangaland hang on to his spot.
cant put it on Hangeland or Hughes, its our shoddy midfield thats the problem "thus" creating problems for our defense.
i like Diarra but we need another decent central midfielder bad.
we have some problems in midfield definately i see a solution but it wont click immediately.until it does i think we should not look further than a CC win rate.i am smileing at berba,petric rodders ruiz,duff been in the same line up !
Michael Ballack free agent? - NCP Car Park Twitter mention so means nothing but a suggestion.
Quote from: whiteburp on September 02, 2012, 08:50:54 AM
we have some problems in midfield definately i see a solution but it wont click immediately.until it does i think we should not look further than a CC win rate.i am smileing at berba,petric rodders ruiz,duff been in the same line up !
you can smile, because they probably won't ever be in the same line up!
If last year was anything to go by!
Quote from: Lighthouse on September 02, 2012, 09:36:17 AM
Michael Ballack free agent? - NCP Car Park Twitter mention so means nothing but a suggestion.
He is a free agent - he'll also be 36 this month! :011:
Quote from: WestCountryWhite on September 01, 2012, 12:17:29 AM
In order for Ruiz to convert to a central midfielder he would have to learn to put a tackle in, get some strength and not think he has half hour on the ball every time. I don't want to be anti Ruiz but he is most definitely not a central midfielder. He is a luxury no 10 which concerns me when playing him with Berbatov if you play two players of that type then you need disciplined combative central midfielders to do the spade work. We lose Diarra/Sidwell and who steps in as a ball winning midfielder?
Not arguing that Ruiz is the answer in midfield, but a couple of seasons ago you could've put "Dembélé" into those two sentences and remained fairly accurate. Like Mousa before him, Bryan is still rounding into the player Jol needs him to be.
With Berbatov, Rodallega, Petric in the side, Ruiz HAS to play midfiled with Diarra. I have beer rated Sidwell and he can rot in the reserves for all I care. Kaca, Richardson, the new Iran/german fellow and Duff on the wings.
I will bow to Jol and call him master 500 times if he creates a commanding central midfield out of Diarra, Richardson, and Sidwell. Ruiz is needed as a pure (attacking) MF now.
Ruiz cannot and should not be played next to anyone in CM.
He is not..I repeat..he is not a CM.
Absolute liability when he has the ball 25-30 yards away from our goal. Harsh maybe, but its just not his game.
Inclined it agree with above. When you spend 10mil on a player you play him in his best position to get the true value out the player. He is not a central midfielder.
We should play Ruiz ahead of Diarra in the role Richardson tried to play yesterday. He is far too restricted deeper. Proper number 10 role behind two strikers would make up for the lack of possession Dembele gave us.
Dembele wasn't a MF and neither was Clint. Ruiz will fall over like a matchstick sometime as well, but it can't be worse than West Ham away yesterday. Please provide alternatives - I didn't say it was the best answer, just an answer given the poor shape our MF has been left in.
Sidwell Diarra and Ruiz making a midfield 3 Ruiz breaking to support Berbatov with Duff and Rodallega down the flanks
Quote from: The Rock on September 02, 2012, 09:34:26 PM
Dembele wasn't a MF and neither was Clint. Ruiz will fall over like a matchstick sometime as well, but it can't be worse than West Ham away yesterday. Please provide alternatives - I didn't say it was the best answer, just an answer given the poor shape our MF has been left in.
Alternatives:
2 x holding midfielders (Diarra and Baird or diarra and Sidwell) and Ruiz as a Number 10
Convert Richardson or Duff or Davies into Dembele's role.
Play 4-0-6 :p
Diarra/Sidwell/Baird/Richardson/Kasami/Reither/Davies/Donegan
If you are going to have two CM's then its pretty much any two from that eight.
Ruiz just is not strong enough on the ball to play in an english lge midfield. Yes behind strikers but not even in a diamond. Might as well play three cm's with him one of the front 3.
Quote from: perry geyton on September 02, 2012, 05:05:39 AM
Quote from: ScalleysDad on September 02, 2012, 12:13:14 AM
Not wishing to bale Jol out here but he was characteristically honest in his summing up and also seems to have been caught out by both D's going. A tad naive that as somebody was going to stump up 15 million for Dembele but to balance the judgement on Jol both seemed to linger for a while before finding the door late yesterday.
Midfield was a sorry mess but its the back four for me. Hangaland is getting a fair amount of criticism but he is still featuring in selections for WBA and Hughes is labelled slow and mostly out of position but still features in most selections. One of the zillion reasons I would not want Jols job is that I have got them in my line up too simply because its too far back for Baird, Senderos is out and we have no cover. I honestly think some of the players know the barrier is creaking which is why the midfield looks far too deep and there is often green pasture between ball winners, Sidwell and Diarra, and attacking options, a lonely Petric last week and a lightweight Rodders this week. Late in the game we managed to pass through West Ham a couple of times but that had more to do with their shape than our flair. Berbatov and Rodders work in progress and worth another go but how long with Hangaland hang on to his spot.
cant put it on Hangeland or Hughes, its our shoddy midfield thats the problem "thus" creating problems for our defense.
i like Diarra but we need another decent central midfielder bad.
I'm not sure what games you have watched lately but Holte let H&H off the hook by playing wider than usual and yet they still contrived to get in each others way. Hangers was simply shocking at Old Trafford and could not find a decent pass if he was still there and at Upton Park they, all four, failed to sort themselves out let alone impose themselves. Midfield was bypassed at Upton Park and much of the aerial stuff should have been dealt with, they had been told to expect it for goodness sake. Jol and Hangaland have acknowledged defensive, not midfield failings, the question is what are they going to do about it. Big game on the 15th as the aerial stuff will be replaced with a bit of pass and move.
We were linked in the papers with a fella called Carlos "The Rock" Sanchez over the summer, 26 year old, free transfer from Valenciennes. Think he may still be available - certainly his Wikipedia page indicates so? Colombian international, so perhaps Rodallega can put in a good word!
EDIT - Boo, turns out he was signed by some Chilean side and loaned back to Valenciennes. Ah well!
Quote from: cebu on September 02, 2012, 12:09:18 PM
Quote from: Lighthouse on September 02, 2012, 09:36:17 AM
Michael Ballack free agent? - NCP Car Park Twitter mention so means nothing but a suggestion.
He is a free agent - he'll also be 36 this month! :011:
Well our youth policy is doing well seeing as it was the oldest starting 11 we have ever put out in the Prem. Come on the kids like Rodders :005:
