As I read many of the current discussion panels, I'm struck by posters' hand wringing over the loss of Moussa but not so much over the loss of Clint. Let's not engage in historical revisionism. Clint was essential to the team's fortunes to-date. Moussa--not so much. Moussa always dribbled too much and ended up putting teammates out of position in doing so, ultimately giving the ball away and failing to score. Sure, he penetrated up the middle with the ball, impressive for a big man. But then, the same story kept repeating itself. With Clint on the pitch, we always felt we could score; it could come at any time; he'd make something happen. He'd find a way. I never felt that way about Dembele or Ruiz or Andy (whose work rate and desire you had to admire). Further, Clint was a vastly underrated passer/distributor.
I just feel that the club didn't do enough to keep Clint. I am going out on a limb here, because I wasn't privy to those discussions. But if you have made an offer that is above reproach, you let it slip out to the public. You don't engage in vague self-contradicting statements in which you later correct yourself or 'refine' your statement. Perhaps he wanted the security of a longer term contract with certain guaranteed amounts. Perhaps they devalued his perceived future skills set, assuming his age would catch up to those skills before the end of the term. All I know for sure are the number of goals he scored and assists credited to him. You don't give up your proven producer without doing everything possible to keep him.
We don't want to try and keep somebody who doesn't want to stay. He has gone.
Time to move on....
A lot...now move on.
The fact we let him go for £6m proves there was never going to be a way back for him into the team. Bridges were burnt and whilst Jol extended an olive branch Clint seemingly could not see his future At FFC anymore.
He's gone and that's that, nout we can do.
Can't argue with that, assuming he really didn't want to stay. But indulge me for a minute. What if the club had obtained its quality signings before it let negotiations deteriorate with Dempsey? So that he could have seen a greater likelihood that the team would make higher standings in the near future? I think Berbatov is an exceptionally good forward, one of the very best. He's not an open field/runs fast kind of striker. He's not going to run by anyone. He does his work with control and guile. In a two meter circle, I'll take him any day over almost any forward in the league. What would Clint or Moussa have done had they known the composition of next season's team in advance? I think Clint would have stayed. In any event, it's done now. He's gone, and we are the poorer for it.
I'll miss him dearly. I think many are glad he is gone regardless of how it played out, or how we think it played out.
I think his departure will have an effect on our squad in the short term but Jol will figure it out and we'll soon forget about it.
I also think his departure will calm the waters between the Dempsey 'camps' on the boards. Course we'll find something else :dft012:
Fact is he's gone and it is time to move on but bringing in players (Ruiz), (berbatov), and paying them more than Dempsey without ever even laced up the boots for Fulham after all Dempsey has done for the club certainly didn't help Dempsey in wanting to stay that's for sure.
I do not think there was ANY way to keep Dempsey. The qualities that made him so valuable to the club on the pitch and a fan favorite are the same qualities that have compelled him to seek a new club.
Agree with Mr EWM - shame he's gone, but time to move on.
No one player is bigger than the team, and whilst he has left a hole, it will get filled somehow.
Quote from: Burt on September 02, 2012, 05:16:57 PM
Agree with Mr EWM - shame he's gone, but time to move on.
No one player is bigger than the team, and whilst he has left a hole, it will get filled somehow.
Sorry - sound like Mr Cliche :dft011:
We must find a way to play Kaca and Frei every game. They are the future. We must make sure Sidwell never plays again. He is the past
I was hoping he would show some loyalty as hangerland had done. But the boy thinks he is better than he is so his time was up, mousa has already scored for the twotts and dempsey will follow... sucks to be a feeder to a team that isn't that far better than we. I could see this team growing exponentially every year since I started following the club. I feel we need to make every effort to show our rising stars that we are committed to becoming a top 4 team, if not what is the point of showing up? Keep our stars or we will be a perpetual feeder club... feck that. COYW more effort needs to be made to keep our stars. We found mousa and demps we found smalling etc... lets keep 'em from now on.
How can you possibly miss Etuhu from your list?
Etuhu was very enthusiatic though
Quote from: St Eve on September 02, 2012, 07:44:53 PM
We must find a way to play Kaca and Frei every game. They are the future. We must make sure Sidwell never plays again. He is the past
So quick to judge the 'g1nger Iniesta'! He has played 1 full Premiership match this season. How many has Kieron Richardson played? Are you prepeared to give him a chance? If so, then why not Sidwell?
We won't miss his rapping...
He was never that good, which is why we only got £6mill for him at the last minute from a team that was desperate.
It looks to me that now we have lost euthu people are looking at another scapegoat to have a go at.
Sidwell is a quality player who had a very disrupted previous season and is finding his way back in you cannot blame him for our alarming labk of creativity in the middle of the park as he never was that kind of player.
The sad thing is, Dembele and Dempsey are playing European football this year, FFC is not. Based on yesterday's sorry showing, there's no foreseeable prospect of European football for FFC, while Spurs could qualify for CL football next year; they only got squeezed out this year by CFC's unexpected CL win (plus some poor showings at the end of last season).
The club we saw yesterday is much more likely to face relegation that to contend for a top half finish, barring unexpected improvement in midfield play (and defense, alas). The mids currently under contract appear to lack chance-creating quality, and some of them don't provide much cover on defense, either. Without Dempsey and Dembele, where will the goals come from? Has Ruiz ever had a MOTM performance without one of the Dems on the field, much less without both of them? It's nice to have Berbatov, but who will provide the service?
In the BPL scheme of things, FFC will always be a selling club, not a buying one. I get it. But at the end of this transfer period, the trajectory of FFC no longer seems positive.
Quote from: BillNRoc on September 02, 2012, 08:18:10 PM
The sad thing is, Dembele and Dempsey are playing European football this year, FFC is not. Based on yesterday's sorry showing, there's no foreseeable prospect of European football for FFC, while Spurs could qualify for CL football next year; they only got squeezed out this year by CFC's unexpected CL win (plus some poor showings at the end of last season).
The club we saw yesterday is much more likely to face relegation that to contend for a top half finish, barring unexpected improvement in midfield play (and defense, alas). The mids currently under contract appear to lack chance-creating quality, and some of them don't provide much cover on defense, either. Without Dempsey and Dembele, where will the goals come from? Has Ruiz ever had a MOTM performance without one of the Dems on the field, much less without both of them? It's nice to have Berbatov, but who will provide the service?
In the BPL scheme of things, FFC will always be a selling club, not a buying one. I get it. But at the end of this transfer period, the trajectory of FFC no longer seems positive.
"Without Dempsey and Dembele, where will the goals come from?" We have already scored 6 goals this season without Dempsey and it may have slipped your attention but we signed Berbatov...
Quote from: BillNRoc on September 02, 2012, 08:18:10 PM
The sad thing is, Dembele and Dempsey are playing European football this year, FFC is not. Based on yesterday's sorry showing, there's no foreseeable prospect of European football for FFC, while Spurs could qualify for CL football next year; they only got squeezed out this year by CFC's unexpected CL win (plus some poor showings at the end of last season).
The club we saw yesterday is much more likely to face relegation that to contend for a top half finish, barring unexpected improvement in midfield play (and defense, alas). The mids currently under contract appear to lack chance-creating quality, and some of them don't provide much cover on defense, either. Without Dempsey and Dembele, where will the goals come from? Has Ruiz ever had a MOTM performance without one of the Dems on the field, much less without both of them? It's nice to have Berbatov, but who will provide the service?
In the BPL scheme of things, FFC will always be a selling club, not a buying one. I get it. But at the end of this transfer period, the trajectory of FFC no longer seems positive.
I don't think missing Dempsey's goals will be an issue. If you make chances, people will score. It's the creation of chances I am worried about but maybe with Ruiz we will have a bit more penetration through the centre. Think a lot of our attacks will be focused out wide now though with Kaca and Dejagah.
Kaca and Frei must play every game. They are the future. Sidwell must never play again. He is the past
Quote from: Scrumpy on September 02, 2012, 08:10:18 PM
Quote from: St Eve on September 02, 2012, 07:44:53 PM
We must find a way to play Kaca and Frei every game. They are the future. We must make sure Sidwell never plays again. He is the past
So quick to judge the 'g1nger Iniesta'! He has played 1 full Premiership match this season. How many has Kieron Richardson played? Are you prepeared to give him a chance? If so, then why not Sidwell?
My opinion is not based upon this season. i think that he is not premiership quality. As for Richardson, forgetting yesterdays abysmal performance he has not exactly set the premiership on fire. So to answer your question i am expecting very little from him.
I thought Etuhu was decent WestCountryWhite. I would hardly call Sidwell class. He simply is not good enough.
OK suppose Ruiz and Berbatov are injured for a game or two. What the hell do we do? Losing Clint who has been outstanding is going to hurt. Dembele the same. Without them we have had two game at Sheffield and at Spam and on both occasions we have plenty of the ball but are so slow in building the play forward that we allow time for defences to come back in numbers.
Against Norwich we did move the ball quickly against a poor side but move it we did. So until we find a way to defend and find a way to build quickly we are in deep do do. Dempsey acting the way he did and the way many other players have behaved maked me wonder about the management. But Jol has also been left in the lurch too. He stated many times what he needed to replace the players we have moved on. So come the last day three come in and three go out, two of them out best players. Jol has been badly let down as well.
The joke that many said we should stop moaning and everything will be fine was proved wrong for whatever reasons. Jol has to keep us in the Prem until Christmas in the hope we can bring in players of the same calibre of the Dems. But I don't hold my breath.
I think Sidwell plays quite well at times; but he isn't consistent. He sometimes appears to get lost as the formations shift and adjust to the moment. Please stop saying he's crap and all that. Often it's a matter of chemistry and intuition as much as skills set. A teammate takes off and others have to cover. There's an unspoken reciprocity when that happens and some players end up looking the worse for it--sometimes wrongly I think. And I judge a player's character by how he comported himself throughout the duration--not just at renegotiation time. When did Clint ever give us anything but professionalism and a positive state of mind? I don't trust MAF (and thus Jol) with the party line based on everything I've seen and heard up to a few months ago. My memory is longer than that. Dempsey said there was far more to the story and I assume we shall soon hear it. But you're right: He's gone and that's that. I also don't like all this talk about us being no more than a midtable team. It may have taken 200 Mil to get us here so fast but are we paying any less than Newcastle or Swansea? Why can't we start out winning. Jol's tinkering with our back line had in my opinion more to do with our early losses last season than anything else. Chemistry. It wasn't broke; why fix it? Hasn't our problem been the revolving door of head coaches over the last so many years? How can we reach any kind of consistency if the head guy is constantly being replaced? And that brings me back to players like Sidwell. No he's far from my favorite but he CAN play--perhaps not so well under the current coach and his system. I think Etuhu is a terrific player--I really do--but he didn't get the support from staff and time on field he needed to gel with those around him. He got burned a few times in the back and it did him in. Patience seems subjectively doled out... Ruiz is a terrific player but his style still isn't suited for the allowed physicality of English football. And he doesn't have break away foot speed. I think Diarra is the key for us this year. He has to get the penetrating ball to the attacking mids and forwards.
Forever Fulham why aren't you on the Spurs site? It sounds as if your name should be Forever Dempsey or, now, Forever Spurs.
Dempsey didn't want to play for us any more. He is better than us. He has gone. Like Bullard he is not part of our future.
There was nothing the club could have done to keep him. His head was turned and he burnt his bridges.
And why do you try to praise Dempsey by abusing Dembele (and others)? It is strange.
Dembele was excellent against Norwich and outstanding against Man.Utd.. He improved significantly under Jol and will continue to improve and become a star at Spurs and possibly Real Madrid after that.
We will have to wait and see if Dempsey can live up to all the hype his fans give him and his opinion of himself.
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on September 03, 2012, 01:20:57 AM
Forever Fulham why aren't you on the Spurs site? It sounds as if your name should be Forever Dempsey or, now, Forever Spurs.
This is a part harsh. Most of his comments were about things other than Dempsey, sans two sentences. Dempsey can still be discussed on this site even if some don't like it....just like Hughes, Murphy, Bullard and Dembele are and continue to be.
Apprentice, being a fan and a critical thinker don't have to be mutually exclusive. You want to be a butt boy for the club's management, fine. Just don't attribute opinions and ideas to me I haven't expressed.
Hey guys calm down now
Forever Fulham ' When did Clint ever give us anything but professionalism and a positive state of mind? I don't trust MAF (and thus Jol) with the party line based on everything I've seen and heard up to a few months ago. My memory is longer than that. '
096.gig Patently not.
You don't trust the man who saved us from extinction has put in £200m+ to the club to get us to the premiership, who is still funding the club?
He lets the managers manage both Jol and Hodgson sing his praises and even Hughes said he was left alone to do the job. Yet, you put all your stock in a player who was obviously tapped up, entered into talks while in the USA supposedly to play for his country but carving out a deal that would mean Fulham did not get true value for him?
If we had the choice at the start of last season between Berba and Dempsey do you think most people would not have taken Berba?
We're going to find out how good Dempsey and Dembele are away from Fulham just as we'll find out how good a manager and coach Jol is in the next few months.
My guess is that Dembele will excel, Dempsey will disappoint whilst Jol will keep us safely in mid table but those are all tenatative guesses and very capable of being wrong.
None of us know how any of this will pan out which is what keeps it interesting.
With the benefit of hindsight I wish we'd given Murphy a 2 year contract and kept Etuhu.
Quote from: RidgeRider on September 03, 2012, 01:34:39 AM
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on September 03, 2012, 01:20:57 AM
Forever Fulham why aren't you on the Spurs site? It sounds as if your name should be Forever Dempsey or, now, Forever Spurs.
This is a part harsh. Most of his comments were about things other than Dempsey, sans two sentences. Dempsey can still be discussed on this site even if some don't like it....just like Hughes, Murphy, Bullard and Dembele are and continue to be.
I was referring to the original post. My post and his most recent post were being written at the same time:
QuoteAs I read many of the current discussion panels, I'm struck by posters' hand wringing over the loss of Moussa but not so much over the loss of Clint. Let's not engage in historical revisionism. Clint was essential to the team's fortunes to-date. Moussa--not so much. Moussa always dribbled too much and ended up putting teammates out of position in doing so, ultimately giving the ball away and failing to score. Sure, he penetrated up the middle with the ball, impressive for a big man. But then, the same story kept repeating itself. With Clint on the pitch, we always felt we could score; it could come at any time; he'd make something happen. He'd find a way. I never felt that way about Dembele or Ruiz or Andy (whose work rate and desire you had to admire). Further, Clint was a vastly underrated passer/distributor.
I just feel that the club didn't do enough to keep Clint. I am going out on a limb here, because I wasn't privy to those discussions. But if you have made an offer that is above reproach, you let it slip out to the public. You don't engage in vague self-contradicting statements in which you later correct yourself or 'refine' your statement. Perhaps he wanted the security of a longer term contract with certain guaranteed amounts. Perhaps they devalued his perceived future skills set, assuming his age would catch up to those skills before the end of the term. All I know for sure are the number of goals he scored and assists credited to him. You don't give up your proven producer without doing everything possible to keep him.]As I read many of the current discussion panels, I'm struck by posters' hand wringing over the loss of Moussa but not so much over the loss of Clint. Let's not engage in historical revisionism. Clint was essential to the team's fortunes to-date. Moussa--not so much. Moussa always dribbled too much and ended up putting teammates out of position in doing so, ultimately giving the ball away and failing to score. Sure, he penetrated up the middle with the ball, impressive for a big man. But then, the same story kept repeating itself. With Clint on the pitch, we always felt we could score; it could come at any time; he'd make something happen. He'd find a way. I never felt that way about Dembele or Ruiz or Andy (whose work rate and desire you had to admire). Further, Clint was a vastly underrated passer/distributor.
I just feel that the club didn't do enough to keep Clint. I am going out on a limb here, because I wasn't privy to those discussions. But if you have made an offer that is above reproach, you let it slip out to the public. You don't engage in vague self-contradicting statements in which you later correct yourself or 'refine' your statement. Perhaps he wanted the security of a longer term contract with certain guaranteed amounts. Perhaps they devalued his perceived future skills set, assuming his age would catch up to those skills before the end of the term. All I know for sure are the number of goals he scored and assists credited to him. You don't give up your proven producer without doing everything possible to keep him.
Quote from: Forever Fulham on September 03, 2012, 04:40:30 AM
Apprentice, being a fan and a critical thinker don't have to be mutually exclusive. You want to be a butt boy for the club's management, fine. Just don't attribute opinions and ideas to me I haven't expressed.
I was referring to the original post. My post and your post about Sidwell were being composed at the same time.
To state the obvious again: the club offered Dempsey a new contract, Dempsey wanted to leave for a `Champions League' club, he went about this in an underhand way with Liverpool and now he has left for Spurs. He chose to no longer be a Fulham player.
Yes, we can talk about him but why does it have to be yet another whining complaint that the club should have done more.
And in terms of the board as a whole we have had so many of these threads. They should be merged and consigned to a black hole. He has gone. Get over it.
We should be much more concerned over the loss of Dembele as the games with and without Dembele this season show.
What should really be being said is not how much Dempsey did for Fulham but how much Fulham did for Dempsey. He needed the opportunity, the support of his colleagues who he has turned against, the coaching of people like Jol and the support of the fans but the ungrateful sod couldn't even behave decently to get us the best transfer fee in return.
