Does anybody else think there is a bit of unrest and a dislike for Jol in the changing room? Last season there was the much publicised "bust-up" between Jol and Bobby Z. Then there was AJ. Danny Murphy was offered a new deal but decided against it. then there was the mass-exodus on deadline day. so is it just me or...
Quote from: mikecdawg-ffc on September 03, 2012, 03:42:45 AM
Does anybody else think there is a bit of unrest and a dislike for Jol in the changing room? Last season there was the much publicised "bust-up" between Jol and Bobby Z. Then there was AJ. Danny Murphy was offered a new deal but decided against it. then there was the mass-exodus on deadline day. so is it just me or...
Mass exodus??? Dempsey left!!
The may have been issues in the Dressing room but if they were being caused by BZ, AJ and DM then they have been dealt with.
Danny Murphy decided against it..sounds bad when said like that.
But look more into it and you see that Jol was going to reduce his games and only offered a one year, which makes sense if you looking to phase out.
Murphy was going to sign but I suspect he still feels he has a lot to offer. So much so he takes a two year contract in the championship with a club no sane person would go to.This so he can play week in week out. I would say more a playing decision than a 'dont want to players for Jol's one. Maybe murphy felt his Premier days were over and knew the right time to get out.
"mass-exodus" is good if all the less talented players leave!
On the serious side, you cant have 50K/week salary ceiling and expect to have top talent sticking around.
No. don't get perfromances like that at Old trafford if confidence and morale is not high.
This is starting to grind my gears a bit. I'm pretty sure Danny left because of Fulham only offering a one year deal, as mentioned above. I believe Dembele had a clause that made his leaving impossible to stop for the club, and he always said he wanted to go to the next level. Hate to admit it, but now he has. The relationship with Dempsey could have been handled better maybe, but if a player comes back after the summer and goes "See ya guys, I'm off to Liverpool", without the club actually making contact then what are you supposed to do? Can we stop trying to blame Jol for "chasing our players away"? Dembele and Dempsey went way late in the Transfer Window, screwing us over in regards to replacements. That's the long and short of it (plus a mess up with some paperwork).
I'm as guilty as anyone but too much of our time on here is trying to analyse situations without having nearly enough information.
I don't know what the players think of Jol and won't unless they decide to tell me.
Given that they're earning big money to play football I assume they'll all be trying unless on field evidence tells me otherwise.
The 4 matches we've played so far are very typical of Fulham performances and results over the last 10 years or so.
Weak opponent at home - convincing win.
Away to Champions League team - defeat - this time quite a plucky one.
A weakened side playing a Carling Cup tie away mid week in the north - a flabby performance and defeat.
West Ham away - defeat. Never in the game.
We have so far been as we always are which should mean a decent win against West Brom.
On paper we have the most exciting attacking options ever. We lack steel though but that hopefully will mean a season of exciting home wins but depressing away days.
As ever but more so. Regardless of whether the players like Jol.
There are a few people on here and other boards looking to blame Jol for Dempseys behaviour. This arguement is being used by them and it doesn't wash.
If every club that "lost" a few players did so because they left due to "unrest" there woud be no dressing room in the whole country that was not suspect.
Players come and go, some because the player wanted to go (e.g Dempsey / Zamora) some bacause the club wanted him to go (e.g Bullard / Johnson).
It is just normal business...
There is and was unrest in the dressing room. Jol decided to change things and some players objected for whatever reasons. Trouble is we haven't replaced all of those players. So Jol is left with the worst of both Worlds. With all the talk of youth we did name our oldest side ever against West Jam.
I think there must be as they all want the peg in the corner.
Quote from: Lighthouse on September 03, 2012, 08:30:34 AM
There is and was unrest in the dressing room. Jol decided to change things and some players objected for whatever reasons. Trouble is we haven't replaced all of those players. So Jol is left with the worst of both Worlds. With all the talk of youth we did name our oldest side ever against West Jam.
why you are at it, can I please have the winning lottery numbers for the weekend?
Quote from: Edward_Winston_Malone on September 03, 2012, 08:40:44 AM
Quote from: Lighthouse on September 03, 2012, 08:30:34 AM
There is and was unrest in the dressing room. Jol decided to change things and some players objected for whatever reasons. Trouble is we haven't replaced all of those players. So Jol is left with the worst of both Worlds. With all the talk of youth we did name our oldest side ever against West Jam.
why you are at it, can I please have the winning lottery numbers for the weekend?
Sorry mate I got rid of four numbers because I didn't like them but only brought in two others. So am a bit short at the moment.
Quote from: Lighthouse on September 03, 2012, 08:43:32 AM
Quote from: Edward_Winston_Malone on September 03, 2012, 08:40:44 AM
Quote from: Lighthouse on September 03, 2012, 08:30:34 AM
There is and was unrest in the dressing room. Jol decided to change things and some players objected for whatever reasons. Trouble is we haven't replaced all of those players. So Jol is left with the worst of both Worlds. With all the talk of youth we did name our oldest side ever against West Jam.
why you are at it, can I please have the winning lottery numbers for the weekend?
Sorry mate I got rid of four numbers because I didn't like them but only brought in two others. So am a bit short at the moment.
Now that's quality.
Quote from: Lighthouse on September 03, 2012, 08:43:32 AM
Quote from: Edward_Winston_Malone on September 03, 2012, 08:40:44 AM
Quote from: Lighthouse on September 03, 2012, 08:30:34 AM
There is and was unrest in the dressing room. Jol decided to change things and some players objected for whatever reasons. Trouble is we haven't replaced all of those players. So Jol is left with the worst of both Worlds. With all the talk of youth we did name our oldest side ever against West Jam.
why you are at it, can I please have the winning lottery numbers for the weekend?
Sorry mate I got rid of four numbers because I didn't like them but only brought in two others. So am a bit short at the moment.
A short lighthouse is about as much use as a chocolate teapot...
I have seen nothing to modify my view that Jol is an utter clod when it comes to man management and the next "test" is Brede. If Brede decides not to extend his contract, that to me will merely add to the lengthening line of good players I believe have left the club at least partly because of Jol's incompetence: Bobby, AJ, Danny, Etuhu and Demps. Indeed, if we go back to the start of last season, should Brede decide to move on, we will have lost the entire backbone of that team except Mark S. (I do not include Dembele in the list as he was clearly always going to move if the right offer came - let's hope he proves to be as good as he thinks he is.)
Have we a better team now than at the beginning of last season? Time will tell, but I doubt it. No question that Jol has added two very skillful forwards in Berbatov and Rod. But both noted for not always putting in a full shift. Individually better than Bobby and AJ, who always worked their socks off, but will they be as effective over a full season? I have doubts.
But the real mess is behind the forwards. We had Danny, Demps and Dembele and we now have none of them, with no evidence of an adequate replacement for any of them. As a result, I suspect we will see very little creativity from the midfield, as a consequence poor service to our forwards, and we will struggle. I hope I am wrong.
Quote from: Oakeshott on September 03, 2012, 08:48:55 AM
I have seen nothing to modify my view that Jol is an utter clod when it comes to man management and the next "test" is Brede. If Brede decides not to extend his contract, that to me will merely add to the lengthening line of good players I believe have left the club at least partly because of Jol's incompetence: Bobby, AJ, Danny, Etuhu and Demps. Indeed, if we go back to the start of last season, should Brede decide to move on, we will have lost the entire backbone of that team except Mark S. (I do not include Dembele in the list as he was clearly always going to move if the right offer came - let's hope he proves to be as good as he thinks he is.)
Have we a better team now than at the beginning of last season? Time will tell, but I doubt it. No question that Jol has added two very skillful forwards in Berbatov and Rod. But both noted for not always putting in a full shift. Individually better than Bobby and AJ, who always worked their socks off, but will they be as effective over a full season? I have doubts.
But the real mess is behind the forwards. We had Danny, Demps and Dembele and we now have none of them, with no evidence of an adequate replacement for any of them. As a result, I suspect we will see very little creativity from the midfield, as a consequence poor service to our forwards, and we will struggle. I hope I am wrong.
Very wise words, we have had two pictures of Jol hugging players, saying he loved them like a brother, BZ and Dempsey, not sure I would want to be his brother, from what little comes out of the club I have heard that all is not well and there have been a lot of door slamming .
Quote from: Oakeshott on September 03, 2012, 08:48:55 AM
I have seen nothing to modify my view that Jol is an utter clod when it comes to man management and the next "test" is Brede. If Brede decides not to extend his contract, that to me will merely add to the lengthening line of good players I believe have left the club at least partly because of Jol's incompetence: Bobby, AJ, Danny, Etuhu and Demps. Indeed, if we go back to the start of last season, should Brede decide to move on, we will have lost the entire backbone of that team except Mark S. (I do not include Dembele in the list as he was clearly always going to move if the right offer came - let's hope he proves to be as good as he thinks he is.)
Have we a better team now than at the beginning of last season? Time will tell, but I doubt it. No question that Jol has added two very skillful forwards in Berbatov and Rod. But both noted for not always putting in a full shift. Individually better than Bobby and AJ, who always worked their socks off, but will they be as effective over a full season? I have doubts.
But the real mess is behind the forwards. We had Danny, Demps and Dembele and we now have none of them, with no evidence of an adequate replacement for any of them. As a result, I suspect we will see very little creativity from the midfield, as a consequence poor service to our forwards, and we will struggle. I hope I am wrong.
Martin Jol did not put the £15m clause into Dembele's contract. Any player with that clause in their contract is already looking to move on, no matter who the manager was.
Martin Jol did not decide that at 29 Dempseys last chance at ta CL club would be his next and final contract,no matter who the manager was.
Martin Jol did probably decide that Andy Johnson and Danny Murphy were not worth 2 year contracts, the logic of that is obvious but the results are yet to be seen
Martin Jol will make a decision on Hangerland and it will be right in some people's minds and wrong in others and Martin Jol will carry on doing what he is paid to do, which is to make the best decisions for the club, in his opinion as the manager.
Martin Jol will still be the same manager next time we win and next time we lose...
As per usual, all of this is conjecture, none of you have any hard evidence to back up these claims. Where is the evidence that there is "unrest in the dressing room". Please bring it to the table.
Quote from: Lighthouse on September 03, 2012, 08:43:32 AM
Quote from: Edward_Winston_Malone on September 03, 2012, 08:40:44 AM
Quote from: Lighthouse on September 03, 2012, 08:30:34 AM
There is and was unrest in the dressing room. Jol decided to change things and some players objected for whatever reasons. Trouble is we haven't replaced all of those players. So Jol is left with the worst of both Worlds. With all the talk of youth we did name our oldest side ever against West Jam.
why you are at it, can I please have the winning lottery numbers for the weekend?
Sorry mate I got rid of four numbers because I didn't like them but only brought in two others. So am a bit short at the moment.
Now that is quality!!
Quote from: Peabody on September 03, 2012, 09:03:26 AM
As per usual, all of this is conjecture, none of you have any hard evidence to back up these claims. Where is the evidence that there is "unrest in the dressing room". Please bring it to the table.
The evidence doesnt exist. Its lots of people putting together completely separate incidents and calling it a trend.
Etuhu's idiotic comments (subsequently deleted you will note) only served to stir the pot.
Did Jol come in and upset a few players last season? Yes. Was it wrong? Not really - the club needed a shake up because we needed a new team.
It looks as though the board has let down Jol significantly. I am really hoping that he is still 100% onside because if he leaves now, we are going down.
Although by the sound of some people, they would happily see Jol gone.
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on September 03, 2012, 09:36:55 AM
It looks as though the board has let down Jol significantly.
What makes you say that?
Quote from: FulhamMic on September 03, 2012, 09:39:34 AMQuote from: AlFayedsChequebook on September 03, 2012, 09:36:55 AMIt looks as though the board has let down Jol significantly.
What makes you say that?
I think that would be because the CEO deals with the signings from a list given by Jol. Jol would clearly talk to the players he wants but paperwork/wages would be done by the bean counters.
Given we did not get the targets he wanted, the board/ceo let him down possibly, or it was just that it all went a bit pete tong on the day.
Quote from: FulhamMic on September 03, 2012, 09:39:34 AM
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on September 03, 2012, 09:36:55 AM
It looks as though the board has let down Jol significantly.
What makes you say that?
Jol had a squad he needed to change. Players were publicly upset. They threw things at passers by and screamed rude words. But Jol was the manager and if players cannot accept that it is not his problem. So three hundred and fourteen players were moved on. He publicly said we need three hundred and twelve players to fill the void. Despite all the time we actually brought in a tea lady and a donkey whisperer. The people doing the deals are sort of to blame.
Still have'nt seen any evidence to back up these claims. Or is the evidence just what someone has read in the papers?
Since no one knows exactly which players we were targeting, how those conversations went, how close we got to signing any of them, how many of the deals collapsed due to our wage structure and the club's (pretty responsible) reluctance to break it, then I think stating the board let Jol down, without any hard evidence, is totally unnecessary.
I bet when Woy was in charge there were regular group hugs and towel spanks in the changing room
Quote from: FulhamMic on September 03, 2012, 10:42:34 AM
Since no one knows exactly which players we were targeting, how those conversations went, how close we got to signing any of them, how many of the deals collapsed due to our wage structure and the club's (pretty responsible) reluctance to break it, then I think stating the board let Jol down, without any hard evidence, is totally unnecessary.
Come on now.
We let players go in CM and did not replace them. We know (from Sarah Brookes) that there were a load of people at Motspur on Fri night trying to tie up deals and they fell through.
Ultimately it was a bad few days for FFC. But this board has always been good in the past, so I think we will be fine.
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on September 03, 2012, 10:54:25 AM
trying to tie up deals and they fell through
Yeah, but since we have no idea who they were or why they fell through it's a bit unfair to lay blame at this point.
- selling clubs could have changed their valuation (
in their favour) as the clock ticked down
- other clubs could have come in with better offers
- time simply ran out
- work permit applications failed with no time to appeal
- players choosing other clubs when we weren't the only offer on the table
- failed medical
- not being prepared to be held ransom by agents and their fees
There are far too many reasons why deals don't come off to simply, and completely, blame the board.
It is such a fine line. If we had signed Derek Boateng on the last day then I think most people would, in time, have been very happy overall with our dealings given the difficulties caused by Dempsey and the release clause for Dembele.
EWM - while you are at it, can I please have the winning lottery numbers for the weekend?
064.gif
Problems in the dressing room? Not for Berba:
"But for me the most important thing was that at Fulham I [would be] working with a man who I always liked and I'd like to work together [with him] again.
"The other day I played for Fulham and we was losing 3-0, but I felt like we were leading 6-0, I'm playing for a coach for which I'll die."
Anyone else thinks there is unrest in the changing room?
If there isn't then Fulham is unique in all of professional sports around the world. Only 11 players start. Everybody else SHOULD BE upset that they're not starting. The WORST situation possible is that all 30 players in the first team squad think that they're performing as often or as well as they should.
Quote from: FulhamMic on September 03, 2012, 11:07:19 AM
Quote from: AlFayedsChequebook on September 03, 2012, 10:54:25 AM
trying to tie up deals and they fell through
Yeah, but since we have no idea who they were or why they fell through it's a bit unfair to lay blame at this point.
- selling clubs could have changed their valuation (in their favour) as the clock ticked down
- other clubs could have come in with better offers
- time simply ran out
- work permit applications failed with no time to appeal
- players choosing other clubs when we weren't the only offer on the table
- failed medical
- not being prepared to be held ransom by agents and their fees
There are far too many reasons why deals don't come off to simply, and completely, blame the board.
Totally agree with you FulhamMic. Before Dembele left we were looking for cover for him. Then, after he left we were looking for someone to replace him. The players and their agents were then holding all the cards. Part of me is glad that we didn't give in to that. The other part is very worried now that we don't have anyone to play in that position..
