Can anyone see a future for Ruiz? Waste of money
Quote from: Robbie on September 15, 2012, 08:03:21 PM
Can anyone see a future for Ruiz? Waste of money
Fully agree, a total waste of money, my God, what were the board thinking of when they bought him...I can't go on, i'm going to end it all... 090.gif
I'm sorry, would you care to elaborate on your statement and perhaps offer some sort of reason why we would think he has no future with the club? That way I can try and give a reasoned answer to a well thought out point, if that is what you can offer.
Why on earth not?
Quote from: Robbie on September 15, 2012, 08:03:21 PM
Can anyone see a future for Ruiz? Waste of money
Yes...to the question.
The second part of your post, is it a question or statement?
I really hope you're joking, I think everyone can see that he has the quality at times but he just isn't producing it every game. He will soon come into his own and will become a key player in our team.
We won a game without him so obviously he's crap and must never play for the club again.
I heard insanity was running wild on the board today. I wasn't misinformed, unfortunately.
He is a quality player him and Berbatov linking up will be exciting
What a WUM.
Quote from: TonyGilroy on September 15, 2012, 08:23:27 PM
We won a game without him so obviously he's crap and must never play for the club again.
Agree. The guys awful. Shocking against Norwich, Shocking against United. Only 4 key passes and 2 assists AND we looked so much better without him against West Ham.
Doesnt play and we win 3-0!
RUIZ OUT!
JOL OUT!
MACKINTOSH OUT!
AL-FAYED OUT!
Looks like you got a few bites Robbie
I just spent so long typing such a detailed and well argued response to the original post that it timed out and I lost it, so I fully sympathise with the recent bout of 'dump a contraversial statement and run without backing it up' posts.
Anyway looks like I needn't worry as there's plenty of folk on here that can see that Ruiz is quality and will live up to his price tag soon.
Quote from: Jimpav on September 15, 2012, 08:55:25 PM
I just spent so long typing such a detailed and well argued response to the original post that it timed out and I lost it, so I fully sympathise with the recent bout of 'dump a contraversial statement and run without backing it up' posts.
Anyway looks like I needn't worry as there's plenty of folk on here that can see that Ruiz is quality and will live up to his price tag soon.
Soon?
He's doing it right now!
Berbatov aside, Ruiz is our classiest player we have at the club.
I do hope he is not Injury prone, as he missed a lot of last season , and is obviously not right at the moment.
Quote from: ddeuce on September 15, 2012, 08:58:24 PM
Quote from: Jimpav on September 15, 2012, 08:55:25 PM
I just spent so long typing such a detailed and well argued response to the original post that it timed out and I lost it, so I fully sympathise with the recent bout of 'dump a contraversial statement and run without backing it up' posts.
Anyway looks like I needn't worry as there's plenty of folk on here that can see that Ruiz is quality and will live up to his price tag soon.
Soon?
He's doing it right now!
Ha ha, fair point, perhaps that should have read,
he'll have paid off his price tag soon!
When did we become so gullible?
Yes, hopefully that is it and he'll be back in the starting 11 next week.
I spoke to a friend of mine who is a spurs fan today.... I told him what a gem they have in Dembele.... His reply was interesting..." But I wanted Ruiz!"
Ruiz definitely has a future!
Quote from: Whiteroom on September 15, 2012, 08:12:24 PM
Why on earth not?
Totally this.
And this thread is totally why I chose not to post here very often. We have more than one class act in this club, and always have had.
Times are still going to be tough in the season ahead, but this sort of stuff is ridiculous.
Sorry to upset everybody but.
I sat next to a fella today who pointed out that Ruiz spent the time he was on view on the balcony texting like a madman and not watching the game. He had a point. We noticed he did'nt stand to see Berbatov despatch the penalty and he left really early, the ground that is not the balcony. I had overheard a conversation at Old Trafford where it was said that he, Ruiz, apparently is'nt 'getting it', the whole Fulhamish thing that is, unlike the likes of Petric who have embraced it. Time will tell but the approach play we saw in patches today will see off Wigan and was'nt it great to see the new kids on the block in the squad with Frei still to come back. Diarra back for the City game and perhaps Petric for 'Dave', a similar engine room for Southampton and use the width and before we know it we are seven eight games in and for me the question remains .......... is that it then or at least is he no longer the foundation stone the team will be built around? His absences are getting quite frequent so it would be wise to adopt another plan methinks.
Off to dig a trench then
Quote from: ScalleysDad on September 15, 2012, 11:28:54 PM
Sorry to upset everybody but.
I sat next to a fella today who pointed out that Ruiz spent the time he was on view on the balcony texting like a madman and not watching the game. He had a point. We noticed he did'nt stand to see Berbatov despatch the penalty and he left really early, the ground that is not the balcony. I had overheard a conversation at Old Trafford where it was said that he, Ruiz, apparently is'nt 'getting it', the whole Fulhamish thing that is, unlike the likes of Petric who have embraced it. Time will tell but the approach play we saw in patches today will see off Wigan and was'nt it great to see the new kids on the block in the squad with Frei still to come back. Diarra back for the City game and perhaps Petric for 'Dave', a similar engine room for Southampton and use the width and before we know it we are seven eight games in and for me the question remains .......... is that it then or at least is he no longer the foundation stone the team will be built around? His absences are getting quite frequent so it would be wise to adopt another plan methinks.
Off to dig a trench then
fp.gif
No.
Not sure why people think that Petric would be better alongside Barbatov. Rodders has what little speed we have up front. Isn't Petric just too similar to Barbatov?
As for Ruiz I don't think the post was done for anything other than to get a reaction. I don't care if he doesn't 'get' Fulham as long as he plays well for us. I am sure he will move on now he realises we are such a small club and that we will sell our best players anyway. Just hope he can play well while he is with us.
starting to get sick of people on this forum, hard to understand whether you lot are actual true fulham fans. We have one bad game against west ham and everyone is saying bad things about jol and our team, then we have a very good game against west brom and everyones saying were very good and dont need certain players. when fully fit, ruiz is one of the first names on the team sheet, to say we dont need him is a joke, i agree he hasnt lived up to his price tag yet, but first season is always hard, espeically for a playing style like his, give it a rest ffs
Quote from: hazzaffc on September 16, 2012, 12:19:27 AM
starting to get sick of people on this forum, hard to understand whether you lot are actual true fulham fans. We have one bad game against west ham and everyone is saying bad things about jol and our team, then we have a very good game against west brom and everyones saying were very good and dont need certain players. when fully fit, ruiz is one of the first names on the team sheet, to say we dont need him is a joke, i agree he hasnt lived up to his price tag yet, but first season is always hard, espeically for a playing style like his, give it a rest ffs
Although it does throw up the interesting question that with Ruiz playing just behind the forward. How would have played today? We needed two players up front and our central midfield two played well. Ruiz is a great player and I would love to see play with Berbatov. But we may well find that our best team is one without the star players.
Quote from: Lighthouse on September 16, 2012, 12:27:23 AM
Quote from: hazzaffc on September 16, 2012, 12:19:27 AM
starting to get sick of people on this forum, hard to understand whether you lot are actual true fulham fans. We have one bad game against west ham and everyone is saying bad things about jol and our team, then we have a very good game against west brom and everyones saying were very good and dont need certain players. when fully fit, ruiz is one of the first names on the team sheet, to say we dont need him is a joke, i agree he hasnt lived up to his price tag yet, but first season is always hard, espeically for a playing style like his, give it a rest ffs
Although it does throw up the interesting question that with Ruiz playing just behind the forward. How would have played today? We needed two players up front and our central midfield two played well. Ruiz is a great player and I would love to see play with Berbatov. But we may well find that our best team is one without the star players.
tbh i think our most effective strike partnership would be ruiz and berbatov, however i think ruiz in the central midfield role with diarra/sidwell/baird, and petric / roda up front with berba will be equally effective, depending on who jol would like to play. ruiz is versatile and can play in a few different roles
Oh yeah, allow him to leave on a free transfer please because some guy said to his mate that he thinks that Ruiz doesn't get the Fulhamish-thing and he likes to text during matches.
Oh people, seriously? Get a grip!
to say ruiz is not a usefull member of our squad is out of the question.but i agree,where he plays how to use him whose place does he take is becoming confusing.i feel the only thing wrong here is his price tag.
We had 9 players injured for yesterday but if they were all magically fit for Wigan I'd play the same team.
Doesn't mean that Rodellega, for example, is better than Ruiz or Baird better than Diarra. It's about not messing with what works.
Let the injured players get fit and force Jol to play them.
Whether Ruiz "will" make it is speculative. I want him to prove it. His performance against Norwich though was excellent.
I am so excited to see Ruiz and Berbatov play together! I think these 2, playing in form together, will make for some very attractive football! Ruiz already looked stronger and hungrier at the start of the season! We've finally got decent attacking players which is what we have lacked for so long in a Fulham team!
+ 1
How can you not be excited about Berbatov and Ruiz ?
Quote from: shnlwswlkr on September 16, 2012, 11:16:33 AM
I am so excited to see Ruiz and Berbatov play together! I think these 2, playing in form together, will make for some very attractive football! Ruiz already looked stronger and hungrier at the start of the season! We've finally got decent attacking players which is what we have lacked for so long in a Fulham team!
Totally agree, it will be brilliant to watch them together, very excited.
Btw 076.gif. Great first post.
Quote from: TonyGilroy on September 16, 2012, 09:39:43 AM
We had 9 players injured for yesterday but if they were all magically fit for Wigan I'd play the same team.
Doesn't mean that Rodellega, for example, is better than Ruiz or Baird better than Diarra. It's about not messing with what works.
Let the injured players get fit and force Jol to play them.
Whether Ruiz "will" make it is speculative. I want him to prove it. His performance against Norwich though was excellent.
yes but you have the benefit of hindsight. no way in the world would you have picked that team to start if we had no injuries
Quote from: fulhamben on September 16, 2012, 11:24:52 AM
Quote from: TonyGilroy on September 16, 2012, 09:39:43 AM
We had 9 players injured for yesterday but if they were all magically fit for Wigan I'd play the same team.
Doesn't mean that Rodellega, for example, is better than Ruiz or Baird better than Diarra. It's about not messing with what works.
Let the injured players get fit and force Jol to play them.
Whether Ruiz "will" make it is speculative. I want him to prove it. His performance against Norwich though was excellent.
yes but you have the benefit of hindsight. no way in the world would you have picked that team to start if we had no injuries
I think Tony is using hindsight to influence his foresight. Nowt wrong with that.
Quote from: TWFL on September 16, 2012, 11:24:34 AM
Quote from: shnlwswlkr on September 16, 2012, 11:16:33 AM
I am so excited to see Ruiz and Berbatov play together! I think these 2, playing in form together, will make for some very attractive football! Ruiz already looked stronger and hungrier at the start of the season! We've finally got decent attacking players which is what we have lacked for so long in a Fulham team!
Totally agree, it will be brilliant to watch them together, very excited.
Btw 076.gif. Great first post.
Haha thank you! I've moved here from the official Fulham website forum due it's closure! Already seems like a better place to talk all things Fulham!
Quote from: Senior Supporter on September 16, 2012, 11:35:46 AM
Quote from: fulhamben on September 16, 2012, 11:24:52 AM
Quote from: TonyGilroy on September 16, 2012, 09:39:43 AM
We had 9 players injured for yesterday but if they were all magically fit for Wigan I'd play the same team.
Doesn't mean that Rodellega, for example, is better than Ruiz or Baird better than Diarra. It's about not messing with what works.
Let the injured players get fit and force Jol to play them.
Whether Ruiz "will" make it is speculative. I want him to prove it. His performance against Norwich though was excellent.
yes but you have the benefit of hindsight. no way in the world would you have picked that team to start if we had no injuries
I think Tony is using hindsight to influence his foresight. Nowt wrong with that.
whoops miss read his post. thought he said he would have picked the same team for brom if they were all fit
Quote from: Mr Fulham on September 16, 2012, 01:05:18 AM
Oh yeah, allow him to leave on a free transfer please because some guy said to his mate that he thinks that Ruiz doesn't get the Fulhamish-thing and he likes to text during matches.
Oh people, seriously? Get a grip!
Thats quite a way off from what I said is'nt it and 'the guy' is'nt a mate he just sat next to me.
this might come as a total shock to some of you, but football players who didn't grow up following fulham probably don't love the club as much as you do.
crazy thought, I know.
Quote from: michaelread on September 16, 2012, 11:48:54 AM
this might come as a total shock to some of you, but football players who didn't grow up following fulham probably don't love the club as much as you do.
crazy thought, I know.
WHAT?!
Quote from: michaelread on September 16, 2012, 11:48:54 AM
this might come as a total shock to some of you, but football players who didn't grow up following fulham probably don't love the club as much as you do.
crazy thought, I know.
You've got to be kidding. In that case we should get rid of them all. I don't want players here who wouldn't die for the shirt, etc, etc. 064.gif
Well Mr Berserker and myself are split regarding Ruiz. Mr B is not a Fulham supporter but comes to matches with me sometimes, he's not keen on Ruiz and doesn't overly rate him. I on the other hand feel he has flashes of brilliance and feel he has great potential, but i am worried that if he doesn't start playing more Ruiz will lose interest in Fulham, I think this could be partially caused by his injuries.
He is considered the best player at the club by all the coaches. Well maybe not any more as Berba has come in but yeah I don't see why people are complaining. Isn't it better to have more options. Every player offers something different.
Usually players become better when they are out the team. Ruiz seems to break that rule and is deemed surplus to requirements by some.
Quote from: ScalleysDad on September 15, 2012, 11:28:54 PM
Sorry to upset everybody but.
I sat next to a fella today who pointed out that Ruiz spent the time he was on view on the balcony texting like a madman and not watching the game. He had a point. We noticed he did'nt stand to see Berbatov despatch the penalty and he left really early, the ground that is not the balcony. I had overheard a conversation at Old Trafford where it was said that he, Ruiz, apparently is'nt 'getting it', the whole Fulhamish thing that is, unlike the likes of Petric who have embraced it. Time will tell but the approach play we saw in patches today will see off Wigan and was'nt it great to see the new kids on the block in the squad with Frei still to come back. Diarra back for the City game and perhaps Petric for 'Dave', a similar engine room for Southampton and use the width and before we know it we are seven eight games in and for me the question remains .......... is that it then or at least is he no longer the foundation stone the team will be built around? His absences are getting quite frequent so it would be wise to adopt another plan methinks.
Off to dig a trench then
Have you considered that it's possibly quite painful to be an expensive player having your first few decent performances after a first season gone missing interrupted by injury, also after promising to show more quality in the press? And that perhaps it's more difficult to consciously invest more emotionally in spectating your teammates playing well without you in that scenario?
He is hugely talented, the only issue is that I'm not sure how he fits into the team. Jol likes proper wingers and you wouldn't think he is necessarily the best partner for Berba as they offer quite similar things.
Quote from: hesedmedia on September 16, 2012, 05:21:09 PM
Quote from: ScalleysDad on September 15, 2012, 11:28:54 PM
Sorry to upset everybody but.
I sat next to a fella today who pointed out that Ruiz spent the time he was on view on the balcony texting like a madman and not watching the game. He had a point. We noticed he did'nt stand to see Berbatov despatch the penalty and he left really early, the ground that is not the balcony. I had overheard a conversation at Old Trafford where it was said that he, Ruiz, apparently is'nt 'getting it', the whole Fulhamish thing that is, unlike the likes of Petric who have embraced it. Time will tell but the approach play we saw in patches today will see off Wigan and was'nt it great to see the new kids on the block in the squad with Frei still to come back. Diarra back for the City game and perhaps Petric for 'Dave', a similar engine room for Southampton and use the width and before we know it we are seven eight games in and for me the question remains .......... is that it then or at least is he no longer the foundation stone the team will be built around? His absences are getting quite frequent so it would be wise to adopt another plan methinks.
Off to dig a trench then
Have you considered that it's possibly quite painful to be an expensive player having your first few decent performances after a first season gone missing interrupted by injury, also after promising to show more quality in the press? And that perhaps it's more difficult to consciously invest more emotionally in spectating your teammates playing well without you in that scenario?
Actually folks I was just pointing out a scenario I had been made aware of and there was, or seemed to be, some substance to it. That is all. I think Ruiz was a great purchase and yes he must be gutted not to be the king pin yet, (missed that opportunity now imho), and yes watching your team mates get along very nicely without you must be galling but ....... he has'nt set the world on fire, his input this season is a game against a wide open midfield and he is injured again so getting any consistency to his game within the team is on hold again. The team personnel and The Jol Plan has changed since his purchase and the problem Ruiz has is that he has missed most of the evolution. As an example and like the others have mentioned where would he go for next saturdays game? If uninjured and match fit would you change the centre mid again, (would that be the fourth game running),would you drop 'Dave' to the bench and not bother with Petric or would you chop AK? From any angle the change would come at the expense of a cog that seems to be working and Ruiz going straight back into the team would be like another experiment. I'm not saying he is rubbish, I'm not saying he is a waste of money I am just agreeing with the debate that maybe he is not destined to be the fulcrom of the side after all. I would then go on to agree that ten million plus is alot for a sub.
Quote from: ScalleysDad on September 16, 2012, 06:42:35 PM
Quote from: hesedmedia on September 16, 2012, 05:21:09 PM
Quote from: ScalleysDad on September 15, 2012, 11:28:54 PM
Sorry to upset everybody but.
I sat next to a fella today who pointed out that Ruiz spent the time he was on view on the balcony texting like a madman and not watching the game. He had a point. We noticed he did'nt stand to see Berbatov despatch the penalty and he left really early, the ground that is not the balcony. I had overheard a conversation at Old Trafford where it was said that he, Ruiz, apparently is'nt 'getting it', the whole Fulhamish thing that is, unlike the likes of Petric who have embraced it. Time will tell but the approach play we saw in patches today will see off Wigan and was'nt it great to see the new kids on the block in the squad with Frei still to come back. Diarra back for the City game and perhaps Petric for 'Dave', a similar engine room for Southampton and use the width and before we know it we are seven eight games in and for me the question remains .......... is that it then or at least is he no longer the foundation stone the team will be built around? His absences are getting quite frequent so it would be wise to adopt another plan methinks.
Off to dig a trench then
Have you considered that it's possibly quite painful to be an expensive player having your first few decent performances after a first season gone missing interrupted by injury, also after promising to show more quality in the press? And that perhaps it's more difficult to consciously invest more emotionally in spectating your teammates playing well without you in that scenario?
Actually folks I was just pointing out a scenario I had been made aware of and there was, or seemed to be, some substance to it. That is all. I think Ruiz was a great purchase and yes he must be gutted not to be the king pin yet, (missed that opportunity now imho), and yes watching your team mates get along very nicely without you must be galling but ....... he has'nt set the world on fire, his input this season is a game against a wide open midfield and he is injured again so getting any consistency to his game within the team is on hold again. The team personnel and The Jol Plan has changed since his purchase and the problem Ruiz has is that he has missed most of the evolution. As an example and like the others have mentioned where would he go for next saturdays game? If uninjured and match fit would you change the centre mid again, (would that be the fourth game running),would you drop 'Dave' to the bench and not bother with Petric or would you chop AK? From any angle the change would come at the expense of a cog that seems to be working and Ruiz going straight back into the team would be like another experiment. I'm not saying he is rubbish, I'm not saying he is a waste of money I am just agreeing with the debate that maybe he is not destined to be the fulcrom of the side after all. I would then go on to agree that ten million plus is alot for a sub.
Fair enough, it just seemed a bit harsh to infer conclusions about his attitude from his behavior as a spectator. I think you're right about what has happened as regards the development of Plan Jol, but I'd put him in for Roda in a heartbeat, and have him play behind the Berbs for home or less-physical games, and try Petric in the hole there (or swapping at random with Berba as the false 9) for physically tougher matches. Ruiz at the Britannia would just give me all sorts of shivers. Perhaps he does end up evolving in those matches to the key man, perhaps not. If he does end up being primarily a sub, I'd agree, that's a lot of money, especially with the Michus of the world out there.
Jol has said that Ruiz cost far less than £10M.
The project has to be a successful team. For me it's a no brainer to keep yesterday's team for Wigan. If Ruiz, Petric, Diarra, Richardson etc can make the bench then they'll be options to be used as necessary and then on to the next team selection.
There's no need for Ruiz to be considered as essential or disposable or anything in between. If he gets on and does well Jol will have some thinking to do.
Right now he must be delighted at yesterday's performance and if those players perform well they should keep their places.
Good day yesterday as Jol changed the system as he said he would and the players he used were able to work within these parameters perfectly. No attempts to thread the ball through the middle just quick and decisive passes to the wingers or attacks by the backs down the wings.
Do not change a winning system or a winning Team who ever is fit next week and we may crush Wigan in a more effective way than Man U did.
I wonder if the Murphy/now Diarra game plan is to slide quick balls through the middle or into inside forward space whereas the Sidwell/Bairdinho game yesterday was to ping pin-pointedly accurate 60 yard passes to Duff and Kaca who sat very wide to stretch the defence. This was even before the sending off.
We haven't seen that in a Fulham side for years!
Jol's style seems to like being unpredictable (Art of War), so I think we'll see a mixture of both these very contrasting styles this season. I just hope we can make one or both of these game plans work away from home every now and then.
Nogood "tactically naive, I am isit" Boyo
Quote from: ScalleysDad on September 15, 2012, 11:28:54 PM
I sat next to a fella today who pointed out that Ruiz spent the time he was on view on the balcony texting like a madman and not watching the game. He had a point. We noticed he did'nt stand to see Berbatov despatch the penalty and he left really early, the ground that is not the balcony.
Begs the question, why were you lot watching the balcony instead of the game / penalty.
Pot / kettle.
Personally I am drooling at the possibility of watching Ruiz Berbatov and Petric play in tandem. Lovely quick intelligent flicks in tight spaces to finish exquisitely. Bring it on.
Quote from: rhyspabsolom on September 17, 2012, 07:50:56 AM
Quote from: ScalleysDad on September 15, 2012, 11:28:54 PM
I sat next to a fella today who pointed out that Ruiz spent the time he was on view on the balcony texting like a madman and not watching the game. He had a point. We noticed he did'nt stand to see Berbatov despatch the penalty and he left really early, the ground that is not the balcony.
Begs the question, why were you lot watching the balcony instead of the game / penalty.
Pot / kettle.
We could toss a donut onto the back benches from where we sit. We were all jumping up and down for the pen and he caught my eye then, Mrs Petric is a distraction and the guy next to me predicted Smith would be on the bench as he pointed out his parents sitting next to Mr Frei senior. I am not staring directly ahead all of the time
sheesh now I'm thinking about Mrs Petric again...................
Quote from: bizarrebaz on September 17, 2012, 08:02:06 AM
Personally I am drooling at the possibility of watching Ruiz Berbatov and Petric play in tandem. Lovely quick intelligent flicks in tight spaces to finish exquisitely. Bring it on.
Absolutely but it won't be such fun if our defence isn't being protected and those three are waiting for someone to give them the ball.
Every team we beat, obviously, plays badly but on Saturday I thought we got the basics right by being solid and using that as the platform to create chances.
Quote from: bizarrebaz on September 17, 2012, 08:02:06 AM
Personally I am drooling at the possibility of watching Ruiz Berbatov and Petric play in tandem. Lovely quick intelligent flicks in tight spaces to finish exquisitely. Bring it on.
interested in knowing how you would line up the other three players in midfield?