Given our disappointing season, and several really woeful performances many people were left feeling at best concerned and at worst thoroughly outraged. I for one was not impressed but I never felt he should be sacked. Since the close of the season we've made four signings, two of which were not too long ago linked to moves to top clubs.
Personally I have faith in him to turn things around. In my mind he is the main reason we attracted Amorebieta and Stekelenburg, not to mention Ruiz and Berbatov, Emanuelson etc. I feel that with another couple of signings we will perform much better as the players will be better suited to Jol's tactics.
Happy with our transfer dealings so far but will not excuse another performance like the ones we were putting in last season. Will consider my feelings again a few games into th season.
got to admit, I was getting a little concerned towards the end of the season, but hoping this season will be a European qualifier come next May...........
It's pointless speculating about signings but nevertheless here is my wishlist.
Top priority is a creative central midfielder, capable of lying deep as well as getting forward: McCarthy, De Guzman and Huddlestone are the only players that spring to mind. Not sure De Guzman can play the deep lying midfielder though.
Pacy poacher: Defoe (unlikely), Bent (also unlikely), Kone, spring to mind.
Left back UNLESS Richardson can prove his fitness: No idea really.
Winger who can play left and right wing (Duff was poor for the second half of the season): Again no idea
Backup for Ruiz (optional): Benayoun on a free, Honda on a free, Kasami if he's up to it.
A few more central midfielders as squad players: No idea again
I watch far less football than I used to so not much knowledge of players.
I'm not yet sold on Jol but am encouraged by our transfer dealings so far. The performances must improve next season.
He looked very happy in that fishing holiday photo ....
The club should get a Tubby Isaac's jellied eel stall, a whelk and clam pie might perk him up a bit
Jol can get players in there is no doubt about it...but can he get them to play well together consistently/....we shall see....so far the answer is "no"
Quote from: RidgeRider on June 17, 2013, 03:52:34 AM
Jol can get players in there is no doubt about it...but can he get them to play well together consistently/....we shall see....so far the answer is "no"
Can the PLAYERS do what they get paid to do and play well together?
Quote from: alfie on June 17, 2013, 08:23:35 AM
Quote from: RidgeRider on June 17, 2013, 03:52:34 AM
Jol can get players in there is no doubt about it...but can he get them to play well together consistently/....we shall see....so far the answer is "no"
Can the PLAYERS do what they get paid to do and play well together?
If they understand what Jol is on about they might.
Quote from: epsomraver on June 17, 2013, 10:34:32 AM
Quote from: alfie on June 17, 2013, 08:23:35 AM
Quote from: RidgeRider on June 17, 2013, 03:52:34 AM
Jol can get players in there is no doubt about it...but can he get them to play well together consistently/....we shall see....so far the answer is "no"
Can the PLAYERS do what they get paid to do and play well together?
If they understand what Jol is on about they might.
Is there some reason for your thinking they might not?
Some of the people who like to have little digs at Jol and the performances do have very short memories indeed.
Last season was largely uninspiring, I think we're all agreed.
But the 11/12 season gave us some of the best performances in recent Fulham times.
Under Jol, I've seen some of the worst performances I can remember (mostly this year), but he has also given us some of the best performances, on par with Tigana & Roy.
Lets not forget, there have been dire performances EVERY SINGLE YEAR since we were promoted. That's 10+ years of s**t games. You lot should know to expect it by now surely.
Quote from: RidgeRider on June 17, 2013, 03:52:34 AM
Jol can get players in there is no doubt about it...but can he get them to play well together consistently/....we shall see....so far the answer is "no"
Jol had the players playing well together in the second half of his first season and the start of last season but losing Murphy, Dembele and Diarra seemed to seriously upset the creativity and balance of the team.
I am hoping that the signing of another CM in addition to our signings so far will restore the solidity of the midfield.
Quote from: simplyfulham on June 17, 2013, 10:57:33 AM
Some of the people who like to have little digs at Jol and the performances do have very short memories indeed.
Last season was largely uninspiring, I think we're all agreed.
But the 11/12 season gave us some of the best performances in recent Fulham times.
Under Jol, I've seen some of the worst performances I can remember (mostly this year), but he has also given us some of the best performances, on par with Tigana & Roy.
Lets not forget, there have been dire performances EVERY SINGLE YEAR since we were promoted. That's 10+ years of s**t games. You lot should know to expect it by now surely.
So we have been inconsistant mostly during the same 90 minutes and that is the problem. It seems odd that people keep pointing out the odd ten minutes here and five minutes there. Yes Jol has been in charge when we have seen Fulham play some good football. But the next minute we look disjointed and poor. On the whole I think the away games at QPR etc etc last season outweigh the odd spell away to Arsenal where we showed flashes of good play. I have never been convinced that we play to our strengths under Jol. But it's another season so we start again. Nothing has changed my opinion but I am hoping that Jol proves next season he can command a Fulham side to complete a good 90 minute display.
Quote from: Lighthouse on June 17, 2013, 11:14:38 AM
Quote from: simplyfulham on June 17, 2013, 10:57:33 AM
Some of the people who like to have little digs at Jol and the performances do have very short memories indeed.
Last season was largely uninspiring, I think we're all agreed.
But the 11/12 season gave us some of the best performances in recent Fulham times.
Under Jol, I've seen some of the worst performances I can remember (mostly this year), but he has also given us some of the best performances, on par with Tigana & Roy.
Lets not forget, there have been dire performances EVERY SINGLE YEAR since we were promoted. That's 10+ years of s**t games. You lot should know to expect it by now surely.
So we have been inconsistant mostly during the same 90 minutes and that is the problem. It seems odd that people keep pointing out the odd ten minutes here and five minutes there. Yes Jol has been in charge when we have seen Fulham play some good football. But the next minute we look disjointed and poor. On the whole I think the away games at QPR etc etc last season outweigh the odd spell away to Arsenal where we showed flashes of good play. I have never been convinced that we play to our strengths under Jol. But it's another season so we start again. Nothing has changed my opinion but I am hoping that Jol proves next season he can command a Fulham side to complete a good 90 minute display.
I somewhat agree with this, at times we were putting square pegs in round holes in terms of making use of what we have. Some players simply aren't suited to Jol's tactics.
That is why he's bringing in so many new players. He's a stubborn guy and he can only play one way so he's ensuring the players can play that way too.
Quote from: The Moose on June 17, 2013, 11:29:00 AM
Quote from: Lighthouse on June 17, 2013, 11:14:38 AM
Quote from: simplyfulham on June 17, 2013, 10:57:33 AM
Some of the people who like to have little digs at Jol and the performances do have very short memories indeed.
Last season was largely uninspiring, I think we're all agreed.
But the 11/12 season gave us some of the best performances in recent Fulham times.
Under Jol, I've seen some of the worst performances I can remember (mostly this year), but he has also given us some of the best performances, on par with Tigana & Roy.
Lets not forget, there have been dire performances EVERY SINGLE YEAR since we were promoted. That's 10+ years of s**t games. You lot should know to expect it by now surely.
So we have been inconsistant mostly during the same 90 minutes and that is the problem. It seems odd that people keep pointing out the odd ten minutes here and five minutes there. Yes Jol has been in charge when we have seen Fulham play some good football. But the next minute we look disjointed and poor. On the whole I think the away games at QPR etc etc last season outweigh the odd spell away to Arsenal where we showed flashes of good play. I have never been convinced that we play to our strengths under Jol. But it's another season so we start again. Nothing has changed my opinion but I am hoping that Jol proves next season he can command a Fulham side to complete a good 90 minute display.
I somewhat agree with this, at times we were putting square pegs in round holes in terms of making use of what we have. Some players simply aren't suited to Jol's tactics.
That is why he's bringing in so many new players. He's a stubborn guy and he can only play one way so he's ensuring the players can play that way too.
Could we have an explanation of who these square pegs are and what tactics they struggle with?
Jol is bringing in new players because we need better players and younger players (we hope). We will probably lose those players out of contract but do we see any signs of wholesale offloading of those `non-Jol' players in contract to make way for `Jol' players?
In what way is Jol stubborn so can he only play one way? The style of the team is in many ways determined by the players available. Jol played with a target man when we had Zamora and Pogrebnyak. Berbatov, Petric and Rodallega are not that sort of forward and, in turn, are different from each other. Jol continued with Hodgson's inside out wide men with Duff, Davies and Dempsey but now we are edging towards more normal wide men when we play Dejagah and Kacanikilic. When Murphy with his passing game was fading he was replaced by Dembele and his running game. It seems to me that Jol has had to be flexible given the changing circumstances.
And that is his problem, you play to your players strengths and not just because that is the way you want, apparently Jol is known for constantly changing his mind every Monday , shame this doesn't extend to getting the best out of the players and play a formation that suits all not just Mr Big, the confusion is plain to see on the pitch.
Quote from: Lighthouse on June 17, 2013, 11:14:38 AM
So we have been inconsistant mostly during the same 90 minutes and that is the problem. It seems odd that people keep pointing out the odd ten minutes here and five minutes there. Yes Jol has been in charge when we have seen Fulham play some good football. But the next minute we look disjointed and poor. On the whole I think the away games at QPR etc etc last season outweigh the odd spell away to Arsenal where we showed flashes of good play. I have never been convinced that we play to our strengths under Jol. But it's another season so we start again. Nothing has changed my opinion but I am hoping that Jol proves next season he can command a Fulham side to complete a good 90 minute display.
Lighthouse, personally I feel your assessment is a bit harsh, but broadly fair.
It could be argued we have looked disjointed and poor, mainly because we are. I don't see the link to that being Jol's fault other then he is our current manager. It's a time of great change for the club, in a period where the squad of 3/4 years ago is coming to it's natural conclusion.
Below is our
most used squad from 2011/12 and our
most used squad from this season (2012/13).
2011/12 2012/13Schwarzer Schwarzer
Kelly Riether
Hangeland Hangeland
Senderos Hughes
Riise Riise
Duff Duff
Murphy Sidwell
Dembele Karagounis
Dempsey Kacaniklic
Johnson Ruiz
Zamora Berbatov
What this shows is the upheavals that this team is going through at the moment. We have lost basically an entire midfield and attack. That's a lot compared with most teams in and around us.
You may well feel we haven't got the best out of our squad under Jol and have appeared disjointed and poor.
I would say, with perspective, that is to be expected - while this squad settles down and figures out what it's strengths are.
This is why I say it's more important to focus on the things that have gone well recently, as few and far between as they maybe, as they are giving us a glimpse as to what we are aspiring towards.
Quote from: epsomraver on June 17, 2013, 11:59:38 AM
And that is his problem, you play to your players strengths and not just because that is the way you want, apparently Jol is known for constantly changing his mind every Monday , shame this doesn't extend to getting the best out of the players and play a formation that suits all not just Mr Big, the confusion is plain to see on the pitch.
I am confused.
According to some Jol can only play one way and to others " . . . apparently Jol is known for constantly changing his mind every Monday".
It seems Mr Jol is secure for the moment. His critics (including me) remain unimpressed by so many apparent shortcomings but it is not my intention to go over that old ground again today. Next season he will have a team that is almost entirely of his making, with two full pre seasons under his belt.
If he is any good at all as a manager then it is high time we started to do rather better in terms of results and more importantly performances.
One thing that will kill us, and probably his longevity at Fulham too, will be if he persists with 'the untouchable' policy towards certian players and his dislike and demotivational approach to others.
Based on what we have so far seen my opinion is that it is likely we will just see more of the same patchy perormances and a rather demotivated squad. I really hope I am wrong, I long for managers like MacDonald and Adams that really took what they were given and galavanised them into life!
Impressed by new signings. Squad looks decent now, competition for places but mainly in midfield.
Concerned by lack of pace and possibility of too many games with slow, slow build up. (wait and see)
Hoping for safety by March and NO suitcases packed for the holidays in April. Jol has to keep players motivated til the END of the season, not just 40 points. Fans pay too much for some of the dross dished up last season.
Top half is achievable (on paper).
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on June 17, 2013, 11:54:48 AM
Quote from: The Moose on June 17, 2013, 11:29:00 AM
Quote from: Lighthouse on June 17, 2013, 11:14:38 AM
Quote from: simplyfulham on June 17, 2013, 10:57:33 AM
Some of the people who like to have little digs at Jol and the performances do have very short memories indeed.
Last season was largely uninspiring, I think we're all agreed.
But the 11/12 season gave us some of the best performances in recent Fulham times.
Under Jol, I've seen some of the worst performances I can remember (mostly this year), but he has also given us some of the best performances, on par with Tigana & Roy.
Lets not forget, there have been dire performances EVERY SINGLE YEAR since we were promoted. That's 10+ years of s**t games. You lot should know to expect it by now surely.
So we have been inconsistant mostly during the same 90 minutes and that is the problem. It seems odd that people keep pointing out the odd ten minutes here and five minutes there. Yes Jol has been in charge when we have seen Fulham play some good football. But the next minute we look disjointed and poor. On the whole I think the away games at QPR etc etc last season outweigh the odd spell away to Arsenal where we showed flashes of good play. I have never been convinced that we play to our strengths under Jol. But it's another season so we start again. Nothing has changed my opinion but I am hoping that Jol proves next season he can command a Fulham side to complete a good 90 minute display.
I somewhat agree with this, at times we were putting square pegs in round holes in terms of making use of what we have. Some players simply aren't suited to Jol's tactics.
That is why he's bringing in so many new players. He's a stubborn guy and he can only play one way so he's ensuring the players can play that way too.
Could we have an explanation of who these square pegs are and what tactics they struggle with?
Jol is bringing in new players because we need better players and younger players (we hope). We will probably lose those players out of contract but do we see any signs of wholesale offloading of those `non-Jol' players in contract to make way for `Jol' players?
In what way is Jol stubborn so can he only play one way? The style of the team is in many ways determined by the players available. Jol played with a target man when we had Zamora and Pogrebnyak. Berbatov, Petric and Rodallega are not that sort of forward and, in turn, are different from each other. Jol continued with Hodgson's inside out wide men with Duff, Davies and Dempsey but now we are edging towards more normal wide men when we play Dejagah and Kacanikilic. When Murphy with his passing game was fading he was replaced by Dembele and his running game. It seems to me that Jol has had to be flexible given the changing circumstances.
Schwarzer can't avoid the temptation to kick ling despite not having a target man, Hufges can't play ball playing defender, Riise too slow for attacking full back, no creative central midfielder meaning Berba and Ruiz drop deep to compensate.
I agree the season before he was very pragmatic, but it's in his nature to play a certain way.
He was badly let down last summer. I have faith we'll have a good season.
Quote from: The Moose on June 17, 2013, 01:36:56 PM
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on June 17, 2013, 11:54:48 AM
Quote from: The Moose on June 17, 2013, 11:29:00 AM
Quote from: Lighthouse on June 17, 2013, 11:14:38 AM
Quote from: simplyfulham on June 17, 2013, 10:57:33 AM
Some of the people who like to have little digs at Jol and the performances do have very short memories indeed.
Last season was largely uninspiring, I think we're all agreed.
But the 11/12 season gave us some of the best performances in recent Fulham times.
Under Jol, I've seen some of the worst performances I can remember (mostly this year), but he has also given us some of the best performances, on par with Tigana & Roy.
Lets not forget, there have been dire performances EVERY SINGLE YEAR since we were promoted. That's 10+ years of s**t games. You lot should know to expect it by now surely.
So we have been inconsistant mostly during the same 90 minutes and that is the problem. It seems odd that people keep pointing out the odd ten minutes here and five minutes there. Yes Jol has been in charge when we have seen Fulham play some good football. But the next minute we look disjointed and poor. On the whole I think the away games at QPR etc etc last season outweigh the odd spell away to Arsenal where we showed flashes of good play. I have never been convinced that we play to our strengths under Jol. But it's another season so we start again. Nothing has changed my opinion but I am hoping that Jol proves next season he can command a Fulham side to complete a good 90 minute display.
I somewhat agree with this, at times we were putting square pegs in round holes in terms of making use of what we have. Some players simply aren't suited to Jol's tactics.
That is why he's bringing in so many new players. He's a stubborn guy and he can only play one way so he's ensuring the players can play that way too.
Could we have an explanation of who these square pegs are and what tactics they struggle with?
Jol is bringing in new players because we need better players and younger players (we hope). We will probably lose those players out of contract but do we see any signs of wholesale offloading of those `non-Jol' players in contract to make way for `Jol' players?
In what way is Jol stubborn so can he only play one way? The style of the team is in many ways determined by the players available. Jol played with a target man when we had Zamora and Pogrebnyak. Berbatov, Petric and Rodallega are not that sort of forward and, in turn, are different from each other. Jol continued with Hodgson's inside out wide men with Duff, Davies and Dempsey but now we are edging towards more normal wide men when we play Dejagah and Kacanikilic. When Murphy with his passing game was fading he was replaced by Dembele and his running game. It seems to me that Jol has had to be flexible given the changing circumstances.
Schwarzer can't avoid the temptation to kick ling despite not having a target man, Hufges can't play ball playing defender, Riise too slow for attacking full back, no creative central midfielder meaning Berba and Ruiz drop deep to compensate.
I agree the season before he was very pragmatic, but it's in his nature to play a certain way.
He was badly let down last summer. I have faith we'll have a good season.
I can agree with all these individual problems and others such as that Berbatov and Ruiz often don't look equal to the sum of their parts let alone exceed them (but I would keep playing our best two players and work on getting it right) but that is the hand that Jol has been dealt.
From his signings of Sketelenburg, Amorebieta and Boateng it looks as though Jol fully understands those problems and I hope signings of a central midfielder and striker will solve our other major weaknesses. Then it is down to improving consistency and performances.
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on June 17, 2013, 12:15:50 PM
Quote from: epsomraver on June 17, 2013, 11:59:38 AM
And that is his problem, you play to your players strengths and not just because that is the way you want, apparently Jol is known for constantly changing his mind every Monday , shame this doesn't extend to getting the best out of the players and play a formation that suits all not just Mr Big, the confusion is plain to see on the pitch.
I am confused.
According to some Jol can only play one way and to others " . . . apparently Jol is known for constantly changing his mind every Monday".
He is entirely confusing, constantly changing parts and formations with no clear plan, at least to this uneducated football fan, his one way is to always be tinkering. It's not working.
Quote from: RidgeRider on June 17, 2013, 02:28:37 PM
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on June 17, 2013, 12:15:50 PM
Quote from: epsomraver on June 17, 2013, 11:59:38 AM
And that is his problem, you play to your players strengths and not just because that is the way you want, apparently Jol is known for constantly changing his mind every Monday , shame this doesn't extend to getting the best out of the players and play a formation that suits all not just Mr Big, the confusion is plain to see on the pitch.
I am confused.
According to some Jol can only play one way and to others " . . . apparently Jol is known for constantly changing his mind every Monday".
He is entirely confusing, constantly changing parts and formations with no clear plan, at least to this uneducated football fan, his one way is to always be tinkering. It's not working.
Please read my post again. I was pointing out that some anti-jol poster in this thread said Jol is stubborn and won't change and another, and now you, say that he is always changing. So how can both sides be right? Or is it that he is stubbornly tinkering? And what on earth could that mean?
And I don't feel enlightened by your post either. What was he constantly changing when he did not have to because of injuries? Similarly, how was our formation being constantly changed (again if not for injuries)?
The same 'some say this and some say that argument' has been used before and still makes no sense. Those who cause division want to make us take sides. Some people don't like Jol for one reason and others for another in the same way Jol supporters are very contradictory in their views. These are just view points and we debate them and that is it. But there are no sides other than we all follow the same side.
I reserve the right to debate against a poster on one point and agree with him or her on another point.
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on June 17, 2013, 02:39:23 PM
Quote from: RidgeRider on June 17, 2013, 02:28:37 PM
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on June 17, 2013, 12:15:50 PM
Quote from: epsomraver on June 17, 2013, 11:59:38 AM
And that is his problem, you play to your players strengths and not just because that is the way you want, apparently Jol is known for constantly changing his mind every Monday , shame this doesn't extend to getting the best out of the players and play a formation that suits all not just Mr Big, the confusion is plain to see on the pitch.
I am confused.
According to some Jol can only play one way and to others " . . . apparently Jol is known for constantly changing his mind every Monday".
He is entirely confusing, constantly changing parts and formations with no clear plan, at least to this uneducated football fan, his one way is to always be tinkering. It's not working.
Please read my post again. I was pointing out that some anti-jol poster in this thread said Jol is stubborn and won't change and another, and now you, say that he is always changing. So how can both sides be right? Or is it that he is stubbornly tinkering? And what on earth could that mean?
And I don't feel enlightened by your post either. What was he constantly changing when he did not have to because of injuries? Similarly, how was our formation being constantly changed (again if not for injuries)?
I never feel enlightened by your posts however I am polite enough to not point it out.
Posters like yourself, constantly blame injuries, red cards, and losing of Dembele and Dempsey for our poor form while writing how great he is in getting players. I agree with that point but sir, at some point you are going to have to accept the manager is responsible for what happens on the field and quit making excuses for him. EVERY Premier league manager has to manage player losses, injuries, etc. The good ones figure out how to do it. He has not.
Hodgson had us winning agains the big 4, with a far less talented squad. Hodgson was stubborn as well, but he had a plan.
You can keep making excuses for him, that's your choice, but I only have to remember the displays of very poor play this season to know what the truth has been.
Quote from: RidgeRider on June 17, 2013, 02:51:04 PM
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on June 17, 2013, 02:39:23 PM
Quote from: RidgeRider on June 17, 2013, 02:28:37 PM
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on June 17, 2013, 12:15:50 PM
Quote from: epsomraver on June 17, 2013, 11:59:38 AM
And that is his problem, you play to your players strengths and not just because that is the way you want, apparently Jol is known for constantly changing his mind every Monday , shame this doesn't extend to getting the best out of the players and play a formation that suits all not just Mr Big, the confusion is plain to see on the pitch.
I am confused.
According to some Jol can only play one way and to others " . . . apparently Jol is known for constantly changing his mind every Monday".
He is entirely confusing, constantly changing parts and formations with no clear plan, at least to this uneducated football fan, his one way is to always be tinkering. It's not working.
Please read my post again. I was pointing out that some anti-jol poster in this thread said Jol is stubborn and won't change and another, and now you, say that he is always changing. So how can both sides be right? Or is it that he is stubbornly tinkering? And what on earth could that mean?
And I don't feel enlightened by your post either. What was he constantly changing when he did not have to because of injuries? Similarly, how was our formation being constantly changed (again if not for injuries)?
I never feel enlightened by your posts however I am polite enough to not point it out.
Posters like yourself, constantly blame injuries, red cards, and losing of Dembele and Dempsey for our poor form while writing how great he is in getting players. I agree with that point but sir, at some point you are going to have to accept the manager is responsible for what happens on the field and quit making excuses for him. EVERY Premier league manager has to manage player losses, injuries, etc. The good ones figure out how to do it. He has not.
Hodgson had us winning agains the big 4, with a far less talented squad. Hodgson was stubborn as well, but he had a plan.
You can keep making excuses for him, that's your choice, but I only have to remember the displays of very poor play this season to know what the truth has been.
RR can I direct you to my earlier post about the failing memories of Fulham fans.. :048:
Quote from: RidgeRider on June 17, 2013, 02:51:04 PM
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on June 17, 2013, 02:39:23 PM
Quote from: RidgeRider on June 17, 2013, 02:28:37 PM
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on June 17, 2013, 12:15:50 PM
Quote from: epsomraver on June 17, 2013, 11:59:38 AM
And that is his problem, you play to your players strengths and not just because that is the way you want, apparently Jol is known for constantly changing his mind every Monday , shame this doesn't extend to getting the best out of the players and play a formation that suits all not just Mr Big, the confusion is plain to see on the pitch.
I am confused.
According to some Jol can only play one way and to others " . . . apparently Jol is known for constantly changing his mind every Monday".
He is entirely confusing, constantly changing parts and formations with no clear plan, at least to this uneducated football fan, his one way is to always be tinkering. It's not working.
Please read my post again. I was pointing out that some anti-jol poster in this thread said Jol is stubborn and won't change and another, and now you, say that he is always changing. So how can both sides be right? Or is it that he is stubbornly tinkering? And what on earth could that mean?
And I don't feel enlightened by your post either. What was he constantly changing when he did not have to because of injuries? Similarly, how was our formation being constantly changed (again if not for injuries)?
I never feel enlightened by your posts however I am polite enough to not point it out.
Posters like yourself, constantly blame injuries, red cards, and losing of Dembele and Dempsey for our poor form while writing how great he is in getting players. I agree with that point but sir, at some point you are going to have to accept the manager is responsible for what happens on the field and quit making excuses for him. EVERY Premier league manager has to manage player losses, injuries, etc. The good ones figure out how to do it. He has not.
Hodgson had us winning agains the big 4, with a far less talented squad. Hodgson was stubborn as well, but he had a plan.
You can keep making excuses for him, that's your choice, but I only have to remember the displays of very poor play this season to know what the truth has been.
I asked two questions that I am happy to receive an answer to from any in the negative camp: how can Jol be both stubborn and constantly tinkering? what was Jol constantly changing?
Your reply does not address these questions.
You instead try to characterize those in the non-negative camp. I don't see anyone saying Jol is the best thing since sliced bread. I don't even recall anyone saying that we have had anything better than a disappointing season. I don't recall anyone saying that we don't need to find an effective style and be more consistent. All that is so obvious that most have taken it for granted.
Hodgson had a plan, he brought it together very quickly and it worked very well. But he, understandably, left for bigger things because he knew that significant changes would have to be made for us to progress. And don't you recall all the comments that our PL (as opposed to the Europa League) style was effective but too negative. And another thing was that we were quite lucky under Hodgson to have few injuries or sending offs (given his limited squad) so he could play a regular team.
Quote from: simplyfulham on June 17, 2013, 02:59:37 PM
Quote from: RidgeRider on June 17, 2013, 02:51:04 PM
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on June 17, 2013, 02:39:23 PM
Quote from: RidgeRider on June 17, 2013, 02:28:37 PM
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on June 17, 2013, 12:15:50 PM
Quote from: epsomraver on June 17, 2013, 11:59:38 AM
And that is his problem, you play to your players strengths and not just because that is the way you want, apparently Jol is known for constantly changing his mind every Monday , shame this doesn't extend to getting the best out of the players and play a formation that suits all not just Mr Big, the confusion is plain to see on the pitch.
I am confused.
According to some Jol can only play one way and to others " . . . apparently Jol is known for constantly changing his mind every Monday".
He is entirely confusing, constantly changing parts and formations with no clear plan, at least to this uneducated football fan, his one way is to always be tinkering. It's not working.
Please read my post again. I was pointing out that some anti-jol poster in this thread said Jol is stubborn and won't change and another, and now you, say that he is always changing. So how can both sides be right? Or is it that he is stubbornly tinkering? And what on earth could that mean?
And I don't feel enlightened by your post either. What was he constantly changing when he did not have to because of injuries? Similarly, how was our formation being constantly changed (again if not for injuries)?
I never feel enlightened by your posts however I am polite enough to not point it out.
Posters like yourself, constantly blame injuries, red cards, and losing of Dembele and Dempsey for our poor form while writing how great he is in getting players. I agree with that point but sir, at some point you are going to have to accept the manager is responsible for what happens on the field and quit making excuses for him. EVERY Premier league manager has to manage player losses, injuries, etc. The good ones figure out how to do it. He has not.
Hodgson had us winning agains the big 4, with a far less talented squad. Hodgson was stubborn as well, but he had a plan.
You can keep making excuses for him, that's your choice, but I only have to remember the displays of very poor play this season to know what the truth has been.
RR can I direct you to my earlier post about the failing memories of Fulham fans.. :048:
With all the new signings, that trend of change is likely to continue. I guess we better hold on to our seats as we are probably looking at another up and down season. Good post though and you make a good point,
I hope others understand that I, and others, remain highly suspect and unimpressed with our manager's stint thus far (except his ability to acquire talent) with Fulham. I doubt any of us would mind being completely wrong, if we start to play well again. :048:
Quote from: RidgeRider on June 17, 2013, 02:51:04 PM
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on June 17, 2013, 02:39:23 PM
Quote from: RidgeRider on June 17, 2013, 02:28:37 PM
Quote from: Apprentice to the Maestro on June 17, 2013, 12:15:50 PM
Quote from: epsomraver on June 17, 2013, 11:59:38 AM
And that is his problem, you play to your players strengths and not just because that is the way you want, apparently Jol is known for constantly changing his mind every Monday , shame this doesn't extend to getting the best out of the players and play a formation that suits all not just Mr Big, the confusion is plain to see on the pitch.
I am confused.
According to some Jol can only play one way and to others " . . . apparently Jol is known for constantly changing his mind every Monday".
He is entirely confusing, constantly changing parts and formations with no clear plan, at least to this uneducated football fan, his one way is to always be tinkering. It's not working.
Please read my post again. I was pointing out that some anti-jol poster in this thread said Jol is stubborn and won't change and another, and now you, say that he is always changing. So how can both sides be right? Or is it that he is stubbornly tinkering? And what on earth could that mean?
And I don't feel enlightened by your post either. What was he constantly changing when he did not have to because of injuries? Similarly, how was our formation being constantly changed (again if not for injuries)?
I never feel enlightened by your posts however I am polite enough to not point it out.
Posters like yourself, constantly blame injuries, red cards, and losing of Dembele and Dempsey for our poor form while writing how great he is in getting players. I agree with that point but sir, at some point you are going to have to accept the manager is responsible for what happens on the field and quit making excuses for him. EVERY Premier league manager has to manage player losses, injuries, etc. The good ones figure out how to do it. He has not.
Hodgson had us winning agains the big 4, with a far less talented squad. Hodgson was stubborn as well, but he had a plan.
You can keep making excuses for him, that's your choice, but I only have to remember the displays of very poor play this season to know what the truth has been.
Yes, every manager has to manage player losses, injuries, etc.. Yes, Jol should have done better.
But pointing out the injuries, red cards and loss of key players is not simply making excuses but putting our situation in context.
Do you not think that if nothing else changed that we would have been better with a fully fit Diarra playing all season? Should we have coped just as well when playing playing with 10 men and not being able to pick Hangeland and Sidwell for those 10 games? Do you think that all those posters on here mourning the loss of Dembele and Dempsey are just a load of wimps and that we should have done just as well with Sidwell and Rodallega.
All these enforced changes disrupt the rhythm and the formation of the team.
