When we're discussing possible team selection, formation etc he's always there? Maybe I'm missing something but I find him pretty useless! He's had 2 seasons to adapt to the premier league & I still don't know what he offers? He doesn't score a lot, his assists aren't great, rarely takes players on, (successfully anyway) & is very light weight.
People put him in their line-ups purely because Jol does it every week. He's always selected, so we all automatically include him too.
He has great hair
May as well have something nice to look at whilst the football's s***
i certainly dont. but as sussexwhite says, jol always picks him, and its getting on my nerves.
Ruiz is included in most teams because Jol bought him and will not drop him.
More importantly Ruiz is easily the most talented player we have. If we can ask him not to defend just outside his own area, or try and dribble out of his own half he can do damage to the opposition.
The problem has always been that Ruiz has had to pick up the ball deep, try and beat 5 players before he even gets to the halfway line. IF we buy a proper striker then Ruiz can at least play to his strengths when asked not to defend. Then we may see the best of him. With an attacking three behind a striker with two defensive midfield players or however Jol wants to play it. We may find Ruiz having his best season.
This season could be his last chance to prove he is good enough. He has played very well at times but not often enough I think. A lot of money was invested in him so my guess is Jol keeps hoping he will get some consistency.
For what it is worth, didn't someone post his stats and they were actually quite good.??
His biggest problem could be that he gets caught in possession too much and everyone remembers that only. Therefore he become too slow, too weak etc.
Question...what is the worst offence? Give the ball away by getting caught in possession or a poor pass. I think the former is the one which sticks. Just asking.
He is creative. The problem is that he loses the ball too much, sometimes in very dangerous areas which leads to very tense cituations in front of our goal.
With Bent coming, I would love to see Berba-Bent partnership, which will put Ruiz on the bench a little bit, cause he is no CM
He isn't in my 11....
He needs to come up with the goods this season. Two years with us is more than enough time for him now to start proving himself to be worthy of his continued selection.There are times when it feels like we only have 10 men on the pitch. Shape up or ship out Ruiz.
Quote from: fulhamking on August 15, 2013, 12:18:30 PM
He is creative. The problem is that he loses the ball too much, sometimes in very dangerous areas which leads to very tense cituations in front of our goal.
The point is, to use him properly, he's not supposed to have to be in those areas to lose the ball..
I think I just had a penny drop moment there.. Maybe Ruiz ISN'T as crap as I think?
Quote from: Buffalo76 on August 15, 2013, 12:52:56 PM
He needs to come up with the goods this season. Two years with us is more than enough time for him now to start proving himself to be worthy of his continued selection.There are times when it feels like we only have 10 men on the pitch. Shape up or ship out Ruiz.
Well said there sir. Totally agree - whether its Ruiz or Jols tactics fault, if he doesn't produce the goods, he has to go.
Quote from: Aaron on August 15, 2013, 12:58:44 PM
Quote from: fulhamking on August 15, 2013, 12:18:30 PM
He is creative. The problem is that he loses the ball too much, sometimes in very dangerous areas which leads to very tense cituations in front of our goal.
The point is, to use him properly, he's not supposed to have to be in those areas to lose the ball..
I think I just had a penny drop moment there.. Maybe Ruiz ISN'T as crap as I think?
The problem my friend is, while Ruiz shouldn't be in those areas to lose the ball in the first place, his good friend sidwell always is and does so lose the ball very often for him ;)))
I think the reason Ruiz seems to lose the ball so much is because he has the ball a lot, just like Murphy.
I would certainly have him in my 11 because at times he has looked oh so close to a very, very dangerous player. If we keep backing him this season he may well show us all what he can do.
If he has a terrible start to the season I will be happy if he is dropped, but not now.
Quote from: Matt Inglis on August 15, 2013, 01:47:08 PM
I think the reason Ruiz seems to lose the ball so much is because he has the ball a lot, just like Murphy.
I would certainly have him in my 11 because at times he has looked oh so close to a very, very dangerous player. If we keep backing him this season he may well show us all what he can do.
If he has a terrible start to the season I will be happy if he is dropped, but not now.
This is spot on, Ruiz often comes in for a lot of criticism due to his eagerness to get on the ball so much. Often when the team is playing badly the other shy away and hide but he continues to want the ball, even if he has no options for a pass when he has it. Said plainly, Ruiz is one of our best players and should start if he is fit.
This is how I think we should start against sunderland
(http://www.footballuser.com/formations/2013/08/797719_Fulham.jpg)
Forgot to put Stekelenburg in goal but that pretty much goes without saying.
Because he's Martin Jol's 'darling'
Because he's teachers pet.
Or maybe his son?
Quote from: MJG on August 15, 2013, 02:31:54 PM
Because he's teachers pet.
Or maybe his son?
They certainly look alike.....
he's jols fav
He has had to be jack of all trades due to the lack of any other creative midfielder. With a new player behind him who can link between defence & Ruiz in a real No.10 position we will see the real McCoy.
I flippin' well hope so.
Technically the best footballer in our squad. That's my guess.
I'm guessing he was on 2nd scoring and first in assists last year, call it common sense
Quote from: Azeedo on August 15, 2013, 05:51:15 PM
I'm guessing he was on 2nd scoring and first in assists last year, call it common sense
Seriously??? I doubt that very much
He's a talented player and for all his failings he was one of the more productive players last season. He was a necessary starter due to our lack of creativity, however with the arrival of Taarabt that's no longer the case. Finally some healthy competition, he'll have to become more effective to keep his place.
Quote from: Fulham76 on August 15, 2013, 09:10:40 PM
Quote from: Azeedo on August 15, 2013, 05:51:15 PM
I'm guessing he was on 2nd scoring and first in assists last year, call it common sense
Seriously??? I doubt that very much
Yes really.
Quote from: Lighthouse on August 15, 2013, 12:15:04 PM
Ruiz is included in most teams because Jol bought him and will not drop him.
More importantly Ruiz is easily the most talented player we have. If we can ask him not to defend just outside his own area, or try and dribble out of his own half he can do damage to the opposition.
The problem has always been that Ruiz has had to pick up the ball deep, try and beat 5 players before he even gets to the halfway line. IF we buy a proper striker then Ruiz can at least play to his strengths when asked not to defend. Then we may see the best of him. With an attacking three behind a striker with two defensive midfield players or however Jol wants to play it. We may find Ruiz having his best season.
:plus one: :plus one: :plus one: :plus one: :plus one: :plus one:
Also its not coincidence that our poor patch of form last season was also at the same time that Ruiz was injured for however many weeks and once he returned our performances improved. 4 goals and 7 assists for us last season...hes improved!
Quote from: The Moose on August 15, 2013, 09:13:14 PM
Quote from: Fulham76 on August 15, 2013, 09:10:40 PM
Quote from: Azeedo on August 15, 2013, 05:51:15 PM
I'm guessing he was on 2nd scoring and first in assists last year, call it common sense
Seriously??? I doubt that very much
Yes really.
I saw most games last season & I disagree. Few goals, few assists, can't take players on.... Little more than average. I don't get this 'he's out of position' argument. He's out of his league more like.
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/fulham-fc/leistungsdaten/verein_931_GB1_2012.html (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/fulham-fc/leistungsdaten/verein_931_GB1_2012.html)
Azeedo is right. If you're going to slate a player based on his lack of contribution, it helps to have done your homework first.
Quote from: Fulham76 on August 15, 2013, 09:58:19 PM
Quote from: The Moose on August 15, 2013, 09:13:14 PM
Quote from: Fulham76 on August 15, 2013, 09:10:40 PM
Quote from: Azeedo on August 15, 2013, 05:51:15 PM
I'm guessing he was on 2nd scoring and first in assists last year, call it common sense
Seriously??? I doubt that very much
Yes really.
I saw most games last season & I disagree. Few goals, few assists, can't take players on.... Little more than average. I don't get this 'he's out of position' argument. He's out of his league more like.
Well the stars don't lie. He scored the second most goals and got the most assists. Sorry that doesn't fit in with your opinion.
Quote from: CanadianCottager on August 15, 2013, 10:53:46 PM
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/fulham-fc/leistungsdaten/verein_931_GB1_2012.html (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/fulham-fc/leistungsdaten/verein_931_GB1_2012.html)
Azeedo is right. If you're going to slate a player based on his lack of contribution, it helps to have done your homework first.
Attending about 30 games last year isn't homework? Probably best for you stick to your dopey stats!
Ruiz is a good player, he will certainly have to earn his place if Bent signs
Can see this being our line up this season:
(http://footballformation.co.uk/team/442/150813220958.png)
It'll certainly be interesting to see how Jol utilises his direct wingers (Dejagah, Kaca, Frei, Mesca and to some extent Duff) and attacking midfielders (Ruiz, Taarabt and Kasami) because that's a lot of players who competes for the same 2 or 3 places in the team.
Quote from: Fulham76 on August 15, 2013, 11:03:41 PM
Quote from: CanadianCottager on August 15, 2013, 10:53:46 PM
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/fulham-fc/leistungsdaten/verein_931_GB1_2012.html (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/fulham-fc/leistungsdaten/verein_931_GB1_2012.html)
Azeedo is right. If you're going to slate a player based on his lack of contribution, it helps to have done your homework first.
Attending about 30 games last year isn't homework? Probably best for you stick to your dopey stats!
Cheers and I will. Opinions based on sight are objective. Numbers aren't, and that's why I prefer to take a look at them before passing a judgement on player. Watching at the stadium is a brilliant experience that I would love to be able to do more often, but it's not the best parameter of how a player performs, it's very easy to mistake players for each other or simply forget what players do on the field. As far as his contributions for Fulham last season go, most assists, most goals after Berbatov, the most successful dribbles of an opposing player per game, the most chances created per game, all according to the stats geeks at OPTA. But heck, what do they know about football.
Quote from: Fulham76 on August 15, 2013, 12:01:49 PM
When we're discussing possible team selection, formation etc he's always there? Maybe I'm missing something but I find him pretty useless! He's had 2 seasons to adapt to the premier league & I still don't know what he offers? He doesn't score a lot, his assists aren't great, rarely takes players on, (successfully anyway) & is very light weight.
Maybe because -- in their opinion -- he's part of our best XI. People are allowed to have opinions that differ with you, you know.
Quote from: HatterDon on August 16, 2013, 12:40:44 AM
Quote from: Fulham76 on August 15, 2013, 12:01:49 PM
When we're discussing possible team selection, formation etc he's always there? Maybe I'm missing something but I find him pretty useless! He's had 2 seasonhs to adapt to the premier league & I still don't know what he offers? He doesn't score a lot, his assists aren't great, rarely takes players on, (successfully anyway) & is very light weight.
Maybe because -- in their opinion -- he's part of our best XI. People are allowed to have opinions that differ with you, you know.
Yeah, nice one. Top comment, (not really!). I know that, goes without saying... But, my point is, (and having watched him lots - live), he's not one of our best 11 based on contribution, kaka, even Frei offer much more.
I don't consider him a top player & neither do lots of our fans. Just intrigued why he's always in the starting 11 when putting the team together .
Quote from: Fulham76 on August 16, 2013, 01:25:49 AM
Quote from: HatterDon on August 16, 2013, 12:40:44 AM
Quote from: Fulham76 on August 15, 2013, 12:01:49 PM
When we're discussing possible team selection, formation etc he's always there? Maybe I'm missing something but I find him pretty useless! He's had 2 seasonhs to adapt to the premier league & I still don't know what he offers? He doesn't score a lot, his assists aren't great, rarely takes players on, (successfully anyway) & is very light weight.
Maybe because -- in their opinion -- he's part of our best XI. People are allowed to have opinions that differ with you, you know.
Yeah, nice one. Top comment, (not really!). I know that, goes without saying... But, my point is, (and having watched him lots - live), he's not one of our best 11 based on contribution, kaka, even Frei offer much more.
I don't consider him a top player & neither do lots of our fans. Just intrigued why he's always in the starting 11 when putting the team together .
Not sure what you mean by contribution. He's got the most key passes, most assists, got to be right up there with ground covered, second most goals, wins quite a few tackles. He has his faults but he definitely contributes more than Kacaniklic, and Frei. That's no dig on them it's just a fact.
Your irrational hatred of him is embarrassing.
Quote from: The Moose on August 16, 2013, 01:46:54 AM
Quote from: Fulham76 on August 16, 2013, 01:25:49 AM
Quote from: HatterDon on August 16, 2013, 12:40:44 AM
Quote from: Fulham76 on August 15, 2013, 12:01:49 PM
When we're discussing possible team selection, formation etc he's always there? Maybe I'm missing something but I find him pretty useless! He's had 2 seasonhs to adapt to the premier league & I still don't know what he offers? He doesn't score a lot, his assists aren't great, rarely takes players on, (successfully anyway) & is very light weight.
Maybe because -- in their opinion -- he's part of our best XI. People are allowed to have opinions that differ with you, you know.
Yeah, nice one. Top comment, (not really!). I know that, goes without saying... But, my point is, (and having watched him lots - live), he's not one of our best 11 based on contribution, kaka, even Frei offer much more.
I don't consider him a top player & neither do lots of our fans. Just intrigued why he's always in the starting 11 when putting the team together .
Not sure what you mean by contribution. He's got the most key passes, most assists, got to be right up there with ground covered, second most goals, wins quite a few tackles. He has his faults but he definitely contributes more than Kacaniklic, and Frei. That's no dig on them it's just a fact.
Your irrational hatred of him is embarrassing.
Not hatred, just my opinion - I'm allowed one! But who could argue with you now that you've swallowed a book of Ruiz stats? Also embarrassing.
Quote from: BlaWhiArmyyyyyy on August 15, 2013, 09:52:20 PM
Also its not coincidence that our poor patch of form last season was also at the same time that Ruiz was injured for however many weeks and once he returned our performances improved. 4 goals and 7 assists for us last season...hes improved!
I thought our poorest patch was the end of the season. He played in all those games.
this thread is embarrassing
Quote from: michaelread on August 16, 2013, 02:14:48 PM
this thread is embarrassing
Agreed mate, it's a joke!! Ruiz would walk into most teams....
Idiots. The quality of posters has definitely gone down since I started out on here. fp.gif
Quote from: The Moose on August 16, 2013, 01:46:54 AM
Quote from: Fulham76 on August 16, 2013, 01:25:49 AM
Quote from: HatterDon on August 16, 2013, 12:40:44 AM
Quote from: Fulham76 on August 15, 2013, 12:01:49 PM
When we're discussing possible team selection, formation etc he's always there? Maybe I'm missing something but I find him pretty useless! He's had 2 seasonhs to adapt to the premier league & I still don't know what he offers? He doesn't score a lot, his assists aren't great, rarely takes players on, (successfully anyway) & is very light weight.
Maybe because -- in their opinion -- he's part of our best XI. People are allowed to have opinions that differ with you, you know.
Yeah, nice one. Top comment, (not really!). I know that, goes without saying... But, my point is, (and having watched him lots - live), he's not one of our best 11 based on contribution, kaka, even Frei offer much more.
I don't consider him a top player & neither do lots of our fans. Just intrigued why he's always in the starting 11 when putting the team together .
Not sure what you mean by contribution. He's got the most key passes, most assists, got to be right up there with ground covered, second most goals, wins quite a few tackles. He has his faults but he definitely contributes more than Kacaniklic, and Frei. That's no dig on them it's just a fact.
Your irrational hatred of him is embarrassing.
just to correct you, he didn't get most assists... that would be the "past it" Damien Duff....
I believe Ruiz got 7 of which 4 were from set plays.
his score 4 goals - how did he get given the Everton goal??
from his 4 goals we gained 1 point....
he wouldn't be in my 11 as I don't particularly rate him but he does have potential. Like I said before he needs to show consistency for me and the signing of Berbatov was a negative for him.
I agree maybe some of the things said of Ruiz here are OTT but I can understand frustration when he seems to be picked regardless of how he plays and regardless of position.
This season will be interesting as with Bent signing today I cant see how RUiz would be in our best 11
EDIT - feel free to call me an idiot :54:
No one is an idiot just because they have a different opinion of a player. By all means disagree but back it up with argument why you feel X player is better or worse.
edit..well maybe Humbled is an idiot. ;-)
Jol will always start Ruiz unless he's injured, whether it be in AM, RM or even CM (shudder).
Quote from: Humbled on August 16, 2013, 02:29:14 PM
Quote from: The Moose on August 16, 2013, 01:46:54 AM
Quote from: Fulham76 on August 16, 2013, 01:25:49 AM
Quote from: HatterDon on August 16, 2013, 12:40:44 AM
Quote from: Fulham76 on August 15, 2013, 12:01:49 PM
When we're discussing possible team selection, formation etc he's always there? Maybe I'm missing something but I find him pretty useless! He's had 2 seasonhs to adapt to the premier league & I still don't know what he offers? He doesn't score a lot, his assists aren't great, rarely takes players on, (successfully anyway) & is very light weight.
Maybe because -- in their opinion -- he's part of our best XI. People are allowed to have opinions that differ with you, you know.
Yeah, nice one. Top comment, (not really!). I know that, goes without saying... But, my point is, (and having watched him lots - live), he's not one of our best 11 based on contribution, kaka, even Frei offer much more.
I don't consider him a top player & neither do lots of our fans. Just intrigued why he's always in the starting 11 when putting the team together .
Not sure what you mean by contribution. He's got the most key passes, most assists, got to be right up there with ground covered, second most goals, wins quite a few tackles. He has his faults but he definitely contributes more than Kacaniklic, and Frei. That's no dig on them it's just a fact.
Your irrational hatred of him is embarrassing.
just to correct you, he didn't get most assists... that would be the "past it" Damien Duff....
I believe Ruiz got 7 of which 4 were from set plays.
his score 4 goals - how did he get given the Everton goal??
from his 4 goals we gained 1 point....
he wouldn't be in my 11 as I don't particularly rate him but he does have potential. Like I said before he needs to show consistency for me and the signing of Berbatov was a negative for him.
I agree maybe some of the things said of Ruiz here are OTT but I can understand frustration when he seems to be picked regardless of how he plays and regardless of position.
This season will be interesting as with Bent signing today I cant see how RUiz would be in our best 11
EDIT - feel free to call me an idiot :54:
You're right Duff got one more in the Cup. Duff had a superb first half to the season but faded very badly after he got his new contract. He was fortunate to get the goal against Everton but it was an outstanding free kick none the less.
This season he will not be guaranteed his place so will have to be at his best.
Most overrated player in our squad but at the same time should probably in the starting XI as much it pains me to admit
Quote from: Frankie-Peter Taylor on August 16, 2013, 02:23:56 PM
Idiots. The quality of posters has definitely gone down since I started out on here. fp.gif
One of the most stupid comments I've seen since I started out on here.
Quote from: Fulham76 on August 16, 2013, 02:55:18 PM
Quote from: Frankie-Peter Taylor on August 16, 2013, 02:23:56 PM
Idiots. The quality of posters has definitely gone down since I started out on here. fp.gif
One of the most stupid comments I've seen since I started out on here.
Says the fella being told goal and assist stats and simply dismissing them? People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Quote from: Frankie-Peter Taylor on August 16, 2013, 02:58:06 PM
Quote from: Fulham76 on August 16, 2013, 02:55:18 PM
Quote from: Frankie-Peter Taylor on August 16, 2013, 02:23:56 PM
Idiots. The quality of posters has definitely gone down since I started out on here. fp.gif
One of the most stupid comments I've seen since I started out on here.
Says the fella being told goal and assist stats and simply dismissing them? People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Call me old fashioned but I prefer to judge players based on what I see, actually on the pitch. You don't seriously believe you can tell more about a player from a book of stats? There won't be many mangers that buy based on a sheet of stats either. Anyway, you don't see many stats revealing how often players give the ball away, get caught in possession or just generally playing badly or having a bad game, (not that I'm aware of anyway?). You can't get personal & label people idiots because some figures show he's done a few good things while ignoring his bad points! I've watched him lots & I'm not impressed. And if you read my original message I say 'unless I'm missing something'. I don't think I am but certainly won't be convinced by some numbers in a book.
Quote from: Fulham76 on August 16, 2013, 05:17:13 PM
Quote from: Frankie-Peter Taylor on August 16, 2013, 02:58:06 PM
Quote from: Fulham76 on August 16, 2013, 02:55:18 PM
Quote from: Frankie-Peter Taylor on August 16, 2013, 02:23:56 PM
Idiots. The quality of posters has definitely gone down since I started out on here. fp.gif
One of the most stupid comments I've seen since I started out on here.
Says the fella being told goal and assist stats and simply dismissing them? People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Call me old fashioned but I prefer to judge players based on what I see, actually on the pitch. You don't seriously believe you can tell more about a player from a book of stats? There won't be many mangers that buy based on a sheet of stats either. Anyway, you don't see many stats revealing how often players give the ball away, get caught in possession or just generally playing badly or having a bad game, (not that I'm aware of anyway?). You can't get personal & label people idiots because some figures show he's done a few good things while ignoring his bad points! I've watched him lots & I'm not impressed. And if you read my original message I say 'unless I'm missing something'. I don't think I am but certainly won't be convinced by some numbers in a book.
Ruiz was dispossessed an average of 2.7 times per game last season, an admittedly high sum, tied with Raheem Sterling and only Luis Suarez, Sergio Aguero and Charles N'Zongbia were dispossessed more often in the league. As for turnovers, Ruiz fared better, ranked 37th turning over the ball on an average of 1.5 times a game, putting him alongside Sergio Aguero and Carlos Tevez, as well as behind current Fulham players Dimitar Berbatov (who came in at 14th wtith 2 per game) and Adel Taarabt at 2.2 (5th highest rate in the Prem). Its a fair criticism of Ruiz, but at least in my opinion, and one that I think others share, those drawbacks are offset by his offensive production, which has already been cited here.
Quote from: Frankie-Peter Taylor on August 16, 2013, 02:23:56 PM
Idiots. The quality of posters has definitely gone down since I started out on here. fp.gif
true, but you shouldn't place all the blame on yourself, mate. :drums:
064.gif 082.gif
Someone needs to watch Moneyball great movie it's all about stats, they do matter I highly recommended http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/moneyball/trailers/ (http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/moneyball/trailers/)
Quote from: Azeedo on August 16, 2013, 10:07:16 PM
Someone needs to watch Moneyball great movie it's all about stats, they do matter I highly recommended http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/moneyball/trailers/ (http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/moneyball/trailers/)
hahahahahaha!!!
not a bad film I have to say.
think that film refers more to a Taarabt type player than a Ruiz, as in players no one want due to issues such as injuries, age, attitude etc.
Ruiz on the other hand has everything going for him except the ability to perform :hook:
If you want to really get the Moneyball message, you really need to read the book rather than see the movie.
believe in yourself :Haynes The Maestro:
as a film was mentioned did anyone see Trouble with the curve?
EDIT - again on films has anyone else seen Pain & Gain, I found it hilarious in parts and couldn't believe it when I found out it was a true story!!! Seemed a bit harsh making a joke of it in the film.
No Ruiz today. I think Jol's been reading my thread! Good man.
Quote from: Fulham76 on August 17, 2013, 02:33:55 PM
No Ruiz today. I think Jol's been reading my thread! Good man.
HA HA good man you bandit !
Quote from: Buffalo76 on August 17, 2013, 02:39:35 PM
Quote from: Fulham76 on August 17, 2013, 02:33:55 PM
No Ruiz today. I think Jol's been reading my thread! Good man.
HA HA good man you bandit !
no such luck...
simply didnt want to start Ruiz due to travelling in midweek.
Quote from: Humbled on August 17, 2013, 05:15:33 PM
Quote from: Buffalo76 on August 17, 2013, 02:39:35 PM
Quote from: Fulham76 on August 17, 2013, 02:33:55 PM
No Ruiz today. I think Jol's been reading my thread! Good man.
HA HA good man you bandit !
no such luck...
simply didnt want to start Ruiz due to travelling in midweek.
That's what he'll tell the media but I think it's pretty obvious he's been on the board & taken my advice.
