I received this unsatisfactory reply to my complaint to the club.
Have many of us written to complain or are we working on the lukewarm response to the 'Petition'?
We appreciate your feedback and please accept our apologies for any inconvenience and upset that was caused by the addition of this camera position at the Arsenal game.
New broadcast regulations were presented to all clubs for season 13/14 and these required us to add a mandatory camera position in a central area of the Johnny Haynes Stand.
We have worked hard to find a better solution, and discussed many options with the Premier League, none of which they found acceptable. We are still investigating alternative options and remain in discussions to find what we hope will be a better solution that adheres to the mandatory regulations.
Discussions remain ongoing and we will be in touch again in the very near future, both to inform you of any developments and where necessary to discuss your own circumstances and options for the remainder of the season. Please be assured that we are approaching this matter as a priority and we will represent the views and needs of our fans as we look towards our next home game, on September 14.
If you require any further information or assistance at this time, please contact our Supporter Relations Department on 0843 208 1222 (option 4)
Thanks for your continued support
Tommy Guthrie
Supporter Relations Manager
I still would.like to know who asked for a camera in that position.
I don't believe in negotiations with TV companies that the Prem Lge said they would.put a camera there. BT/SKY/NBC someone asked for it.
Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 4
is it for every game or just the ones on BT Sports? I am assuming every game if it is claimed to be a Premier League requirement....
I can only reiterate what I've said on another thread. Keep the pressure on FFC and the PL. Reply to the email. Let them know that the issue isn't going away until an acceptable solution is found
Quote from: Humbled on August 28, 2013, 08:14:37 PM
is it for every game or just the ones on BT Sports? I am assuming every game if it is claimed to be a Premier League requirement....
its a permanent fixture.
Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 4
I suspect this was a condition NBC attached to their massive bid to the league.
The story was also covered in both the Torygraph and The Sunday Times over the weekend but I'm having trouble finding links. The latter also mentioned problems at other clubs.
I'd be interested to know how many Fulham fans have actually complained in writing to the club.
Not enough for sure.
What is unsatisfactory about that response? They are working on your behalf to resolve it and have promised to keep you informed. If they can't get the thing taken down it sounds like they will offer you a reduction or other options. I don't like what has happened and feel for you, but the club are at least trying.
Surely, as a minimum, the club should immediately offer alternative seats with unrestricted views to those affected.
Here we go; http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/10266971/Premier-League-fans-have-been-put-out-of-the-picture-by-3D-cameras.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/10266971/Premier-League-fans-have-been-put-out-of-the-picture-by-3D-cameras.html)
Surely , as a minimum, the club should immediately offer alternative seats with unrestricted views to those affected. Have they not done this?
Quote from: filham on August 28, 2013, 10:02:32 PM
Surely , as a minimum, the club should immediately offer alternative seats with unrestricted views to those affected. Have they not done this?
People have sat in the same seats for years and years in some of the most expensive seats in the house. It, to a greater or lesser extent has ruined the view for about three hundred season ticket holders. In the back of F block and G , some of those fan have sat there for years and years they have paid a premium price, because they want to watch the game from the half way line ................... moving is not an option. I would not like to suggest to them that they should move, frankly it is outrageous.
This is 2013 why do they need a man to sit in a cherry picker looking at a static camera ????
I would be very surprised if the people,badly effected, would accept financial compensation ...................... I could be wrong.
Quote from: colinb on August 28, 2013, 10:01:47 PM
Here we go; http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/10266971/Premier-League-fans-have-been-put-out-of-the-picture-by-3D-cameras.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/10266971/Premier-League-fans-have-been-put-out-of-the-picture-by-3D-cameras.html)
Winter has summed it up perfectly for me in this article. But then when it comes to the billions pumped into our sport it is only when we stay at home and watch the game on these "super tv productions" will things change. Jesus wept, what next? And all this on top of increased costs of going to the bloody game. As per the paying fan is just canon fodder.
In this Day and age when cameras can be made very small and do a good job like the ones behind the goal surely an alternative can be found. The new goal ine technology does not involve cameras of this size
Another problem with modern football. Football is rapidly becoming more and more of a joke. :54:
I have to admit that I haven't seen the gantry, or witnessed the obstruction it presents to the premium seats in the stand. But shame on the club if it consented easily to the addition of the gantry in the full knowledge that its devoted ticket holders were to be disadvantaged in this way.
Sometimes it becomes very difficult to support organisations whose interest in your presence extends only to the cash you pay rather than your enjoyment of the occasion they provide.
The time is surely approaching to boycott those who seek to plunder sport for the cash it can throw up, and treat the genuine supporters with contempt as it does so. Who knows, by ditching Sky, etc. we might even improve the quality of British football as a by-product, with Premier clubs filtering cash down the pyramid, rather that blowing Sky (etc.) monopoly money on inflated-price foreigners on preposterous wages.
Shame on the club?
BS!
The club tried to come up with a raft of other options, that were all rejected by the Premier League, and their wish to sell their 'product' around the world. Like it or not, the game is global, with more international fans watching around the globe than actually attend games. This is where the money is made. This is where the money comes from to pay our players wages etc. As much as it pains me to say it, we can't have it all ways. We can't take all the riches the Premier League offers and yet still remain as if we are a lower league club.
Quote from: KCat on August 28, 2013, 10:40:29 PM
Quote from: filham on August 28, 2013, 10:02:32 PM
Surely , as a minimum, the club should immediately offer alternative seats with unrestricted views to those affected. Have they not done this?
People have sat in the same seats for years and years in some of the most expensive seats in the house. It, to a greater or lesser extent has ruined the view for about three hundred season ticket holders. In the back of F block and G , some of those fan have sat there for years and years they have paid a premium price, because they want to watch the game from the half way line ................... moving is not an option. I would not like to suggest to them that they should move, frankly it is outrageous.
This is 2013 why do they need a man to sit in a cherry picker looking at a static camera ????
I would be very surprised if the people,badly effected, would accept financial compensation ...................... I could be wrong.
You are describing me in your reply. I have sat in my seat, the same seat for 50+ years, always as a season ticket holder, all divisions, all qualities of play. They have just ruined the view for hundreds, possibly more than a thousand people (I tried to do some arithmetic but the the 3D geometry defeated me, but using a series of iterative approximations I came to 1000+ affected and quite few hundred badly affected).
I cannot conceive what the club were thinking of when they allowed, ....when they allowed' that camera to be put in place.
The PL and TV companies will give way because what they are requesting is not feasible without ruining the ganme for so many inoccent parties. I honestly do not think the club have really understood what they have done. The fact they waited till that Thursday to write indicates they didn't want anyone to have a chance to come have a look in advance and they were just hoping we 'might not notice' on the day.
I have never seen so many angry people at Fulham, never!
Quote from: Joe McDonald on August 29, 2013, 09:46:46 AM
Shame on the club?
BS!
The club tried to come up with a raft of other options, that were all rejected by the Premier League, and their wish to sell their 'product' around the world. Like it or not, the game is global, with more international fans watching around the globe than actually attend games. This is where the money is made. This is where the money comes from to pay our players wages etc. As much as it pains me to say it, we can't have it all ways. We can't take all the riches the Premier League offers and yet still remain as if we are a lower league club.
Yes, shame on the club! It was the club who made the decision to email season ticket holders 2 days beforehand to tell them that they may now have a restricted view seat, instead of advising them before they bought the tickets. Both the PL and the club are very much in the wrong here.
Quote from: The Equalizer on August 29, 2013, 10:10:02 AM
Quote from: Joe McDonald on August 29, 2013, 09:46:46 AM
Shame on the club?
BS!
The club tried to come up with a raft of other options, that were all rejected by the Premier League, and their wish to sell their 'product' around the world. Like it or not, the game is global, with more international fans watching around the globe than actually attend games. This is where the money is made. This is where the money comes from to pay our players wages etc. As much as it pains me to say it, we can't have it all ways. We can't take all the riches the Premier League offers and yet still remain as if we are a lower league club.
Yes, shame on the club! It was the club who made the decision to email season ticket holders 2 days beforehand to tell them that they may now have a restricted view seat, instead of advising them before they bought the tickets. Both the PL and the club are very much in the wrong here.
It's clearly an issue that has been forced onto the club.
The club should now be seeking compensation from the Premier League, for those season ticket holders affected by the camera gantry
Perhaps the club truly had no choice, perhaps in a larger or newer stand the gantry could have been hung from the roof, out of sightlines. But, assuming it was already there or they knew where it was going, not to tell people until two days beforehand was cowardly and, possibly worse still, not to tell people before they bought their season tickets defies words.
I am sure the PL did not say insert the gantry in such a way as to spoil the game for so many hundreds of people and any reasonable discussion this would have been sorted. We shouldn't have had to wait for the first game to have the opportunity to view the monstrosity!
You can pontificate all you want about who's to blame. The fact remains that between them FFC and the PL are the only organisations capable of resolving the issue
We should try and block the camera view in protest. That camera provides about 10-20 seconds of coverage match. Pathetic.
Quote from: Jack Fulham on August 29, 2013, 11:12:22 AM
We should try and block the camera view in protest. That camera provides about 10-20 seconds of coverage match. Pathetic.
I was thinking balloons and get the guys in front of the post to raise them up as game kicks off.
Quote from: Jack Fulham on August 29, 2013, 11:12:22 AM
We should try and block the camera view in protest. That camera provides about 10-20 seconds of coverage match. Pathetic.
...direct action, balloons, placards any legal way to disrupt this operation!
miniature remote control cameras like they use in cricket are all that is needed, ye gods satellites in space can see our cars and houses then surely the technology already exists?
The club happily took the money from the season ticket holders BEFORE they advised - two days prior to the home game, that this was happening.
Yes it is a global market
Yes it is big business
Yes the huge amounts of money goes to paying the over-inflated wages - around 73% of it.
So let's cut out the middle man - i.e. the attending fans, just have cameras and piped crowd sounds and the likes of sky and BT will get all the money via subscriptions and further dictate with the complicit premier league to destroy the sport further to suit their own needs and favoured teams.
If you are happy for this I hope your armchairs are comfortable, I want no part in this vision, I was already undecided on renewing my ST for various reasons in favour of going back to attending grass roots football, spending £12 on a terrace and watching the sport I love being played the proper way without agents and TV companies dictating how teams should do things for the sake of their shareholders.
Apathy rules...
Quote from: LBNo11 on August 29, 2013, 11:31:14 AM
Quote from: Jack Fulham on August 29, 2013, 11:12:22 AM
We should try and block the camera view in protest. That camera provides about 10-20 seconds of coverage match. Pathetic.
...direct action, balloons, placards any legal way to disrupt this operation!
miniature remote control cameras like they use in cricket are all that is needed, ye gods satellites in space can see our cars and houses then surely the technology already exists?
The club happily took the money from the season ticket holders BEFORE they advised - two days prior to the home game, that this was happening.
Yes it is a global market
Yes it is big business
Yes the huge amounts of money goes to paying the over-inflated wages - around 73% of it.
So let's cut out the middle man - i.e. the attending fans, just have cameras and piped crowd sounds and the likes of sky and BT will get all the money via subscriptions and further dictate with the complicit premier league to destroy the sport further to suit their own needs and favoured teams.
If you are happy for this I hope your armchairs are comfortable, I want no part in this vision, I was already undecided on renewing my ST for various reasons in favour of going back to attending grass roots football, spending £12 on a terrace and watching the sport I love being played the proper way without agents and TV companies dictating how teams should do things for the sake of their shareholders.
Apathy rules...
I found this, it could do the job i think. Jesus even my £150 camera could do the job
http://www.libraprobroadcast.co.uk/proddetail.asp?prod=Panasonic-AK-HC1500G (http://www.libraprobroadcast.co.uk/proddetail.asp?prod=Panasonic-AK-HC1500G)
(http://i40.tinypic.com/2w6gnl1.jpg)
Quote from: MJG on August 29, 2013, 11:54:42 AM
Quote from: LBNo11 on August 29, 2013, 11:31:14 AM
Quote from: Jack Fulham on August 29, 2013, 11:12:22 AM
We should try and block the camera view in protest. That camera provides about 10-20 seconds of coverage match. Pathetic.
...direct action, balloons, placards any legal way to disrupt this operation!
miniature remote control cameras like they use in cricket are all that is needed, ye gods satellites in space can see our cars and houses then surely the technology already exists?
The club happily took the money from the season ticket holders BEFORE they advised - two days prior to the home game, that this was happening.
Yes it is a global market
Yes it is big business
Yes the huge amounts of money goes to paying the over-inflated wages - around 73% of it.
So let's cut out the middle man - i.e. the attending fans, just have cameras and piped crowd sounds and the likes of sky and BT will get all the money via subscriptions and further dictate with the complicit premier league to destroy the sport further to suit their own needs and favoured teams.
If you are happy for this I hope your armchairs are comfortable, I want no part in this vision, I was already undecided on renewing my ST for various reasons in favour of going back to attending grass roots football, spending £12 on a terrace and watching the sport I love being played the proper way without agents and TV companies dictating how teams should do things for the sake of their shareholders.
Apathy rules...
I found this, it could do the job i think. Jesus even my £150 camera could do the job
http://www.libraprobroadcast.co.uk/proddetail.asp?prod=Panasonic-AK-HC1500G (http://www.libraprobroadcast.co.uk/proddetail.asp?prod=Panasonic-AK-HC1500G)
Nice effort, but I think the purpose of this gantry is 3D filming.
Quote from: btings on August 28, 2013, 08:34:56 PM
I suspect this was a condition NBC attached to their massive bid to the league.
I think you'll find it had little to do with NBC who, like many other foreign TV broadcasters, purchased the rights to broadcast, but more to do with the Prem League itself.
Interesting article here.
Angry Fulham Fans Have View of Pitch Blocked By TV Camera (http://www.ftbpro.com/posts/ian.stewart.palmer/346363/angry-fulham-fans-have-view-of-pitch-blocked-by-tv-camera)
Fulham's Craven Cottage is a small stadium by Premier League standards and it's getting on in years too, but most fans get a good view of the game there. That wasn't the case on Saturday for the home opener against Arsenal as a new TV camera was placed in the main Johnny Haynes Stand and a lot of season-ticket holders had their view blocked by it even though they paid about £750 for a ticket.
The camera was placed in front of the press box and it's a new one which was installed due to the new requirements of the league's television deal. Some supporters said they received an email the night before the match to let them know the view could be obstructed. This of course, didn't make them very happy.
A long-time season ticket holder named Andrew Stanley told the local press, "It's totally intrusive, not just for people behind the gantry, but for people around it. Some people won't be able to see the goals. The point is to watch the game and it is going to take the centre of the pitch out. It needs to be in a better position. I understand that will be difficult, but it's not acceptable."
Another supporter, Barry Hurley, said the club told him the camera was set up there so it could get shots of people in the dugout, which he doesn't feel is very important. He said the club offered to move him to the front of the stand for the match against Arsenal, but declined because it was pouring rain.
The clubs and Premier League get together to determine where the cameras should be placed, but it's tough at a ground like Fulham's. A spokesman from the league said there are new rules this season concerning the number of cameras used and their positions and he's hoping Fulham can find a solution.
The club stated, "To adhere to the broadcast regulations imposed by the Premier League we had to find a credible solution for a camera position that was a requirement. We understand it may have caused some issues for supporters and we will look to deal with those individuals to find a solution."
Hopefully this can be done before the next home match.
ALSO
Fulham fans unhappy with view (http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/news/1165201/fulham-fans-unhappy-with-view)
Frustrated Fulham supporters expressed their anger at the first home game of the season after a new television camera position restricted views in the main Johnny Haynes Stand.
The camera, required as part of the bumper new television deal, was installed in front of the press box and season ticket holders who pay in the region of £750 ($1,293) for their seats.
Fans received an email on the eve of the first home Premier League game of the season, against Arsenal, informing that some seats would have a restricted view, but the reality was described as unacceptable by supporters.
Andrew Stanley, a season ticket holder for 35 years and a Fulham fan for 50 years, said: "It's totally intrusive, not just for people behind the gantry, but for people around it. Some people won't be able to see the goals.
"The point is to watch the game and it is going to take the centre of the pitch out.
"It needs to be in a better position. I understand that will be difficult, but it's not acceptable."
Barry Hurley, a Fulham fan for 54 years, added: "We sit here with all of our friends.
"I was told the reason was something to do with television and they needed to take pictures of those in the dugout, which doesn't seem to me to be of great importance."
Hurley was offered a move to the front of the stand, which, considering the torrential rain in London, did not appeal.
Camera positions are determined by the Premier League in collaboration with the clubs, but Craven Cottage, as an old stadium, presented particular challenges.
A Premier League spokesman told Press Association Sport: "We introduced new rules regarding the number and position of cameras.
"There are clearly always going to be issues at a ground like Craven Cottage; a fantastic old ground.
"It has limitations that the new owner (Shahid Khan) is trying to address."
A Fulham spokesperson told Press Association Sport: "To adhere to the broadcast regulations imposed by the Premier League we had to find a credible solution for a camera position that was a requirement.
"We understand it may have caused some issues for supporters and we will look to deal with those individuals to find a solution."
BT Sport broadcast the match. It released a statement which read: "BT doesn't decide where cameras are placed at Premier League football grounds, but we always try to minimise the impact of them for fans at the match.
"We're sorry if any fans at Craven Cottage are upset by the camera position, but hope that thousands of Fulham and Arsenal supporters, who couldn't make it to the match, enjoyed the game on BT Sport."
Quote from: The Equalizer on August 29, 2013, 12:25:45 PM
Quote from: MJG on August 29, 2013, 11:54:42 AM
Quote from: LBNo11 on August 29, 2013, 11:31:14 AM
Quote from: Jack Fulham on August 29, 2013, 11:12:22 AM
We should try and block the camera view in protest. That camera provides about 10-20 seconds of coverage match. Pathetic.
...direct action, balloons, placards any legal way to disrupt this operation!
miniature remote control cameras like they use in cricket are all that is needed, ye gods satellites in space can see our cars and houses then surely the technology already exists?
The club happily took the money from the season ticket holders BEFORE they advised - two days prior to the home game, that this was happening.
Yes it is a global market
Yes it is big business
Yes the huge amounts of money goes to paying the over-inflated wages - around 73% of it.
So let's cut out the middle man - i.e. the attending fans, just have cameras and piped crowd sounds and the likes of sky and BT will get all the money via subscriptions and further dictate with the complicit premier league to destroy the sport further to suit their own needs and favoured teams.
If you are happy for this I hope your armchairs are comfortable, I want no part in this vision, I was already undecided on renewing my ST for various reasons in favour of going back to attending grass roots football, spending £12 on a terrace and watching the sport I love being played the proper way without agents and TV companies dictating how teams should do things for the sake of their shareholders.
Apathy rules...
I found this, it could do the job i think. Jesus even my £150 camera could do the job
http://www.libraprobroadcast.co.uk/proddetail.asp?prod=Panasonic-AK-HC1500G (http://www.libraprobroadcast.co.uk/proddetail.asp?prod=Panasonic-AK-HC1500G)
Nice effort, but I think the purpose of this gantry is 3D filming.
The camera is just a reaction cam, it does not move from looking at the two benches. That's the purpose of it in the regulations. a camera with a clear line of sight at the benches.
Quote from: Logicalman on August 29, 2013, 12:27:15 PM
"We're sorry if any fans at Craven Cottage are upset by the camera position, but hope that thousands of Fulham and Arsenal supporters, who couldn't make it to the match, enjoyed the game on BT Sport."
This just infuriates me. They've taken something which has clearly upset a lot of supporters and turned it into good advertising for BT Sports!
:dft007: :dft007: :dft007:
A reaction cam - give me strength !
When do the up-the-players'-noses cams come in ?
Whoever the spokesmen/ powers-that-be/ decision makers are, and from whatever body, let them sit in any of the dozens/hundreds of seats affected and then make their assessments. The answer, no doubt, will be, "Let them eat cake".
All for a fixed camera on the dugout area ????? That cameraman must have had a thrilling time against Arsenal.
The football world's gone mad. :down_under:
Oh come we loved to see the close ups of Old red Nose masticating under a glowing bugle that Rudolph would be proud of :026:
Again the fans taken for granted. On the occasions I make it to the Cottage nowadays I usually sit in the Hammy End, however for one occasion I'd happily buy a ticket in the JH just to rip the bleeder out, quickly followed by the Jackson statue and happily see them both float up the river :026:
Quote from: KCat on August 28, 2013, 10:40:29 PM
Quote from: filham on August 28, 2013, 10:02:32 PM
Surely , as a minimum, the club should immediately offer alternative seats with unrestricted views to those affected. Have they not done this?
People have sat in the same seats for years and years in some of the most expensive seats in the house. It, to a greater or lesser extent has ruined the view for about three hundred season ticket holders. In the back of F block and G , some of those fan have sat there for years and years they have paid a premium price, because they want to watch the game from the half way line ................... moving is not an option. I would not like to suggest to them that they should move, frankly it is outrageous.
This is 2013 why do they need a man to sit in a cherry picker looking at a static camera ????
I would be very surprised if the people,badly effected, would accept financial compensation ...................... I could be wrong.
Totally agree. I have sat in F block, right on the half way line, for many years in fact seasons when you could sit there with your legs over the backs and your feet on the seat in front because the crowd was so sparse. I do not want to move just for a manned camerato be pointing at the dug out for 90 minutes(The cameraman looked totally bored the whole time) just in case they catch a manager having a rant at a referees decision. On MOTD they showed a total of 4 seconds of the dugout.
All the good seats in the ground are now taken, what could they offer me to compare to what a I have already got.
I would consider a seat next to Mr Khan but he's not on the half way line he's slightly to the left!
Quote from: Vinnieffc on August 29, 2013, 02:36:29 PM
Again the fans taken for granted. On the occasions I make it to the Cottage nowadays I usually sit in the Hammy End, however for one occasion I'd happily buy a ticket in the JH just to rip the bleeder out, quickly followed by the Jackson statue and happily see them both float up the river :026:
Assuming the tide is coming in.
Perhaps they should have moved the dugouts to be convenient for where the existing cameras are...
Here in the benighted former colonies, we have using remotely controlled cameras about the size of a decent hotdog at televised sporting events for ... well at least one decade if not two. If the camera exists purely to get "reaction" shots -- and there is no accompanying audio -- then it can be hung just below the ceiling with no possible weather damage or obstruction. This is so dammed simple to do unobtrusively, Sarah Palin could have figured it out in less than a month.
You guys are being well and truly hosed. I wonder how many other clubs are similarly rogered.
Pretty much the point I've made to FFC and the PL in emails, Don. The stupid thing is that we already use remotely operated cameras at football. In fact, it's mandatory to have them behind the goals - and that is also a PL ruling.
On the other clubs point, there was a good article in the Telegraph the other day: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/10266971/Premier-League-fans-have-been-put-out-of-the-picture-by-3D-cameras.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/10266971/Premier-League-fans-have-been-put-out-of-the-picture-by-3D-cameras.html)
The filth have lost 218 seats for the camera there, well the bigger grounds can afford it when they cannot sell out each match, the way this has been handled just shows the contempt the clubs have for the fans, I was told when I worked at Wimbledon tennis ground by a corporate manager that they would make more money if they didn't have to let fans in to watch games, is that the way football wants to go? seems like it
"Sarah Palin could have figured it out in less than a month".
Priceless!
...with thanks to The Doctor for the link, it certainly warrants replication here:-
By Henry Winter6:45AM BST 27 Aug 2013
"The joy of such enthusiastically delivered news might be lost on some of those fans actually present. Sixty season ticketholders have been moved from their favoured habitat.
This new £3 billion Premier League television deal comes at a cost for the match goer. Caring clubs are seeking to accommodate them in other parts of the stadium but fans are creatures of habit, wanting the same familiar routes, gangways, characters, seats, neighbours. It is like breaking up a good party, or even family.
Television grows ever more powerful and demanding. More games are being screened in more countries with more cameras, some of them of the bulky, space-commanding 3D variety. Fulham fans, one of the country's more sanguine breeds, angrily tweeted pictures of the raised camera obscuring the view of between 10-20 of them. Fulham being Fulham, a club invariably solicitous of their fans' welfare, are working hard to sort out the problem and minimise disruptions.
At the Emirates, approximately 30 seats have been removed for cameras, even eight in the directors' box. Arsenal say that "there will be more affected with restricted view, which will only become clear after our first live match [on Sunday against Spurs] – and we do have plans to offer discounts on these impacted seats".
Liverpool have moved groups of supporters. Chelsea have lost 218 seats due to the new media rules and also built a second television studio inside the Bridge.
Such are the demands of TV that a designated player is interviewed when stepping off the bus pre-match. A Premier League match-day manager now patrols backstage, looking after the foreign rights holders at every game.
Those peering round cameras or becoming accustomed to new vantage points can at least console themselves that their clubs will have more money to spend on players and facilities. When they get home, and review the game on television, checking on bits they have missed because of obscured views, the quality will be even more enhanced.
Yet there is an understandable frustration among fans. Even some clubs feel the new demands are excessive while others say they need the increased revenue at a time of Financial Fair Play and inflated wages. It was interesting to note a Fulham spokesperson refer to broadcast regulations "imposed" by the Premier League. Clubs take the money, loving Richard Scudamore's brilliance as a negotiator with broadcasters, but there are limits. They object to their fans being pushed around.
Broadcasters, meanwhile, insist they do not choose the location of cameras. It is down to the Premier League promising ever more access during negotiations (the cameras will be in dressing rooms within three years).
The introduction of the manager-cam, the bane of some Fulham fans' lives, reflects the Premier League's obsession with football as soap opera, with every star, on-field or dugout, being filmed closely.
So it is worth reminding Scudamore of his words about supporters on the eve of the season. The Premier League's chief executive was discussing various issues when mention was made of whether he would risk another shot at the 39th game, milking worldwide interest. This would enrage local fans but would be boxoffice gold.
"I do have a hierarchy,'' replied Scudamore of his view on supporters. "The attending fan is our most important fan. We want the stadium full. That's where the clubs are rooted in their community.''
But the supporter in Hong Kong, Melbourne, Miami and Johannesburg was clearly in the forefront of his mind. "Is there a way of making the experience better for the international fan?'' Scudamore reflected.
"Technology will probably do that for them. Huge screen TVs, super HD, immersion technology with people recreating that stadium experience digitally in their own environment. It's much easier to do that than haul teams around the world.''
So no 39th game but to make the show more appealing in Shanghai, a few obstructions have to be placed in the sightlines of the fan at the match.
Scudamore needs to remember his tenet that "the attending fan is our most important fan". One of the main reasons why broadcasters pay the Premier League piper so handsomely and get to call the match-day tunes is because their audiences are enthralled by the atmosphere.
Viewers watching the drama at Cardiff City Stadium tweeted their admiration of the noise, the passion of the fans as well as the extraordinary events on the pitch in the second half. Scudamore's organisation must never forget that "the attending fan'' helps make the spectacle even more special for the viewing fan.
Slightly arrogantly, the Premier League traditionally retreats behind its defence of high occupancy rates in grounds. Last season's 95.3 per cent was the highest yet. Even with ticket prices excessive at many clubs, and even in a recession, fans keep flocking to the best sporting show in town. But away followings have dipped and could decline further.
It is hard to remember a Premier League season when fans were faced with such long travels north, south, east and west; clubs from Newcastle United to Southampton, Norwich to Swansea. If away numbers continue to ebb, atmospheres will be affected.
The Football Supporters' Federation has a good campaign, 20sPlenty, calling for a maximum £20 on away tickets. Stoke City, under an enlightened chairman in Peter Coates, run free coaches to away games. Others should follow suit. Some supporters quietly accept the new cameras, the rising ticket prices. Others protest.
After a survey of fans, the Chelsea Supporters Trust want to open a dialogue with the board, having concluded "the current price of tickets to be a barrier to the involvement and enjoyment of following Chelsea on several different levels: particularly the ageing demographic of current support and the lack of atmosphere.
There is concern that the club is sacrificing longevity for short-term gain. With the emergence of fans brought up with watching matches on TV, attending games will become a one-off occasion rather than a habit. Additionally, supporters are reaching breaking point concerning the prices for many away games. Atmosphere at home continues to be a major concern for supporters.
These are sensible fans. So are the Fulham ones annoyed by the television invasion. Premier League please take note".
:plus one:
Pretty sure you could sue the club for derogation from grant. They try and exclude themselves from any loss or damage in their T&Cs but seems to me to be a material breach of contract. If you had of known about the installation prior to with reasonable notice then you presumably could have even put the club on notice and sought interim relief in the form of an injunction. I'd be right royally fired up if this affected my season ticket/view!
If someone has a seat close by, can they please unplug the camera every 10 minutes. That should help them get the message of what the fans think.
Sure this has been suggested. But might fans not organise themselves and visit as many BT Sports fans as they can and sit in front of the tv blocking the view from the armchair.
' Sorry if you are upset by my position but it's a better view than going to the ground now'
Although the camera is in front of the press box , they don't care as they have monitors to watch.
I have not read all the comments but I once had a problem which required a mob handed response. Set out some days and eveyone should call that number, ALL DAY LONG. Find some other numbers (the ticket office for example) and call them ALL DAY LONG. That will screw up ticket sales, get the message across by jamming the phone lines. If everyone makes say 10-20 calls that should do it.
At the same time, EMAIL the crap out of them. They will be busy boys (and girls).
It worked for me.
Couldn't agree more, Jarv. I've no problem with people sounding off on here (and other boards, and FB), but it'll be even more effective if you contact the club as well. They have to at least process your email/letter/phone call and that takes time. If enough folks do it, the point will be made that they need to do something to resolve the situation. Which, to be fair, the response I got indicated is happening.
Well worth letting the PL know of your displeasure as well: http://www.premierleague.com/content/premierleague/en-gb/contact-us.html (http://www.premierleague.com/content/premierleague/en-gb/contact-us.html)
The club have set a self-imposed deadline of the WBA game to try and resolve things. If progress by then is not satisfactory, then ramp up the protest with things like your "denial of service" suggestion. I had a vague thought last night about using the notepads the club gave us with our ST packs to register displeasure. If a few thousand drop those into the little ballot boxes at every game until a resolution is found then that should also take up time (someone in the marketing department has to sift through all those to find stuff to use for the website).
I have just seen the photo on Friday Fulham stuff. It is outrageous. Totally UNACCEPTABLE. Start the phone calls next week, everyone. I will even call from America.
...one of our members (thanks Jackie) kindly sent the e-mail that they received on Thursday, August the 2nd 2013 at 5: 40 PM - just 19 hours prior to the home game !!!
"Dear Supporter,
Ahead of our opening home match of the season, we're writing to advise of some changes to our broadcast set-up that may affect your seat in the Johnny Haynes Stand.
As you may be aware, the Premier League recently announced enhanced media guidelines that offer greater access to broadcasters, plus a wider range of TV camera positions.
These changes are mandatory at all Premier League stadia and we have worked hard to minimise any disruption to our fans. However, in order to meet specifications, in the past week we have been required to add a new camera platform towards the rear of Block FL.
This new position is permanent and will be used for the first time by broadcasters at our match on Saturday.
We hope not too many seats will be adversely affected, but if you do have any concerns following the Arsenal game, please contact us using the details listed below.
We will use your feedback to help keep future restrictions to a minimum and where necessary will put you in contact with our Ticket Office team, who can discuss seating options in more depth. Email: [email protected]
Telephone: 0843 208 1222 (option 4) Thanks for your continued support.
Fulham Football Club"
LB, the supporters afffected by it I presume will all call/email but I think that a bit of solidarity is required to support fellow supporters. As I just said, lots of us should call on the same day to voice our feelings about the treatment.
Which day is it then? Must be before the next home game.
Alternatively, all you folks near it. Take some eggs to the next home game. Ever seen what a raw egg does when it sticks to something? :005:
Quote from: jarv on August 30, 2013, 01:07:03 PM
LB, the supporters afffected by it I presume will all call/email but I think that a bit of solidarity is required to support fellow supporters. As I just said, lots of us should call on the same day to voice our feelings about the treatment.
Which day is it then? Must be before the next home game.
...I agree that we should support our fellow supporter jarv, however, we shouldn't target the ticket office as that will cause disruption for fellow fans also. There are other numbers that you can call to show disapproval though.
I'm amazed that so many seem apathetic to the plight of their fellow fans, but who would bleat like stuck pigs if such a thing was placed in front of them with no recourse for objection. For many in the stands - especially those who are season ticket holders - those seats are special places where they and possibly generations of their family has sat in the same place in their support for Fulham FC - and now Fulham FC show their support of those same fans by trying to hide the dirt under the carpet...
It is obvious that the club are lookin to keep the camera in place and relocating those affected. If I was affected, I would want to seek some legal advice, because, surely the club is in breach of contract with those affected.
You will find somewhere in the small small print that the club reserve the right to move you, change things without redress if you look hard enough,however there should be a plan of action as suggested on here but coordinated so it has maximum effect
...and I'm sure the premier league would relish feedback as they are the main reason for this situation, say a very long message with lots of copy and pasted articles expressing displeasure:-
http://www.premierleague.com/content/premierleague/en-gb/contact-us.html (http://www.premierleague.com/content/premierleague/en-gb/contact-us.html)
Or on their facebook page:- https://www.facebook.com/premierleague (https://www.facebook.com/premierleague)
Of course they don't display a telephone number...
Quote from: LBNo11 on August 30, 2013, 02:18:28 PM
Of course they don't display a telephone number...
Would you like one?
020 7864 9000
(from the PL Handbook 2013/14...http://www.premierleague.com/content/dam/premierleague/site-content/News/publications/handbooks/premier-league-handbook-2013-14.pdf (http://www.premierleague.com/content/dam/premierleague/site-content/News/publications/handbooks/premier-league-handbook-2013-14.pdf))
Quote from: jarv on August 30, 2013, 12:58:05 PM
I have just seen the photo on Friday Fulham stuff. It is outrageous. Totally UNACCEPTABLE. Start the phone calls next week, everyone. I will even call from America.
Just had a butcher's there myself, and just like you am totally appalled at the contempt that has been shown to the ST holders and others involved who in good faith parted with their cash.
Some other poster said that my saying "Shame on the club" was "BS".
Seeing that monstrosity...Shame on the club, shame on the PL, Shame on Sky etc. for their greed and indifference.
The only B******t here is when we are told that
Skymegacash improves sport for the true fan.
Quote from: LBNo11 on August 30, 2013, 12:59:48 PM
Telephone: 0843 208 1222 (option 4)
Oh goody, please call our revenue-generating number.
And it'll be a call router which will just place you on hold whilst you wait your turn.
Bugger that, call the switchboard and bother a person:
020 7384 4700Onwards, brothers!
:group hug:
...thanks for that Airfix.
(http://www.tootingpopularfront.com/citizensmith.jpg)
I already have that very same picture on my home PC. I was going to put it on my face book page but Mr B said i might look like DiCanio to the out side world you didn't know Wolfie
